Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

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10-07-2012, 07:05 PM
Caversham Green

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

that's my take on it....transfer the licence and the history .

Again...it's only one year's accounts.....which Sevco don't have.

According to Alex Thomson's blog though, (see Greeginger's link) the SFA have said:

Quote:

the…policy relates to applications for a new membership. In this case, Rangers Newco will be applying for the transfer of an existing membership held with the Oldco.Rangers Oldco submitted the necessary financial information for 2009 and 2010. It did not submit for the year 2011, which resulted in the Judicial Panel sanctioning the club a total of £160,000 for various breaches of its Articles of Association, and also imposing a transfer embargo which has been subsequently set aside after the Court of Session ruling by Lord Glennie.

Which sound to me a lot like some rewritten history.
10-07-2012, 07:06 PM
Brando7

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/07...6908-23906797/

If this anything to go by BDO will have their hands full sorting Rangers mess out, six years to sort out the Farepak collapse
10-07-2012, 07:47 PM
jonty

I thought the spl clubs voted not to transfer the membership from oldco to newco - which is why newco couldn't play on spl??
10-07-2012, 07:52 PM
StevieC

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonty

I thought the spl clubs voted not to transfer the membership from oldco to newco - which is why newco couldn't play on spl??

They refused to transfer the SPL share, meaning they got turfed out the SPL.

SFA membership is required to get into the SFL/SPL.

I'm guessing that a straight transfer of SFA membership suits both parties as it gives the SFA a bit of control over Sevco with regards to ongoing investigations and disciplinary matters. It also gives Sevco the "green" light to get into the SFL .. if allowed. :wink:
10-07-2012, 07:57 PM
SurferRosa

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonty

I thought the spl clubs voted not to transfer the membership from oldco to newco - which is why newco couldn't play on spl??

I think that was the OldCos SPL share they voted on.....not SFA membership...
10-07-2012, 08:07 PM
jonty

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossHibs

I think that was the OldCos SPL share they voted on.....not SFA membership...

:aok:

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieC

They refused to transfer the SPL share, meaning they got turfed out the SPL.

SFA membership is required to get into the SFL/SPL.

I'm guessing that a straight transfer of SFA membership suits both parties as it gives the SFA a bit of control over Sevco with regards to ongoing investigations and disciplinary matters. It also gives Sevco the "green" light to get into the SFL .. if allowed. :wink:

So they've got round the sfa application criteria by transferring to a company with zero accounts. Handy.
10-07-2012, 08:10 PM
Brando7

Berwick Rangers Board tonight agreed unanimously that should the new Rangers FC be admitted to the SFL for the new season, that they would support a move directly into SFL Division Three. The Club has also taken on board the feelings of their Supporters Club, Supporters Trust and the countless individual fans who have contacted them directly. There will be no further statement from the club on this matter. :aok:

http://www.berwickrangersfc.co.uk/f-news/news.html
10-07-2012, 08:35 PM
The Harp Awakes

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngyosh

http://www.clydefc.co.uk/news/2012/07/10/4139/

Clyde FC's latest statement picking holes in Friday's proposal, and laying it out in plain English for all to see. :wink:

Am I reading this correctly that under resolution 2 if the majority of SFL clubs vote for newco to go into Division 3 then this could be trumped by the SFL Board reaching agreement with the SPL/SFA to place newco into Division 1. In other words, the SFL clubs effectively have no ultimate say unless they vote no to resolution 2?

If so, then the vote is rigged and its a stitch up. Absolutely outrageous:confused:
10-07-2012, 08:52 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes

Am I reading this correctly that under resolution 2 if the majority of SFL clubs vote for newco to go into Division 3 then this could be trumped by the SFL Board reaching agreement with the SPL/SFA to place newco into Division 1. In other words, the SFL clubs effectively have no ultimate say unless they vte no to resolution 2?

If so, then the vote is rigged and its a stitch up. Absolutely outrageous:confused:

That's not my reading of it. If they vote No to Resolution 2, then there is no negotiation. Sevco are in D3.

However, it would all be so much simpler if they voted No to Resolution 1. :greengrin
10-07-2012, 08:54 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caversham Green

According to Alex Thomson's blog though, (see Greeginger's link) the SFA have said:

Which sound to me a lot like some rewritten history.

So, if they haven't submitted for 2011, does that mean they are in breach of the regulations? I do hope so.
10-07-2012, 09:02 PM
John_the_angus_hibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

"I’ve heard comments from clubs like Cowdenbeath, Peterhead insisting they must start from scratch in the Third – who are these people and how are they qualified to make a decision that will affect clubs 10 times their size?"

So what qualifications did David Murray have to run a football club into the ground......what qualifications did Craig Whyte have to run a derelict club even further into shame and disgrace and who says that the jokers now owning Rangers are any more qualified to do the job. The guys on the boards of these smaller clubs are successful business men and are only making the decisions that those further up the football ladder (i.e Donkey Doncaster and Regan) are too afraid to make themselves.

What a complete pr*ck Burley is and should be made to apologise for that shameful drivel

They know how to run football clubs properly. And I would say its more bloody difficult at SFL level where ever penny has to be accounted.
10-07-2012, 09:11 PM
Caversham Green

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

So, if they haven't submitted for 2011, does that mean they are in breach of the regulations? I do hope so.

Well yes, but they've already been punished for that apparently - £160k fine that hasn't been paid and a signing embargo that was overturned.

Surely they've been punished enough.
10-07-2012, 09:13 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caversham Green

Well yes, but they've already been punished for that apparently - £160k fine that hasn't been paid and a signing embargo that was overturned.

Surely they've been punished enough.

Agreed... but don't call me Shirley.
10-07-2012, 09:21 PM
s.a.m

Stenhousemuir manager, Davie Irons, has steppped down, citing 'personal reasons'.:hmmm:
10-07-2012, 09:26 PM
Caversham Green

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Agreed... but don't call me Shirley.

Oops, sorry.

Seriously though Janice, does the SFA comment not sound like a hefty fudge to you? I don't recall failure to submit accounts being one of the charges and in any case the sentence hasn't been served and it doesn't look like it will be.

And what is it that can't be transferred from one legal entity to another? I thought it was SFA memership, but I've rather lost track a bit.
10-07-2012, 09:31 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caversham Green

Oops, sorry.

Seriously though Janice, does the SFA comment not sound like a hefty fudge to you? I don't recall failure to submit accounts being one of the charges and in any case the sentence hasn't been served and it doesn't look like it will be.

And what is it that can't be transferred from one legal entity to another? I thought it was SFA memership, but I've rather lost track a bit.

Actually, I had misread the quote. I'm with you in that I can't remember the accounts being an issue. However, as has been demonstrated, Regan has a penchant for saying one thing one day and another the next.

As for the last bit.... blowedifano.
10-07-2012, 09:38 PM
theonlywayisup

Prediction Time: How will the SFL clubs vote on Friday 13th

I have done a wee review of the various SFL club websites. It looks like 2 say YES with nine saying NO. There are a few sitting on the fence, with a few "no comments". The STV website say it is 14 NO - 2 YES, but I have yet to see Yes comments from Cowdenbeath, Partick Thistle, Ayr, East Fife & Stirling Albion. I think Hamilton will say NO, but STV think they are undecided. http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottis...-on-the-issue/

ADMINS - it would be good to keep this a thread on its own, rather than merge into the 'other' Rangers/Newco thread.

Cowdenbeath - "After a difficult week and a difficult decision for us all, Cowdenbeath FC are looking to their own fans and any other fans to show their financial support to us." Does that mean they will vote NO STV seem to think so!!

Dumbarton - "After hearing arguments on both sides, a clear majority of those voting (55 to 28) reluctantly felt that admitting the Newco into the First Division would be the better option for Scottish football and smaller clubs as a whole – though no-one was happy with the situation other clubs have been put in." YES

Dundee - Not Eligible to Vote

Dunfermline - "I can now confirm for the avoidance of any doubt that our position has not changed following yesterday's meeting and this is, we will continue to vote NO to "Newco" being parachuted into SFL1" NO

Falkirk - "We believe that introducing Rangers to the First Division as proposed throws away any chance of introducing real change to our game…..we cannot therefor support the current proposal put forward by the SPL" NO

Hamilton - "As you are aware the proposal being favoured by the governing bodies is that Rangers Newco are parachuted into the Irn Bru SFL Division 1, contrary to Scottish Football League rules. If our Governing bodies ever get round to tabling any firm proposal to vote on it is unlikely in our opinion that this proposal, in isolation, would be acceptable to the members." Likely NO

Livingston - Not Known

Morton - "Under the current SFL rules, any Club making an application for membership should be admitted to the 3rd Division. I personally see no reason to make any exception to that at this time and would therefore vote accordingly." NO

Partick Thistle - Not Known but STV say NO

Raith Rovers - "Raith Rovers would like to take the opportunity to thank fans, both of the club and other teams across Scotland, who’ve taken the time to contact us regarding the recent developments within Scottish Football. A few Aberdeen fans have grouped together to sponsor players for next season. One group, Aberdeen Fans For Sporting Integrity, are sponsoring Roary Rover and will donate the shirt to a local charity at the end of the season. They’ve already raised so much money that they are supporting other clubs in a similar way." Likely to be NO

Airdrie Utd - Will abstain

Albion Rovers - Not Known

Alloa - "We would also like to assure our fans that we will not be bullied into a decision by any outside influences, but will act in the best interest of Alloa first and Scottish football second. Sporting integrity will of course weigh heavily in any decision we make." Sitting on the fence!

Arbroath - "The Board of Arbroath Football Club will be making no public comment at this stage on the current crisis in Scottish football." Not Known

Ayr - Not Known from Website but STV say NO

Brechin - Not Known

East Fife - Not Known but STV say NO

Forfar - Not Known

Queen of the South - "we ask the fans, in the meantime, to trust that we will make the best decision for Queen of the South FC." Not Known

Stenhousemuir -"For the reasons stated above, we would anticipate that the Rangers Newco would be entering at Div 1." YES

Annan Athletic - NO

Berwick Rangers - NO

Clyde - NO

East Stirling - Not Known

Elgin - Not Known

Montrose - Not Known

Peterhead - Not Known

Queens Park - Not Known

Stirling Albion - Not Known but STV say NO

Stranraer - "We hold the stance that it is our place to act in the best long term interests of Stranraer FC and for Scottish Football as a whole and see no reason to breach the integrity of the SFL by filling a vacancy at any level other than at the lowest tier. " NO
10-07-2012, 09:40 PM
rcarter1

Perhaps before voting the SFL should watch Chariots of Fire (which 'premiered' this evening).

Producer David Puttnam summed up the film in 5 words

"The power of saying NO"
10-07-2012, 09:51 PM
Harpandcastle

I would be 99% sure Livingston will vote no. They have already said they are watching closely after being demoted to the 3rd themselves and expect Rangers to be treated in the same manner.
10-07-2012, 09:54 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by theonlywayisup

I have done a wee review of the various SFL club websites. It looks like 2 say YES with nine saying NO. There are a few sitting on the fence, with a few "no comments". The STV website say it is 14 NO - 2 YES, but I have yet to see Yes comments from Cowdenbeath, Partick Thistle, Ayr, East Fife & Stirling Albion. I think Hamilton will say NO, but STV think they are undecided. http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottis...-on-the-issue/
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Presumably this is for Resolution 2.

Given that Clyde have already said they would vote No to Resolution 1, it would be good to know how clubs are going to vote on that.
10-07-2012, 09:58 PM
Bostonhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brando7

Berwick Rangers Board tonight agreed unanimously that should the new Rangers FC be admitted to the SFL for the new season, that they would support a move directly into SFL Division Three. The Club has also taken on board the feelings of their Supporters Club, Supporters Trust and the countless individual fans who have contacted them directly. There will be no further statement from the club on this matter. :aok:

http://www.berwickrangersfc.co.uk/f-news/news.html

You've got to admire the principles and straightforward no nonsense approach of the so called wee clubs to this affair, the ones I have read like Stenhousemuir, Berwick, Raith and Clyde put the likes of Regan and Doncaster, to name but a few to shame. It really is as simple as these clubs have chosen to make it - do what feels obviously right, listen to your own fans and trusts, guage the non hun public opinion then say and do the right thing - take Green, Doncaster and Regan along with the Kilmarnock reptile out the way and this really should be simple now.

Hopefuly the administrators and the tax man will finally get down to properly pursuing the actual value that remaons in the assett as well as there being a full and ongoing investigation into the criminality that may have arisen as the valuation of the assets and the transfer itself was made, as well as all the other conduct issues that must surely still be outstanding.
10-07-2012, 10:01 PM
theonlywayisup

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Presumably this is for Resolution 2.

Given that Clyde have already said they would vote No to Resolution 1, it would be good to know how clubs are going to vote on that.

Yes - the bit about them playing in the SFL1.
10-07-2012, 10:03 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by theonlywayisup

Yes - the bit about them playing in the SFL1.

Did you see anything about Resolution 1? Clyde made a good case for saying No to that.
10-07-2012, 10:07 PM
theonlywayisup

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Did you see anything about Resolution 1? Clyde made a good case for saying No to that.

Not that I recall. It was more about SFL1 or SFL3. Most are not happy with the difficult position they have been put in. Some clubs are not prepared to say anything public prior to the vote.
10-07-2012, 10:09 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by theonlywayisup

Not that I recall. It was more about SFL1 or SFL3. Most are not happy with the difficult position they have been put in. Some clubs are not prepared to say anything public prior to the vote.

Sounds to me that most will vote yes to Resolution 1, in the hope that they'll get a couple of decent pay days as Seb travels up through the Divisions.
10-07-2012, 10:18 PM
Lungo--Drom

Contrary to what a lot of us thought, FIFA will not be kicking the SFA's butt or Regan's for that matter:

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs...division-vote/

FIFA has basically given the Scottish authorities carte blanche to do what they want when they want. So it's not just in Scotland that the football authorities are corrupt. ****ers!
10-07-2012, 10:25 PM
Caversham Green

Quote:

Originally Posted by s.a.m

Stenhousemuir manager, Davie Irons, has steppped down, citing 'personal reasons'.:hmmm:

He was Gretna's manager when they went bust wasn't he?
10-07-2012, 10:26 PM
grunt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caversham Green

And what is it that can't be transferred from one legal entity to another? I thought it was SFA memership, but I've rather lost track a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

As for the last bit.... blowedifano.

Come on guys, get a grip! We're relying on you two to guide us through all this! Don't fall apart on us now.
10-07-2012, 10:27 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunt

Come on guys, get a grip! We're relying on you two to guide us through all this! Don't fall apart on us now.

Just call me Stewart, and call him Neil. :greengrin
10-07-2012, 10:37 PM
The Harp Awakes

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

That's not my reading of it. If they vote No to Resolution 2, then there is no negotiation. Sevco are in D3.

However, it would all be so much simpler if they voted No to Resolution 1. :greengrin

I don't follow how newco would end up in SFL 3 if the SFL clubs vote 'no' to resolution 2:confused:

Resolution 2 starts:

'(ii) That the Scottish Football League Members direct the Board of Management of The Scottish Football League (the “Board”) to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the Third Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13..............'

So a 'no' to resolution 2 means that SFL Clubs are effectively voting against newco going to SFL3. There is nothing in any of the resolutions stating what will happen to newco if the SFL Clubs vote yes to resolution 1 and no to resolution 2. If the SFL Board have the autonomy to put newco into any SFL Division they see fit (as has been reported elsewhere) then I don't see an automatic route to SFL Div 3 if there is a no vote to resolution 2.

Hopefully I'm missing something:confused:

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