Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

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Originally Posted by rcarter1

How about this as a solution -

Regan/Doncaster/Longmuir (or replacements) could make a statement that says "we will work our hardest to replace any lost income to the gam should Rangers be admitted into the third, first or any other division. This will be achieved by promoting the Scottish game to the best of our ability, and seeking sponsorship and other revenue from sources that have Scottish footballs long term future at heart."

Rangers could issue a statement whereby they agree to pay Scottish football reparations over the next few years (provided they actually survive and bring in income) at a level which balances the need for them to operate competitively with their responsibility to the game overall. They should also agree to their accounts being freely available for monitoring by other clubs/governing bodies.

Celtic could back up their statement of support to the game, by providing a few million pounds per year (as a loan) to the SPL/SFL or individual clubs in order to help clubs reach a point of financial stability.

Tom Farmer could provide a few million (as a loan) to the SPL/SFL in order to help clubs reach a point of financial stability.

Vladimir Romanov could provide a few million (as a loan) to the SPL/SFL in order to help clubs reach a point of financial stability.

David Murray and Craig Whyte (and any others culpable) offer to pay reparations to Rangers/Scottish football (this is the least likely of all I accept)

Individual clubs in hardship could do their best to reorganise current financial demands to minimise their acute cash-flow problems.

Players could offer clubs in hardship, reductions or deferrals to their wages.

Supporters could express their enthusiasm for a game that is suffering a financial pressure caused by the consequences of Rangers situation.

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Not going to knock your idea but I dont think it would work to be honest.

Personally I think its not particularly the clubs that are in danger here, it is the SPL itself. The financial model that has been used is now broken beyond repair unless the rules are wantonly broken to accommodate one of its rotten pillars.

The very fact that doing this kills the 'sport' does not concern regan and doncaster, their myopic vision does not allow for other scenarios such as a better league structure, fairer financial distribution and getting clubs to live within means. Scottish football would be able to find its own level but the heads of the game prefer to chase the TV dollar - to hell with the clubs and fans.

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Originally Posted by EuanH78

Not going to knock your idea but I dont think it would work to be honest.

Personally I think its not particularly the clubs that are in danger here, it is the SPL itself. The financial model that has been used is now broken beyond repair unless the rules are wantonly broken to accommodate one of its rotten pillars.

The very fact that doing this kills the 'sport' does not concern regan and doncaster, their myopic vision does not allow for other scenarios such as a better league structure, fairer financial distribution and getting clubs to live within means. Scottish football would be able to find its own level but the heads of the game prefer to chase the TV dollar - to hell with the clubs and fans.

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10/10 Pretty sure that's their way of thinking. They can't see the woods for their own garden hedges.

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Originally Posted by doug2

Will be a very sad day but if it's corrupt I'm not interested

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If the newco end up in Div 1 the only reason will be that the people who run the game fear for the future of some clubs. Its the clubs themselves who are saying it will be hard to keep going if they are in the wilderness for more than a season, or 2 at most. This over reliance on THEM should have never been allowed to happen, but they are saying its the reality for them.

I dont think they are being corrupt I think they are trying to find a solution that punishes Rangers without punishing everybody else as well. I know they are a new club, but their loss in financial terms will be the same, newco or not. A rose by any other name as they say.


As for the EPL ...... Dont make me laugh ... most of these clubs ( in spite of the billions lavished on them by TV ) have levels of debt that would make Mad Vlad blush. If the TV pulled the plug tomorrow 2 thirds of clubs in the EPL would go tits up.

Scottish football is looking at some unpalatable decisions because they genuinely fear that losing TV income will damage the game. Do you really think the EPL would think any differently if it looked like the TV folk were going to pull out. I dont think so.

Aye ... Things are far from ideal here ... but I will stay and fight for the club and game I love as best as I can. Not look for a way out by giving my money to the greediest league in the world.

Pie in the sky thinking:

Two leagues of 16. (Rangers could go into the bottom league.)

Regional leagues below.

Proper pyramid system.

Knockout tournament (seeded, over 2 legs) for the League Championship between the top 8 in the top league, pioneering a more exciting end to the season and giving other teams a chance of winning. Culminates in a showpiece league decider at Hampden every year.

Play-offs for relegation beween top 4 in bottom league and bottom 4 in top league. At least 2 come up.

Do away with League Cup.

It must be a Friday. I'm off for a cup of tea.

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

Find it hard to believe his consultation vote only got a 36% "No to Newco" vote, probably more than Rangers fans voted.:confused:

Makes we wonder if he's using the union block vote tactic of major shareholders vote holding more sway than the small shareholders. 2499 voted no to newco and 1 voted yes but he holds 64% of the shares.:greengrin

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I think its the 36% of the 2500 eligible voted....notice they haven't revealed the percentage who voted either way in that grouping.

And unfortunately MJ holds a lot more shares than that!

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Originally Posted by grunt

Thanks for your reply. Any time someone says "Fact, Endof" to me I feel compelled to reply.
I've read the Stenny statement again. Nowhere does it indicate they've done their own research. Nowhere does it indicate that they haven't taken the SFA/SPL report as gospel - in fact all their arguments are based on the contents of that report. Nowhere does it state that they can't go forward without the cash from the SPL; in fact (that word again) they state the opposite - they say they would reduce their costs to manage. The Stenhousemuir view seems to boil down to the fact that since the SFA have made their mind up there's nothing Stenny can do so they may as well go along with it. The more I read their statement, the less I'm impressed with the thinking behind it. Opinion. Endof.

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Gers fans on the board IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Jonnyboy

Johnston says ............ In the course of the SPL General Meeting, prior to the vote, it became evident that a number of clubs which had previously been ambivalent about how they would vote were leaning towards "no" to "Newco" and the result of the vote was a foregone conclusion before it was taken.

It was a foregone conclusion before these allegedly ambivalent clubs decided how to vote. Rangers needed an 8-4 win so any more than five saying no would scupper them. Six said no before the meeting was even held.

MJ is squirming and so he should be

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And yet Doncaster sais he was "surprised" with the vote?....................and we should trust a word he says?.....and we should believe his false figures? Doncaster is a ****** :cb.

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Originally Posted by McS****y

Pie in the sky thinking:

Two leagues of 16. (Rangers could go into the bottom league.)

Regional leagues below.

Proper pyramid system.

Knockout tournament (seeded, over 2 legs) for the League Championship between the top 8 in the top league, pioneering a more exciting end to the season and giving other teams a chance of winning. Culminates in a showpiece league decider at Hampden every year.

Play-offs for relegation beween top 4 in bottom league and bottom 4 in top league. At least 2 come up.

Do away with League Cup.

It must be a Friday. I'm off for a cup of tea.

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Got my cup of tea.

Proper winter break.

Bring back the Tennents Sixes or something similar.

Scottish football needs radically shaken up, it's time to get progressive.

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Originally Posted by McS****y

Pie in the sky thinking:

Two leagues of 16. (Rangers could go into the bottom league.)

Regional leagues below.

Proper pyramid system.

Knockout tournament (seeded, over 2 legs) for the League Championship between the top 8 in the top league, pioneering a more exciting end to the season and giving other teams a chance of winning. Culminates in a showpiece league decider at Hampden every year.

Play-offs for relegation beween top 4 in bottom league and bottom 4 in top league. At least 2 come up.

Do away with League Cup.

It must be a Friday. I'm off for a cup of tea.

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have a slice of your sky pie while your at it:wink:

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Originally Posted by EuanH78

Not going to knock your idea but I dont think it would work to be honest.

Personally I think its not particularly the clubs that are in danger here, it is the SPL itself. The financial model that has been used is now broken beyond repair unless the rules are wantonly broken to accommodate one of its rotten pillars.

The very fact that doing this kills the 'sport' does not concern regan and doncaster, their myopic vision does not allow for other scenarios such as a better league structure, fairer financial distribution and getting clubs to live within means. Scottish football would be able to find its own level but the heads of the game prefer to chase the TV dollar - to hell with the clubs and fans.

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I agree that the idea is about as likely to happen as a Scottish summer. However my point is that 15.7 million - should that indeed be the sum, is not as hard to get a hold as the Roncasters are making it out to be. I do however disagree with your assessment that individual clubs are not in danger. Im sure that a few clubs like Kilmarnock, Motherwell, St Mirren are squirming pretty bad at the financial consequences of Rangers starting in the third division. They may all get through without administration, but on the other hand they might not. My point is that for clubs of that size, that may be put over the edge for reasons not of their making, it should be possible to find benefactors capable of tiding them over until they can sort out their finances.

I do agree that the SPL is seriously flawed and that many of those people running the game have been found wanting. Wherever Rangers end up, the game as a whole has a mandate for orchestrating real lasting changes for the better.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Thanks for your reply. Any time someone says "Fact, Endof" to me I feel compelled to reply.
I've read the Stenny statement again. Nowhere does it indicate they've done their own research. Nowhere does it indicate that they haven't taken the SFA/SPL report as gospel - in fact all their arguments are based on the contents of that report. Nowhere does it state that they can't go forward without the cash from the SPL; in fact (that word again) they state the opposite - they say they would reduce their costs to manage. The Stenhousemuir view seems to boil down to the fact that since the SFA have made their mind up there's nothing Stenny can do so they may as well go along with it. The more I read their statement, the less I'm impressed with the thinking behind it. Opinion. Endof.

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I'm exactly the same when I see FACT ENDOF!

I was just being sarcy.
On a serious note, I've discussed the statement at length with the Chairman of Stenny (definitely not a Hun apologist Stevie) and their view is based solely on income projections. Losing the SPL payments - which is what will happen - means they will be finished.

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Originally Posted by McS****y

Pie in the sky thinking:

Two leagues of 16. (Rangers could go into the bottom league.)

Yes please!

Regional leagues below.

Yes please!

Proper pyramid system.

Yes please!

Knockout tournament (seeded, over 2 legs) for the League Championship between the top 8 in the top league, pioneering a more exciting end to the season and giving other teams a chance of winning. Culminates in a showpiece league decider at Hampden every year.

No thanks!. For any league championship, everyone should play everyone else equally. Anything else is nonsense be it playoffs/splits in the league or whatever imo

Play-offs for relegation beween top 4 in bottom league and bottom 4 in top league. At least 2 come up.

Could handle that.... but done they way they do playoffs in engerlandshire

Do away with League Cup.

No thanks! There is only 3 things to win in Scotland.

It must be a Friday. I'm off for a cup of tea.

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Some good points made McS****y...

This is scandalous, and another indicator of the ineptitude of the footballing authorities in Scotland. The BBC pay Alan Hansen more than the entire SPL.



http://t.co/L2akVnqM

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/sta...46753758535680

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/sta...47200615485440

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/sta...47735565406209

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Originally Posted by Tony McKelvie @TonyMcKelvie

The huge difference in sums paid by BBC for football content, with national promotion of the EPL, serves to distort the UK football market.

Between just Hanson, Lineker and Shearer, the BBC pays £3.9M per year for Presenters on MoTD, around 8 times the entire rights deal for SPL

The £500K paid by the BBC each year for SPL broadcast rights compares poorly to the £1.5M it pays to Alan Hanson to present Match of the Day

BBC pays each SPL club approx £40,000 per season for TV, Radio and Internet rights. It pays each EPL club £3M per season for TV alone.


Stevensanph on @rangerstaxcase has taken the time to compare SPL TV revenue with that of other Euro Nations here:
http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/201...are-to-europe/

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Scottish football gets a bum deal. Like we didn't already know. :rolleyes:

The new Sticky Buns have only sold 250 season tickets

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/07...6908-23904912/

Wouldn't Regan and Doncaster look a bit stupid if they forced Sevco into the second tier and they went bust?

The whole Div1 thing irks me. Like it does many others :greengrin
If they're being 'parachuted' into Div1 (or any other division) because they are 'rangers' then surely, because they're carrying the historical branding, then they should be punished for historical deeds.
Let them keep their history and all the jazz, but take the punishments (if/when they're finally worked out).
If they dont want any punishments (ranging from didly squat, through to expulsion) then they shouldnt be trated any differently from any other club who are appkying for SFA licence and application for SFL.

Yes - they'll claim not be rangers, but have their fanbase, access to stadium etc etc (unless Green sells them off to cover the costs he's already incurred), and we know they'll be calling themselves 'rangers' within months. (In fact they've done it already - on the back of the SPL presentation/pamphlet it stated 'We Are Rangers'.)

On a more lighthearted note...
http://t.co/lBovRNpP
An architects 3D digital visualisation of Ibrox in 2013.

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

The new Sticky Buns have only sold 250 season tickets

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/07...6908-23904912/

Wouldn't Regan and Doncaster look a bit stupid if they forced Sevco into the second tier and they went bust?

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you mean they dinnae already? :wink:

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Originally Posted by green glory

This is scandalous, and another indicator of the ineptitude of the footballing authorities in Scotland. The BBC pay Alan Hansen more than the entire SPL.



http://t.co/L2akVnqM

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/sta...46753758535680

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/sta...47200615485440

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/sta...47735565406209

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I don't see the issue to be honest.

The first article there, what do attendances matter, it's number of viewers that Sky / BBC are interested in.

How much it pays it's pundits like Hansen to do 2 or 3 shows a week + tournaments, or Lineaker to host various sports shows are again largely irrelevant. In any case the stuff they present will be watched by many, many more people than ever tune into our stuff.


For the BBC and Sky, EPL football is a viewer winner. They pay top dollar to keep their access to the top ratings draw, they need to show it. They show our game because they've gotten a decent price and feel like showing it. We have no position of strength to negotiate from, and that is reflected in the prices we get. It's a business, not a charity.


Besides, we need to be moving away from dependence on TV cash that will always screw our game up with daft kick off times and the like, not get out the begging bowl for more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by green glory

This is scandalous, and another indicator of the ineptitude of the footballing authorities in Scotland. The BBC pay Alan Hansen more than the entire SPL.



http://t.co/L2akVnqM

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/sta...46753758535680

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/sta...47200615485440

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/sta...47735565406209

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Crackin stuff! Its quite astonishing to see how undervalued Scottish football is if the figures presented are true. This is pretty concrete evidence that those responsible for representing the Scottish game have failed miserably.

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Originally Posted by peterdouglas

I don't like the idea of Rangers being admitted straight into the first division but lets think logically about the options.

If Rangers start in the third division, which is where they realistically should be starting, what are the options regarding change to the game?
The SPL would now have 11 clubs that could change the way the top league works which is excellent. They could force through major changes regarding wealth distribution and ensure a more competitive league. What would happen to the structure of the SFL? Would it just not be the same old but with Rangers ploughing through the leagues back to the top division. All they would get would be a pay day or two for one season and that would be it....the SPL would still be this cut-off entity.

If Rangers, rightly or wrongly, were to start in the first the promised changes would be binding as far as the SFL is concerned. The SPL clubs would still outnumber Celtic so major changes could still be voted through in this years period that Rangers are absent. All this stuff about clubs going to the wall would go away. It might be mince but if we're talking purely money then surely clubs are more financially secure with all the "good" that Rangers and the old firm bring.

New Rangers will enter at some level and it's mental to suggest anyone like Spartans should take priority over them. Lets get real.

If they enter the third with no sanctions they will be in the top flight, free of debt and free to compete in Europe in season 15/16.

If they enter the first they will be in the SPL next season but will barred from Europe until 15/16. They will also have certain sanctions and will have to pay back all their footballing debts.

I don't think the "newco for D1" proposals are fair but if clubs were to vote for them to be admitted to the first division on the condition that HEAVIER sanctions were to be enforced, would it not suit everyone? The SPL have already blurred the lines so why not something like a 20 point penalty regardless of what division they are in for the next 4 years?

We'll all feel cleansed and like we have done something right if they are admitted to the third but think about where they will be in four years time. Regardless of how the vote goes they will be at the top of the SPL along with Celtic. Even if a perfect system of wealth distribution was to evolve in the years they are out of the top league that system would still see them near the top.
Rangers will now be OK regardless of what league they are in. Everyone at the club now wants to go to the bottom rung and you have to ask why. Is it because it will be better for them in the long run if they spend a few years in the doldrums and there is a big chance that the duopoly state of affairs and way of mind will still apply when they get back to the top?

I'm playing devils advocate big time but surely the main issues should be league reconstruction and seizing the opportunities while they exist. If the authorities are throwing deals at clubs to admit Rangers into league one then surely they have more to offer. The SFL and SPL clubs now know that the footballing authorities in Scotland are desperate so why don't we get together and go for their throats, forcing REAL change and not just these tit-bits?

The league Rangers play in is important in principal but it can also be viewed as a bargaining tool for the rest of us to use. A side-issue even when it comes to the momentous change that we can effect if we all put our heads together and realise the power we have collectively. Any board worth their salt should smell blood and be on the phone to their counterparts in the same division and discussing what changes we should be asking for...or even demanding!

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Starting in SFL3 is the best option for Rangers. They will emerge from that even stronger and Scottish Football will have gained nothing in the meantime. What a sad waste of a golden opportunity for revolutionary reform that would have benefited our game in the long term.

Anyone who reckons Rod doesn't care about the club should look at the way he dressed for the Chairman's meeting at Hampden the other day:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-premier

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Originally Posted by oldbutdim

I'm exactly the same when I see FACT ENDOF!

I was just being sarcy.
On a serious note, I've discussed the statement at length with the Chairman of Stenny (definitely not a Hun apologist Stevie) and their view is based solely on income projections. Losing the SPL payments - which is what will happen - means they will be finished.

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The SPL payment is backed up by legal documentation AFAIK and the SFA/FIFA would probably have to get involved if it was withheld. Let's call a spade a spade - the Stenhousemuir Board have pissed their pants and taken Regan/Doncaster's chat at face value without really analysing the situation much (despite their attempt to justify the decision).

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Originally Posted by green glory

This is scandalous, and another indicator of the ineptitude of the footballing authorities in Scotland. The BBC pay Alan Hansen more than the entire SPL.



http://t.co/L2akVnqM

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/sta...46753758535680

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/sta...47200615485440

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/sta...47735565406209

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What are the viewing figures for Sportscene versus MOTD?

What a way to end a hard night shift, coming across this pro-Hun drivel on the STV website:

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/10951...ing-integrity/

Is there no end to total pish and drivel these pro-Hun Weedgie hacks will spout? In future all sports journalists should be vetted and any personal interests should be recorded, be it fan or shareholder of a club. Hopefully that way there might be less complete pish like the above article.

The SPL doesn't work IMO, never has. Scottish football's got steadily worse since it went to the smaller league format. We need bigger divisions, be it 16, 18 or 20 teams. My preference would be for a top league of 20 and a second division of 22 (mainly based on the number of league clubs that we had before Rangers went bust). The main reason that we can't get to that is the club's insistence that they need the four home games against the Weejies to generate income. With Newrangers out of the picture for at least three years that should finally put paid to that argument. The way I see it, it gives two or three years to sort out the league structuring and get in a system that works. The whole set-up needs revised, but they need to get it right this time. To rush changes through in a couple of weeks will just screw things up even more, to do it to benefit one club, however they dress it up, is morally wrong.

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Originally Posted by Lungo--Drom

What a way to end a hard night shift, coming across this pro-Hun drivel on the STV website:

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/10951...ing-integrity/

Is there no end to total pish and drivel these pro-Hun Weedgie hacks will spout? In future all sports journalists should be vetted and any personal interests should be recorded, be it fan or shareholder of a club. Hopefully that way there might be less complete pish like the above article.

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The author isn't a "pro-Hun Weedgie hack". As it says at the bottom of the article, he's a Rangers-supporting blogger.

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Originally Posted by rcarter1

I agree that the idea is about as likely to happen as a Scottish summer. However my point is that 15.7 million - should that indeed be the sum, is not as hard to get a hold as the Roncasters are making it out to be. I do however disagree with your assessment that individual clubs are not in danger. Im sure that a few clubs like Kilmarnock, Motherwell, St Mirren are squirming pretty bad at the financial consequences of Rangers starting in the third division. They may all get through without administration, but on the other hand they might not. My point is that for clubs of that size, that may be put over the edge for reasons not of their making, it should be possible to find benefactors capable of tiding them over until they can sort out their finances.

I do agree that the SPL is seriously flawed and that many of those people running the game have been found wanting. Wherever Rangers end up, the game as a whole has a mandate for orchestrating real lasting changes for the better.

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I think I presented my point poorly to be honest. You are right that some clubs (SPL & SFL) will struggle. However, Doncaster and Regan are acting only out of self interest - to preserve the SPL, which without Rangers is a dead duck.

The other clubs do not figure at all in their thoughts I suspect. It is a convenient tool for them to wave around though, the SPL and Scottish football are not the same thing.

The SPL has shown to be a fundamentally flawed business and needs to be scrapped - for something with less onus on the big(oted) 2. This current direction is killing scottish football and has been doing so for decades. Bring on the fallout from its demise if you ask me.

Get rid of those 2 for people with more vision, all my opinion of course.

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Originally Posted by Speedway

Anyone who reckons Rod doesn't care about the club should look at the way he dressed for the Chairman's meeting at Hampden the other day:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-premier

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:faf:

:top marks

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Originally Posted by Speedway

Anyone who reckons Rod doesn't care about the club should look at the way he dressed for the Chairman's meeting at Hampden the other day:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-premier

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:thumbsup: :faf:

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Originally Posted by Speedway

Anyone who reckons Rod doesn't care about the club should look at the way he dressed for the Chairman's meeting at Hampden the other day:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-premier

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:hilarious

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Originally Posted by Speedway

Anyone who reckons Rod doesn't care about the club should look at the way he dressed for the Chairman's meeting at Hampden the other day:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-premier

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Brilliant! :thumbsup: