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It was a crude example, but wages would have been spent on it. The point is SNP are more than independence they focus on many issues from climate, economy, culture ect ect.Quote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
This should have been ring fenced, perhaps it will show it was
https://deanmthomson.substack.com/p/wheres-the-moneyQuote:
Originally Posted by Skol
Sunday mail with more. If its footage I'm not sure how Sturgeon can back away from saying accounts never been stronger
https://mobile.twitter.com/johncferg...67842268839937
John Ferguson
@johncferguson
💥Police passed emails claiming Sturgeon blocked finance scrutiny
💥Footage of former FM angrily telling NEC accounts ‘never been stronger’ and not to talk about them - weeks before fraud probe launched
💥Jewellery purchases being investigated
💥Portuguese villa revealed
What bull**** is this? Are they implying that Sturgeon bought a holiday villa with money stolen from the SNP?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
The press in this country are out of control.
Jackie Bailey says Humza must suspend NS after it's emerged she shut scrutiny of SNP finances. Big call for Humza he's been fawning for 3 months over the Murrells but was less so last week saying it would have been helpful if NS had told him about accountants quiting
Any comment on the first two bullet points the ones that are obviously huge news or just the second twoQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
What is clear is that money was raised for one purpose and used for another.
Some people want to believe the change in language being used to explain it away.
It would be easier just to accept what happened was wrong.
I do see some people have come round to this way of thinking but others still follow the party line
Just watched the video Sturgeon says the finances have never been stronger due to membership numbers. Also says members have to be careful when suggesting there are problems. She was either lying to the NEC or the party was lying to her. She also won't be happy that someone in the NEC has screenshotted a private meeting and chucked her under the bus by giving it to the press
Sounds like you're confusing the SNP with the Scottish Government.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Having worked for many years in the Scottish Government I can see no reason why the SNP would need to spend money on anything like that.
Political parties come up with policies formed on what their manifesto said. Basically ideas and they don't cost much. It then becomes government business and the government pays to get it done.
Every hour a SNP staff member works on any of those issues money is spent through wages. I'm guessing wages is the biggest outgoing. Look at the SNPs social media this year how much of it is actually about independence. That's their perogative of courseQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack
MA on another thread talks of the danger of taking things out of context. Without having seen the video, I expect this is what's happening here. Plus she'd be right to be angry about someone recording a private meeting - it's an enormous betrayal of trust. Unfortunately with the politics and press the way things are now, this is the new normal. The country is ****ed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
I thought this was all the subject of a CPS investigation. So how are these things being played out on the front pages o the press? Anyone who thinks this is the proper way to conduct an investigation needs to think again.
Are you complaining about how the SNP spends the party's money? I'm unclear about what is upsetting you here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Quite the opposite, they are well under control.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
I'm not complaining I'm saying you can see how ring fenced money can be spent on other things. Is that a crime I have no idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
There has clearly been mismanagement and some of the branch davidians are having aneurisms as dear leader is coming undone. I'm just annoyed that this shambles will put back independence for years, along with voting in the continuity candidate who is going down the same useless path
Am I the only one that thinks at this stage that NOTHING is clear?
We keep being told "clearly" that stuff has happened, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
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That’s where I am. Sturgeon’s legacy is to see the Indy dream dead for at least a decade. It’s hard to believe that only a matter of weeks ago we were looking at a special conference to drive things forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Stuff has undoubtedly happened, I'm not talking about any of the legal stuff. The treasurer quit as wasn't allowed to look at the books. The new treasurer says snp is running out of cash and legal fees and by election will push them. The auditors quit 8 months ago, NEC members say they weren't informed, they can't find an auditor yet close to the deadline. Sturgeon told the NEC that finances were good. They needed a 100k loan whilst buying a 100k campervan that sat outside the presidents mums house for 2 years, Humza said he should have been told about van.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
That's just stuff that is known and is ignoring the whole legal criminal angle
Whatever all that means, it's certainly another cracking Sunday of front pages for the SNP:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtydTgLW...pg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtydTgLW...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtydTgJX...pg&name=medium
Scotland’s ferry network is sinking, and taking the SNP with it | The Spectator
"If the SNP are booted out of western islands, it will be a well-deserved comeuppance for the party’s complete disregard for Scotland’s islanders. The ferries fiasco is the scandal that should have brought down the SNP long before we got to police raids and seizing a luxury campervan."
The only thing that is clear is that the speculation around anything SNP is like a circus that arrives in town promising a lion taming show but once you've bought your ticket it turns out to be a flea circus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
I’m surprised that Blackford wanting to call in the military to sort out the SNP Government’s mess hasn’t attracted more comment. The scandal is not that we failed to deliver two new ferries, it is that we have let our Islanders down so badly by not making alternative plans. And still nobody takes responsibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
That ferry is not run by the SG. It’s run by Highland Council. And it was them who asked Blackford to help them ask for military assistance. Well done to Blackford for jumping in to provide assistance.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
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You are right. It does however form part of the needless disruption to people’s lives on our islands and more far flung communities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
This particular shambles is down to the SNP / Independent controlled Highland Council.
After all those years of those papers giving nothing but positive front pages to the SNP, it's came to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
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It's absolutely ridiculous that it's being emphasised that the British army are helping. **** off its equally our Scottish army and 10% of it will be ours post independence. Sometimes the services help out councils when needed ie bins. That's not excusing the poor service but the uk isn't helping, we are helping ourselves using our resources
It's as clear as mud. And there's a lot of mud being thrown round at the moment.
When it's pointed out that the SNP is not actually responsible for day to day ferry operations, there's an immediate switch to blame the SNP controlled Highland Council. Yet when you look at the political composition of Highland Council you find that, yes, the SNP are the largest party, but it's a minority administration. They have 22 councillors out of 74. Some people just want to blame the SNP for everything.
https://www.highland.gov.uk/councillors/party
Who's budget was it?Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
I'm sure I recall Sturgeon taking responsibility for the ferries contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
But these issues are seldom clear cut. Why do we have failing ferry services? Could it be that a complete lack of investment in our lifeline ferry services by previous administrations might have some impact on the current situation? Labour were in power in the SG from 1999 to 2007. Let's see how many ferries were built in that period ...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtxHmqtX...pg&name=medium
Who ran calmac before devolution?Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Some people want to absolve the SNP of blame for anything. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Ha, very good. :wink: I'm not saying they're blameless, just that these things are seldom as simple as we sometimes like to think.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
No idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Your question is unclear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Which parties council budget is it. I've checked it's snp's as with previous years. Lots of the independents vote with themQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
The secretary of state for Scotland. Calmac were nationalised in the 1940s.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
It's certainly unusual to see the likes of Blackford lauding the broad shoulders of the union ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
Does context absolve blame?Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
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And I agree. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Depends what the context in the answer could be yes or no, in this instance noQuote:
Originally Posted by Kato
So the SNP and previous partys in charge are to blame, not just the SNP?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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Given that the SNP have been in power since 2007 it would be stretching it a bit to błame previous administrations for the unprecedented mess we have now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
I keep saying it but the people whose lives are being negatively impacted by this are all but forgotten when this is discussed with more focus being put on protecting politicians.
Have they been in charge since 2007 or has some of that time been coalitions?Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
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Ha ffs they have been in power for 16 years. But even if using that graph Labour built 1 but 3 had newly been built in the 5 years before. Then 2 in 16 years of snp and one that's a disaster still being builtQuote:
Originally Posted by Kato
There was an informal coalition with the Tories from 2007-2011.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
Other than that it’s been minority or majority SNP Governments. It would be hard for anybody to argue they haven’t held power since 2007 and keep a straight face. :greengrin
Am only asking questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
Its hard to keep a sense of proportion on this board the last few weeks. The proportion of scrutiny over aspects of govt is a bit hard to gain.
Seems like the SNP have screwed up over the ferry deal. Is something that they should be suspended or jailed for?
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No one suggested they should. But they should be held to account.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
I know many people want to bury their heads in the sand and deflect attention elsewhere.
Yeah to hell with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skol
I did open up the conversation and said that they had screwed up.
I'm now asking, given clearly something has happened, what should be done.
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Sadly no. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Kato
The ferrry deal is just part of the problem. Somebody in Government was responsible for what has turned in to a costly and embarrassing saga yet nobody has been identified. That’s led to the fleet bring two vessels down and magnified the issues caused by vessels past their use by date. Alternatives should have been chartered long before now. Getting the MV Alfred in is a start but as it was left so long to act it’s had to be taken on as crewed and operated by the owner, the most expensive option. A bareboat charter utilising existing CalMac crew would have been preferable. Given the problems being faced because of the aging fleet we probably need at least another two in now
The Islanders themselves should have been better represented on the bodies that run our ferry services. It beggars belief how their voices have been marginalised, centralisation at its worst. That needs urgently rectified, these are the people who depend on a decent service, they know what is required better than somebody who has never lived there could.
We still have sea passages that are longer than they need to be, building terminals at the closest possible point to the Islands being served would allow service frequencies to be increased and possibly allow cheaper vessels to be constructed. That is going to require a large investment in infrastructure but we should be planning for it now.
Lessons have already been learned about procurement , the deal to build the latest new ships in Turkey looks like value for money and something to be applauded.
Accountability seems to be sadly lacking across politics of all shades in the UK today. To say that there is also no accountability in the UK Government is not to deflect attention elsewhere, merely to point out a problem that we all face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skol
Yousaf seems to be talking of a review of some sort and changes as a result. That would be a start. Big test for him though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
I agree there. As someone who doesn’t vote for a tory or snp government I feel pretty badly let down.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
They will be, at the next election.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skol
New calls for Nicola Sturgeon to be suspended from SNP after fundraising leak
Baillie calling for Sturgeon's suspension.
She should submit that call to her branch Secretary giving her SNP member number.[emoji106]Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Jackie Baillie, the Labour MSP Jackie Baillie :faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:
Jeez. People are scraping the barrel now.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Very well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Or the tip of the iceberg? ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Since90+2
I'm sure you hope that's the case, thought I think you may be disappointed.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Oh the Sunday Mail you say?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Here's a thread about where this "newspaper" completely changed a historian's article when publishing it today.
This is how trustworthy the Sunday Mail is.
https://twitter.com/FunkyPlaid/statu...780660737?s=20
Quote:
What kind of bull**** is this, @Sunday_Mail
? This is not the text of the draft article I have on record. It’s been deliberately changed to portray blatant lies about my work and opinion, and I have proof of it. Never again will I give your reporters a moment of my time.
It was literally a video, unless she was computer generated by the mailQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-65293006
Why the refusal to grant NEC members (and indeed the party's national treasurer) sight of the accounts if they were as robust as was alleged?
"According to the Sunday Mail".Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Not showing the treasurer is just bizarre.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
I blame the media. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Doesn't matter if its the barrel or the iceberg the press dogs have been lost lose and can now say anything they want about the SNP and the legions of curtain twitchers who love our tabloids will spread it around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Since90+2
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All that is true but the SNP need to start fighting back. In the last two weeks they have not been putting up anyone to appear on news shows for interviews etc. It leaves the slot free for unionist politicians to present their view of the world. Yousaf needs to get some sort of media operation into gear quickly. To do that he needs to show that he is getting on top of this. So far it’s been pretty hopeless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
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Oh this is a fact is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Which part of the video do you think is incriminating?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
:faf:Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19...l-information/
Are you calling Douglas Chapman a liar? Or did the National just make this story up?
:greengrin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...peter-murrell/
Sturgeon not returning in person to Holyrood after the Easter break.
Your really down the rabbit hole everyone is lying apart from the glorious dear leaderQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
The video is from March 2021?
Is that you choosing which SNP people you believe? :cbQuote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
Whereas you are choosing to believe those who meet your agenda. Neither of us know what the truth is here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Difference is there has to be about 30 people lying for everything to be going great and normal in the snp. Or just you and the Murrells to be wrong for things to be going badQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
At the time, information was being leaked from the NEC, to some unsavoury outlets. They've since been replaced.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
It's ok though. The Tories have demanded the SNP suspend Nicola sturgeon and Peter murrell
The point being that she was telling the committee to keep their mouths shut about the party's finances and claiming they were in great shape shortly before her husband was loaning them over 100k to address cashflow problems and the police were embarking on their investigation into the missing 670k.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
I'm not sure you can just brush off Chapman's departure over lack of access to the accounts when his successor as treasurer (Beattie) has admitted the party is struggling to balance the books.
I’m struggling to see the problem with this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Would it not be expected that the books would be in decent shape in March 2021? The drop off in member numbers has presumably happened relatively recently (largely linked to unpopular policy choices so I'm not wanting to let them off the hook altogether).Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
A lot can change in a couple of years. And it's also not all that unusual for a business with generally healthy finances to need a help with cash flow from time to time.
Also, the point she is (presumably) trying to make is that whilst the finances may have been robust at that time, it's easy to spook people and cut off the flow of money. This is significant when they are relying on donors for that money. It's easy to manufacture a crisis entirely of your own making when none exists (which is as likely an explanation for this whole affair as anything else, from where I'm looking.)
Beattie's points are valid and true - but do they not refer more to the here and now, the post-covid, Ukraine war, post-Brexit, cost of living crisis era, where folk might think better of chucking a few quid the way of a pro-independence political party who have had the democratic door slammed shut in their faces?
Name your 30 people and we'll see how impartial and objective they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
The video was taken in March 2021. There is no loan in the SNP accounts at the 31 December 2021. So where do you get your "shortly before" from?Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Now then. Away with your common sense arguments. We'll have none of that here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
Scottish jobs for Scottish workers. 😒Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
During this period, leaks were occurring from the NEC from the private meetings. Keeping their mouths shut until the minutes are released is normally a prerequisite of being on such a committee.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Police were first contacted re the missing funds in March 2021. Chapman and Cherry were among the NEC members to resign in May 2021 citing lack of transparency re accounts. Murrell loan made in June 2021.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
So the loan was repaid by the year end?Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
So do we think Cherry leaked the video?Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
It's all speculation, like most things these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
BBC Scotland running a piece the other day on motorhome toilets was a new low.
Less than half has been repaid.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
I'm sorry, I was wrong, there's a £60k loan from executive management clear as day in the SNP 2021 accounts. (I was looking at the accounts for the SNP Westminster Group. Quite why they need separate accounts I don't know).Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
£60k was outstanding at December 2021.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
So, as I've found out to my embarrassment, the loan from Murrell is clearly stated in the SNP accounts. So why all the fuss about it?
It’s weird that? And separate audits need doing as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
I’m sure I read that Scottish Labour don’t even have their own accounts? They are handled by the party in London?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Separate accounts are needed because, under Electoral Law, they are a separate accounting unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
An audit is needed as their income is over £250k
Scottish Labour do have their own separate accounts, which are audited.
As an aside, the reserves of the SNP at the end of December 2021 were £610k. Those of Scottish Labour were £17k.
:aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
https://twitter.com/mrjohnnicolson/s...dxJXScFNwz8V4A
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I’ve watched the video a few times now and linking it back to the timeline of how events have unfolded I don’t think you could categorically say she has said anything out of order. You could only make that call if the entire conversation was present. There just doesn’t seem to be anything there that warrants her suspension from her party based on that clip alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
That ain’t going to stop opposition politicians calling for it but that’s just part and parcel of normal political life. Sturgeon herself didn’t excuse herself from the normal rough and tumble, she seemed to relish it and it can be good fun to watch :greengrin