Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

The thing is, if you’re a businessman (which most chairmen are) it’s a good idea for the clubs. The ‘new’ Rangers are forced to take on the responsibilities of the old Rangers – pay their debts and take their punishment. And you’re not cutting out 50% of your main two income streams for longer than a year, so you’re not putting the future of your club at risk. Perfect.

Except football is not a business for the fans. We’ve seen Scottish football being hopelessly unbalanced for well over a century because of rancid bigotry. We’ve known that everything is twisted to favour the Old Firm and now we’ve proof that one half of them at least has been cheating and lying for years. And we’ve now got a once in a lifetime chance to make them pay, to redress the balance – even if just for a short time.

That’s what it’s all about. And that’s, hopefully, what the suits will come to understand. That it doesn’t matter how clever or financially sound the plan is. It won’t wash with the fans and it never will.

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Originally Posted by bingo70

I thought one of the conditions of the proposals was that they paid back the footballing debt of the old company? With the money due for Wallace, Jelavic plus possibly others would that not be about £6m? then you'd think they would accrue other debts while in the first division so straight away could well be over the £10m, add that to further sanctions which i think would be in place it may be harder for them to generate cash the way they did before so may not be the easy ride it's being made out to be.
y are due mon
I still think they should be punted back to the third division though.

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Yes they will need to pay back the Wallace money. The jelavic money is different, they are due money from everton which they can't pocket they will need to pass to rapid. Even still, I think rangers are owed more from everton than they owe rapid. Don't think they will lose money in division 1. Even if only 20% of rangers fans renewed they could still win the league easy spending less than they bring in. Green will not put the club into any more debt IMO when the league gets underway. He want to make a profit. If he gets rangers into the spl virtually debt free he will make a mint. He could make a profit selling the club now.

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Originally Posted by Skanko79

right what??

we were absolutely hideous to watch last season, produced a team on the park that had no fight and passion and were, to be totally honest, rank rotten, and all you read on here is rangers this, rangers that???

All im saying is id much rather spend my time getting behind our team and hoping they produce a far better display on the park than last season and staying in the spl than worrying to the extent that i feel the need to email a board member about my concern about where glasgow rangers will be playing their football next season.

does that not make any sense to you like?

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Don't you get it? We were hideous to watch last season (and many other seasons) because we play by the rules and live within our means. Im not saying thats the only reason but it played a large part. If we were willing to cheat like Rangers then do you think we would have been watching pish football culminating in a footballing disaster against our biggest rivals? Does it not bother you to think back on all the games you have attended where Rangers have gubbed us and we have had to put up with their neanderthal supporters taunting us with their sectarian fueled bile.

Now they are trying to get off lightly and you say you couldn't care!!!

Does none of that make sense to you like?

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Originally Posted by hibs13681

Not I so sure, if they vote no to the spl share transfer, old co still have it. At which point they will be forced to give it up through relegation or the fact they are no longer able to field a club. I think what's happening here is a complete transfer of responsibility. At the moment they are responsible for rangers old co. if they choose not to transfer the share, they can relegate old co and it becomes the sfl problem. I fear this has been the plan all along. The statement from hibs basically backs this up. We vote no and it's someone else's decision.

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They can't relegate them. The SPL board would instruct Rangers FC to give up their share to whoever the board nominates. That would result in both Rangers FC and Sevco not having a league to play in and one or both can apply to the SFL for entry at whatever level the SFL sees fit, but that should be out of the SPL's hands.

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

Apparently the SPL is threatening to set up SPL 2 (incl new Huns) if SFL votes against reform.

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What was Doncasters quote? "Without fear or favour." Looks like they are now using fear to favour one. :grr::grr::grr:

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

Alright then, what do you give "a toss" about? Do you think it's alright for a Scottish football club to deprive schools and hospitals of £92 million?

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thats a wee bit over the top is it not?

i dont give a toss about where rangers play there football next season, thats what ive said all along.

some of you folk really need to take a long hard look at yourselves.

no point replying to any of my posts, i'll stick to getting involved in the more hibs related threads, you lot are a complete joke.

someone comes along with a different set of opinions to you and your on it like a bunch of wee fairys with your facts and fugures, is there no a seperate forum for folk like you lot to go and have your wee stat partys with your facts and fugures cos your boring me to complete tears, and probably the majority of folk on the forum.

The majority of HIBS SUPPORTERS ive spoken with regarding it, and believe me, its just been brief conversation becuase its not the be all and end all of our game, and im talking about folk that have supported the club through thick and thin since the 40's and 50's couldnt give a TOSS about it. they just want Hibs to do well and get behind there team.

what part of that is so difficult for you folk to understand???

emailing the board because your worried about rangers......get a grip. have you not got a job to go to or something istead of hassling our board at 1 in the morning??

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Excellent well thought out remarks.

As I said, a total lack of awareness.

I've supported Hibs since the 60's. I've been across Europe following them and I have years of season ticket books which I keep for some sentimental reason.

Giving up Scottish football is no easy option, but my sincerely held belief in fairness and integrity will not allow me to put up with what you seem perfectly happy to ignore.If you want to kid yourself on that you're watching real competition in a real league, feel free, but don't criticise those who can see the truth.

You might as well watch WWF wrestling and pretend that's genuine too.

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Do you really feel the need to tell everyone this about 12 times every day? Stop boring people.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Excellent well thought out remarks.

As I said, a total lack of awareness.

I've supported Hibs since the 60's. I've been across Europe following them and I have years of season ticket books which I keep for some sentimental reason.

Giving up Scottish football is no easy option, but my sincerely held belief in fairness and integrity will not allow me to put up with what you seem perfectly happy to ignore.

If you want to kid yourself on that you're watching real competition in a real league, feel free, but don't criticise those who can see the truth.

You might as well watch WWF wrestling and pretend that's genuine too.

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so, in your well football educated mind then have these problems with our game just come about now with the rangers situation? our games been a shambles for years if not decades.

and the fact that you have watched hibs since the 60's and been all over is good, i didnt once doubt your commitment as a fan, just maybe urged you to get behind Hibs rather than worrying about rangers.

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Originally Posted by sairheid

The thing is, if you’re a businessman (which most chairmen are) it’s a good idea for the clubs. The ‘new’ Rangers are forced to take on the responsibilities of the old Rangers – pay their debts and take their punishment. And you’re not cutting out 50% of your main two income streams for longer than a year, so you’re not putting the future of your club at risk. Perfect.

Except football is not a business for the fans. We’ve seen Scottish football being hopelessly unbalanced for well over a century because of rancid bigotry. We’ve known that everything is twisted to favour the Old Firm and now we’ve proof that one half of them at least has been cheating and lying for years. And we’ve now got a once in a lifetime chance to make them pay, to redress the balance – even if just for a short time.

That’s what it’s all about. And that’s, hopefully, what the suits will come to understand. That it doesn’t matter how clever or financially sound the plan is. It won’t wash with the fans and it never will.

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The only future for Scottish Football outwth Rangers and Celtic is for their their power duopoly and dominence of the game to be terminated .

Consigning them to the 3rd division and them climbing back on top in 5 years time will be as damaging to other clubs as leaving them in the SPL.

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Originally Posted by Brooster

Do you really feel the need to tell everyone this about 12 times every day? Stop boring people.

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I'm replying to someone who is insulting everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's relevant and it justifies repeating.

I can't help it if you find it boring.

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Originally Posted by Caversham Green

They can't relegate them. The SPL board would instruct Rangers FC to give up their share to whoever the board nominates. That would result in both Rangers FC and Sevco not having a league to play in and one or both can apply to the SFL for entry at whatever level the SFL sees fit, but that should be out of the SPL's hands.

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The bit I am not sure about is the spl board instructing them to give up the share. If the spl are intent on letting rangers get the best possible deal what is stopping the from relegation? the vote is only for will we allow rangers to transfer the shre to a newco. If its a no then i think it's pretty unclear what happens with old rangers and their share.

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Originally Posted by TQM

Our Chairman has spoken of sporting integrity whilst (it appears) he has orchestrated change to our game which lacks integrity. NewCo have been given lenient and preferential treatment thus - rightly IMHO - leaving many fans (Hibs and others) to question the credibility of any form of integrity in our game. I have principles - it appears many others have also - I am not about to develop another set of principles when its convenient to do so. NewCo in Div 1 is insufficient punishment, and unacceptable to me.

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I will say this id his position at the SFA us clashing with his interests at Hibernian then he should resign from one of the posts. He's either all for Hibs or hes not. ( o and fwiw I am a RP backer ) if he has had ulterior motives in his position at the SFA then he contradicts what he says as Hibs chairman then surely his integrity is in question.

Thing that cheeses me off with this thread and others is that Hibs fans are arguing with each other over f****** Rangers.

It's been hard enough the last two seasons without falling out over those Glasgow *****.

This thread is fair enough but most other threads is hijacked with Rangers nonsense, I went into the signings thread and actually came back out it because I thought I had opened the wrong one by mistake.

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Originally Posted by Skanko79

thats a wee bit over the top is it not?

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No, it's a fact.

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i dont give a toss about where rangers play there football next season, thats what ive said all along.

some of you folk really need to take a long hard look at yourselves.

no point replying to any of my posts, i'll stick to getting involved in the more hibs related threads, you lot are a complete joke.

someone comes along with a different set of opinions to you and your on it like a bunch of wee fairys with your facts and fugures, is there no a seperate forum for folk like you lot to go and have your wee stat partys with your facts and fugures cos your boring me to complete tears, and probably the majority of folk on the forum.

The majority of HIBS SUPPORTERS ive spoken with regarding it, and believe me, its just been brief conversation becuase its not the be all and end all of our game, and im talking about folk that have supported the club through thick and thin since the 40's and 50's couldnt give a TOSS about it. they just want Hibs to do well and get behind there team.

what part of that is so difficult for you folk to understand???

emailing the board because your worried about rangers......get a grip. have you not got a job to go to or something istead of hassling our board at 1 in the morning??

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Keep your head in the sand then.

Regardless what happens. I intend to do the above. Just wanted to say my piece.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

I'm replying to someone who is insulting everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's relevant and it justifies repeating.

I can't help it if you find it boring.

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point out please where i have insulted anyone?

im sure if i had youd be all over it like a shot reporting it to the admins.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

I'm replying to someone who is insulting everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's relevant and it justifies repeating.I can't help it if you find it boring.

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I beg to differ, you and Desperate Dan are basically typing the same stuff in every post you write. Im not saying I disagree with you but please give us a break.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

You're mistaken.

Regardless of the team Hibs put on the park next year, if the league is fixed, I won't be happy and I won't be back.

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And for once i agree with you Mr Radge, a fixed league and i am finished with Scottish football, i will not be back either and i am sure there will be thousands of supporters from SPL clubs doing the same as us.

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/sta...50590295764992

The proposals start to fall apart.

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Originally Posted by Skanko79

so, in your well football educated mind then have these problems with our game just come about now with the rangers situation? our games been a shambles for years if not decades.

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There's always been inequality in football, I know that, but that applies to every league in the world.

Big teams have more money, wield more power and get more breaks.

But that's accepted as part of the deal. Small clubs exist to beat these giants, fairly and squarely.

But Rangers didn't even allow that. They stole that from us by their cheating.

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Originally Posted by Skanko79

and the fact that you have watched hibs since the 60's and been all over is good, i didnt once doubt your commitment as a fan, just maybe urged you to get behind Hibs rather than worrying about rangers.

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I'm not worried about Rangers.

I'm worried about the sport that I committed myself to, emotionally and financially, for over 40 years.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

That's an outrageous post.

You may not care about fairness and integrity, but please don't judge others by your low standards.

Clearly, it's you that doesn't give a toss about our game, if you're prepared to put up with corruption and greed and injustice.

To dismiss people's sincerely held beliefs as just "jumping on the bandwagon" is naive and suggests a total lack of awareness.

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:applause::applause:

Doncaster, Regan (who is up to his neck in it now), Ogilvie, Petrie, Topping, Lawwell and a few other Chairman sincerely believe in their naivety the threat by fans to not attend matches is not real.
The above "leaders" and possibly a few others believe if they think it enough and say it enough you will believe it...because after all we are just a football fan and we'll swallow any old line.
The SPL was designed for the benefit of 2 clubs by those 2 clubs, and Jim McLean will maintain to this day he regrets the day he was sold on this by Celtic/Rangers.
And with gers out of the picture (not completely) it has to be Celtic who are driving this. Now I don't have access to any Celtic fans sites but would like to know for sure Celtic's fans are aware Lawwell is selling them and their dearly held beliefs right down the Clyde as we write.

Fingers firmly lodged in the lugs for some idiots, "Laa laa laa not happening laa la laaaaaaaaa."

Doncaster, Regan (who is up to his neck in it now), Ogilvie, Petrie, Topping, Lawwell and a few other Chairman sincerely believe in their naivety the threat by fans to not attend matches is not real.
The above "leaders" and possibly a few others believe if they think it enough and say it enough you will believe it...because after all we are just a football fan and we'll swallow any old line.
The SPL was designed for the benefit of 2 clubs by those 2 clubs, and Jim McLean will maintain to this day he regrets the day he was sold on this by Celtic/Rangers.
And with gers out of the picture (not completely) it has to be Celtic who are driving this. Now I don't have access to any Celtic fans sites but would like to know for sure Celtic's fans are aware Lawwell is selling them and their dearly held beliefs right down the Clyde as we write.

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Originally Posted by Skanko79

complete and utter drivel. thats all that merits.

sincerely held beliefs?? get a grip, i can count on one hand the ammount of folk on this board, you being one of them that come out with complete tosh regarding the rangers situation.

get behind your own team for a change.

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So you think its right for cheats to prosper in Scottish football.

Tell me this, would you go to the casino where you no the tables are rigged, the machines are rigged, the whole place is set up to rip you off and take your money, would you still go in and gamble your money or even be daft enough to go back the next week and gamble your money again.

What a sorry sorry mess this is :rolleyes:

Now having to work and trying to get on and have a life, I haven't been able to keep up to speed with this fast moving and ever changing farce so I could be well off the mark but this is how i see it:

Yes Rangers have done wrong and so need to be punnished - SPL club chairmen come out and say they have listend and will vote NO to a newco but for me it was quite noticable the clubs that haven't said NO as of yet. Celtic, Lawells played a blinder here as by not sying anything he hasn't yet upset his own clubs support and also defused a possible public disorder catasrophy. Now the other noticable nay sayers are the small clubs in the greater Glasgow are, St.Mirren, Well and Killie. These are the three clubs who would suffer the most from a boycote of Old Firm fans.
It seems like Clubs are working together to best please their fans and defuse Gers fans anger.

Now this is where Sky enter the equation:
Yes we want to demote Gers/Sevco to the bottom and that is what should happen but we know Sky will rip up the contract so we propose 1st division as the solution.
We know this is wrong and SFL clubs know its wrong but i think that if we dont do this then Sky walks and Killie and Motherwell (at least) go to the wall overnight.
The banks will be using the Sky contract as insurance for their continued support of the clubs and without it they will pull the plug on the clubs.

So basically Sky have us over a barrell and we have somehow created a situation where SPL clubs are under so much pressure from the banks to keep the deal that we are now blackmailing SFL clubs into supporting Newco for 1st Div or else! If the SFL dont vote for it then SPL2 is created and the whole pyramid proposal and and hope and dreams of lower league sides die forever.

I genuinely think that Petrie and co would want to do exactly what we all want them to do but they fear if they do clubs will pay the ultimate price with the banks and so therefor they can't. Sadly by doing what is being proposed they could die a slower death, Petrie is caught between a rock and a hard place and feels he couldn't win no matter what he did.

It's my day off and i was going to drive through and get the new top but now i'm just totally scunnered with the whole sorry saga i just don't know what to do. What i do know is that i will neve subscribe to Sky but i also know that i could never walk away from Hibs. GGTTH

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Originally Posted by Skanko79

thats a wee bit over the top is it not?

i dont give a toss about where rangers play there football next season, thats what ive said all along.

some of you folk really need to take a long hard look at yourselves.

no point replying to any of my posts, i'll stick to getting involved in the more hibs related threads, you lot are a complete joke.

someone comes along with a different set of opinions to you and your on it like a bunch of wee fairys with your facts and fugures, is there no a seperate forum for folk like you lot to go and have your wee stat partys with your facts and fugures cos your boring me to complete tears, and probably the majority of folk on the forum.

The majority of HIBS SUPPORTERS ive spoken with regarding it, and believe me, its just been brief conversation becuase its not the be all and end all of our game, and im talking about folk that have supported the club through thick and thin since the 40's and 50's couldnt give a TOSS about it. they just want Hibs to do well and get behind there team.

what part of that is so difficult for you folk to understand???

emailing the board because your worried about rangers......get a grip. have you not got a job to go to or something istead of hassling our board at 1 in the morning??

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Oh dear :rolleyes:

Think your in the minority about your opinions - if you can't see the bigger picture here there is a problem and I would start reading more about it and the consequences it will have for the game in the future.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Excellent well thought out remarks.

As I said, a total lack of awareness.

I've supported Hibs since the 60's. I've been across Europe following them and I have years of season ticket books which I keep for some sentimental reason.

Giving up Scottish football is no easy option, but my sincerely held belief in fairness and integrity will not allow me to put up with what you seem perfectly happy to ignore.

If you want to kid yourself on that you're watching real competition in a real league, feel free, but don't criticise those who can see the truth.

You might as well watch WWF wrestling and pretend that's genuine too.

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What the WWF is rigged, you never, shocked at that news so i am. But others tell me its the real deal. :wink: :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Excellent well thought out remarks.

As I said, a total lack of awareness.

I've supported Hibs since the 60's. I've been across Europe following them and I have years of season ticket books which I keep for some sentimental reason.

Giving up Scottish football is no easy option, but my sincerely held belief in fairness and integrity will not allow me to put up with what you seem perfectly happy to ignore.

If you want to kid yourself on that you're watching real competition in a real league, feel free, but don't criticise those who can see the truth.

You might as well watch WWF wrestling and pretend that's genuine too.

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This is exactly how I feel. The truth is that Scottish Football is crap and utterly corrupt, but a love of my local team and a belief that they are at least playing in a semblence of a real and fair competition, where everybody is bound by the same rules, even if the financial odds are stacked against most of them, is all that is keeping me in this circus.

If that goes out the window, then I won't be involved in the ridiculous farce left behind. Why would any sane person want to be?

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Originally Posted by silverhibee

So you think its right for cheats to prosper in Scottish football.

Tell me this, would you go to the casino where you no the tables are rigged, the machines are rigged, the whole place is set up to rip you off and take your money, would you still go in and gamble your money or even be daft enough to go back the next week and gamble your money again.

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your post is a perfect example of my point.

the rangers situation is not the be all and end all of life.

ive not in ANY of my posts used the word cheat, nor said i want them to prosper in our game.

the minute someone comes along with a different set of opinions its not the end of the world.