I wouldn't have even tried that overtake in my racing game!
Well I have actually and it never works out!!
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I wouldn't have even tried that overtake in my racing game!
Well I have actually and it never works out!!
50/1 for Perez to win from the back, he did it last season. If Hamilton gets a penalty there could be a surprise winner, maybe Norris could get his first win.
An interesting afternoon ahead for Hamilton then, he’s going to have to go some to make up that penalty.
Don't normally watch it but was channel hopping. Does the penalty mean Hamilton is effectively finishing about 9th as it stands?Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
I'd be expecting Hamilton to win by more than 10 seconds anyway
When he goes into the pits to change tyres his team will have to wait 10 seconds before they can touch his car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Thanks. Just heard that.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
Hamilton catching hoping leclerc can hold on!
Another cracking Grand Prix, a great win for the crowd to enjoy.
Racing incident. There was a gap and both drivers guilty of not giving the other any concession whatsoever. The sort of move that Max has attempted since day one.
Being able to hear the team radio to the race director is great grassing each other up to the teacher!
It’s a tricky one agree it a racing incident 2 top driver not giving an inch a penalty was given so they must think Hamilton was at fault.
Brilliant race, the crowd add so much to the whole weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
Classless from Horner and Max post race.
What did they say turned to tdf after he wonQuote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
what bugs me about it is that Max has pulled these manoeuvres himself, and Horner has played the smug, smirking, ‘well you know that’s racing’ quote out. I’m no Hamilton fan per say, but there’s an element of ‘live by the sword, die by the sword’ to this for me
both of them could have avoided it, neither really tried to, and a high speed collision happened. In this instance max came off worst, very often he’s the one who sails out of it and gets the advantage
Verstappen appears to be well which is the important thing.
Slightly surprised by the venom that seems to be behind the Red Bull, owner/ ceo/ driver comments after the incident but they may be trying to generate a siege mentality.
Others have mentioned it already, both drivers had the opportunity to stop the contact, neither backed off.
Rest of the season could be interesting as I don’t see either backing off
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I'm surprised to see the Racing incident conclusion by some people, that was never on for Lewis and at 180 odd mph it was down right dangerous. If it had been a slower corner the dart up the inside is feasible but not there. The result of Max going to hospital tells you that. Outside of the UK narrative on Sky etc there seems to be a lot of anger towards the incident and I think the post race comments from Lewis fanned the flames a bit.
I like Hamilton and cheered him on to many of his titles but that's not on today I'm afraid.
I agree and so do stewards. I'm not sure a 10 second penalty 'for causing a collision' was appropriate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatecrasher
But I never have thought 5/10 second penalties have been appropriate when the guilty party goes on to gain points while the victim is left floundering at the back of the pack, or worse.
At the point of turning in they were good as level, neither driver backed down and as such they made minor contact. At that speed that’s enough to put at least one off. The fact Lewis did not suffer damage shows it was nothing more than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatecrasher
Max needs to be smarter, if he played it less aggressive and let him through, worst case he’s still 25pts clear in a championship with the faster car. He’s not matured enough to make these decisions yet and as such Lewis is within ten and has a massive boost now.
It is a fundamentally dangerous sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatecrasher
The contact was avoidable and both drivers had a choice. This wasn’t a Schumacher or Senna wipeout, it was a kiss.
I like Verstappen but I would argue that he believes that the other driver will always back down. He pushes his machine to the limit and deserves to be leading the championship. As has been mentioned, with a 33 point lead he needs to play a smarter game.
I am sure that Hamilton lost the chance of a title by being too aggressive with Webber in his younger days. Winning championships is different to winning races.
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Max tweeted “ "Watching the celebrations while still in hospital is disrespectful and unsportsmanlike... but we move on."Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Whingy Spice said “ "The biggest result for us today is Max is uninjured. I hope Lewis is very happy with himself. That is a hollow victory.”
Ta. Poor from horner in particularQuote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
Incident aside that was a brilliant drive from Lewis there.
That stint after his pit stop was just phenomenal!
With you on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
Lewis was not going to back down there and forced Max to make a choice…Max took the wrong choice by assuming g Lewis would back out of it.
Ramps up the championship up nicely when it was already getting spicy.
Yes F1 can be dangerous but that makes the drivers still responsibility for each other all more important.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
Max was ahead and had the Racing line which gives him priority going into the corner (Lewis was never ahead) , max adjusted his line to give Lewis room, Lewis went into the corner far to fast, missed the apex and hit max at full speed.I'm sorry but there's only one person to blame here IMO.
Happy to have different views.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatecrasher
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The FIA supplied a diagram to teams of when it is appropriate to attempt an overtaking manoeuvre when there is a “significant overlap” and the diagram has the car behind further back than from where Hamilton was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatecrasher
Hamilton also loses ground from turning in to where the apex is, suggesting he got out of it for a bit. Had he fully committed with the extra momentum he had then he would have hit the apex at least alongside Max.
Every bit a racing incident for me.
Hamilton now getting the same abuse Saka and Rashford got after the Euros . Not just a football problem , black sportsmen in any sport are going to get this **** it seems . It was a dick move by Hamilton but nothing Schumacher , prost , senna etc wouldn't have done .
It will be argued long and hard for sure but Lewis does not hit Max.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatecrasher
It’s very clear that Max turns into Lewis. Sure you can argue it’s for Lewis to get out of the move to allow Max to turn in but the on board is very clear that Max goes to turn, sees Lewis and moves left before aggressively turning right again…the only problem for Max is that Lewis has not backed out and Max then steers right into Lewis.
I get Red Bulls argument that Lewis simply shouldn’t have been there but he was so Max could also have reacted to that and not turned in so aggressively (see Leclerc in same position at the end).
That of course would have let Lewis through and he simply wasn’t prepared to let Lewis do to him what he has done to many before.
Whatever way you see it though it added to an already feisty weekend and now results in even more bad blood between the two teams…which is exactly the stuff that makes for a classic season!
I can't wait to see the reception he gets at zandvoort in a few weeks :hilarious
Contrast and compare how much room Hamilton gave three corners prior when he was ahead and on the outside at the end of the straight. Their paths only came close to crossing near the exit of the corner and Hamilton backed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
The roles were reversed almost perfectly into Copse and Verstappen turns in much more than Lewis did earlier in the lap and gave Lewis much less chance to back out.
The race stewards have given their decision. Hamilton was found guilty of causing the accident. Given they have access to more data than anyone here Hamilton was in the wrong. I'm not sure why anyone on here is so desperate to defend him.
Also interesting is that I've never heard either Hamilton or Toto being so hesitant, almost stuttering, when trying to explain their position. Both men are normally very assured when speaking to camera. They knew they were on dodgy ground.
I'm fairly certain there will be a few more similar incidents as the season continues.
Agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
Both drivers had the chance to prevent the collision and neither backed off. The fact that other drivers, with no loyalties or axe to grind (Leclerc and Alonso) have come out and put it down as a racing incident is telling for me.
In a sense this is the sort of thing we want to see (clearly without any injuries), it is pure theatre and adds to the interest. When Webber and Vettel were battling it out and coming to blows it was great entertainment, same with Alonso and Hamilton when they were at Maclaren.
Apart from the racist abuse, F1 will be delighted with this weekend I'm sure.
Mostly for the same reason I’m ranting on here after any Hibs game officiated by Willie Collumn 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Not sure anyone is desperate!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Toto was quite clear. He was adamant the regs supported his position.
The stewards decision is theirs alone…doesn’t mean I or anyone else needs to agree with it. In fact many punters, commentators and drivers have done just that.
I thought their decision a couple of weeks ago to penalise Lando when Perez went off the track on the outside when trying to overtake was wrong as well…In my opinion they are over policing the racing and giving penalties for stuff that should be considering racing incidents.
Karun Handchok gives a good analysis here. Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen collide in big British GP flashpoint with Red Bull out of the race | F1 News (skysports.com).
To me the critical point is that there was a car's width between Verstappen and the edge of the track, but Hamilton was missing the apex. Verstappen took the racing line while allowing that car's width and Hamilton was unwise to carry that speed into that corner in those circumstances.
That’s how I saw it as well. Hamilton should’ve backed out of it and Verstappen rightly assumed he would. The stewards obviously thought the same as they punished Hamilton for it. Red Bull are being slightly hypocritical though as there’s no way Max would’ve backed out of the manoeuvre if the roles were reversed, in fact he’s built a reputation on not giving an inch. In summary Hamilton was in the wrong and should’ve received a stronger punishment, but I’m not having Horners nonsense because he knows his driver would’ve done the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
Brilliant from Lewis today. He’s right in Verstappen’s head.
Not very street scary from Red Bull.
Not only a brilliant quali lap but managed to piss off Red Bull even more on the final outlap…takes real skills that [emoji1787]Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
I love Max but Hamilton showed him who’s boss today. It’s not always just about doing driving as fast as you can, Hamilton slowing both Red Bulls down at the end was masterful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
Yep. Lewis knows he’s not the fan favourite in this and is using it to his advantage. Can see them going into Zandvoort with massive pressure on Max to perform.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
That’s was hilarious watching Hamilton starting the race on his own. What a huge mistake from Mercedes.
Bonkers race hopefully Russell gets his first points.
Overtaking doesn’t look very easy Ocon & Vettel have a good chance of winning this with a Williams slowing everyone down.
Sainz could win this now Latifi has pitted.
Or Lewis he’s flying now.
:agree: He’s definitely got a chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by patch1875
Looking like Hamilton is going to pit again.
Tremendous from Alonso
Hamilton's walking talking "inspirational" Instagram quote persona quickly falls away when he's up against someone like Alonso.
Brilliant for Ocon.
Hamilton looks like he’s struggling
That was another excellent race today on a track that doesn’t lend itself to overtaking. Mercedes blew it and then almost rescued it with the strategy, but it’s so good to see someone like Ocon get the win. Alonso against Hamilton was epic and I was a bit disappointed to hear Hamilton complaining on his radio, but they all seem to do it. Delighted for Williams to have both cars in the points and it was good to see young Mick Schumacher get his elbows out while fighting for a points position.
It’s weird as everyone thought this season would be dull as all the teams concentrated on next season, but it could go down as one of the best.
Brilliant from Hamilton again.
He makes this stuff look easy but wow his wheel to wheel with Alonso and waiting for his chance was superb. As was his pace throughout..that out lap to get past Max and Ric was unbelievable.
Mental race and always good to see a new winner!!
Just on the start tho…if Hamilton had came into the pits I’m not sure he would have been able to get released.
His pit box is first and he would have been forced to wait for the whole field to come past…or he would have needed up doing an Alfa.
Vettel under investigation due to not enough fuel in the car for the after race sample.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
because the race hadn’t officially restarted he’d have been moved back to P1, what you’ve described is exactly shat happened to George Russell, the FIA told him to give the places back as he’d moved up 3 or 4 places during the pit scramble
Officially DQed.Quote:
Originally Posted by patch1875
Crying shame.
Ahh got ya, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by McD
Mercedes will be giving Bottas a huge bonus for playing 'the team game' sooooo well this afternoon. They couldn't have wished for better. 😉
Right I’m still confused by this.Quote:
Originally Posted by McD
We had, as you pointed out, Russell told to give places back but this morning we have Sainz and Ferrari complaining they lost places in the pit stop that compromised their race.
All added to a rather odd spectacle I suppose but I’m still not full understanding the rules here.
I thought Russell had to move back because he came up the inside of the other drivers in the pit lane. If you look at the restart Russell comes from the inside of all the other drivers. I can’t remember, but was Latifi 3rd when the race was red flagged?Quote:
Originally Posted by McD
Can’t multi quote on phone, apologies RyeSloan for not quoting you tooQuote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
Could well be me that’s misunderstood the reason for Russell being told to give the places back 😂
Dan Tictum dropped by the Williams Young Driver scheme after singing “Doo be Doo be Doo, Latifi’s a poo” on a live stream.
He claims he was already punted before the incident…which makes sense as he was obviously a bit bitter about it when you read the full exchange after his wee ditty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
I see Massi has cleared up the start procedure re last Sunday.
Absolutely the start order could and did change due to the pit stops and the order leaving the pits was considered the correct order.
Russell overtook in the pit lane so was told to give those places back.
So I’m back to where I started on this regarding Lewis having to stop in the first pit box and would have ended up last anyway.
He wouldn’t have been last as I’m now probably going to make a mess of an attempt at explaining :greengrin You’re right that the whole field would’ve passed him while he had to sit in his pit box, but the chain reaction of that is that the car in second into the pits would also have to wait and so on, Hamilton would be able to leave his pit box first as soon as the whole field have past him, effectively joining the back of the train of cars. The car that went in second would join behind Hamilton. The reason some gained and some lost is due to the position of their pit box. Mercedes are number 1 with Red Bull 2 and McLaren 3, it depended on we’re your box was and what position you were in the race. The teams like Williams who’s pit box is last gained because they could take advantage of the carnage that was going on with cars crashing into each other in the pit lane.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
There’s no way of knowing where he would’ve come out, but he wouldn’t have been last.
Hmm yeah fair point, certainly on the Williams front as Alfa decided to just let their driver crash into the queue of cars coming in…although Hamilton would have been stuck behind that nonsense as well!Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
But on reflection I think yer right, he would not have been dead last like he was.
Glad he didn’t though as that solo start will be an enduring F1 image!! [emoji1787]
Just watched the recording of qualifying. ****in hell what a performance from Russell. I really thought he was going to be on pole, future world champion imo.
Unlucky for Norris, he was looking dominant until his crash.
Small margins between hero and zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
He'll be lucky to make the grid tomorrow.
He’s been doing some ridiculous things for Williams for a while but wow that lap today was just unbelievable. What a talent and cannot wait to see in an even better car.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
Brilliant for Williams as well, they have had some tough times but have been suggesting that they are getting back to some sort of form and today must be a huge boost for them.
Agreed, his car was a mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Hamilton won’t be looking forward to having him as a teammate. If it’s a wet race anything could happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
Well Hamilton always says he wants a challenge to keep him focussed…he’sQuote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
gonna have that next year in spades!
Russell though will also face a challenge..not just trying to best Lewis but he goes from ‘nothing to lose mode’ to everything to lose. We have seen what that’s done to the young Red Bull guys so will be interesting to see how he handles that.
But he appears to be a level above the vast majority of drivers already and looks to have the world at his feet.
Perez in the wall getting the car to the grid
It will definitely be a different challenge for Russell, but it’s one I think he’ll take in his stride. It’s a pity he’s not likely to get a chance to show what he can do from the front row today.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
Based on the graphic I am presuming that it will be a couple of laps behind the safety car and then half points based on the atrocious conditions
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Should’ve either let them go out and race properly or not at all, seems a bit of a con to go out under the safety car just to get the 2 minimum laps in then straight back in, it was obvious from the medical car going round it wasn’t safe
for the record, I’m not saying they should have went racing at all, it was far too dangerous
I think that contractually it fulfills the minimum requirements. They won’t have to offer refunds to fans, sponsors and tv companies. I agree though that it’s a bit of a con. George Russell didn’t seem to mind though. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by McD
Classic F1 that nonsense of a ‘race’ today.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
It was obvious they couldn’t go out so should either have called it a dead rubber or looked to have the race tomorrow. With the latter probably a rather significant technical challenge to pull off the right thing to do was probably just call it off.
Getting points and podiums for that is just wrong but hey it didn’t seem to bother Russell who at least got some reward for his cracking lap yesterday!
The race director claims he wasn’t pressured into doing what he did, but I’m not having that. Doing what he did covered everyone’s back in terms of refunds and contracts. As you say it was classic F1, it reminded me of that race in America years ago that went ahead with only 4 cars due to problems with the tyres. It was a total stitch up, but that’s F1 I suppose, they’ll move onto the next race and all will be forgotten.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
I think Bottas' posting a fastest lap when told not to all but confirms that Russell is heading to Mercedes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudSquall
it was mentioned quickly on one of the post race shows that he’s rumoured to be off to Alfa Romeo next season, which would probably mean it’s nailed on fro Russell to be at Mercedes
Bottas confirmed at Alfa Romeo.
Triple H must be going radio rental in private about Vince, in the cases of Adam Cole and Daniel Bryan this situation was very avoidable.
Edit: Leaving this schoolboy error here for the inevitable puns :greengrin
Couldn’t even get him a drive at Haas.Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudSquall
I think this should have been in the thread next door!Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudSquall
Russell confirmed for Mercedes.
Looking forward to the Russell v Lewis battle already!Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
Great move for a driver that looks like he’s destined for the very top.
That was a certainty that Bottas was going to stick it on poll after being dropped. He’s going to start from the pit lane on Sunday, but I can see him doing well in the sprint race today and having a strong end to the season now the pressure is off.
Looking at the third picture of the Hamilton/Verstappen crash and you can see why the halo was introduced, looked like it saved Hamilton from some serious bother to say the least,
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1437051198931148802
Will probably end up Hamilton’s fault for not leaving any room but not sure it was a move Max should have risked through the chicane.
Great seeing the McLarens up front but Bottas on a charge.
It was the precise same thing that Max tried on Lewis on lap one. He’s a greeting faced little ********.Quote:
Originally Posted by patch1875
Fantastic for McLaren and Danny Ric today.
Nah!Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
Max stuck to the racing line lap one.
If the two drivers had raced the length of the main straight and Lewis cut across as he did there it would have at least been investigated, error. Turning into the first corner Max gave Lewis room or they would have collided sooner.
Lewis is losing the plot.
Definitely saved him from being seriously injured.Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudSquall
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
Racing incident for me. Two cars going wheel to wheel into a tight corner and inevitably collided.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Result about to be announced, I think. You're probably right.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
Max gets a 3 place grid penalty at next race.
Bizarre decision
When you read the stewards report it’s pretty fair IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by patch1875