"Thrawn" is the word yahoor! :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by down-the-slope
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"Thrawn" is the word yahoor! :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by down-the-slope
This proposal, if it's as I understand it, is actually worse than the proposal to reinstate the new Rangers into the SPL.
The idea that the new company would be admitted into the SFL and put into the highest division within that organisation is ludicrous in itself. Then the idea that the SPL would then pay the SFL around £1 million to be able to screen the new Rangers' matches beggars belief.
There is absolutely no way that this should be allowed to happen and all the clubs in the SFL should be uniting to ensure that it doesn't happen.
Anyone who is behind this proposal should be hanging their heads in shame and should be hounded out of Scottish football.
If there is going to be a new club coming into the Scottish leagues, it must be made to start in the lowest division.
If I was an Alloa fan just now, having just watched my team play a full season's worth of matches in the third division and getting promoted, on merit, to the second division, I would be absolutely disgusted at the thought of a brand new club being admitted into the SFL structure one division higher than my own team, without even kicking a single ball.
The Sky thing is scaremongering at its worst. They have just paid £3 billion for Premiership rights, why risk the bad publicity and cancellations from Scotland by pulling the plug on a deal that costs them chicken feed?
Trouble is they have nae shame so you'll be waiting a long time for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by FalkirkHibee
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Originally Posted by FalkirkHibee
Your just sayin that cause Alloa is near you.
I'm well aware of the Fairydean's efforts to get into the SFL in the past. But they are a classic example of what my post was about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser1962
In what possible context could the Fairydean bring anything to the table which would set them apart from Annan, Peterhead, Elgin etc. In football terms they would be as worthy of entry to the SFL as any other club. But the point is that we are talking about professional football and like it or not a decision to allow a club with 200 fans into a league in front of a club with a stadium fit to host International football and the ability, in time, to fill that stadium would be just stupid.
I want to see Scottish football back on an even keel, with fair play and fair finances. Part of that is to have as many big games as possible and historically Hibs v Rangers has been a match to look forward to. Do you think Hibs v Gala Fairydean is a suitable replacement for that?
Yes ... we could do without the bigotry, the arrogance and a few other things that Rangers have historically carried with them, but I want to see football working towards stamping that stuff out .... sure getting rid of Rangers ( in any form ) would go a long way to ending all that, but I would rather we did it through education and zero tolerance.
My final part of this argument is this ....... Rangers have cheated for 20 years, not 120 years .... yes I fkng hate them ... always have and always will, but watching Hibs beat a club 10 times bigger than us, on the few times we are able to do it, gives me a hell of a lot more pleasure than beating Motherwell or Aberdeen, or dare I say it ..... Gala Fairydean ... God bless em.
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Originally Posted by BOVRIL
Akent Gala's goaly a few years back...Gary Loutit, Bit radge like.
So we should keep small teams that dae things properly out in favour of big teams that cheat just because they are big teams?Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
No, of course not. But the fact is that the legal entity notwithstanding, newhun is clearly a continuation of oldhun in on-the-pitch footballing terms. Same manager, some of the same players, probably same stadium. If it looks like the huns and smells like the huns, it probably the huns. Whether or not they have "their history" I dont care beyond taking the p!ss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
I agree with Bovril, they should be punished for what they have done and our entirely rational loathing of them as an institution shouldnt blind us to the sporting element. It is more fun to beat the Hun than it is to beat, say, Raith.
They are beneath contempt and deserve what should happen to them, but what should happen to them is div 3.
My point was really made in my post after the one you quoted when I pointed out that Dingwall, with a population one third of Gala's, are preparing their club for the SPL having achieved that status fair and square. The big club, on the other hand, are going to be lucky if their custodians avoid prison.
Had we followed your argument Ross County should never have been allowed to enter the SFL, never mind the SPL.
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Originally Posted by BOVRIL
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Originally Posted by BOVRIL
Errm. Think about that for a second.
I think that the jury is still out on how much cheating Rangers have been responsible for. And I don't think that it is restricted to the last 20 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
The dominance of Rangers and Celtic in Scottish football from the 1900s through to the Souness era cannot be explained other than by systematic corruption. Financial muscle was not really an issue until the pre-Souness era. Yet they monopolised most of the trophies bar a few spells of hegemony by other clubs - Hibs in the late 1940s early 1950s, Hearts in the late 1950s, Aberdeen and Dundee United in the early 1980s.
The situation saw Rangers and Celtic take every League Championship between 1904 and 1947 apart from Motherwell's win in 1931-32. I suspect that the wage rates were much the same for all clubs over this period. The only explanation is systematic corruption covering everything from referees to player registrations.
Over the same period in England, the trophies were shared around a lot more. The dominance of the big clubs only started after the end of the maximum wage. It only became marked in the Premier League era from the 1990s onwards.
In the 15 years, from 1971 to the start of the 'money' era in the 1986 season with souness/holmes and soon after minty moonbeams. When the start of spending money they never had began
The huns average attendance was 24,465.
During this time they won the league 3 times - r/u 3 times - third 4 times - 4th 3 times - 5th - 2 times.
They still won the european cup winners cup, 5 scottish cups, 6 league cups - which included 2 trebles.
In the same period Hibernians average was 10,352 (this included a season in the 1st div - if you excluded the attendance that season then the average for the other 14 seasons is 10,772)
During this time of course we won solitary 1 league cup, and a 1st division title because we were also relegated.
We finished the league 2nd x2 - 3rd x2 - 4th x2 - 5th x1 - 6th x2 - 7th x2 - 8th x2 - 10th(R) x1 & 1st div winners x1.
Despite that their atendances are not even 1.4 x our gates.
How did we ever survive!?!?!?
Any financial argument that insist der stickies must be back in the SPL asap is not based on them being in the league. It is only based on them having massive success and being absolutely dominant. They have only been able to manage this by cheating. ie spending money they never had, running up a bill, then running away from the said bill.
So if we are to find salvation in the 'orange pound' then we have to let them win with monotonous regularity.
The whole notion that we need their financial support for survival is based on the giant they became only because they were inflated with stolen hot air.
A pi$$ poor or even average rankers has no where near the same financial importance.
So do we roll over and let them tickle our bellies when they do get in the spl just so their supporters turn up.
Or do we take this opportunity to see exactly what we need to do to not have to rely on letting them win.
The welcome return of RangersTaxCase:
http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/...-penalty-19-2/
Good post reminding people about the way things were but this is now far removed from the combined strategy for "the good of the game".Quote:
Originally Posted by sadtom
Since the mid-nineties they authorities have encouraged a strategy of letting the old firm spearhead the Scottish game. They will become the big forces and bring success in Europe. This will have a knock-on/ trickle down effect for the other clubs...they will improve due to the financial benefits of the old-firm success and while they might not win trophies on a regular basis, they will be of a sufficient quality for the fans to stick with.
I'm sorry but it hasn't worked. Fans of the other clubs now realise that all the authorities are doing is trying to protect this model. It wouldn't suit the individuals in charge to really change football and distribute wealth around the clubs. They have the nerve to release documents telling people they are afraid of change yet the purpose of the document is to frighten clubs into thinking that any other way apart from the old, old-firm focused way is unacceptable!
Rangers are at the mercy of the rest of the clubs in Scotland, as are Celtic to an extent. I'm sure everyone would love a more "socialist" style of wealth distribution in the game which would result in more competition. Everyone apart from the old firm and the governing bodies of course!
The percentage of our population who attend football is one of the highest in Europe yet something like 70% of them go to see either one of two clubs! The crowds flock to Glasgow from cities and towns whose clubs are dying because people want to see purchased glory or revel in bigotry. The old firm and their media go mad at any concept of "unfair" wealth distribution but they should consider where their fans are from and who they are weakening by robbing their customer base. These issues should have been foreseen and addressed years ago and they are suddenly panicking now one of the behemoths has collapsed.
We're not a big enough country to artificially inflate two clubs and still expect others to maintain any level of competition. Apart from La Liga, how many other leagues have only two clubs who could ever dream about winning the top prize and the others have been ground down and conditioned to accept third place as top prize?
Good article but it's so frustrating as he is just stating the downright obvious yet we have the mainstream media, bar one channel 4 journalist and at times Jim Spence, continually spout pro Rangers propaganda.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
10/10Quote:
Originally Posted by sadtom
10.5/10Quote:
Originally Posted by peterdouglas
I have no problem with Ross County or any other club getting into the league. But this situation is different. If at the time the Staggies applied they had been up against a huge club and County had been let in over them we would all have thought the SFL had lost their minds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser1962
Yes in this instance the club concerned are a bunch of cheating barstewards, but it would be economic insanity to deny them entry to the SFL. Like it or not the SPL cubs have taken a huge financial hit over this.
To turn this on its head if it was any other club apart from rangers we wouldnt even be having this argument on this board.
No going tae quote both posts as they are long but :top marks tae sadtom & peterdouglas
We wouldnae be having it because any other club would have been punished properly by the authorities by now and kicked out and made tae start like Gretna in the east of Scotland league or equivalent. There's be nae bribery or blackmail threats tae let any other club back in at SFL 1, they wouldnae even get in at SFL 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
It appears, to me at least, that you are arguing that Rangers are "too big to fail". If it is "economic insanity" not to let them into the SFL why kick them out the SPL in the first place? It would be a bit like banning a drink driver except on a Friday because you need a lift home.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
Rangers, by failing to live by the same financial rules as the rest of us, have CHOSEN this route. They could have agreed to pay their creditors out the average £50m per year they bring in, but they didnt. it is worth remembering that if they had they allocated 50% of their income they would still have had more than three times the funds of any other club outwith Celtic, with their debts cleared in about 5 years. Realistically they could have set aside around 12.5% and continued but they CHOSE not to. Rather they have decided exactly what you are arguing, despite repeated attempts to leave the Scottish Football over the years, that Scottish football cannot survive without them and they have calculated that they can bump the taxman, the taxpayer, their fellow members, their european colleagues and local businesses and we will all accept this.
Remember that Rangers pushed Airdrie out of business for £30k. No one seemed to care about them. As Dan has already said there is precedent and that is Gretna and I dont recall anybody really fighting their corner, least of all Rangers.
They have gambled that we are are all buying their propoganda when I, for one, have zero sympathy for them. We will survive perfectly well so hell mend them.
Has the argument now become that newco shouldn't even get in to SFL3? The Newco gretna didn't get made to start in the East of Scotland league. Their lack of ground, support etc meant that they applied to the league that they were most suited to. Bovril may be drawing attention to some highly unpopular realities but there is merit in what he says. If a Newco rangers come up against the likes of Cove Rangers for entry to SFL3 then there is no doubt Newco Rangers would get the nod. The argument from many has that they should start at the bottom as they are a competely new team. We can't have it both ways by then claiming that they are the same team who cheated and shouldn't be considered for league membership on that basis. I would love it if they became totally extinct but given the massive size of their support that simply ain't gonna happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
Airdrie United were allowed to apply for the vacancy in SFL3 when Airdrieonians went bust. They lost the vote to Gretna and then bought out Clydebank instead. Gretna 2008 didn't apply for the vacancy in SFL3 caused by Gretna going bust, but they could have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
Excluding "new Rangers" from any SFL vote for a vacancy in SFL3 would be going beyond fair justice and precedent.
As I understand it a club applying for entry into the SFL is required to provide business plans and projections - that can only be so that the League can assess its suitability and compare it with other applicants. On that basis Sevco would easily gain admission ahead of Cove, Gala or any other applicant club.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
There is also a fixed entry point into the SFL, and that's the bottom division so no rules need to be broken.
SFL 3 is the only place they should be getting considered for and if they apply there I think there is little doubt they'll get it if they actually have a team tae put on the park. The behaviour of those running the game trying tae get them in anywhere else is a disgrace, they may be a new club with a new name but tae those running the game that is all the difference there is and it wouldnae be happening for any other club bar their ugly sister, had they gone down the pan, that's what's wrong here. Like you'd I'd like them tae disappear but I'm no daft enough tae think that will happen but they're a new club as per the rules that exist and they start at the bottom , end of IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
This is one of the reasons I think that SFL3 is even beyond them at the moment. There is so much doubt just now over players, stadium ownership, available funding, financial backers, liquidation, court cases, etc. that even if Sevco were permitted into the league I have my doubts that they could survive a full season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
Of course, all of these points would be overlooked because "it's Rangers" but if their application was on merit there is no way they'd get entry.
Remember that Gretna got priority over the long serving Airdrionians when they reapplied. At the time Airdrie had similar issues over stadium ownership, players and funding and they never received any special treatment.
Allowing Newco straight back into the SFL without the need for registration could effectively kill the game off for every other club, barr the OF.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
I already know a huge number of people who have stated that they won't be back now to watch their teams, regardless of the outcome now.
Rangers won't save the game, they will save it for 2 clubs, while the rest are left to rot because their fanbases have simply had enough of this s***e.
Football is nothing without its fans, no matter how much money is pumped into it.
The game is effectively dead.
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Originally Posted by jgl07
The man from Cowdenbeath - he say "Yes". :tsk tsk:
i believe that official bigot findlay has been in talks over the weekend with bomber 'ned' brown, wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the hunbrox boardroom is once again filled with the smell of pipe tobacco smoke :agree:
http://www.rangerspedia.org/images/e...Findlay_QC.JPG