Managerial Sack Race

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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby

Hibs fans suggestions on here are absolutely brutal btw . As to people using SAF as a example like I do I think it's important to do so as it reminds fans that even the greatest manager's who take over a club struggling can't do what fans want and fix everything immediately as what happened to Fergie with banners and chants for him to go . 3 years it took Ferguson to sort United out and he did even though fans would have sacked him long before which is a credit to the man U board for sticking with him thru difficult times .

I'm not saying LJ should get 3 year's though I do think another summer transfer window and giving him next season would be the right course of action imo . There's an awful lot of things that need fixed in this team yet and changing the manager at this stage isn't one of them . We can't keep sacking managers without giving them time to sort out issues at the club , we need some stability when it comes to the manager situation rather than fans calling for the manager's head every time we hit a bad result.

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I agree the suggestions of names that come up are brutal.

Yeah but your SAF example is 1 managerial appointment. There will have been tens of thousands of managerial appointments in Britain since then that haven’t done what he done. It’s safe to say the odds are massively stacked in favour of LJ being like the tens of thousands of others than the 1 outlier from 37 years ago.

I’ve noticed before that when SAF comes up as an example it’s usually because there’s little defence for the manager based on their own achievements, so people start referring to the achievements of a different manager from decades back instead. The SAF comparisons never come up when a manager is doing alright in their own right.

Stability would be great but it has to come off the back of some form of improvement considering the position we were in when he took over. If we finish bottom 6 then there hasn’t really been any at all. You can’t just give a manager time for the sake of some stability when that manager has failed every single target set to him.

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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby

Hibs fans suggestions on here are absolutely brutal btw . As to people using SAF as a example like I do I think it's important to do so as it reminds fans that even the greatest manager's who take over a club struggling can't do what fans want and fix everything immediately as what happened to Fergie with banners and chants for him to go . 3 years it took Ferguson to sort United out and he did even though fans would have sacked him long before which is a credit to the man U board for sticking with him thru difficult times .

I'm not saying LJ should get 3 year's though I do think another summer transfer window and giving him next season would be the right course of action imo . There's a awful lot of things that need fixed in this team yet and changing the manager at this stage isn't one of them . We can't keep sacking managers without giving them time to sort out issues at the club , we need some stability when it comes to the manager situation rather than fans calling for the manager's head every time we hit a bad result.

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Johnson was dealt a bad hand starting the job, however I don’t see much in the way of foundations he’s laying. Next season will be another churn of players. He also seems to have little interest in developing and bringing through our U19s, despite what he says.

I’d not make a big case to sack him, but similarly if he did leave I don’t think I’d remember him in a few years time.

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

Johnson was dealt a bad hand starting the job, however I don’t see much in the way of foundations he’s laying. Next season will be another churn of players. He also seems to have little interest in developing and bringing through our U19s, despite what he says.

I’d not make a big case to sack him, but similarly if he did leave I don’t think I’d remember him in a few years time.

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Yes he has been dealt a bad hand no doubt . He took over as Hibs manager at a bad time much like Stubbs though in one sense Stubbs was lucky most of the squad were gone when he came in , LJ has had guys like Mitchell, doidge, JDH , Henderson all on good contracts that have been hard to move on .

Summer recruitment let him down and the January one is the hardest to recruit players in , as for the foundations I think we have a good foundation to build on with players in our team like Boyle, rocky , Cadden , newell , Nisbet , Marshall , Campbell and am hoping we will sign Youan and few other quality players as well .

As to him not having any interest in developing the under - 19s I think that's a bit harsh, I'm sure he has a interest in seeing young players develop though maybe he feels they aren't ready yet . A manager throwing a rake of young kids into the 1st team while consistently under pressure from fans to be sacked wouldn't be very wise either though! Most fans probably wouldn't remember him if he left though I'd like to see him get a decent chance to succeed as I would any Hibernian manager . Article here on the Leicester city job , Brendan Rodgers another good manager btw that was badly treated and let down by his club imo.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...anager-4089833

The Fergie example is always a fun one, but given his record at Aberdeen prior to United, there was enough to suggest he’d come good given time.

Not sure Lee’s track record screams he’s an all time great just waiting for the right moment…

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Originally Posted by ScottB

The Fergie example is always a fun one, but given his record at Aberdeen prior to United, there was enough to suggest he’d come good given time.

Not sure Lee’s track record screams he’s an all time great just waiting for the right moment…

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I’m not against a manager getting time it there’s slow progress being made. It can’t just be the case that all managers just get time just cos sacked managers say they need it.

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Originally Posted by ScottB

The Fergie example is always a fun one, but given his record at Aberdeen prior to United, there was enough to suggest he’d come good given time.

Not sure Lee’s track record screams he’s an all time great just waiting for the right moment…

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Cmon now you don't honestly think I'm comparing SAF with LJ 😂😂😂 . I was merely pointing out managers are not given enough time to turn things around at football clubs like SAF who was a whisker away from being sacked. Marco Silva another manager who was sacked at Everton and now doing extremely well at Fulham .I think managers coming into a football club that's been toiling and are a mess( like ours ) need more time and support though from the day LJ was appointed it feels like there's a element in the Hibs support that are unwilling to gave him time to rebuild and make the team better .

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Originally Posted by bingo70

I’m not against a manager getting time it there’s slow progress being made. It can’t just be the case that all managers just get time just cos sacked managers say they need it.

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:agree:

You need to show something to merit time. If you look like you’ve not managed to improve on the previous **** shows then I don’t think you can have any complaints if you get binned.

I’d rather we changed managers until we got it right than stuck with someone who doesn’t manage to improve on what was a terrible season last year. As I said though, that’s if we finish bottom 6.

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Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2

I agree the suggestions of names that come up are brutal.

Yeah but your SAF example is 1 managerial appointment. There will have been tens of thousands of managerial appointments in Britain since then that haven’t done what he done. It’s safe to say the odds are massively stacked in favour of LJ being like the tens of thousands of others than the 1 outlier from 37 years ago.

I’ve noticed before that when SAF comes up as an example it’s usually because there’s little defence for the manager based on their own achievements, so people start referring to the achievements of a different manager from decades back instead. The SAF comparisons never come up when a manager is doing alright in their own right.

Stability would be great but it has to come off the back of some form of improvement considering the position we were in when he took over. If we finish bottom 6 then there hasn’t really been any at all. You can’t just give a manager time for the sake of some stability when that manager has failed every single target set to him.

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SAF I to be honest use alot merely because it proves that when a club hasn't a good squad and getting badly run a manager needs far more time than at one that's going well . There's many examples of clubs making a poor decision to get rid of there current manager rather than back him and it getting even worse , Jack Ross going and Maloney coming in is a classic one imo .

I don't use SAF as a example because I don't think our current manager hasn't achieved anything, he might be no world beater though I think his record is decent , he's won 2 trophies and when he was at Barnsley or Bristol city ( can't remember which now ) he beat premier league teams and pumped Man United. I'd also add that I repeatedly bring up when defending him that every club he's managed he's left them in a higher league position than when he took over (FACT) .

We have seen some really bad performance's there's no getting away from that fact though there's also been some very good games were we have played some really good stuff in . I think we finished 8th the year before LJ was appointed and we are currently 6th . I said at the start of the year we would finish 3,4 or 5 and for weeks I've thought 3rd was gone , I still think we will get 4th or 5th which would be a big improvement on 8th the year before also if you take in some awful decisions and having Nisbet out , losing Boyle for the season and other injuries I think LJ could have had maybe another 8 points or more if we hadn't been so unlucky this year.

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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby

SAF I to be honest use alot merely because it proves that when a club hasn't a good squad and getting badly run a manager needs far more time than at one that's going well . There's many examples of clubs making a poor decision to get rid of there current manager rather than back him and it getting even worse , Jack Ross going and Maloney coming in is a classic one imo .

I don't use SAF as a example because I don't think our current manager hasn't achieved anything, he might be no world beater though I think his record is decent , he's won 2 trophies and when he was at Barnsley or Bristol city ( can't remember which now ) he beat premier league teams and pumped Man United. I'd also add that I repeatedly bring up when defending him that every club he's managed he's left them in a higher league position than when he took over (FACT) .

We have seen some really bad performance's there's no getting away from that fact though there's also been some very good games were we have played some really good stuff in . I think we finished 8th the year before LJ was appointed and we are currently 6th . I said at the start of the year we would finish 3,4 or 5 and for weeks I've thought 3rd was gone , I still think we will get 4th or 5th which would be a big improvement on 8th the year before also if you take in some awful decisions and having Nisbet out , losing Boyle for the season and other injuries I think LJ could have had maybe another 8 points or more if we hadn't been so unlucky this year.

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4th and 5th would definitely be an improvement on last year, there’s no getting away from that. 7th wouldn’t particularly be though imo so if it’s bottom 6 we end up then I’d say we have completely failed in every aspect of this season and has to go. Top 6 then I’d agree he should stay.

Injuries etc are part of football. Maloney last season had Boyle sold after 3 games (2 victories and a defeat at Celtic Park) and Nisbet injured as well. He didn’t deserve to be kept on longer than he was though, regardless of the fact he was unlucky to have to deal with those situations. If LJ ends up in a situation where we’re bottom 6 then it’s on him for not having worked out how to get more from the squad imo. If we kept him on next season there’ll be more injuries again. There always is. You can’t use injuries over the course of a full season as an excuse for failing to meet every single target you’re set over a seasons worth of games.

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Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2

4th and 5th would definitely be an improvement on last year, there’s no getting away from that. 7th wouldn’t particularly be though imo so if it’s bottom 6 we end up then I’d say we have completely failed in every aspect of this season and has to go. Top 6 then I’d agree he should stay.

Injuries etc are part of football. Maloney last season had Boyle sold after 3 games (2 victories and a defeat at Celtic Park) and Nisbet injured as well. He didn’t deserve to be kept on longer than he was though, regardless of the fact he was unlucky to have to deal with those situations. If LJ ends up in a situation where we’re bottom 6 then it’s on him for not having worked out how to get more from the squad imo. If we kept him on next season there’ll be more injuries again. There always is. You can’t use injuries over the course of a full season as an excuse for failing to meet every single target you’re set over a seasons worth of games.

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I believe we will make top 6th though I'd probably be in the minority and go as far to say even if we don't make top 6 which would be a disastrous season ( again) I'd give him another season to rebuild the squad . I think he knows who he doesn't want to keep ( two of them we accepted bids for in Jan ) which I think there will be quite a few and will be hard to move them on btw and what he needs to take us forward .

I wouldn't say I'm using injuries to make an excuse for him though any team that loses there best players normally struggle when they haven't that big of a squad and losing a player of Boyle's calibre for a full season along with Nisbet and the rest hasn't help, quite sad when you think that at no point in the season we have had our best 11 to pick from.

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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby

I believe we will make top 6th though I'd probably be in the minority and go as far to say even if we don't make top 6 which would be a disastrous season ( again) I'd give him another season to rebuild the squad . I think he knows who he doesn't want to keep ( two of them we accepted bids for in Jan ) which I think there will be quite a few and will be hard to move them on btw and what he needs to take us forward .

I wouldn't say I'm using injuries to make an excuse for him though any team that loses there best players normally struggle when they haven't that big of a squad and losing a player of Boyle's calibre for a full season along with Nisbet and the rest hasn't help, quite sad when you think that at no point in the season we have had our best 11 to pick from.

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He decided to gamble what would have been a fairly large part of our budget on McGeady though. Wasn’t completely unpredictable how that would pan out. He also seemed to gamble on Magennis getting his fitness back, again i think s lot of us would have predicted how that panned out.

Does anybody know how to find out how we are doing points wise this season compared to last season?

With the resources we have, anything outside the top six would be an abject failure, especially given our no show in both cups.

If we are top six then it's hardly stunning season, but I'd stick with Johnson.

Outside of it i'll be shouting up the next guy. Our ambitions can't ever be so low that we feel 7th, out tamely of two cups, is somehow an acceptable stage of a 'rebuild'.

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Originally Posted by bingo70

He decided to gamble what would have been a fairly large part of our budget on McGeady though. Wasn’t completely unpredictable how that would pan out. He also seemed to gamble on Magennis getting his fitness back, again i think s lot of us would have predicted how that panned out.

Does anybody know how to find out how we are doing points wise this season compared to last season?

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Last season to 30 games - 37pts
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/scot...21&spieltag=30

This season to 30 games -40pts
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/scot...22&spieltag=30

Not much progress

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Originally Posted by Billy Whizz

Last season to 30 games - 37pts
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/scot...21&spieltag=30

This season to 30 games -40pts
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/scot...22&spieltag=30

Not much progress

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Goal difference of -2 compared to -3 as well. Considering we’ve got a 6-0 win under our belts this this season I thought we would have a much better goal difference this season.

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Originally Posted by Billy Whizz

Last season to 30 games - 37pts
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/scot...21&spieltag=30

This season to 30 games -40pts
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/scot...22&spieltag=30

Not much progress

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Jesus, I actually didn’t realise it was as close as that. When you throw in the disastrous cup runs there really has been no progress at all.

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Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S

With the resources we have, anything outside the top six would be an abject failure, especially given our no show in both cups.

If we are top six then it's hardly stunning season, but I'd stick with Johnson.

Outside of it i'll be shouting up the next guy. Our ambitions can't ever be so low that we feel 7th, out tamely of two cups, is somehow an acceptable stage of a 'rebuild'.

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I tend to agree. I think any Hibs manager finishing outside the top six should have his position reviewed. As you say with our resources compared to the competition top six is a minimum requirement. No one has the devine right to finish anywhere but for me Hibs finishing outside the top six is failure.

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Originally Posted by Billy Whizz

Last season to 30 games - 37pts
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/scot...21&spieltag=30

This season to 30 games -40pts
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/scot...22&spieltag=30

Not much progress

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Doesn’t reflect well when you add in the disaster that is the cups. And the fact that we’ll be embarking on another rebuild of the squad in a couple of months time.

Needs to go and get a European place to rescue the season for me.

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

Doesn’t reflect well when you add in the disaster that is the cups. And the fact that we’ll be embarking on another rebuild of the squad in a couple of months time.

Needs to go and get a European place to rescue the season for me.

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Top 6 and he can point to some sort of progress.

No top 6 and another rebuild coming this summer and I can’t see any argument at all for keeping him.

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

Doesn’t reflect well when you add in the disaster that is the cups. And the fact that we’ll be embarking on another rebuild of the squad in a couple of months time.

Needs to go and get a European place to rescue the season for me.

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Good point. Last season we got to the League Cup Final and Scottish Cup semi final
All we’ve had to concentrate this season is the league. As I said before LJ has to have his share of the blame, but the recruitment has been terrible.

Players not even good enough to play for Hibs, getting massive salaries

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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby

Cmon now you don't honestly think I'm comparing SAF with LJ 😂😂😂 . I was merely pointing out managers are not given enough time to turn things around at football clubs like SAF who was a whisker away from being sacked. Marco Silva another manager who was sacked at Everton and now doing extremely well at Fulham .I think managers coming into a football club that's been toiling and are a mess( like ours ) need more time and support though from the day LJ was appointed it feels like there's a element in the Hibs support that are unwilling to gave him time to rebuild and make the team better .

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Haha indeed not! But I guess my point was that there was enough in SAF’s background to make giving him time worthwhile. Ultimately you need to make a decision on whether a guy who has done well before just needs more time to get it right or not, or for someone less experienced, are they just not fulfilling their potential yet.

I’m not sure Lee’s Hibs record is all that out of line with his career to date? So the question becomes, is this just as good as he’s likely to perform, or is there a reservoir of as yet untapped potential…

Fwiw, any manager with the backing that LJ has had with hard cash and doesn't make 6th spot in this crappy league does not deserve to be in his position. I'm sorry, but how many transfer windaes do yi need.

Nottingham Forest Manager Steve Cooper gets the dreaded seal of approval from the Board

BBC Sport

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Originally Posted by BILLYHIBS

Nottingham Forest Manager Steve Cooper gets the dreaded seal of approval from the Board

BBC Sport

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They be absolute idiots to sack him. Done a terrific job.

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Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES

They be absolute idiots to sack him. Done a terrific job.

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👍

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Originally Posted by BILLYHIBS

Nottingham Forest Manager Steve Cooper gets the dreaded seal of approval from the Board

BBC Sport

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It's the media that have been stirring this up, the local media being some of the worst. Most Forest fans that venture an opinion like and respect Steve Cooper and want him to stay. They tend to be of the opinion too that if the worst should happen and relegation happens, he would be the best placed man to get them back up again.

It's a fairly unsusual situation that so many fans are behind a manager in this situation but it's certainly the case at the City Ground. Marinakis knows that full well too.

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Originally Posted by BILLYHIBS

Nottingham Forest Manager Steve Cooper gets the dreaded seal of approval from the Board

BBC Sport

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Don't have the money to compete in that league unless he got lucky with a few results, they've played some really good stuff and have an outstanding talent in Brennan Johnson, it was always going to be a struggle but they'll get a good few pounds when/if they go down.

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Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES

They be absolute idiots to sack him. Done a terrific job.

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Were they not languishing a decent bit behind at the bottom of the league at one point? I feel like I remember looking at the table and thinking they were certs for the drop.

If that was the case then he’s done alright to turn it around to them being out the relegation zone imo.

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Originally Posted by BILLYHIBS

Nottingham Forest Manager Steve Cooper gets the dreaded seal of approval from the Board

BBC Sport

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Hope they don't panic into a sacking. He's been brilliant and the players seem to love him.

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Chelsea in advanced talks with Frank Lampard to become caretaker manager

[emoji3166]

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Originally Posted by Callum_62

Chelsea in advanced talks with Frank Lampard to become caretaker manager

[emoji3166]

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Madness. Only in football