Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

http://www.hibs.net/images/hibsnet/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Cropley10 http://www.hibs.net/images/hibsnet/b...post-right.png
Correct decision by SPL.

However WHEN insolvency is confirmed then they will start next season -15 points.

They will then have a season of real frustration and almost certainly go down.

They will then have to get out of SFL1 at the same time as the Hun.

Death by a thousand cuts.

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Originally Posted by Hermit Crab

You are if course assuming der Hun will win division 2

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And what about the vote on a playoff, sure that will be agreed, so they only need to get 2nd to have a chance to come back up!!!

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Originally Posted by MacBean

The BBC quotes seem to point that they have ruled that if UBIG do go under then Hearts will suffer - sorry cant post a link.

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That's the info I have (I posted about it the other day iirc)

The SPL is definitely of the opinion that UBIG is the parent company. Hearts can argue they are self sufficient til they are blue in the face, it won't matter because a) the rule doesn't say "unless your self sufficient" and b) the SPL know they haven't been for as long as they claim.

One thing the BBC article does seem to indicate is that there is no dispute that UBIG is considered to be their parent company.

So when (not if) UBIG do officially enter into insolvency then they will have no option but to dock them 15 points for the start of next season and it is likely they will lose Tynie as well.

TBH I think this was the best outcome today as the Yams (for some reason) think this is cause to celebrate, next season is going to be sooo much fun. :lolyam::yamlaugh::jamboclow


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22599730

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

That's the info I have (I posted about it the other day iirc)

The SPL is definitely of the opinion that UBIG is the parent company. Hearts can argue they are self sufficient til they are blue in the face, it won't matter because a) the rule doesn't say "unless your self sufficient" and b) the SPL know they haven't been for as long as they claim.

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c) the parent company is the parent company, irrespective of whether the club owned by them is 'self sufficient'.

Bake sales, empty share offers and empty piggy banks, raffles and Skacel pulling pints aside, Hearts are not self sufficient. They can barely pay the wages/suppliers and the tax man. And now we're into the closed season...

All thats happened today is the prisoner has appealed his conviction. The death penalty still stands but he has an appeal in to the governor.

The family of the victims are making their way to watch him be strapped to the chair.

Someone will switch it on soon. :greengrin

I'm quite pleased with this decision. They will be certs for the drop next season with or without a points deduction and they will have Sevco to contend with in the first division. This "great escape" has only increasd the dislike for them amongst those in Scottish football. The past will come back to bite them.:fenlon

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Originally Posted by GlenrothesHibee

I'm quite pleased with this decision. They will be certs for the drop next season with or without a points deduction and they will have Sevco to contend with in the first division. This "great escape" has only increasd the dislike for them amongst those in Scottish football. The past will come back to bite them.:fenlon

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Assuming they get that far, there will be play off places come 2014/2015 so Rankers winning that league might not end their promotion hopes. But this is all hypothetical, and under the assumption they survive the next few months.

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

Hearts are still on death row, they just haven't gotten to the chair yet.

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Quite right, its not time to start chucking the toys out the pram yet.

I won't quote all the posts re notice of intent and Jamie Borthwick's tweets etc, but from what I can see Jamie's points are out of date.

The most relevant part of the rules IMO can be found in the definitions section under Insolvency Event s(g)

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Insolvency event means in respect of a Club:-

ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board

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That's my bold, and the Group Company rule extends the provision to include UBIG in this case. The rules were updated on 3 December 2012.

I can't for the life of me see how a declaration of insolvency fails to fall into the 'forming an intention' box, but the fact that they've taken this approach rather than the distinction between HoMFC and UBIG would suggest that they consider UBIG to fall into the Group Company category and the points deduction will occur when UBIG are declared insolvent by a Lithuanian court. I have to assume they wouldn't be so incompetent or negligent that they didn't consider this aspect at their meeting, so a 15 point deduction next season will be inevitable.

It's arguably funnier to see the rootin-tootin weirdos blast their horns and paint each others faces (insert joke here) whilst we know full well that the dodgy house of cards is ready to come tumbling down any day soon.

It'll make their demise all the better. They really just don't get it do they? It's almost cruel to find joy at the maxed out ostriches.

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Originally Posted by Caversham Green

I won't quote all the posts re notice of intent and Jamie Borthwick's tweets etc, but from what I can see Jamie's points are out of date.

The most relevant part of the rules IMO can be found in the definitions section under Insolvency Event s(g)



That's my bold, and the Group Company rule extends the provision to include UBIG in this case. The rules were updated on 3 December 2012.

I can't for the life of me see how a declaration of insolvency fails to fall into the 'forming an intention' box, but the fact that they've taken this approach rather than the distinction between HoMFC and UBIG would suggest that they consider UBIG to fall into the Group Company category and the points deduction will occur when UBIG are declared insolvent by a Lithuanian court. I have to assume they wouldn't be so incompetent or negligent that they didn't consider this aspect at their meeting, so a 15 point deduction next season will be inevitable.

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Would the court "backdate" the insolvency? What I mean is would they rubberstamp the insolvency from the 16th? The wording on the SPL Statement reads as if they could revisit their decision on new evidence.

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Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

All thats happened today is the prisoner has appealed his conviction. The death penalty still stands but he has an appeal in to the governor.

The family of the victims are making their way to watch him be strapped to the chair.

Someone will switch it on soon. :greengrin

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:agree: They've jumped out of the way of a cyclist into the path of a 40-ton truck.

If one of them realises that if they mobilise the 400,000 strong troops into action they could paint a lot of faces and bake a lot of cakes.

That could just be enough to save UBIG from insolvency.

We'll no be laughing then! :panic:

To be honest now the dust is settling, I enjoyed that last derby so much that I'm looking forward to another at tynie! Things have become much more fun now that they are progressively losing each and every cheat that they used to have. They made it all the more welcoming in that derby by sitting down nice and quiet while we had good old sing and dance, if it wasn't for it being the pbs, one might even say it was a pleasant afternoon.

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Originally Posted by Pedantic_Hibee

It's arguably funnier to see the rootin-tootin weirdos blast their horns and paint each others faces (insert joke here) whilst we know full well that the dodgy house of cards is ready to come tumbling down any day soon.

It'll make their demise all the better. They really just don't get it do they? It's almost cruel to find joy at the maxed out ostriches.

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I blame Petrie.

How many more celebrations are we going to miss out on - I really wanted to drive down Easter Road today and blast the car horn to celebrate the fact that we haven't been docked points,relegated or punished for going bust.

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Originally Posted by greenlex

Would the court "backdate" the insolvency? What I mean is would they rubberstamp the insolvency from the 16th? The wording on the SPL Statement reads as if they could revisit their decision on new evidence.

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I don't think so. The court will probably date their decision on the day they make it and the fact that the SPL have actually given a decision rather than deferring it suggests it's not reversible.

I haven't actually read the SPL statement yet, but I feel if they had doubts they would have adjourned rather than judged.

Heres Ralph Topping explaining it himself.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottis...investigation/

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

Tell us what they had with their cuppas.

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Yammy Dodgers

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

Heres Ralph Topping explaining it himself.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottis...investigation/

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Explains it quite well I think, doesn't rule out a points deduction for "last" season either. Doesn't seem to be under any illusions that the rule applies to Hearts' situation, just they don't feel the rule has been broken...yet

Kudos to Ralph for giving in interview I reckon

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Originally Posted by Caversham Green

I don't think so. The court will probably date their decision on the day they make it and the fact that the SPL have actually given a decision rather than deferring it suggests it's not reversible.

I haven't actually read the SPL statement yet, but I feel if they had doubts they would have adjourned rather than judged.

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The decision is quite clear that there was no insolvency in 2012/13. Nothing to say that the insolvency proceedings against UBIG will not result in punishment for hearts in 2013/14 when the insolvency procedures have been taken a few stages further by Ubig to a point where they can say, without challenge, that it constitutes an insolvency event and can apply the points deduction merited without legal challenges etc.

The SPL applying the penalty now would seal their relegation and they would never hear the end of it. Letting them stay in the SPL next season and applying a 15 point deduction nice and early means that Hearts will only have themselves to blame if they are unable to keep themselves in the league over the course of a season. It also keeps one of the biggest clubs and, the biggest matches in the SPL for next season while they are scrabbling for a sponsor for the league for next year.

They are not out of the woods yet , it's only a matter of time until the plug is pulled. Changed days from a year ago when they were all cheering their cheating cup win to this year when they cheated relegation by a baw hair !.

Love this comment from a random Yam on the BBC story:

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Club representatives made this sensible decision about a Club that has been solvent all season.

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Here's some solvency for you, from early November 2012:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20241385

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The Edinburgh club issued a plea for "emergency backing" from supporters to avoid the prospect of administration.

"This isn't a bluff, this isn't scaremongering, this is reality," read a statement from Hearts.

"Without the support of fans there is a real risk that Hearts could possibly play its last game on 17 November."

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Nonetheless, I'm not too displeased with today's decision. The SPL have clearly passed the buck, but I can understand why they are not wanting to get involved in this mucky situation until it's unavoidable.

BBC Sport sound just used the #alliscomplex to describe Yams situation. Someone should have copyrighted that.....

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Originally Posted by Caversham Green

I don't think so. The court will probably date their decision on the day they make it and the fact that the SPL have actually given a decision rather than deferring it suggests it's not reversible.

I haven't actually read the SPL statement yet, but I feel if they had doubts they would have adjourned rather than judged.

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Here is the extract that I am alluding to.
Currently available being the thing that catches the eye.


"The board are not satisfied, on the basis of information currently available to it, that an insolvency event (as defined by SPL rules) occurred in respect of UBIG during season 2012-2013."

http://www.baltic-course.com/eng/finances/?doc=75013

Read it. From today.

If Hearts were to try and put themselves into administration once UBIG go under, could UBIG or UKIOs administrator say " woah, no ye dont " and liquidate them forthwith?

Because that would be really, really funny.

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Originally Posted by GlenrothesHibee

I'm quite pleased with this decision. They will be certs for the drop next season with or without a points deduction and they will have Sevco to contend with in the first division. This "great escape" has only increasd the dislike for them amongst those in Scottish football. The past will come back to bite them.:fenlon

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Don't follow that logic. IMHO the -15 will just make them more determined than ever and I think they could easily make that up against the weaker teams. Hearts have a great record when up against it.

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Originally Posted by Leishy1995

http://www.baltic-course.com/eng/finances/?doc=75013

Read it. From today.

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So it's been confirmed that an administrator has been appointed yet there isn't enough evidence to declare an insolvency event?

#alliscorrupt, never mind bloody complex...

Not a surprising decision as far as I can see.

In any case any sanction the SPL applied to the Yams today would just be a side show to the main event.

As far as I can see they have no money, have a real chance of losing their stadium and still have to find £15,000,000 in the next 2 years over and above the cost of paying players and running the club.

When we went bust in the 90s STF managed to buy the actual club, including the stadium, leaving the parent company with the debt. I have seen nothing to suggest that the Yams have that option. Or even if they do, it doesnt seem that a white knight is anywhere on the horizon who has the funds to do that.

Would any administrator be willing to sell the PBS to a third party for less than the land it sits on is worth? ... unlikely I would think, so somebody would have to come up with a minimum of £5,000,000 ( I presume ) and thats before any investment in the actual playing side or repairs to the stadium, which lets face it badly needs a new main stand sooner rather than later.

No ............. This is like getting the first question right on who wants to be a millionaire and thinking you will make it all the way to the jackpot as a result.

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Originally Posted by MyJo

The decision is quite clear that there was no insolvency in 2012/13. Nothing to say that the insolvency proceedings against UBIG will not result in punishment for hearts in 2013/14 when the insolvency procedures have been taken a few stages further by Ubig to a point where they can say, without challenge, that it constitutes an insolvency event and can apply the points deduction merited without legal challenges etc.

The SPL applying the penalty now would seal their relegation and they would never hear the end of it. Letting them stay in the SPL next season and applying a 15 point deduction nice and early means that Hearts will only have themselves to blame if they are unable to keep themselves in the league over the course of a season. It also keeps one of the biggest clubs and, the biggest matches in the SPL for next season while they are scrabbling for a sponsor for the league for next year.

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From villains to media darlings.. the media will be routing for them next season if they get docked points and manage to stay in business.