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Naw, but like you said elsewhere you will just have to go and watch Partick Thistle with your dad. The rest of us will just have to get on with it, like we always have.Quote:
Originally Posted by joe breezy
You might be missed but we'll get over it.
See ya.
Is being in Brazil a good enough reason?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green Goblin
As far as I was aware the SPL Board represent the SPL member clubs so is it correct to assume any negotiated deal to allow Sevco into the SFL division 1 (as per statement below) would mean that the SPL clubs individually had agreed to the deal.
"The notice of the special general meeting proposes "that Rangers FC shall play in the Third Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13 unless the board shall have to its satisfaction negotiated and reached agreement with The Scottish Premier League and The Scottish Football Association on a series of measures which the board shall consider to be in the best interests of the game... "
If this is the case then why did the 10 SPL clubs bother voting against Sevco in the first place, did they think that the supporters would merely accept a drop of 1 division as an acceptable punishment?.
Why are the SPL Board even involved in these discussions, Sevco are not an SPL club, and why are the SPL having to 'compensate' the SFL if they decide to allow a new club into their leagues. Does this mean that every new club triggers a new set of 'compensation' to the SFL?.
Great post, Bovril. :aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
As I understand it, the SPL pay a "settlement fee" as part of the deal which allowed them to leave the SFL in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibees07
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Originally Posted by ScottB
Sorry to state the obvious mate ... you cant resuscitate something that is dead.
As for the rest of that paragraph I presume what you mean is we wont get the new fresh start you think we need.
Things which appear be on the table now as a result of what has happened:
A fair voting system in the SPL which will prevent any two clubs, or even one club, ever being able to dictate to the others again.
A much more equitable sharing out of the money coming into the game, from TV or elsewhere.
A future change to the league systems, which may well lead to a bigger SPL and play offs for promotion and relegation.
A much needed change of mindset in the game which will lead every club to the realisation that putting all of your eggs into one basket is the stupidest way to run a business you can get, and hopefully will lead to a lot of clubs deciding that the way forward is to rip themselves away from the old firm teat.
At the start of last season all of that stuff was a pipe dream ... the fact that its taken this mess to bring it about is unfortunate, but to pass up the opportunities it has presented would just be a bloody waste of a golden chance.
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Originally Posted by Hamilton Handling
That's a crappy, pathetic comment and you know it. You have no idea at all of the extent to which I have supported Hibs during my life, or how I continue to do so, even from Brazil. I could lower myself to justify it to you, but there's plenty of folks on here who know and I am going to choose to show a bit more grace than you have done and refrain from making you look like a complete idiot.
Or any other era since the early seventies GG but i am sure someone will be along to tell us this is as bad as it's been. I have no problem if folk dont want to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green Goblin
But it is now at the point where the same folk keep finding different reasons not to go.
What is it with folk like you and others that makes you think people need a reason no tae go tae the fitba? They dinnae! They just dinnae have tae go, it isnae compulsory and they dinnae have tae justify themselves tae the uber fans on here. I've been going tae ER for 34 years, if I wanted tae stop going I would have done it long before now. I've never let my dislike of Petrie stop me going tae the ER and supporting Hibs, I've been going tae ER road longer than he's been involved with Hibs. I've never let my disdain for the people that run Scottish fitba stop me going tae ER. With this though they have stepped way over the line of what I am prepared tae put up with. If this team end up in the 1st division football in this country will cease tae be a sport as far as I'm concerned and will be shown up for what it is, a corrupt money making racket and I'll no be puting my money in tae anything that lines the pockets of twisted *******s like regan and doncaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Falcon
Getting back to sevco, they could be in big trouble regardless of whatever league they manage to get into:
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...ack/#more-1460
More murky than a July day in Edinburgh :greengrin
What part of "Sporting integrity is more important than money" do these administrators not understand? Are they trying to kill the game
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Originally Posted by The Falcon
My point was that I think there are people who genuinely have a problem with the apparent corruption which has been very much evident during this whole sorry saga, and that their choice not to go to the football because of that may therefore be considered a valid one, as opposed to more flimsy, transient reasons. I was neither supporting or criticising that decision, just stating that it was a genuine, but hard choice for some folks.
The other people you mention in your second sentence, well...I agree with you. But that's a different thing entirely.
Yes you can. The person heart has stopped, they are technically dead, it may be restarted. Our game is dead. Either we start again, or try and breathe life into the current one, and hope it isn't too 'brain damaged' to function. I have my doubts.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
Why will any of those things happen then?
This would appear to all be happening because the SPL are convinced they can only go one season without Rangers and their money, and are willing to offer trinkets to the SFL to make it happen. With that in mind, why would they then try and go about things that will weaken Rangers, clearly that doesn't make 'business sense' to our clubs. They aren't going to change things, they aren't going to go to a bigger league, they are going to sit there and patiently wait a season for the circus to begin again.
As others have pointed out, the SPL Board can't run around doing things without the clubs say so, it IS the clubs. Perhaps I'm being overly cynical, but a lovely 16 / 18 team league with fair shares of income and sporting integrity intact is, if anything, further away than ever as far as I'm concerned. At most the SFL will get their play off place into the SPL, then at some point the leagues will get a name change, the suits will rearrange their deck chairs and the Titanic will carry on towards the iceberg...
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Originally Posted by The Falcon
What's this, Dan ? You don't like Petrie ? You kept that one quiet.:wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
It was more of a question than a comment (hence the ?) and an answer would have been more appropraite than you throwing your weight about. Equally, you know nothing of me, however, it would seem my committment is clear and yours less so given the geography and your apparent position on the current topic. Imagine the downfall of Rangers being the ruin of Hibs? Even from your detached position that must seem farcical?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green Goblin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
If I felt that strongly I wouldnt go either. But I dont believe they will end up in the first division. It will be the third and even then they are getting off lightly.
As far as I am aware they (rangers) have so far got nothing they wanted.
It's because people are willing to "just get on with it", that things will never change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilton Handling
People get so used to being shafted that they eventually just accept it as the natural order of things.
It's very sad.
Its kinda hard to retain any enthusiasm for Scottish football, when those seem determined to give their supporters a metaphorical kick in the testicles
It just seem to be true that the powers that be are totally unable and unwilling to grasp the simple nature of most ordinary supporters objections to their endless contortions to ensure Rangers are not forced to, as any other club in a similar position would surely have to do, i.e. to begin their existence in the bottom tier of Scottish professional football.
Despise, the many obfuscations put forward in the media the reason for this is that quite simply that it is not fair.
In any sport, even n one so sullied by rank commercialism it is vital, in order to retain the support of the paying masses that the rules are straightforwardly devised and applied without fear or favour.
If this concept which is so central to the success of any professional sport cannot be grasped by those in charge then that sport will rightly die.
This stripped bare of all the smoke and mirrors is the stark choice facing every chairman of a Scottish club, for the vast majority of their so-called customer have made theirs.
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Originally Posted by alexedwards
OK, I revert back to my previous view that the SFL clubs are being given NO specific vote on Friday to vote NewHun directly into the 3rd Division. This is an all or nothing vote of allowing NewHun to take up 'associate' membership and leave it to the SFL board as to what division they will be playing in.
If the clubs say NO, there would have to be yet another proposal put to them, if at all, that states they are voting NewHun into the 3rd division. It"s obvious by the proposal details that the SFL board are doing their utmost to avoid giving the clubs such an option, so I'd consider it highly unlikely that they'll come up with any such straightforward proposal in the near future. I'd imagine they"ll just keep coming up with similar proposals whereby the board are the ones that decide on which division NewHun are put in.
Principles are one thing. Turning your back on your club when they are in the doo-doo is another.Quote:
Originally Posted by wee_hibee
They aren't "Rangers". I wish people would stop referring to them as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Falcon
"Sevco 5088" are a "new company", that need to earn their right to play in the league.
They are NOT Rangers.
and if that 'new club' are in the 3rd division I will be at ER next season. Hopefully there will be enough of those at the lower leagues will be capable of doing the right thing because those at the top have proven they clearly are not.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Falcon
After that I'd like tae see Scottish fitba rid itself of these people (parasites) who have little interest in the good of the game (starting with regan and dungcaster) and only what they can make out of it.
I think if the new club is admitted into the 1st division next season then a lot of people will be of the opinion that Scottish football is not worth supporting as it is corrupt and rotten to the core.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilton Handling
They will ask, what will be the point in going along to support a club that tries to operate in the correct way and has a limited spending budget as a result and has had years of cost cutting, when there's a club, which has overspent for years, cheated their way to success and bought players they could not afford, that has gone into liquidation, reformed as a new company, gone straight into the second highest division and within a season are more than likely going to be beating us again on a regular basis and challenging for titles again that we can only dream of.
In terms of boycotting any future matches in Scotland, it's not a view that I necessarily share although it is one that I can seriously sympathise with and completely understand.
As i said in my reply to Dan Rangers have, to date at least, been knocked back at every turn. I think the "apparent corruption" is because some clubs, Kilmarnock being the most vocal, are hugely concerned as Rangers provide a large chunk of their income and all the scare stories put out by Traynor and his cohorts are only adding fuel to their already raging concerns. I do not believe that Hibernian FC are any part of this (nor are Aberdeen or Hearts for that matter) but I can see how some of the other clubs are concerned and that is how this preposterous document was born. I do not believe it will survive.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green Goblin
I dont really see the point about getting so excited about something that, in all probability, is unlikely happen.
Turning your back on the club is one thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilton Handling
Turning your back on the club because they play in a league where sporting integrity is non-existant and corruption is blatantly obvious for all to see, is something completely different.
Until Hibs and other clubs make a stance and make it clear that they won't participate in this farce league until things change, I won't be back to Scottish Football either.
Guess i'll "see ya" then.
Said it since this started -
Sevco into Division 3 I will be down to Easter Road for a season ticket
Sevco 'put' into Division 1 I won't be back for good.
Total corruption involved here for the good of one Newco
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Originally Posted by Hamilton Handling
It totally seemed like a heavily sarcastic comment and a massive dig. A smiley always helps avoid misunderstandings :wink: A "?" is just what I already expect to see at the end of a question and wasn't really a clue.
One thing that many overseas fans find themselves doing, is religiously staying up to date on everything that goes on back home. Distance only intensifies your need to stay on top of what's going on.
The issue of not going back to watch SPL football is a serious and emotive one facing many Scottish football fans, if Sevco are let off with a div 1 sanction. My answer to this is really what I replied to Falcon above. I wrote "My point was that I think there are people who genuinely have a problem with the apparent corruption which has been very much evident during this whole sorry saga, and that their choice not to go to the football because of that may therefore be considered a valid one, as opposed to more flimsy, transient reasons. I was neither supporting or criticising that decision, just stating that it was a genuine, but hard choice for some folks."
A quick comment on the "committment" point you made; there are many ways in which overseas supporters support the club: subscribing to Hibs TV International, arranging your trips back home to allow for the biggest number of trips to see games at ER, buying merchandise online, getting up at 3am to listen to/watch games online, encouraging others to support the club, getting together to watch games and so on.
Many overseas fans, myself included, travelled many thousands of miles and spent a lot of money to come back for the Cup Final in May - less a glory hunt and more of a "need to be there in our lifetime" response to the deep-rooted support of the club that only often intensifies when you are far from home. In most cases, and it certainly was in mine, people couldn't really afford to do it, but found a way. Fans far away often show a very serious committment to the club, even though they can't buy a season ticket - and some folks even do that, even though they can't go! Overseas fans keep their finger on the pulse and do everything they can to play their part. :aok:
I have every confidence in the SFL clubs to vote so that Sevco will only be offered a place in SFL3. Whether they are in a position to accept the offer is another matter.
Re-structuring will come in season 2013-2014 and I think we'll see the back of Donkey and Regan. The fans and the diddy clubs have flexed their muscles and will do so again.
The bit in bold has yet to be determined, certainly as far as Petrie or Hibs' culpability is concerned, but you hold your principles dear.Quote:
Originally Posted by wee_hibee
Petrie and the club have stuck to the integrity line throughout, they voted No to the Newco.
What are the clubs thoughts on all this? The line 'it's up to other bodies to decide their fate' is clearly nonsense now, if the SPL Board is involved, then Hibs are involved as part of the SPL.
If Hibs are against these 'negotiations' and haven't been part of this, then they better come out and say so pronto. Silence will do us no favours, certainly if the Board think we will just accept this corrupt attempt to try and appear 'all about the integrity' while working franticly behind the scenes to save Sevco.