Smith caught ... off a no ball!
Drama :greengrin
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Smith caught ... off a no ball!
Drama :greengrin
You have to laugh at that :greengrin A pace bowler yes, but how can a spinner not keep his foot in play?Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Unbelievable stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Absolutely shocking! 😡Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
Stokes off injured ... Smith about to get 150, Paine about to get 50.
Horror show for England.
The comparisons with Bradman will continue to be raised.
Bradman wasnt a cheat though :greengrin
Fair bit booing when Smith got his 50, 100 and 150.Quote:
Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee
He is simply sublime though. A few lovely boundaries but everything else seems to be a wee swipe off the pads and down the leg side for an easy single, plus some very good running to make the twos (which keeps him on strike).
Smith gets out (to Joe Root of all people) for 211.
Starc has been battering it around, sure MA will be enjoying that. :wink:
Aussies 464/8. England will have to bat and bat to save this one. Can't say I rate their chances.
I'm sure you're right but who can be certain of anything this series? Having said that I might put £1 on Stokes to get a duck first time inQuote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
England might have to go bodyline against Smith :greengrin
Archer must be injured. He is meant to be bowling faster he’s quite a young guy. Can’t see Ben Stokes saving England this time round. Aus bowling attack is simply too good.
Raining. Great for England, bad for our man, Mibbes, who hopefully got a lie in today as compensation!
Yes, not complaining about a bit of rest as yesterday was a taxing day on the beer front!Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Great middle session yesterday as Australia just imposed themselves all over England.
Not gone to OT yet, it is only fifteen minutes away in an Uber but it is chucking it down here at the apartment.
100 up for Eng and a half century for Burns who at least seems to have nailed down one of the opening spots.
Root seems a bit shaky but is hanging in.
102/2
Tea - 125/2
Burns 62, Root 47. Just the nightwatchman Overton lost in that session. If they can do that again in the next session then they are in with a wee shout of saving this test.
125/2 at the break. England would bite your hand off for a draw and a winner takes all showdown at the oval now.
It has been a resilient session from Burns and Root.
Hazlewood and Cummins are bowling extremely well though and Lyon is only going to get more and more from this pitch
As anybody watching or listening to this will know ... Nathan Lyon really, really needs a wicket. :wink::greengrin
Hazlewood providing just what the Aussies needed with two quick wickets.
Now to see how the Roy displacement turns out....,.,
Not so good as it turned out
And so today ends. Bad light stopped play and I understand Tim Paine was furious because the umpires had offered to let him play spinners at both ends before ruling it out, and this following in from Hazlewood being on fire. He finished up on 4-48 with an average of just over two an over. He really is the successor to Glenn McGrath when it comes to Ashes tours and while no one is likely to ever outdo Glenn, Hazlewood is utterly compelling to watch in having that similar command of line and length, just clipping the top of off stump, over and over and over again.
Lyon bowled a lot of overs and it is just not happening for him. While I love cricket I do not confess to be an expert, especially on bowling, but I thought his length was maybe just a touch short, though his economy rate was alright. I fully expect him to produce the goods tomorrow as the pitch was offering him a lot. Pat Cummins was exemplary especially either side of tea and was also bowling ridiculously tight overs. Funnily enough, the discussion about a potential Paine succession that I floated on here on Wednesday was replicated in the Guardian’s live updates thread today. Pat Cummins was being touted although there is a certain amount of orthodoxy and conservatism in cricket that says the skipper should be a batsman who fields in the slips.
As for England, Burns and Root were patient and had started building a very successful partnership before Josh Hazlewood broke through. They bo5h, along with Stokes and Roy, produced some lovely shots and I think this is a pitch that still offers something for everyone, although it is shifting to the bowlers for sure.
Day three ended with Australia definitely in the driving seat. Two clear days of weather predicted, their seamers bowling very well, and a pitch that is only going to increasingly suit Gazza. I think I am going to be present to see the Australians retain the Ashes on English soil for the first time since 2001.
What was quite funny was that despite Australia’s unhappiness at the bad light call, within minutes of stumps it was raining enough to ensure they would have had to go off. Manchester is a fascinating weather climate. It always looks on the verge of chucking it down but has actually resisted it well over the last couple of days.
Bold statement comparing Hazelwood to McGrath. He’s got a long way to go to reach those heights :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
I didnt word it well. I don’t think anyone will equal McGrath but I think Hazlewood bowls in the same style and will find a lot of joy on English pitches. If he can stay fit and on form then he can probably manage another couple of Ashes visits to England and he will prosper. He has that nagging line and length that just draws batsmen out and the epitome of that style was the perfect GMcG. Hazlewood is unlikely to match GMcG in overall impact but he is a similar type of bowler and the closest Australia have had since Glenn retired.
I do agree and I was kidding a bit as I knew what you meant. One thing I would say is McGrath could do it anywhere in the world. He was the greatest fast bowler in my lifetime. When he got injured in the warm up in the great series in 2005 it was the difference between winning and losing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
This game will be a draw.
England in a mess once again, 256-8
Broad gets Warner for a duck yet again!
Smith is like a batsman from the great era of cricket facing inferior bowling from the present era of cricket.
England 0 for 2. Ashes are all but gone.
Here's hopingQuote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
I'll counter this - I think Hazlewood is the best Oz bowler I've seen. His consistent line and length is amazing and he's won this test for Australia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
Been travelling the last few days so been unable to converse - maybe a good summing-up post tomorrow :greengrin
Smith and the Aussie bowlers are excellent. England have missed Anderson badly tho
Well it was an extravaganza of Test cricket today! When an Ashes series is level going into game four, and you subsequently witness three innings during day four, you know there must be something tasty going on! More swings than a middling-to-large swing manufacturer’s.......
Starc bowled fantastically and took two critical wickets but Cummins and Hazlewood were also tremendous. I think what’s best is they all have different styles, as do Siddle and Pattinson. While Lyon isn’t taking wickets, he is maintaining a relatively decent economy rate. This means that after the new ball partnership, Lyon can hold down an end allowing the Aussies to rotate the three quicks at the other end, keeping them fresh and constantly challenging the English batsmen with their varying techniques.
Buttler did well early today, with the support of others to avoid the follow-on, though I think everyone would have been astonished had Paine sought it. It has very much gone out of trend unless the gap is absolutely massive. I think, might be wrong, that Australia set the tone for this under Steve Waugh, same as not playing a night watchman.
So, the second innings finished with a sizeable difference in scores. It felt blindingly obvious that if Australia could come out and flay England then they could quickly build up a big enough lead to look for a timely declaration. This would then allow their pace trio to exploit the Manchester pitch and weather to bowl their opponents out.
England, or rather, Broad and Archer had other ideas. Davey Warner once again succumbed to his nemesis, this has been a gripping personal duel. It is entirely psychological IMO. Broad is a world class bowler but Warner, even after the horrors of this series, still averages over 46 with the bat. Yet on this tour, Broad has had the sign over him. Warner is too good surely not to bounce back but this Ashes has been chastening for him.
Harris and Head also lost their wickets to particularly fine deliveries from the English opening duo, ramping up the atmosphere at Old Trafford and begging the question, what can Steve Smith do?
Well, it was a slow start and he went in at tea with a pedestrian 19 from 38 balls, but re-emerged with an obvious game plan that saw several scampish boundaries and some absolutely blistering pace running between the wickets. There was more than one occasion where he ran a second and was almost back at his end before his teammate had started back - okay, maybe a touch of hyperbole there but genuinely only a little.
Good support from Matt Wade and an uppening of the pace meant that when Smith finally went, it was for 82 from 92 IIRC. I think that is therefore his lowest score so far in this Ashes but probably the one that has finally swung it, as this performance combined with the last twenty minutes of today’s play almost inevitably have ensured an Australian win.
Tim Paine had a short and by his standards, flamboyant knock, just ensuring quick runs on the board to boost the Australian lead further. Then all of a sudden he was racing off the pitch, to leave England with a few difficult overs against Cummins and Hazlewood in muggy, overcast conditions.
I have bored everyone silly I’m sure with my praise for Pat Cummins but my word, he delivered for Australia, taking the wickets of Burns and Root in consecutive deliveries in the first over. Burns was stupid, playing wildly and coughing up a straightforward leading edge. Root was beaten by a classic, nicking the top of off stump. A hugely difficult task for England now becomes near-impossible.
Sunday brings a practically new ball, rested pacemen, a day five pitch and dry, muggy, overcast conditions. England will have to pull out all the stops to take anything from Old Trafford tomorrow and I really struggle to see it.
Butler and Overton battling really well until an unbelievable delivery from Hazlewood. Can't blame Butler for leaving it. Looks like just a matter of time now
Leach goes only 1 wicket to go.
Australia retain The ashes.
Great match!
Great series!
Two teams a credit to the sport
Great crowds
And not least, superb commentary that adds to the understanding of what was going on
And MA played his part as well
Congratulations Australia.
Hard match to win, but got there in the end.
Great Game
Great Crowd
Great result, on to the Oval and win the series too.
Congratulations to Australia on their series win. They've deserved it, with Steve Smith proving the difference.
Thanks ACL, that’s kind, as were your previous comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by ACLeith
What a scintillating day in what has been a tremendous series!
Australia retained the Ashes on English soil for the first time since 2001 but one should acknowledge the stubborn rearguard defence that England put up. And we still have the prospect of a Test at The Oval, very often the series finisher for teams touring England and very often a match that produces outstanding efforts, often by the unexpected.
I thought England battled well today in the face of excruciating pressure from the Australians. Roy and Denly have both had their struggles in this series and Denly probably hasn’t benefitted from being moved around to accommodate other players, but they managed to hang around a bit. The jury remains out on both. Denly has probably done enough to make the next series. The question is whether continuing to try to utilise Roy in a Test role might have a negative knock-on effect on his white ball game, which would be a disaster for England. I think either would find remedy in a big score at The Oval, even if that was only papering over some real selection cracks. By the same token, outside of the Indians, I don’t think Roy will face better Test bowlers.
Bairstow and Buttler also began to settle in to a degree though a reintroduced Starc took care of Bairstow. This saw Overton join Buttler at the crease and England started to steady themselves.
Paine was really shuffling the pack, bringing in both Labuschagne and Head and even switching Labuschagne’s end in short order. Head was very tidy, Labuschagne more expensive (more of him later) but it felt like they were giving Lyon a rest and the pacemen too, while the overs ran down to the new ball.
Curiously, Paine wasn’t that patient, as maybe, just maybe, it felt like England could string out a draw. Starc and Hazlewood both came in before the eightieth over and it wasn’t long before there was an impact.
Josh Hazlewood, in simply masterful pace bowling, drew Jos Buttler into expecting a short ball by sending a couple down and manipulating the field to make it look like a short one was on its way and then just clattering his off stump. If there were three stages to ensuring the Australian victory here in Manchester, the first was Smith’s innings, the second was Cummins’ two late wickets last night and the third was eliminating any chance of a draw with this exquisite delivery by Hazlewood.
The Old Trafford crowd had been fairly raucous to this point, and surprisingly more so than Saturday which is traditional ‘party day’. They stepped it up a bit now and really turned up the noise, not least when Palliyugurage took an age reviewing Overton for lbw. The TV shot made it look like it was bat onto pad but snicker was inconclusive and I think it genuinely had just moved through the air and hit pad first. He rock and rolled for around five minutes while a partisan crowd grew hugely angry and then he decided it was inconclusive. Then ball tracker showed it wouldn’t have been a wicket anyway!
It wasn’t much longer before things were wrapped up. Labuschagne, the unexpected star of the series grabbing the wicket of Leach and Hazlewood finishing things off.
So, all in all, a deserved Australian victory and retention of the Ashes in my opinion. England had their stellar moments but Australia were consistent, or more accurately Smith, Cummins and Hazlewood were consistent with cameos from Wade and Siddle and the unanticipated emergence of Labuschagne.
I agree with comments I read somewhere else today that it all reflects the fact that England prioritised the World Cup and Australia prioritised the Ashes. That seems fair.
Having said that, in a series with still a match to go, we have seen what was likely once-in-a-lifetime heroics from Ben Stokes.
And we have seen Steve Smith demonstrate he is simply on a different plane to his peers who are rightly to be considered elite sportsmen in any other sense.
And we have seen Paddy Cummins and Josh Hazlewood, two different bowlers who combine beautifully, showing they are one of the best opening attacks you could name - these guys hopefully have a good few years ahead of them and can really establish themselves in the pantheon of all-time best fast bowling pairs if they stay injury-free.
Gorgeous, sumptuous cricket to date, I am gutted there is only one Test left but so grateful for all we have been given so far!
Nicely summed up and thanks for all your reports, I've enjoyed reading them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
After the Headingley 2nd innings, it seems England are starting to rediscover the mindset of test match batting. I think they'd have had a slightly better chance at Old Trafford if they'd won the toss and batted but then again conditions on the first day were ripe for a collapse, unless your name's Steve Smith. Roy did a bit better at #4, I imagine they'll stick with that for the Oval, so he's at least got that one more chance to stake a claim.
It was a real pity that Anderson didn't get to bowl in this series. The match up between the master batsmen and the master bowler (in English conditions anyway) would've been great to see.
So, last test at the Oval.
Aus have won the toss and put Eng in.
England have dropped Roy and Overton and brought in Sam Curran and recalled Woakes. The Aussies swap Siddle for Starc, Mitchell Marsh comes in and Travis Head drops out. I guess this might be a little anti-climactic after the last 2 nailbiting finishes.
The highest opening partnership of the series - 27. :greengrin
Denly throws his wicket away after getting in in tricky conditions. A microcosm of recent England opening batting. :rolleyes:
27/1
Root has now been dropped twice, he really has to capitalise now and go on to make a big score.
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY
Burns doing well, 42 no.
Eng 86/1
Toss decision not looking well advised.
Root dropped again!
Burns out just short of a half century, Eng 107-2
Stokes gone, 130-3
169/3 at tea.
not out batsmen, Root a sketchy 57 and Bairstow 22
If England can get through the next session for the loss of 1 or 2 then a good day I think. But with this team a collapse is always on the cards ...
Root out for 57. England really need someone to go on and make a big score here.
170/4
178-5
The collapse is on :wink:
185/6
Edit: No it's not ... no ball. :greengrin
185/5
Oh yes it is 🤡Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
269-8, new ball time.
Buttler out for 70 trying for another heave. Surely he didn't have to be quite so gung-ho with Jack Leach going along fine at the other end?
294/9
Should Leach be promoted to (at least) number 8?
Soon as I've finished typing, Leach plays on :greengrin
Eng all out for 294. Good fightback from Buttler/Leach but it should be a much, much bigger score.
Shock! Warner out for 5 ... but not to Broad!!!!!
Super Jof on the board. Not long until the Steve Smith show now ...
5/1
Well that's the openers out the way (speedily as usual). Harris out for 3.
14/2
Labuschagne/Smith now so don't expect any updates until after lunch ...
Labuschagne out for 48.
83/3, Super Jof has all 3.
Smith bats serenely on ...
Good coverage JMS! I think I read that the highest opening stand in the series is something ridiculously low, or the average certainly is.
On a different note, does Sam Curran not look like he is bunking off school?
I have been watching and listening to the match but not able to post at any length. Hopeful of sharing my rambling drivel tonight.
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
Burns/Denly's 27 yesterday is the highest of the series.
Aussies just got to 100.
Smith looks well set for yet another ton. His form is just outstanding.
Aussie collapsing apart from Smith, he really has been the difference between the sides.
166/7
Curran on a hat-trick!
Siddle edges the hat-trick ball for 4.
Smith FAILS!!!!!!!
A paltry 80. :greengrin
Aus 187/8. England's total not looking so bad now.
Smith must be dropped :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
225 all out. Eng's first innings lead is 69.
Well done England and particularly Joe Root for plugging away. Things can only get better.
I have very much neglected this final Test on here and that is a shame because it was another good game, perhaps slightly anti-climactic after all we have been treated to, but still, a very decent Test match IMO with lots to enjoy.
Final series matches at The Oval often seem to throw a curve ball and this was no different in throwing up the first drawn Ashes series since 1972. For Australia, they have retained the Ashes on English soil for the first time in a long time (2001?) but they would have loved a series victory to go with it. And thinking about how the matches played out, there were so many instances which could have turned innings and turned games and saw Australia win the series comfortably. Likewise, England had similar moments and it would be churlish not to acknowledge the loss of Jimmy Anderson. I don’t think he would have been fit enough to open the bowling in five Tests so it would have been intriguing to see how England managed him, but quite clearly they missed him.
As to the match itself, it was always a big ask for Australia. After Old Trafford they looked like a side with one foot on the plane, despite any desire to not just retain the urn but win the series. For England, Jofra Archer shone yet again, what a young talent at 24 and I am loving the prospect of seeing what he can do on Australian pitches in the next Ashes series, Perth especially, but the Gabba too. I also reckon he won’t dislike the SCG, MCG and Adelaide. It should be tasty!
So, as summaries go, let’s start with Australia.
Steve Smith returned to the Test arena after a twelve month suspension. He batted on bowler-friendly wickets and knocked up 774 runs in seven innings. I believe he scored 333 runs more than the next-highest scoring batsman (Stokes). As much as anything he was a talisman, England never looked like they knew how to get him out, despite experiments with fine legs and whatever’s. Ultimately he was dismissed by his own mistakes, but usually after accumulating match-changing scores.
What shouldn’t be neglected is his slip fielding. Absolutely magnificent, I think he took twelve catches (and in fairness, spilled a few more). That’s a tremendous return from three and a half matches.
Otherwise batting, Warner has had a miserable time of it, especially at the hands of Broad. He is a lot better than this though and will bounce back. His one consolation is he fielded well, he has incredible pace chasing a ball down.
Wade did well today for a gritty century and I expect to see him continue as a specialist batsman given that Paine is indicating he will carry on and there is a readymade WK replacement in Carey. Khawaja might yet return but I fail to see what he can actually offer to the team, other than a middling 20 or 30, bumped up on home soil. Harris had a torrid time, and I feel for him. His travails May open the door for Bancroft returning but it doesn’t feel like Australia are confident about who opens with Warner.
The breakout player for Australia is clearly Marnus Labuschagne. A number of great innings, so unlucky not to progress to a century. He has also fielded very well and his part-time spin has produced a few zingers, not least of all the critical wicket of Leach at OT.
As for the bowlers, it is impossible to criticise. Cummins was immense, Hazlewood nearly as good, but different in that he offered tidiness and consistency, against Patty’s sheer aggression. Pattinson, Siddle and Starc all complemented, at various points, while Lyon was indefatigable holding down an end and allowing the seamers to rotate. Gazza has quietly and steadily built up his tally to the point where he is now Australia’s second leading wicket taker by spin IIRC.
As for England, this series has answered some questions and thrown up others. Rory Burns seems set now, he has shown enough at opening bat. There is a lot of chat about the youngster Dominic Sibley being drafted in alongside him. He is a talent but it is a roll of the dice. Joe Denly has done enough to justify a trip to NZ for the autumn series but the question is where he plays?
In times gone by, the order shuffled to allow you to blood youngsters at six, while the rest of the team moved up a slot. Denly isn’t a youngster but is inexperienced at Test level. My preference would be for Root to stick at three, in the same way Ponting did. Best player, most critical position. If that means relinquishing the captaincy then so be it. Denly or Stokes at four/five, either way round.
This then raises the Bairstow question. If he is keeping wicket should he bat at seven and let Jos Buttler in at six? Or perhaps more importantly, what do you do with Ben Foakes, who is maybe the best keeper of the lot and a fine red-ball batsman?
Bowler-wise, Stuart Broad was magnificent but obviously time-limited, yet still managed to become the first Englishman to take 20 or more wickets in four Ashes series. He can really nurture the likes of Archer. Pace wise, it is a case of England managing injuries. Archer played with a strain and the other five or six pace picks were all nursing something or other. In the spin department, Leach has come on well and is hugely popular with the support. I guess a lot depends on how Moeen responds to his summer. I genuinely hope he bounces back.
Interesting times for England, a two-Test trip to New Zealand and then four Tests across the turn of the year in South Africa. They will be challenging matches.
Some cool photography here:
https://www.theguardian.com/artandde...ettable-summer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
Good stuff, MA. :aok:
One thing you haven't mentioned is the importance of the toss. It's quite striking I think, that where teams are fairly even matched at least, it's very hard to be chasing in the last innings.
Edgbaston - Aus bat, comfortable win
Lord's - Eng bat, on top and probably would've won without rain delays
Headingley - Aus bat, Eng win *but* they had perfect weather conditions in gloomy first day and then sunshine, and even then they needed a miracle!
OT - Aus bat, on top and wore out Eng resistance
Oval - Eng bat, comfortable win
So Tim Paine really threw away the series win at the end there :wink:
Cheers!Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Yes, good point. I have rarely if ever talked about the toss - it’s cause I’m old-school, Steve Waugh-style, don’t care what the toss is and never enforce the follow-on :greengrin
But seriously, you are absolutely right, the toss is massive, massive anywhere but you can really see the significance in England as well as in places like the Gabba. And with both teams having balanced bowling units then batting fourth becomes very difficult.
Another theme that I or we have probably not given much attention to is the new ball and the impact it can have, dependent on when it becomes available in the innings. It can turn games very quickly.
And likewise the weather conditions. I touched upon it to an extent when posting from Manchester but it is incredible how an half-hour spell of cloud cover, with a tepid to warm temperature can completely change the way the ball moves. Lucky you if you are bowling and your best swingers are fit to go and haven’t just put down ten overs!
My personal favourite under-referenced theme is the part-time spinner. Root and Labuschagne both delivered vital interventions during this series, despite not being frontline bowlers.
I think that is part of the attraction of cricket, there are so many variables, so many subjective, so many things that you can’t control but can utilise if they fall your way at the right time.
But even accepting that, you still have scope for individual brilliance. Smith and Stokes, Cummins and Broad, rising above all the other factors and imposing themselves on matches through sheer will allied with extraordinary talent.
Just looking ahead we have India vs South Africa next month, which looks tasty. T20 in the Caribbean, which will see a few international stars flaunting their stuff. And I have not followed it closely but I believe Essex and Somerset are going head to head next week to decide the County Championship.
If I find the space I might post a bit on the T20. I will definitely be trying to watch the Tests in India. Desperate to see Bumrah bowling on home soil and likewise how Rabada and Ngidi do. Being in India there is always scope for batsmen and spinners so that will be fascinating too. I’m a bit busy through October but if I can start a thread for the Tests I will and if I can’t then someone else should feel free.
Great World Cup, great Ashes, now back to the norm of hoping for good Test series, ODIs and the various T20 tournaments :greengrin
I don't normally follow county cricket but have been following this. Somerset have never won the CC and have led practically all season before losing this week at Hampshire. Can they pull it round in a Hibs-2016 last game resurrection stylee? :worried::pray:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
I will keep an eye on this one. Somerset have had some great players over the years, most especially in the late seventies and early eighties. Funnily enough, when I was at Old Trafford I was sitting beside a guy who had been with Essex though got dropped in his late teens. He was black and said that Essex was notorious for not promoting black and Asian players into the first team at that time (I am guessing he was in his forties now).Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Somerset had Botham and Viv Richards together at one point did they not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
Anyway, after 2 rain interrupted days, it's:
Somerset 203 all out - tremendous 59 partnership for the last wicket, otherwise they might be already more or less out of it.
Essex 25/0 - patient first 11 overs from Essex openers including a certain Sir Alastair Cook.
Yeah, Somerset desperately needed a burst at the end to give themselves a chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Botham and Richards were at Somerset along with Joel Garner, under the captaincy of Brian Close. During the Ashes I watched at home, they put on a few pre-recorded slots during rain breaks, featuring Ian Botham interviewing Viv Richards about their time together at Taunton. It was good, for some reason Botham doesn’t come across well on commentary but in the one-to-one interview he was fine.
The Kevin Pietersen documentary has been good too, there was a bit of that today during the rain break. Pretty honest stuff from most of those involved in what was a bitter and sour debacle.