Commons yes or no?

No brainer for me

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Originally Posted by Superfuddyhibby

Aye, Commons was a fairly gifted player in the SPL. However, he has been inactive for a significant amount of time and this is the crucial part. This is a guy who is 33 and who has barely kicked a ball for nearly a year by the time January comes around.

No matter how good he once was, he will still need to be fit enough to compete and at our level there is no shortage of effort and endeavour from the opposition. Once the legs have gone that is usually the end for players and whilst our coaches will no doubt consider this, will they really have that much opportunity to assess him?

Holt pefectly illustrates the point above. Once a player capable of scoring in the EPL, he has hardly struck fear into defences in the Scottish second tier, despite a decent pedigree.

The thing is that we are in a battle with a side who are on the up and up. Failure to be promoted would be a disaster and so far Lennon and his signings have not convinced in my book. This is arguably one of the most important windows ever for us. We have to get it right. I would be much more optimistic if we had the likes of Henderson and GMS coming in from Celtic.

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I wouldn't. Henderson is a great young player that played really well for us last season. But at the end of the day he was still part of a team that failed to get promoted, and finished third in the Championship. He didn't score many goals either. If you think Commons is a gamble, then so is GMS in my opinion. The majority of times he's played for Celtic he's not performed. Great player for DU, but that was a wee while ago now. It'd be great if we got even 1 of these players; it would be a brilliant coup by Lennon, but I certainly wouldn't be any more optimistic if we signed one instead of the other.

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Originally Posted by scott_b_

If Lennon, his coaches and our fitness staff see him as fit enough and an asset to the team thats good enough for me. If they don't then thats also good enough for me.

A helluva lot of fitness experts on this forum who probably can't run the length of themselves :yawn2::rotflmao:

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So you are not allowed a comment unless you are an expert? That's a new one. Can you say what you are an expert in so that I can look back over your posts and consider them as facts?

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Originally Posted by Superfuddyhibby

Aye, Commons was a fairly gifted player in the SPL. However, he has been inactive for a significant amount of time and this is the crucial part. This is a guy who is 33 and who has barely kicked a ball for nearly a year by the time January comes around.

No matter how good he once was, he will still need to be fit enough to compete and at our level there is no shortage of effort and endeavour from the opposition. Once the legs have gone that is usually the end for players and whilst our coaches will no doubt consider this, will they really have that much opportunity to assess him?

Holt pefectly illustrates the point above. Once a player capable of scoring in the EPL, he has hardly struck fear into defences in the Scottish second tier, despite a decent pedigree.

The thing is that we are in a battle with a side who are on the up and up. Failure to be promoted would be a disaster and so far Lennon and his signings have not convinced in my book. This is arguably one of the most important windows ever for us. We have to get it right. I would be much more optimistic if we had the likes of Henderson and GMS coming in from Celtic.

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If NL's signings don't convince you then we're doomed whatever happens in January.:confused:

Happily I don't share your views so am not getting depressed. Lennon, better than anyone, is in a good position to guage what kind of shape Commons is in before offering him a contract.

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Originally Posted by jacomo

This is not a conversation about whether Commons was a good player. It's about whether he is right for us, in 2017, and there is legitimate debate about that given how little football he has played in the past year. Don't be such a bore.

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Class is permanent and if, as the man says, Lennon et al judge his fitness to be up to scratch then there's no debate to be had there either.

Given what we know he is capable of from a technical POV, I'm willing to trust those more qualified and in the know than any of us on the fitness point.

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Originally Posted by Lennon's Lip

A fit Kris Commons then yes!

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Agreed.

Anyone seen him recently? He's always looked like he's struggled with his weight!

I'd like to see a fit Chris Commons play behind a fit Grant Holt, i wonder what odds the bookies would give me on that ever happening?

Can't understand the logic why anyone wouldn't want Commons at ER...

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Originally Posted by Baader

Can't understand the logic why anyone wouldn't want Commons at ER...

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I agree however, it depends on the deal. There is quiet rumblings sounding out that we could see Commons and Henderson coming to us in Jan with John McGinn going the other way at the season end. I don't think that would be good business as, if we get promoted then I don't think Commons will be any good to us. Of course this is just all hearsay, but Commons with nothing else but Commons then YES.

I couldn't understand him not getting a game under Delia. He was clearly one of the best players at the club.

I'd love to see him at Hibs.

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Originally Posted by Baader

Can't understand the logic why anyone wouldn't want Commons at ER...

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Perhaps you'd be wise to read through this thread then, but from what i have read some folk are just a little worried about the amount of time he's not played any football matches?

I think, although not 100% sure, that this is what they are basing their opinions on? :wink:

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Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

I cant make a reasoned view on this, as i dont know how fit he is? :confused:

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Spot on. But as he hasn't played since April and he's 33 years old it would be pretty surprising if this is a good idea for us.

It's seems we have a hell of a lot of Celtc fitness coaches here in .net who all know that Commons is unfit and past it at 33. He's not played for them for a long time because Rodgers doesnae fancy him and he was injured at the end of delias reign. We all assume that celtc are so unprofessional that they'd let a squad player become unfit. As far as I am aware he still trains with the 1st team and will probably be workin hard to keep fit. He knows his time at celtc is up so why would a player in that situation let himself go so much that it would prevent other teams even thinking of taking him on.
Personally I will put my trust in the footballing department at ER who, if this is a genuine goer will assess Commons and judge wether he is a decent addition to the squad. If he's even half the player he was at celtc, even if no match fit, would make an impact in this league. He's got talent in bucket loads and that doesn't disappear over the space of 9 months.

80 goals from 200 odd games for celtic from the midfield?, most scored from outside the box if hes half as good as he once was he IMO would be an outstanding addition to the squad till the summer( he,d be going all out to prove a lot of people wrong thinking he,s finished, and putting himself in the shop window for the summer)IMHO if hibs get commons in january he,d get 10 plus goals bye end of season and hibs would be clear champions........:agree:

I don't get why he's out of favour at Celtic; he's always looked a really good player. Definitely sign him if possible.

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Originally Posted by vince1973

It's seems we have a hell of a lot of Celtc fitness coaches here in .net who all know that Commons is unfit and past it at 33. He's not played for them for a long time because Rodgers doesnae fancy him and he was injured at the end of delias reign. We all assume that celtc are so unprofessional that they'd let a squad player become unfit. As far as I am aware he still trains with the 1st team and will probably be workin hard to keep fit. He knows his time at celtc is up so why would a player in that situation let himself go so much that it would prevent other teams even thinking of taking him on.
Personally I will put my trust in the footballing department at ER who, if this is a genuine goer will assess Commons and judge wether he is a decent addition to the squad. If he's even half the player he was at celtc, even if no match fit, would make an impact in this league. He's got talent in bucket loads and that doesn't disappear over the space of 9 months.

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I have put my trust in numerous managers over the years, who have signed players we've all thought might be good for us, and guess what, a fair amount of them have not.

I have read someone else say he'd take a 60% fit Commons, now you say a half the player celtic had would be ok for us.

Why would half the player be good enough for us, and why would we take someone who was only 60% fit? And signing Commons would not address the positions we clearly need much more addressed ie width and pace, and another left back.

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Originally Posted by Paisley Hibby

Spot on. But as he hasn't played since April and he's 33 years old it would be pretty surprising if this is a good idea for us.

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If he has been training all the time then he will have some level of fitness, the worry is that it doesn't seem he has even played in bounce games or development games so no game time for a good while now which is the biggest concern, with him having a back problem a while back that if we try to give him game time to get his fitness up is heavy pitches at that time of the year and Astro pitch s could be a problem for him as well, the big fear is him picking up wee niggly injuries after not playing for a good while on these pitches, it will be a big risk to take, but I think Lennon will try to get it pushed through and hope Commons can do a job for Hibs as Lennon needs to get us promoted this season and he has previous for putting pressure on a clubs board to release funds in windows to strengthen his team, something Lennon has been doing recently, hopefully Leeann is ready to back him.

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Originally Posted by vince1973

It's seems we have a hell of a lot of Celtc fitness coaches here in .net who all know that Commons is unfit and past it at 33. He's not played for them for a long time because Rodgers doesnae fancy him and he was injured at the end of delias reign. We all assume that celtc are so unprofessional that they'd let a squad player become unfit. As far as I am aware he still trains with the 1st team and will probably be workin hard to keep fit. He knows his time at celtc is up so why would a player in that situation let himself go so much that it would prevent other teams even thinking of taking him on.
Personally I will put my trust in the footballing department at ER who, if this is a genuine goer will assess Commons and judge wether he is a decent addition to the squad. If he's even half the player he was at celtc, even if no match fit, would make an impact in this league. He's got talent in bucket loads and that doesn't disappear over the space of 9 months.

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In fact you have no idea whether he trains with the first team or not.As he's getting twenty grand a week for sitting around doing nothing you don't know either whether he's keeping himself fit or not.I'm not attacking you just pointing out that none of us know what the situation is.Clearly we would all take Commons as he was,equally clearly nobody wants money wasted on a guy that can't cut it anymore.The only indisputable fact is that the present and past Celtic managers did not think his skills are sufficient to make up for the fact that he can't play the pressing game required from midfielders these days.

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Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

I have put my trust in numerous managers over the years, who have signed players we've all thought might be good for us, and guess what, a fair amount of them have not.

I have read someone else say he'd take a 60% fit Commons, now you say a half the player celtic had would be ok for us.

Why would half the player be good enough for us, and why would we take someone who was only 60% fit? And signing Commons would not address the positions we clearly need much more addressed ie width and pace, and another left back.

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I would say that recruitment has improved since LD arrived at the club. The system in place now seems to employ more decent footballers than duds. I would prefer a fully fit Commons but if he starts at lower fitness than that it wouldn't take him long to get up to speed. Commons would address a massive problem we've had recently, scoring goals from midfield. I am in no way suggesting that he should be the only signing in January but I think he'd improve the current side. We obviously need wingers who can cross past the first defender and I am sure those positions will be high on the priority list for NL, probably above the Commons deal.
Like I said, I'm happy to let George Craig et al deal with signing and if Commons is deemed good enough I'm happy enough to see a really talented footballer pull on a Hibs shirt. If he doesn't then hopefully we can find that quality elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by ancient hibee

In fact you have no idea whether he trains with the first team or not.As he's getting twenty grand a week for sitting around doing nothing you don't know either whether he's keeping himself fit or not.I'm not attacking you just pointing out that none of us know what the situation is.Clearly we would all take Commons as he was,equally clearly nobody wants money wasted on a guy that can't cut it anymore.The only indisputable fact is that the present and past Celtic managers did not think his skills are sufficient to make up for the fact that he can't play the pressing game required from midfielders these days.

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No I don't know if he is or not but I would assume that he is or given the over exposure in the media on all things celtc then we would probably hear about it. Do you think the Hibs recruitment team waste money on him if he's no good for the job?
I would say the current celtc manager doesn't rate him. Delia seemed to until his injury? I have no clue as to what his wages has to do with his fitness, personnally if I was Commons I'd be making sure I was in top condition so I could get at least one more contract before the end of my career. Like you say none of us on here know what he's like atm but I'm willing to trust Hibs staff to assess that. I doubt anyone who has said on here that he is fat and unfit know that, just like I don't know he's not, I just see the logical side of the situation, unless Commons is planning on quitting football all together then you'd assume he would be fit and ready for football.

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Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

Perhaps you'd be wise to read through this thread then, but from what i have read some folk are just a little worried about the amount of time he's not played any football matches?

I think, although not 100% sure, that this is what they are basing their opinions on? :wink:

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Already read through the thread thanks. I've enough faith in our coaching staff to assess a players fitness and determine whether they can do a job for us.

Need to remember the league we are in. Commons is well above this level. Even at 75% he'd be a standout.

As long as it doesn't take too long for him to get match fit I would be happy enough if we were to sign him in January.

My concern would be if this signing took up most of our budget. I'm all for genuine quality over quantity, but we have a few positions we desperately need to strengthen. Namely attacking width. So not sure if we strengthened the midfield with just Commons if that would be enough. We would still be short on pace and width.

In saying that, Commons scores goals, which is chronically in short supply in our midfield.

We need mid f's to cover for McGinn and Fyvie, Commons is not a straight replacement for either, I just don't get this signing. Basically means Shinnie doesn't play.

Can't be arsed reading through the whole thread but from what I've read people are misunderstanding the fitness issue. Whether he is fit enough to run a marathon, last 90 or struggle to last 10 minutes isn't a concern.

The fitness side i worry about is the sharpness that you lose when you're not playing, at his age I worry he might struggle to get that back. Commons at 75% fitness could do a very good job for us but 75% match sharpness would be no good to anyone IMO.

Hopefully that makes sense and apologies if that's been well covered already.

I think he would be a good signing. We need an experienced attack minded midfielder and he will bring on younger players in the mould. Just need to add a winger and we'll actually start converting the chances we create.

No chance. Overweight. Too old. A has been. Id rather we brought in a Henderson type signing. A young player who is hungry to prove himself than someone looking for one last bow.

I'd take him on a short term contract. The only way I see it working is if he gets a pay off from Celtic and comes to us on a wage within our structure to get game time.
I wouldn't want him if it meant he was using up so muchh budget that we couldn't strengthen further. Also, would not want his signing to be at the expense of Cummings moving on and using the transfer fee for him.
I'd like to see players like Henderson, Swanson, coulbye etc come in if we sell Cummings.

Latest rumour doing the rounds is Samaras.

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Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

Latest rumour doing the rounds is Samaras.

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:greengrin

WTF he's 31, he's playing in the 2nd tier of american soccer, played 24 scored 2 ! I know Commons and Lennon have the same agent, I have to wonder Georgios is part of the same stable. Smells like jobs for the boys. We made really good signings under Stubbs, not impressed with Lennons recruits.