Coronavirus

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

ScotGov have been woefully slow on a lot of things, but on the facecoverings they have been way more than a couple of weeks ahead of UKGov. Sturgeon has been urging their use for many, many weeks now, while Tory MPs are still talking about 'monstrous impositions' :crazy: It's one of the issues on which it's very clear to see the difference between having leadership and not having leadership.

The whole 'we can't prove it works therefore let's not do it' mantra out of both governments was pish right from the start. Sturgeon and Leitch occasionally hinted but I'm not sure ever spelled out, honestly, 'we don't have enough to go round so leave masks well alone for healthcare workers'.

---

Pretty sure face coverings were compulsory on public transport in England before Scotland followed suit. Might be wrong though.

I note that Wales are only making them compulsory on public transport from July 27th.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee

My concern is a few months ago we were advised that masks did nothing. I found that advice ridiculous as it seemed common sense that a face covering could at least reduce the risk of passing on the virus.

Now there is growing noises on the virus potentially being airborne? Do we wait for confirmation or just reduce our risks ourselves.

I'm not going anywhere near a plane until I know a lot more.

---

Me neither.

I read a quote from an airline spokesperson who claimed that they don't need social distancing on planes because everyone is facing forward and therefore less likely to spread infection :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

ScotGov have been woefully slow on a lot of things, but on the facecoverings they have been way more than a couple of weeks ahead of UKGov. Sturgeon has been urging their use for many, many weeks now, while Tory MPs are still talking about 'monstrous impositions' :crazy: It's one of the issues on which it's very clear to see the difference between having leadership and not having leadership.

The whole 'we can't prove it works therefore let's not do it' mantra out of both governments was pish right from the start. Sturgeon and Leitch occasionally hinted but I'm not sure ever spelled out, honestly, 'we don't have enough to go round so leave masks well alone for healthcare workers'.

---

They were only made mandatory in shops last Friday were they not?

Anyone who went to a supermarket prior to that would have seen the vast majority of people didn’t wear one.

I’ll give you that the ScotGov moved from ‘not much use’ to ‘recommended’ to ‘mandatory’ in a rather more cohesive manner but the net effect has been the same....majority of people were not wearing masks in shops until Friday last. 5 weeks after the WHO changed guidance.

So the question still stands did the ScotGov take 5 weeks and the UK Gov 7 weeks to make them mandatory in shops for the same reason or a different one?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by G B Young

Me neither.

I read a quote from an airline spokesperson who claimed that they don't need social distancing on planes because everyone is facing forward and therefore less likely to spread infection :confused:

---

Sounds like something Bojo would come out with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyeSloan

They were only made mandatory in shops last Friday were they not?

Anyone who went to a supermarket prior to that would have seen the vast majority of people didn’t wear one.

I’ll give you that the ScotGov moved from ‘not much use’ to ‘recommended’ to ‘mandatory’ in a rather more cohesive manner but the net effect has been the same....majority of people were not wearing masks in shops until Friday last. 5 weeks after the WHO changed guidance.

So the question still stands did the ScotGov take 5 weeks and the UK Gov 7 weeks to make them mandatory in shops for the same reason or a different one?

---

Sturgeon has been recommending their use in shops and on public transport since April. So if you like ScotGov took two and a half months to make them mandatory. Whereas UKGov only took one day, since the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster said on Sunday that they wouldn't be made mandatory in shops, and on Monday they were made mandatory. GBY is right that they've been mandatory on public tarnsport in England for a while (since June).

To answer your question, I think the ScotGov and UKGov are not necessarily doing things like this for the same reasons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyeSloan

Excellent article here from Bloomberg on the story behind the Oxford vaccine.

It’s also pretty positive reading in terms of timeline, chances of success and the groundwork in place to produce the thing.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...s-front-runner

---

I saw an interview with her on YouTube a few weeks ago. She is a seriously impressively clever lady.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

Breast screening is still to resume at all unfortunately but there was an announcement on Monday that people would "slowly" begin to receive invitations from 13th July and the screening programme itself was to restart on 3rd August.

Anyone who had a cervical screening appointment before the lockdown or was due to make an appointment could make an appointment from 29th June and letters were going out as of 13th July.

https://www.gov.scot/news/breast-can...ing-to-resume/

---

Thanks. It worries me how much targeting CV has displaced other treatments. Can we catch up on all backlogs and restore normal service before the winter, and can we then maintain a normal service through the next wave? I don’t doubt for a second that much finer minds than mine are working on this right now, but I do worry we have already stored up new problems for the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by G B Young

Me neither.

I read a quote from an airline spokesperson who claimed that they don't need social distancing on planes because everyone is facing forward and therefore less likely to spread infection :confused:

---

Do you have to walk backwards to the toilet at the back of the plane?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by G B Young

Pretty sure face coverings were compulsory on public transport in England before Scotland followed suit. Might be wrong though.

I note that Wales are only making them compulsory on public transport from July 27th.

---

You're correct.

They've been compulsory on public transport in England since 15th June. In Scotland they were made compulsory from 22nd June.

538 cases and 85 deaths registered in the UK since yesterday.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

538 cases and 85 deaths registered in the UK since yesterday.

---

Yet again most were in England.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d765eaf9a1.jpg

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Managed to get my haircut at 6.40am, was first there, barber said he had over 50 odd people yesterday and had to turn people away eventually

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4

Managed to get my haircut at 6.40am, was first there, barber said he had over 50 odd people yesterday and had to turn people away eventually

---

Probably discriminatory if he just turned away the odd ones.

Regarding the wearing of masks:

Either they're helpful in helping prevent spread infection or they're not.

If the government's opinion is that they are helpful, then surely that would have been the case from the very beginning? The disease hasn't changed in any great way that we're aware of since March that suddenly made the wearing of masks effective.

So, why wait until we've got to a situation where there are nearly zero deaths from Covid to introduce them? Surely, if they are actually useful in helping prevent spread infection, the wearing of masks could have helped prevent hundreds, maybe thousands, of deaths.

Making them compulsory at this late stage makes NO sense whatsoever... that applies equally to Westminster and Holyrood.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keith_M

Regarding the wearing of masks:

Either they're helpful in helping prevent spread infection or they're not.

If the government's opinion is that they are helpful, then surely that would have been the case from the very beginning? The disease hasn't changed in any great way that we're aware of since March that suddenly made the wearing of masks effective.

So, why wait until we've got to a situation where there are nearly zero deaths from Covid to introduce them? Surely, if they are actually useful in helping prevent spread infection, the wearing of masks could have helped prevent hundreds, maybe thousands, of deaths.

Making them compulsory at this late stage makes NO sense whatsoever... that applies equally to Westminster and Holyrood.

---

Don't want to stick up for anyone and mistakes have been made but this is a very new virus, the science has been coming in thick and fast, things are changing on an ongoing basis as information becomes more prevelant and is verified more now

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keith_M

Regarding the wearing of masks:

Either they're helpful in helping prevent spread infection or they're not.

If the government's opinion is that they are helpful, then surely that would have been the case from the very beginning? The disease hasn't changed in any great way that we're aware of since March that suddenly made the wearing of masks effective.

So, why wait until we've got to a situation where there are nearly zero deaths from Covid to introduce them? Surely, if they are actually useful in helping prevent spread infection, the wearing of masks could have helped prevent hundreds, maybe thousands, of deaths.

Making them compulsory at this late stage makes NO sense whatsoever... that applies equally to Westminster and Holyrood.

---

Possibly because until recently you should have, other than going to get food, been staying at home mostly. Now people are out and about more and mixing in enclosed spaces then it becomes more important.
Since April the scottish government has advised the wearing of masks in shops and on public transport. Theis was later enforced with legislation.

I wonder if this debate is so prevalent in other countries who have been using masks and have much lower infection rates and death tolls than the countries who are inhabited by people who seem to have such an issue with it, namely UK and USA.

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Future17

Probably discriminatory if he just turned away the odd ones.

---

:greengrin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keith_M

Regarding the wearing of masks:

Either they're helpful in helping prevent spread infection or they're not.

If the government's opinion is that they are helpful, then surely that would have been the case from the very beginning? The disease hasn't changed in any great way that we're aware of since March that suddenly made the wearing of masks effective.

So, why wait until we've got to a situation where there are nearly zero deaths from Covid to introduce them? Surely, if they are actually useful in helping prevent spread infection, the wearing of masks could have helped prevent hundreds, maybe thousands, of deaths.

Making them compulsory at this late stage makes NO sense whatsoever... that applies equally to Westminster and Holyrood.

---

- At the start of the crisis there was a shortage of masks so Govt wanted to prioritise availability for frontline workers. Remember the PPE shortages?

- The evidence for the benefits of masks in relation to stopping the spread of COVID has improved over time as studies have increased in both volume and depth.

- The importance of masks has increased as lockdown measures have lifted as the general public become in closer contact with each other. The risk of closer interaction is being mitigated with the introduction of masks. At the height of lockdown there was not much need for masks when people kept to their own household.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CapitalGreen

- At the start of the crisis there was a shortage of masks so Govt wanted to prioritise availability for frontline workers. Remember the PPE shortages?

- The evidence for the benefits of masks in relation to stopping the spread of COVID has improved over time as studies have increased in both volume and depth.

- The importance of masks has increased as lockdown measures have lifted as the general public become in closer contact with each other. The risk of closer interaction is being mitigated with the introduction of masks. At the height of lockdown there was not much need for masks when people kept to their own household.

---

:agree:

I think it's some sort of combination - if not all - of those reasons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by degenerated

Possibly because until recently you should have, other than going to get food, been staying at home mostly. Now people are out and about more and mixing in enclosed spaces then it becomes more important.
Since April the scottish government has advised the wearing of masks in shops and on public transport. Theis was later enforced with legislation.

I wonder if this debate is so prevalent in other countries who have been using masks and have much lower infection rates and death tolls than the countries who are inhabited by people who seem to have such an issue with it, namely UK and USA.

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

---

People have been mixing more since stage one of the routemap came in 7 weeks ago on 28th May - I've said before that I believe that is when face coverings should have been made compulsory and I still stick by that. I also can't understand why they're compulsory in supermarkets when people have been shopping without the need to wear one for the past 4 months.

I was told by someone on here that it was because supermarkets would be one of the businesses that would be allowed to cut their distancing rules to 1 metre and therefore coverings would be required as an additional safety measure.

I obviously can't speak for every supermarket in the country but my own experience at my local Tesco store is that nothing has changed since last week with regards to physical distancing and people are still being told to keep 2 metres apart.

I understand it on public transport where you might be lucky to keep 2 inches away from others at peak times but I'm struggling with the supermarkets. This is also backed up by the fact that shop workers are exempt from wearing them provided they maintain 2 metres distancing!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CapitalGreen

- At the start of the crisis there was a shortage of masks so Govt wanted to prioritise availability for frontline workers. Remember the PPE shortages?

- The evidence for the benefits of masks in relation to stopping the spread of COVID has improved over time as studies have increased in both volume and depth.

- The importance of masks has increased as lockdown measures have lifted as the general public become in closer contact with each other. The risk of closer interaction is being mitigated with the introduction of masks. At the height of lockdown there was not much need for masks when people kept to their own household.

---

I get points one and three but I'm sceptical about point two.

Other countries, and regions within those countries, made mask wearing compulsory pretty early on and I can't imagine they had any different scientific evidence than Scotland, or the UK.

The German region of Thuringen*, for instance, was incredibly quick out of the blocks in regard to compulsory masks (I think from the beginning of April) and is actually the region of Germany with the lowest deaths and infection rates.

South Korea did the same thing and has had similar results.

The UK has simply handled this really badly, and the infection rates and number of deaths are evidence of that. If there were limited numbers of masks, then that is a failure on the part of the UK.



* UPDATE: I just found out it's second lowest, after Sachsen-Anhalt, but you get the idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keith_M

I get points one and three but I'm sceptical about point two.

Other countries, and regions within those countries, made mask wearing compulsory pretty early on and I can't imagine they had any different scientific evidence than Scotland, or the UK.

The German region of Thuringia, for instance, was incredibly quick out of the blocks in regard to compulsory masks (I think from the beginning of April) and is actually the region of Germany with the lowest deaths and infection rates.

South Korea did the same thing and has had similar results.

The UK has simply handled this really badly, and the infection rates and number of deaths are evidence of that. If there were limited numbers of masks, then that is a failure on the part of the UK.

---

I didn’t say any country or region had different scientific advice, I just said there was more of it which makes the case for masks stronger.

I also don’t think any one reason should be taken in isolation. For example, how did the German region of Thuringia‘s PPE stockpile compare with the shortages experienced in the UK?

Also, your examples of both Germany and South Korea feed into my point that there is now greater evidence of the effectiveness of masks than there was earlier in the crisis.

By the way, I don’t disagree that masks should have been encouraged or mandated earlier. I just don’t agree with your argument that there is no sense in encouraging/mandating them now because we didn’t do so earlier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keith_M

Making them compulsory at this late stage makes NO sense whatsoever...

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keith_M

I get points one and three but I'm sceptical about point two.

Other countries, and regions within those countries, made mask wearing compulsory pretty early on and I can't imagine they had any different scientific evidence than Scotland, or the UK.

The German region of Thuringia, for instance, was incredibly quick out of the blocks in regard to compulsory masks (I think from the beginning of April) and is actually the region of Germany with the lowest deaths and infection rates.

South Korea did the same thing and has had similar results.

The UK has simply handled this really badly, and the infection rates and number of deaths are evidence of that. If there were limited numbers of masks, then that is a failure on the part of the UK.

---

I don't suppose anyone will ever be able to show definitively what the right timing for making masks compulsory was. I personally think it should have been sooner but we also need to accept that the public won't just obediently follow every rule handed down by politicians. I personally don't think we'd have seen the type of anti mask protests here that we've seen elsewhere in the world but I do accept it had to be considered. I think that the Scottish government has now built up sufficient credibility based on daily stats evidence that people will accept the mandatory wearing of masks where they may not have a month ago, particularly given that the timing is aligned to granting a lot more freedom in daily life.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by degenerated

Possibly because until recently you should have, other than going to get food, been staying at home mostly. Now people are out and about more and mixing in enclosed spaces then it becomes more important.
Since April the scottish government has advised the wearing of masks in shops and on public transport. Theis was later enforced with legislation.

I wonder if this debate is so prevalent in other countries who have been using masks and have much lower infection rates and death tolls than the countries who are inhabited by people who seem to have such an issue with it, namely UK and USA.

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

---

Yes, in Germany we've had compulsory mask wearing rules for some time now. It became compulsory during lockdown for essential trips outside the home like shopping and is now still compulsory in places where many people congregate like shops, government offices and public transport. Despite the success of mask regulations combined with other measures like social distancing, there is resistance from a loud minority of mainly right wing nut nutjobs protesting about their rights of free choice. The same nutjobs who paradoxically resist equal rights and free choice for LGBTQ, women, foreigners and abortion laws.

Had to order a home testing kit for the missus, bit of a cough, anyway test kit came and everything was quite straight forward apart from the bit cardboard that came with it, home test kits will be for the old and infirm I would think, it took me about 15 minutes to turn the bit cardboard into a box :greengrin yes it has instructions but they were covered by a purple sticker :rolleyes: how the elderly and infirm are going to make theses boxes up I don't no.

Daily Scottish update;

11 new cases since yesterday
Increase of 19 in hospital but a decrease of 9 in the confirmed cases
No change in intensive care but an increase of 1 in the confirmed cases
4138 have left hospital since 5th March
1 death registered since yesterday

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverhibee

Had to order a home testing kit for the missus, bit of a cough, anyway test kit came and everything was quite straight forward apart from the bit cardboard that came with it, home test kits will be for the old and infirm I would think, it took me about 15 minutes to turn the bit cardboard into a box :greengrin yes it has instructions but they were covered by a purple sticker :rolleyes: how the elderly and infirm are going to make theses boxes up I don't no.

---

You managed 😉

Analysis shows only 4.3% of the Scottish population currently have antibodies to Covid-19.

Antibody testing suggests only 4.3% of people in Scotland have been exposed to Covid 19 to the end of June

Only for Fife and Tayside, but an interactive map that shows statistics at ward level.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news...n-most-deadly/