Stubbs left us in the championship. We're still much worse now than then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2
Ross had a very poor run, yes. The vast majority of his time here was not like that, though.
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Stubbs left us in the championship. We're still much worse now than then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2
Ross had a very poor run, yes. The vast majority of his time here was not like that, though.
Again though, the vast majority of his time here wasn’t what he got sacked for. He got sacked for going on a run that even Maloney and Johnson haven’t went on and it was a run that showed no signs of getting better.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
The run started with 4 straight defeats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2
The run ended with 2 wins, 3 losses and a draw.
Did it show absolutely NO signs of getting better?
That's a run of 2 wins in 10. Maloney had a run of 1 win in 13 in the league. Johnson a run of 2 wins in 11. What are you talking about?
The bad runs those 2 had both included 2 drubbings Vs Hearts as well. Rosses had one of our best ever Hampden performances. They were much worse. It's not even close.
It was a run of 4 points in 9 league games with us falling down the league at a rate of knots. A run that Maloney and Johnson have never been as poor as. That’s what I’m talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
We had a good win in the cup, what was it preceeded by? 4 defeats in a row. What was it followed by? 4 points from 5 games, yet more pish where we’d slipped back into a similar run to what we’d been on, so yes, not really showing signs of getting any better, or at least not showing any signs of being anywhere near good enough.
You also talk about wins as if it’s the only way of gaining points, it’s not. Maloney never had a PPG in any run of games as bad as the 9 game league run that got Jack Ross sacked, neither has Johnson, again, that’s what I’m talking about. A clever attempt at hiding his poor run though by ignoring the draws the other managers got because jack ross didn’t manage any really, I’ll give you that. PPG is what matters. Not win percentages.
The run ended with a horrendous performance at Livi and a point from his final 3 games. Again, showing little signs of improvement.
I stuck by Ross during the majority of that run and didn’t want him to go. By the end of it, culminating in the livi defeat, I conceded that I couldn’t defend him any longer and it had become sackable form.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2
Whether in hindsight we’d have been better sticking with JR is another matter, but I really can’t blame the club for taking action at that point, cup final or no cup final.
It’s pretty much what put me off Michael Stewart, who I used to really like and respect as a pundit. Going on about how baffling it was (it can’t have been that baffling when almost all of us seen it coming) and seemingly having a bee in his bonnet about hibs ever since.
I think Hearts punting RN last week was far more baffling and contestable.
There needs to be a bit of context built into the poor run that led to Ross being sacked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2
There was a covid outbreak in the Hibs camp in the last 3 months of his tenure and the SPFL rammed a whole load of fixtures at us in a 4 week period. Yes, we lost a lot of games at this time but over the previous year Ross produced results. He was not backed properly in his last transfer window, hence having to play the likes of McGregor away in Rijeka.
In my opinion Ross got the bum's rush to early. Ron Gordon admitted this latterly.
Most Hibs fans I know have said that the appointments of Maloney & Johnson have not improved us.
Have Maloney and Johnson improved us? I’d agree they haven’t really, absolutely. Has it been downhill though as was suggested? The stats would suggest no, it’s been more of the same type of stuff that got JR sacked. He was sacked because we were utter garbage. Since he left we’ve continued with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibees1973
As for Ron Gordon admitting we sacked him too early, people (not necessarily you) love to hang on to that fact despite decrying everything else about the way the club has been run for years now because it suits their narrative. Without wanting to sound crass, when it comes to football matters Ron Gordon’s tenure seen us do little right. I’m not sure I’d put a lot of weight behind whether he thought Jack Ross’ sacking was right or not, much like I wouldn’t put much weight behind Ben Kensells opinion on it after seeing his other managerial appointments. Their football decisions have been on the whole very poor and their opinion on whether they sacked JR correctly or not matters not a jot when you see what they’ve thought about other football matters over the last 3 years.
Right enough, Maloney's string of 0-0 draws was excellent in the old ppg metric. Dreadful in reality and as I say, including 2 defeats to hearts. So did Johnson's. I'll take the one with the league cup semi win, thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2
Those guys will never lead a Scottish team to 2 cup finals and 3rd place. I don't especially want him back but Johnson and Maloney are hopeless in comparison.
Maloneys string of 0-0s was better in the PPG metric compared to the run Ross was on. That much is absolutely undeniable, they didn’t go on a run like the one that got Ross sacked so I’m not sure why you’re even trying to argue the fact. You can try and pretend draws don’t matter, but they’re a hell of a lot better than defeats. Nobody is trying to claim it was exciting. It wasn’t any worse than the dross Jack Ross was serving up by the end though.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Ross’ final games were also dreadful in reality, whether it was results or performances.
And again, Ross didn’t get sacked for getting us third place. He got sacked for taking us on a horror run, a horror run that two incompetent managers since haven’t even managed to match. Again, that alone tells its own story about how bad we were.
100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
We went nowhere with Maloney and going nowhere with Johnson.
Defeat on Saturday and Johnson has to be sacked.
However, we have more fundamental problems at the club and it's going to take a fair bit of time and money to get the dross out of the club.
They exceeded it in lack of wins and certainly in the manner of defeats. A few draws doesn't change that, but celebrate those if you wish. The Hampden win that Jack achieved at his worst, is leagues ahead of those 2 diddies at their best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2
Again, PPG is the metric that matters, not win %. And in terms of the manner of defeats, the defeats at the end of Jack Ross tenure, of which there were many in the run that got him sacked, were every bit as bad as the defeats we fell to under Maloney and LJ. Your suggestion that a better win % trumps a better PPG is simply stupid. The way a league table works will show you that. Look at the Premiership. Newcastle are above Man Utd with a lower win % over the season. Why? Because they have a better PPG.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Nobody is celebrating them, again, you’re making stuff up. Nobody is celebrating draws as you’re suggesting. Nobody is saying it was exciting under Maloney as you’re suggesting, you’re suggesting it to try and discredit the point because your win % patter is irrelevant compared to PPG which actually does matter.
The win against rangers was indeed better than anything maloney or Johnson have managed. That one result was an outlier in an absolutely horrendous run of results and performances though.
Frankly Hibs have been going no where for years, the Scottish Cup win papered over many cracks and gave a brief up lift.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibees1973
I didn't say win % trumps points per game. But actually winning matches is quite nice. Ross done a lot more of that than the other 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2
The runs were all awful, but at least Rosses was an anomaly in a great time here. By miles the best manager of the three.
Considering everything, I think Maloney's run was much worse. As boring as Hibs have ever been. Johnsons included two 3-0 derby defeats. That was abysmal.
What about the subsequent 2/3 years, which were among the best times I’ve had supporting Hibs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lago
Agree totally. Many good wins under Stubbs also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
Likewise. We had a manager who the minute we walked through the door commented about the soft side to the club and managed to change it for a couple of years. As we know it all turned sour for whatever reason and I’m not advocating for a return of Lennon but **** me it’s not that difficult to see where the major problem lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithTheHibby
Have to agree. After watching Hibs through 40 years of changes to managers/coaches/player squads it seems to me that throughout the club structure/game approach we are too soft, too nicey nicey. I don't advocate turning into Don Revie's bunch of thugs but our professionalism needs turning up by several notches. Why do so many teams below us in the table, and way behind us budget wise, come out on top so often? They mostly have lower calibre players, lower budgets and poorer training facilities. What they do have in common, generally, are managers who can get the best out of whoever their club can put into the squad. Some of them may have a lot of dross to work with but they get the best they can from them through preparation, coaching the basics, fitness, tactical awareness, knowing their roles, team spirit and fight/fight/fight for every point. None of this is rocket science but it is the starting point to which talent can be added when possible. Too many limp performances over recent years highlight what Lennon saw and began to change before he imploded.
I don’t think it was wrong to sack Ross, but the two failed appointments since make it a debate to be had, sadly. Ultimately if he’d been replaced by a more successful guy, we wouldn’t still be talking about him.
Says more about Maloney and Johnson than it does Jack, who hasn’t exactly set the heather alight since leaving us…
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottB
Funnily enough if you go back to the threads when Ross got sacked you’ll find folk who are desperately sticking up for him now and saying we shouldn’t have sacked him were saying that the sacking was fair enough at the time. A lot of revisionism going on that has quite clearly came off the back of the fact that Maloney and Johnson have done so poorly.
As you said, the issue hasn’t been letting go of Ross, it’s been not getting it right afterwards. That doesn’t make getting rid of Ross wrong, it makes the subsequent appointments wrong.
Davidson sacked by St Johnstone.
Another panic button pressed. Hope this works in our favour on SaturdayQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesHFC
Steve McLean as interim manager.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
Another team that sack their Manager in an attempt to lift the feel good factor to beat us 😂
McLean in as caretaker. Play with the same character as yesterday and we should come out with a win 🤞Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
That guy should be unsackable after what he won for themQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesHFC
I’m not sure a caretaker is what a team in free fall need, particularly one who’s never managed beforeQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesHFC
Barry Robson?Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
Tommy Wright or Chewbacca ?
Robbie Neilson? 😂