Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

I agree with what you are saying about the wasted opportunity but do you definitely think they will just bounce up the ladder each year and be back in the SPL for the 2015/16 season? Reading some of the links to some of their forums that have been posted on here there seems to be a move from infighting that was going on last week to a growing depression and sense of the stark realities now arriving at Edmiston Drive. If Stewart Regan is to be believed they will abandon the terraces and start running amok with machetes and samurai swords looking for "taig *****", to quote one lovely fellow on one of their forums.

Back to the wasted opportunity of a ground up reconstruction, who would be able to make a success of such a plan? Clearly not the SFA or the SPL and the SFL couldn't do it alone. I admit aforehand that I might be daydreaming in a Stalinist/totalitarian frame of mind but surely only government level intervention could give a right good slap to the heid of the SPL/SFL/SFA and force through a ground upwards total restructuring of the professional game?

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Starting in SFL3 is the best option for Rangers. They will emerge from that even stronger and Scottish Football will have gained nothing in the meantime. What a sad waste of a golden opportunity for revolutionary reform that would have benefited our game in the long term.

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Far too many "pro" team in scotland imho. One league of 20. With regional play-offs to get into it every year. 2 out every year. 2 up every year. Scottish football needs to change, and needs to stop depending on the old firm for cash.

Am on my phone on a train and couldn't find the photo via the link. What was RP wearing? A green t-shirt with "**** The Huns" right across the chest? :faf:

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

Brilliant! :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by rcarter1

Crackin stuff! Its quite astonishing to see how undervalued Scottish football is if the figures presented are true. This is pretty concrete evidence that those responsible for representing the Scottish game have failed miserably.

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The real problem is the perception elsewhere in the UK that all the other teams in the SPL are mere cannon fodder for the Old Firm. Consequently, I'd imagine the BBC are only really interested in showing Old Firm derby highlights for the benefit of everyone else. It's such a shame - back in the 80s, there was genuine competition in Scotland, until Rangers changed everything by buying English international first division players. A league with relative parity is of far more interest to everyone else than a tiresome two-team procession.

Get rid of those 2 for people with more vision, all my opinion of course.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, if they can only come up with 3 million pounds for the rights to SPL football, including Celtic and their international following is really pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Lungo--Drom

Am on my phone on a train and couldn't find the photo via the link. What was RP wearing? A green t-shirt with "**** The Huns" right across the chest? :faf:

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I don't see any picture of Rod in that link.
:confused:

Ah.

Now I do...................


Very good.

What's happened with the double contracts investigation? Surely they still need to complete that? If old rangers are found guilty was the punishment not expulsion from the spl/sfa/sfa? If that's the case surely they have to wait for the outsome of that, decide the appropriate punishment and if that's expulsion then a newco couldn't replace them. Or am I completely off the mark?

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Originally Posted by oldbutdim

I don't see any picture of Rod in that link.
:confused:

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He's at the bottom of the stairway. :wink:

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

He's at the bottom of the stairway. :wink:

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Now I have a 'big screen' I see it. :aok:

Excellent.

:greengrin

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Originally Posted by ScottB

I don't see the issue to be honest.
To be fair I think there is a pretty big issue, in terms of deciding whether Scottish football is getting value for money.

The first article there, what do attendances matter, it's number of viewers that Sky / BBC are interested in.
Attendances are used in the article to indicate level of interest in that particular league. Agreed that this is not the be all and end all, but its a useful starting point to predict what TV revenues might be.

How much it pays it's pundits like Hansen to do 2 or 3 shows a week + tournaments, or Lineaker to host various sports shows are again largely irrelevant. In any case the stuff they present will be watched by many, many more people than ever tune into our stuff.

agreed

For the BBC and Sky, EPL football is a viewer winner. They pay top dollar to keep their access to the top ratings draw, they need to show it.

agreed

They show our game because they've gotten a decent price and feel like showing it. We have no position of strength to negotiate from, and that is reflected in the prices we get. It's a business, not a charity.

You are right that they have got a decent price. In fact they may have got a bargain basement steal. They will negotiate for as little as they can. However Scottish football may not have gotten a fair price, if the deals were not negotiated by strong, intelligent, knowledgeable and experienced people.

Besides, we need to be moving away from dependence on TV cash that will always screw our game up with daft kick off times and the like, not get out the begging bowl for more.

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This I totally agree with, however as a point of principle Scottish football should not undersell itself. We are a backwater of football compared to England, Spain etc. But do we compare so badly compared to Austria, Hungary, Sweden etc? Honestly, the Old Firm games have higher profile than what happens in these leagues and our leaders should have been able to secure us much more (which paradoxically could have left us even worse now).

To summarise: There is a strong and important case to be made from the figures presented that Scottish football could get more money they are currently receiving, but it requires people who are capable of realising that potential to negotiate it.

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Originally Posted by rcarter1

This I totally agree with, however as a point of principle Scottish football should not undersell itself. We are a backwater of football compared to England, Spain etc. But do we compare so badly compared to Austria, Hungary, Sweden etc? Honestly, the Old Firm games have higher profile than what happens in these leagues and our leaders should have been able to secure us much more (which paradoxically could have left us even worse now).

To summarise: There is a strong and important case to be made from the figures presented that Scottish football could get more money they are currently receiving, but it requires people who are capable of realising that potential to negotiate it.

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Perhaps, but it is all about market forces.

For the EPL, Sky know that if they ever failed to get the rights, they'd lose vast amounts of business overnight. They also know that there are other companies, the most recent time 3 others (BT, ESPN, Al Jazerra) in the running too. So they will bid the most they can to make sure they keep their prize. There is no other choice for them.

Our current TV deal was negotiated when the league basically had none (the BBC deal), the only two in the running (Sky and ESPN) joined forces. They had all the strength, to win the rights just meant offering more than the BBC deal had been. Whether it was less than the league is worth doesn't really matter, because nobody else wanted the rights.


Going forward, Sky may want to bid again, and I could see BT wanting a go to bolster their football offering in the same way ESPN did when they won EPL rights. If we can get those two into a bidding war, maybe we will get a good deal. If they join forces as Sky and ESPN did, then we will just have to take whatever they are willing to bid.

The prospect of Rangers retaining the titles and trophies they won whilst cheating, is making me feel physically sick.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Starting in SFL3 is the best option for Rangers. They will emerge from that even stronger and Scottish Football will have gained nothing in the meantime. What a sad waste of a golden opportunity for revolutionary reform that would have benefited our game in the long term.

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Can we no have a revolutionary reform with them in division 3? What's wrong with having them in division 3 and then having the reform with them still starting at the bottom of the new set up!

Sorry, daft idea, there'd be nae discussion and nae will for it from the authorities if it wisnae tae try and invent a fudge for them. You ken it and I ken it. The only reform they wanted was a 10 team league tae stack things even further in favour of the OF. New teams start at the bottom, that's the rules and if we cannae have change without bending or breaking those rules why bother? What happens if they find another way tae cheat and get caught again 10 years down the line, will we change the rules and reorganise again because they must win and be at the top at all costs? No for me!

Change because it's needed, yes, change tae accommodate the return of (in all but name) cheats, NO!

When the dust settles on the Rangers shambles, and some of the main actors are inevitably moved on, the time will come to re-think the Scottish football business model.

As it stands Scottish football is attempting to go toe-to-toe with English football for eyeballs, TV deals and commercial interest. This strategy has shown to have failed and has led us into a 20 year cycle of decline. If Scottish football is to thrive it must be prepared to re-consider every aspect of the business model and be prepared to adopt radical change.

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Originally Posted by oldbutdim

I don't see any picture of Rod in that link.
:confused:

Ah.

Now I do...................


Very good.

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took me ages not enough caffine yet :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by peterdouglas

I don't think the "newco for D1" proposals are fair but if clubs were to vote for them to be admitted to the first division on the condition that HEAVIER sanctions were to be enforced, would it not suit everyone? The SPL have already blurred the lines so why not something like a 20 point penalty regardless of what division they are in for the next 4 years?

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I'm starting to lose track here ..

Have they actually proposed any sanctions for Division 1 entry?

Would those sanctions be enforceable (legally/NewCo)?

I still feel that Div3 is the "right" route to take, but it's NOT a punishment it's a consequence of actions.
After reading your post I might consider a Div1 entry, but ONLY if the sanctions WERE a punishment and that they were severe enough that the only ones to gain would be the other teams.
It would also have to include a larger league and fairer distribution of money.

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Originally Posted by hibs0666

When the dust settles on the Rangers shambles, and some of the main actors are inevitably moved on, the time will come to re-think the Scottish football business model.

As it stands Scottish football is attempting to go toe-to-toe with English football for eyeballs, TV deals and commercial interest. This strategy has shown to have failed and has led us into a 20 year cycle of decline. If Scottish football is to thrive it must be prepared to re-consider every aspect of the business model and be prepared to adopt radical change.

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Where dae we find these people tae implement that, I wonder, the majority of people currently involved with Scottish fitba cannae see past the end of their ain nose.

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Originally Posted by hibs0666

When the dust settles on the Rangers shambles, and some of the main actors are inevitably moved on, the time will come to re-think the Scottish football business model.

As it stands Scottish football is attempting to go toe-to-toe with English football for eyeballs, TV deals and commercial interest. This strategy has shown to have failed and has led us into a 20 year cycle of decline. If Scottish football is to thrive it must be prepared to re-consider every aspect of the business model and be prepared to adopt radical change.

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:agree:

Yet you have Doncaster and Regan trying to re-float the Titanic, despite clear evidence that "new Rangers" will probably collapse within 12 months.

Scottish football should be trying to fill a niche. Switching to a summer season, when there are 3 months without EPL and naff all on Sky, is a no-brainer.

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Originally Posted by Desperate Dan

Where dae we find these people tae implement that, I wonder, the majority of people currently involved with Scottish fitba cannae see past the end of their ain nose.

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People are naturally resistant to change. If individuals act to block change then they need to be swapped out, simple as that. Doncaster and Regan have done a stout job of defending the existing failed business model and by dint have shown that they are absolutely the wrong people to drive the Scottish professional game forward from the situation that we are now in.

More enlightened leaders would have recognised the new reality enabled by social media and created a new vision for the SPL and Scottish football that put supporters at the very core. Sadly that has not happened and, when the Rangers situation is finally played out, we will be left with a bloody great void where a compelling vision and strategic plan should be.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

The prospect of Rangers retaining the titles and trophies they won whilst cheating, is making me feel physically sick.

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That can't happen, it would be illegal. :deal:










































On second thought...... :rolleyes:

I agree with all your points regarding market forces, and why the EPL is able to command the amount that they get.

Going forward, Sky may want to bid again, and I could see BT wanting a go to bolster their football offering in the same way ESPN did when they won EPL rights. If we can get those two into a bidding war, maybe we will get a good deal. If they join forces as Sky and ESPN did, then we will just have to take whatever they are willing to bid.[/QUOTE]

This sounds like the beginnings of a strategy. It would be of interest to research how and why countries of similar size to us (and the lack of the big reputations), could achieve the deals that they get. As a starting point, if Scottish football were to look into its own television package, we could then see how the likes of ESPN, Sky etc respond. If they shrug their shoulders and walk away, then fair enough they weren't that interested anyway.

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Originally Posted by Lungo--Drom

Am on my phone on a train and couldn't find the photo via the link. What was RP wearing? A green t-shirt with "**** The Huns" right across the chest? :faf:

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Attachment 8414

(click for bigger picture)

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Originally Posted by sadtom

Somebody please stop me clicking the links to rankgersmedia. Its hunbelievable.
Its depressing i feel like dissinfecting my eyes. What a *****ty little country we live in.
This is the sort of filth that is allowed on their main messageboard.
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/inde...ic=230429&st=0

I've heard folk talk about celtc and rankger fans as being as bad as each other. I'm sorry but that is utter garbage.
During this whole shambolic state of affairs i've looked on kerrydale street a few times to see any info or breaking stories and from what i can see the vast majority seem to be normal fitba fans and mostly sentient human beings. Yes i can find them smug, self righteous and bloody irritating at times but, my god, the barely literate, ignorant, vermin that inhabit the hun message boards are just disgusting. (I'm led to believe that swallow swallow is even worse - but as they 'hide' their views from the public i cant confirm).
If anyone thinks otherwise please find and post anything from kds that comes close to that sort of nasty, intolerant bile.
That whole stinking club are a magnet and a natural home to all sorts of prejudices and small minded bigots. They embody everything that is wrong with society.

If celtc are itching powder, then the huns are pure f****** poison.

Hurry up and die in the gutter you backward f****** weirdos.

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They perhaps should stop all this in Govan :greengrin


http://nepaliaashish.wordpress.com/2...-consequences/

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Originally Posted by wee_hibee

If the situations were reversed and Celtic were in Rangers position instead, do you think the behaviour of their fans would really differ that much?

It's no real shock that Celtic fans seem like the far "nicer" bunch right now. Their most hated club are going down the toilet and it would be the exact same for Rangers fans if the roles were reversed.

Rangers fans would seem like decent chaps if Celtic were heading into oblivion instead.

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I disagree entirely, whilst I have no particular love for Celtic or indeed their fans I think it is erroneus and simplistic to equate both clubs as two cheeks of the same arse.
1. The present situation has absolutely nothing to do with Celtic, or indeed any other club it is entirely caused by the actions of one club i.e. Rangers.
2. The level of sectarian hatred and bile that emanates from around Ibrox is frankly unacceptable in this day and age. I am frankly amazed, as someone who practise no religion that absolutely no comment has been uttered by the football authorities or anyone else about the requirements of any NewCo to be not merely non-sectarian but positivly anti-sectarian. The efforts made officialy by Rangers have effectively been a chimera, as the contents of their fans websites reveals. The police should be looking at these website and the hate they purvey as a matter of some urgency. Their is no analogous website that I am aware of linked to Celtic or their supporters.
In my over forty years of supporting Scottish football I have only ever encountered sectarian behaviour afrom three sets of supporters namely the Huns, the Hertz and ****dee.
This is not to give a clean bill of health to Celtic, their supporters arrogance and their predilictions of some of them for the Provisional IRA are not to my mind acceotable sportingaffiliations.

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Originally Posted by rcarter1

I agree with all your points regarding market forces, and why the EPL is able to command the amount that they get.

This sounds like the beginnings of a strategy. It would be of interest to research how and why countries of similar size to us (and the lack of the big reputations), could achieve the deals that they get. As a starting point, if Scottish football were to look into its own television package, we could then see how the likes of ESPN, Sky etc respond. If they shrug their shoulders and walk away, then fair enough they weren't that interested anyway.

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Most other leagues aren't part of a larger country with a truly massive league also sharing broadcast space. That's the key difference.

While say, Denmark, Belgium etc have similar sized leagues, they are their own countries, with their own TV providers. Our TV providers are UK wide, so the attraction / distraction of the EPL reigns supreme.

I wish folk would stop talking about Rangers/newco being punished, the only teams who'd be punished would be the teams whose promotion chances to the premier division are drastically reduced, should the cheats be admitted to Div 1.:rolleyes:

That photo is pure comedy genius! It's like finally being able to look at that footage/photo of the JFK assassination and see who the figure is at the fence behind the grassy knoll :faf: :faf: :faf:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-
premier

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

He's at the bottom of the stairway. :wink:

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Originally Posted by calmac12000

I disagree entirely, whilst I have no particular love for Celtic or indeed their fans I think it is erroneus and simplistic to equate both clubs as two cheeks of the same arse.
1. The present situation has absolutely nothing to do with Celtic, or indeed any other club it is entirely caused by the actions of one club i.e. Rangers.
2. The level of sectarian hatred and bile that emanates from around Ibrox is frankly unacceptable in this day and age. I am frankly amazed, as someone who practise no religion that absolutely no comment has been uttered by the football authorities or anyone else about the requirements of any NewCo to be not merely non-sectarian but positivly anti-sectarian. The efforts made officialy by Rangers have effectively been a chimera, as the contents of their fans websites reveals. The police should be looking at these website and the hate they purvey as a matter of some urgency. Their is no analogous website that I am aware of linked to Celtic or their supporters.
In my over forty years of supporting Scottish football I have only ever encountered sectarian behaviour afrom three sets of supporters namely the Huns, the Hertz and ****dee.
This is not to give a clean bill of health to Celtic, their supporters arrogance and their predilictions of some of them for the Provisional IRA are not to my mind acceotable sportingaffiliations.

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I'm not talking about sectarianism though. I'm talking about a club thats blatantly trying to cheat their way back into the Scottish Leagues for going out of business for cheating in the first place and Rangers fans having the arrogance to think that this is the way it should be.

It would be no different if it was Celtic. Celtic fans may have a secterian element to a far lesser degree, but their fans are just as arrogant and big headed as their pals across the city.

They would be trying to cheat their way back in as well if it was them in this situation. Neither club knows anything about sporting integrity.

Personally I hope Rangers disappear forever and Celtic follow them. :aok:

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Originally Posted by Lungo--Drom

That photo is pure comedy genius! It's like finally being able to look at that footage/photo of the JFK assassination and see who the figure is at the fence behind the grassy knoll :faf: :faf: :faf:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-
premier

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Yes great spot. Laugh out loud moment :top marks

If we only get 3 million we should just scrap the tv deal. I'm sure that could be made up by more fans going to the games they would have watched on tv.

I don't spend 28 quid or whatever going to watch the OF against us cos it's on tv. I'll pay to go to the hearts games though.

Fuller stadiums, better atmospheres against the big teams will draw fans back. Cut tv off if that's what we are going to get.