Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

Thinking could be the squad has been paid for February so might as well play them tomorrow. I think the administrators only get 14 days to tear up contracts in which case Monday will be the day of the Cull.

If the players are all still there next week Duff and Phelps really are the new Duff and Gray. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by TQM

Players will go next week - least that's what's being said at Murray Park.

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Do you know if they will be able to sign for other clubs outwith the transfer window? Bit harsh on the individuals if they're not.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser1962

Do you know if they will be able to sign for other clubs outwith the transfer window? Bit harsh on the individuals if they're not.

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They'll be free agents so yes, they are free to sign for other clubs.

Note the word "free". :wink:

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Thinking could be the squad has been paid for February so might as well play them tomorrow. I think the administrators only get 14 days to tear up contracts in which case Monday will be the day of the Cull.

If the players are all still there next week Duff and Phelps really are the new Duff and Gray. :greengrin

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I didn't know this. Is that a general rule, or just for football clubs?

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

I didn't know this. Is that a general rule, or just for football clubs?

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I'm sure I read somewhere that if the players are not released in the first 14 days of administration their contracts are deemed to have been taken over by the administrators.

Of course I may have read this in the Daily ****** in which case who knows ?


I have heard from contacts down in the Big Smoke that there is serious amounts of client's cash missing from Pritchards the stockbroker where Whyte was secretary until very recently. I don't think we will see much of the Motherwell Billionaire for a while.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

I'm sure I read somewhere that if the players are not released in the first 14 days of administration their contracts are deemed to have been taken over by the administrators.

Of course I may have read this in the Daily ****** in which case who knows ?


I have heard from contacts down in the Big Smoke that there is serious amounts of client's cash missing from Pritchards the stockbroker where Whyte was secretary until very recently. I don't think we will see much of the Motherwell Billionaire for a while.

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.... is there an IOU for 12 Arsenal shares in there? :greengrin

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Originally Posted by H18SVG

Are you certain players will go next week or are you certain that is what is being said at Murray Park?
Do you know who at Murray Park is saying players will go next week?
Is the person a player or other member of staff, a supporter of rangers, a supporter of another club or someone waiting for a bus?h

Or.....




Source?

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From a pal's pal's son - who is a u/19. Staff and players expecting to be let go.

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Originally Posted by Onion

Administrators have been in the club for almost 2 weeks and yet not one Rangers player have been laid off?

The first role of the Admins, after securing the assets of the company, is to stop the company haemoraging money. In any other company, staff would have been pushed out the door within a day or two of the Admins walking in, yet these Admins appear happy for the club to continue paying high salaries with other people's money (i.e. our's/HMRC's). WTF is going on ?

This whole affair raises some serious questions about the rest of the pre-split games and validity if any games involving Rangers of Celtic from now on. Last week, Rangers were still playing for the title and had a full (overpaid) squad. In a few days time, they will be depleted and deflated, and any teams playing them now will have a clear advantage over those that had to play them pre-Administration.

This 10 point deduction might be fine for the Livi's and Gretna's, but doesn't come close to addressing the issues of a top 2 club "cheating".

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Slightly disagree on this.

The admins have moved relatively quickly, IMO, in what they have done. Finding the missing £24m, ensuring a big pay day last week and (and this is crucial for me) establishing the actual amount of the HMRC debt. They have also been reviewing all departments at RFC from a staffing point of view.

Now that they know just how much money and debt they have, they can make sensible cuts to the staff.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Slightly disagree on this.

The admins have moved relatively quickly, IMO, in what they have done. Finding the missing £24m, ensuring a big pay day last week and (and this is crucial for me) establishing the actual amount of the HMRC debt. They have also been reviewing all departments at RFC from a staffing point of view.

Now that they know just how much money and debt they have, they can make sensible cuts to the staff.

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This sounds reasonable enough to me as they (players) would have been paid this months wages.

Fair to say that the next few days will be crucial in getting the staff reduced to a manageable level ....

Roll on the next episode :greengrin

https://www.saverangers.com/#tab_1

Anyone?.....

:tumble:

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Originally Posted by wee_hibee

https://www.saverangers.com/#tab_1

Anyone?.....

:tumble:

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Know a lot of Celtic supporters who are in for a few hundred thousand.....................

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Originally Posted by wee_hibee

https://www.saverangers.com/#tab_1

Anyone?.....

:tumble:

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You know, for a couple of minutes, I thought that said scavengers.com :greengrin

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Originally Posted by jonty

You know, for a couple of minutes, I thought that said scavengers.com :greengrin

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:greengrin

I thought it said "scroungers". :wink:

JJB are doing Buy 1 get 1 free Rangers top's

http://www.jjbsports...setFilters=true

Might become a bit of collectors item soon!
:faf:

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scot...uncovered.html

Strathclyde police have said they have been assured they will receive their money for policing
next home ensuring it will go ahead.
Surely that money should go to the likes of Dunfermline and Dundee Utd as they are owed that
for something that has already taken place as opposed to something that has yet to happen.

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Originally Posted by AustinHibee

Strathclyde police have said they have been assured they will receive their money for policing
next home ensuring it will go ahead.
Surely that money should go to the likes of Dunfermline and Dundee Utd as they are owed that
for something that has already taken place as opposed to something that has yet to happen.

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SP are crucial to the game going ahead. If it doesn't, then there is less chance of those clubs getting their money than if it does.

If Craig Whyte was found to have run off with cash from Ticketus would that smell a lot like Long Firm Fraud? I am no accountant but my understanding of Long Firm Fraud is where a company builds up trust with a supplier over a period of time them stings them for a shed load of goods (or perhaps a loan) and disappears with those goods. Not sure that this is happening in this case but I thought for a moment I smelled a bit of a whiff in the air :confused:

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Originally Posted by CentreLine

If Craig Whyte was found to have run off with cash from Ticketus would that smell a lot like Long Firm Fraud? I am no accountant but my understanding of Long Firm Fraud is where a company builds up trust with a supplier over a period of time them stings them for a shed load of goods (or perhaps a loan) and disappears with those goods. Not sure that this is happening in this case but I thought for a moment I smelled a bit of a whiff in the air :confused:

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I'm still unconvinced about the criminality in that. He was owed £18m by RFC. His defence would be that the £24m was payment for that, "plus a wee bit for masel, yer honour " :greengrin

The extra £6m could be the crux, though. Whilst loans to directors of that amount are technically illegal, I can't remember seeing anybody prosecuted for it. In most cases, they are dealt with in retrospect by awarding dividends or bonuses. Also, we dont know whether CW repaid the £6m to RFC after he got the Ticketus money

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

I'm still unconvinced about the criminality in that. He was owed £18m by RFC. His defence would be that the £24m was payment for that, "plus a wee bit for masel, yer honour " :greengrin

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Good point :agree:

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

I'm still unconvinced about the criminality in that. He was owed £18m by RFC. His defence would be that the £24m was payment for that, "plus a wee bit for masel, yer honour " :greengrin

The extra £6m could be the crux, though. Whilst loans to directors of that amount are technically illegal, I can't remember seeing anybody prosecuted for it. In most cases, they are dealt with in retrospect by awarding dividends or bonuses. Also, we dont know whether CW repaid the £6m to RFC after he got the Ticketus money

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But surely £4m of that money was VAT?

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Originally Posted by WindyMiller

But surely £4m of that money was VAT?

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Not sure of your point.

The £4m VAT element is payable by RFC, no matter what. If they haven't had any of the £24m from Ticketus, that means they are doubly stuffed. :greengrin

(actually, I am sure I read somewhere that they had already paid that VAT.)

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Not sure of your point.

The £4m VAT element is payable by RFC, no matter what. If they haven't had any of the £24m from Ticketus, that means they are doubly stuffed. :greengrin

(actually, I am sure I read somewhere that they had already paid that VAT.)

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I think I read that the HMRC took the funds they had frozen in RFC's bank account to settle the " small tax case ", which Whyte subsequently appealed, and that was used to pay towards the outstanding VAT.

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Originally Posted by H18SVG

Ally of the McCoist has said that finishing second in the league is worth £900k more than finishing 3rd which means they should keeptheir players in order to achieve that.
Could that be an own goal? the administrators can now calculate how much savings can be made by releasing players against a £900k target which may or may not be achieved with his current squad.

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I'd be surprised if insolvency law allowed administrators to take a punt on what are effectively funds that belong to creditors.

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Originally Posted by H18SVG

Ally of the McCoist has said that finishing second in the league is worth £900k more than finishing 3rd which means they should keeptheir players in order to achieve that.
Could that be an own goal? the administrators can now calculate how much savings can be made by releasing players against a £900k target which may or may not be achieved with his current squad.

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But why then do every other club that enter administration start with large scale lay-offs? Each of those clubs would earn more money by keeping expensive good players. Not an expert in such matters, but it just seems wrong that Rangers are in administration, but are able to keep all their players, and so able to continue as normal.

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Originally Posted by hibbytam

But why then do every other club that enter administration start with large scale lay-offs? Each of those clubs would earn more money by keeping expensive good players. Not an expert in such matters, but it just seems wrong that Rangers are in administration, but are able to keep all their players, and so able to continue as normal.

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Administrtion is essentially a means to keep the business running as a going concern if possible - it usually involves reducing headcount in a business, but doesnt always. The argument I'm guessing is that the on an ongoing trading basis, Rangers can meet their liabilities if not their historic debt. If you think of it as if it was manufacturing business - a company still needs to make stuff, and if they lay of their best machine operators they can't meet orders for the same price or lead-time that a competitor can, therefore their future ability to trade out of a administration is reduced. I'm guessing the same type of consideration is in the mind of the administrators - if they lay of the their best players, their customers will not by their product, and the income reduction will fall below that which would be saved by the salary saving.

That said, the debt (not counting the BTC) they have does need to be paid off, so if some reduction in staffing isnt made I'd be very, very surprised.

They are losing nearly a million pound a month without dealing with their historic debt to the taxman. If the administrator does not make cuts to wipe out this shortfall then they are not doing their job. If they can't prove to creditors that rangers can be run at a profit and the debt repaid then they have no chance of a CVA.
I think you will see mass lay offs this week, probably tues.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

They are losing nearly a million pound a month without dealing with their historic debt to the taxman. If the administrator does not make cuts to wipe out this shortfall then they are not doing their job. If they can't prove to creditors that rangers can be run at a profit and the debt repaid then they have no chance of a CVA.
I think you will see mass lay offs this week, probably tues.

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I would think so. I do feel for those employees who are going to lose their jobs; those who do the day to day work that we don't see. It's going to hit families hard at a time when the jobs market is very difficult. Any players released will be fine, but others will suffer hardship. For all the fun I get from seeing the Huns in such a mess, there will be innocent casualties.

There is no place at this day in age for a team who promotes and is based sectarian hatred. Their culture and songs are not a welcome part of the football landscape. I would extend my statement to any other clubs.

If Rangers die away I am okay with that. If they are forced to pay thier taxes they most probably will die away. This will be progress.

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Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba

I would think so. I do feel for those employees who are going to lose their jobs; those who do the day to day work that we don't see. It's going to hit families hard at a time when the jobs market is very difficult. Any players released will be fine, but others will suffer hardship. For all the fun I get from seeing the Huns in such a mess, there will be innocent casualties.

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And that is the real sad thing about this mess.

Having said that, I can't wait for RFC to be told that what they were/are doing is wrong, and they must pay the price for what amounts to cheating :agree: Call it what you will...