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Originally Posted by RyeSloan
But then what would certain folk moan about, even folk that have no interest in applying for the post or cant apply for the post have been having a pop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
But then what would certain folk moan about, even folk that have no interest in applying for the post or cant apply for the post have been having a pop
Thats because there is no problem. Just a bunch of people moaning about something that has zero impact on their day to day lives. There will be someone out there that will look at that role and think, yeah that works for me. Whether it’s someone older on the wind down or a young guy or girl recently qualified that’ll use it as a stepping stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
I like football.
Sorry but I don't understand why this ''someone recently qualified'' line keeps being repeated. An electrician just out their time is not an approved electrician. There is a difference. They will not nessessarily have their IPAF or PASMA as well. An older guy winding down would've need to have gone through at least 4 different courses in the previous 4 years to be qualified for this. This job requires someone really at the top of their game, right up to date on everything, likely just been working on big sites where PASMA and IPAF are required.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lendo
What does it really matter? You don’t think Hibs are offering a fair wage, that’s fine, don’t apply for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
If someone who does have the qualifications and wants to apply then ultimately that’s up to them. If nobody wants the job at that level of pay then Hibs will have to re-advertise and offer more.
Nobody is being disadvantaged, nobody is being taken advantage of, it’s a job that’s an option for anyone who wants to go for it.
I agree. I've already said all the things you've just said. None of them make this the going rate for a person with those qualifications. Hibs are trying to get someone for less than they are worth elswhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by easty
Why are you so upset about this?Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
It seems people can’t make a distinction between a spark working on short term contracts via agencies and a spark who has a full time permanent contract. My pal works as a spark for a large utilities supplier. The salary is well under £30,000/ year. Yes, there is no doubt decent money to be working on sites, but some people prefer a secure job, access to a pension and decent holidays and sick pay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lendo
You get the facts pointing out to you, which contradict your reasons for this being a lower wage, and this is what you reply with? I'm not upset. I just cannot understand why people are trying to justify this from Hibs. Hibs are trying to fill what is, lets face it, an important position in the operations team, with a wage much lower than the average for that position. All the facts point to this? Why is it so difficult to accept. Absolute RAGE on here if this happens for a first team player, but the ''we're not a charity'' line comes out when its a stadium operations position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lendo
Any SJIB registered company, big or small, gives all of those things. There is no insecurity working for a big company who do big sites.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfurryhibby
The work they do is a world away. As I say dozens of tradesmen at my work get paid similar to what hibs are offering and their is always a queue for the jobs. They say they get paid well for what they actually do and fair play to them. Quality of life is worth thousandsQuote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
It's not world's away.. Plenty of big sjib companies do maintenance work on things like uni buildings, pub chains, estate agents etc. I know guys who daily do all the things Hibs are wanting here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
It's a subjective thing if someone wants this job of course. I hope someone takes it and does a great job. It is still well under the average wage for someone with those qualifications.
The thread title should be positive, but the last few days it has all been folks arguing over the wages offered for tradesmen. Is there seriously nothing positive to say about how the club are progressing, or is everything negative.
Remember the old saying, if you have nothing good to say, say nothing!
Hibs. Net, where you must unconditionally blow smoke up the clubs arse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
I don't suddenly hate Hibs. The facts show they are offering a very low wage for what they are wanting. That's it. I'm still going to the match today.
And if you don't, you must unconditionally criticise the club for everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Hibs wouldn't have advertised the job at that salary if they didn't think there would be interest. You've explained why you think a higher salary should be appropriate, but you don't need to keep explaining it over and over.
Our sponsorship deals certainly seem to have expanded quite a bit and by the sounds of it, in Rons interview, we are just beginning to increase our revenue. Don’t think I’ve ever felt so positive about the direction in which our club is going, exciting times being a Hibby just now 💚
I very rarely say a bad word about Hibs on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyrie
If people continue to reply to me talking about it, I'll continue to reply to them. That's all that's happening here
The salaries are very poor. No doubting that. You get what you pay for though.
Oscar Wilde was right :wink:
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What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
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Today, many of us confuse the meaning of the word “value” with the word “price”. Or maybe the word “cost.” However such terms mean very different things. Especially in business.
Speak to a group of marketing people (even if it may be something I wouldn’t wish my worst enemy). Ask them what, in their opinion, would be the criteria for something to be perceived by potential buyers as having a high “value for money” rating.
I’d bet most of them would tell you that the product in question needs to either be either:
- Cheaper than the competition’s offering
- Offering “more” than the competition
Of course in the real world the perception of what constitutes “value” is more subtle, and a lot more subjective. Just by pricing your widgets 25% cheaper than the ones sold by the guy down the street doesn’t mean that everyone’s going to buy your widgets and no-one’s going to buy his.
Why not? Because some customers will have their own rationale why they will continue buy from him and not from you. Perhaps some people value the fact he offers online ordering, or free delivery. Perhaps he puts his widgets in a nicer-looking package than yours.
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Price is not the same as value
Whatever the reason, some buyers prefer to buy from him, even if he’s more expensive than you. The reason doesn’t have to make sense to you, as long as it makes sense to them. They’re buying for reasons other just just price. They see ‘value’, over and above what is being sold.
The fact is, nobody would buy any product or service – at whatever price it was sold at, from whatever business – if they didn’t see the ‘value’ being demonstrated as part of the transaction. Price may be one thing, but value is everything.
Value has little to do with price. A corkscrew is inexpensive to buy, but if you’re trying to get into a bottle of wine it has immense value. Similarly just because something costs more than its peers doesn’t mean it’s poor value. If it did, nobody would buy an Apple computer, or a BMW automobile, or an IWC watch. Every brand that exists today has ‘value’ to someone. Otherwise the brand would not exist.
The only reason that a product or service absolutely needs to be cheaper, or offer more for less, is when it is deemed to be a commodity. An item can be considered a commodity when it has no other inherent communicable “value” that its market would pay for, other than its price in relation to the competition.
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Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.
For example, I don’t care what brand of paperclips I buy. I’m guessing you probably don’t care much either. If I’m in the market to buy paperclips, I’m simply looking for the best deal. If you make paperclips and want me to buy from you, you need to communicate your value. You need to show me how your paperclips are ‘better’ than the ones I’d otherwise buy. If you can’t, then you need to price them cheaper if you’re to get my business.
But the problem with selling a commodity is that there’s always someone, somewhere, who’s prepared to sell it cheaper. With price as your biggest differentiator, you’re in a race to the bottom.
Supermarkets, for example, often work on the loss-leader principle. They’ll sell daily staples, such as milk or bread, for less than it costs to buy them. The goal is to use such low pricing as an enticement to get more customers through the door. Once they’re in, the supermarket is gambling on these customers buying other stuff while they’re in the store. The profits made for the other items offsets the losses made on the bread and milk, evening-out the profit-per-customer statistics.
All you're doing is repeating yourself and dragging this out. if people can't understand what you explained the first dozen times, why waste your time posting it the next dozen?Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
And on that note, I'm out.
Another thread ruined by the usual suspect.
Why are they continuing to argue something they don't understand then? About 15 people have said the same as me on this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyrie
Another post off topic. Please stop breaking the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedantic_Hibee
Why does everything have to be framed as positive v negative?
I think it's been a fairly interesting discussion and I would say I've learned a lot from it. Admittedly it has suffered from the online phenomenon that sees the requirement to have the last word ensure it becomes endlessly cyclical but that's a given now.
I haven't seen many people be unduly critical of the club, and of those who have questioned the salary at least a couple are usually relentlessly positive. Likewise I haven't see many blindly defend the club either.
As I said earlier in the thread I'm not much of a fan of the 'if you don' t like the salary, don't apply for the job' argument. It stifles genuine conversation around what is a real living wage, paints such concerns as an individual issue rather than a societal one and allows the chronic exploitative underpayment of certain sectors, care as one example, to continue. Equally though I stand by the point that that doesn't apply in this instance. A spark that has all the qualifications Hibs want could command a higher wage elsewhere if they wanted it, of course that may require making other sacrifices though. If they are applying for the job it is because they want to rather than out of desperation as can be the case in other sectors with horrendous wages on offer. That seems fair enough to me.
I think it might be the case that there are 2 or 3 different arguments getting conflated on this thread and that always spells trouble.
Then it's a personal decision for an individual to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Absolutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lago
Could it be Hibs are banking on a fan wanting to work for the club they will accept a lower salary?
I know personally I'd probably accept being paid a bit less if it meant working for Hibs.
I would play for HIBS for nothing 😂
Are we not trying to progress rather than regress? 😉Quote:
Originally Posted by BILLYHIBS
Nah, you're ok. But thanks. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by BILLYHIBS
FWIW the Sales Ledger clerk in finance is more than competitive, Royal College of Surgeons was £19.5k in 2019 when I applied, so £22k starting is excellent. If I wasn't so happy in my current role (not the RCS job), I'd be applying for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by .Sean.