Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

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20-05-2013, 07:43 AM
Hibercelona

Quote:

Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

Just when the Jambos thought it couldn't get any worse...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22593734

Massone (more than dodgy ex-Livi owner) has renewed his interest.

Great. Another dodgy vlaster to keep the circus act going for another 7 or 8 years. :rolleyes:
20-05-2013, 07:44 AM
Platinum Scotty

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...table.21127232

Started reading this thinking we had a sensible view from the West.....however he's of the view that they will sneak under todays meeting as nothing has been rubber stamped and any penalties will be next season........hope he is wrong
20-05-2013, 07:45 AM
Saorsa

Quote:

Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital

Right now I'm sure they'd take that. It's either him or certain death.
He might be a dodgy ******* but at least he has some money unlike any other group interested in them.

One crook replaced by another, just like ***** attracts flies, what a grubby little club
20-05-2013, 07:47 AM
Saorsa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platinum Scotty

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...table.21127232

Started reading this thinking we had a sensible view from the West.....however he's of the view that they will sneak under todays meeting as nothing has been rubber stamped and any penalties will be next season........hope he is wrong

The penalty will be back dated tae the day the insolvency was declared.
20-05-2013, 07:47 AM
MacBean

Would Massone pass the spl's 'fit and proper persons' tests? Given the state he left Livingston in, I'd be surprised
20-05-2013, 07:49 AM
Platinum Scotty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desperate Dan

The penalty will be back dated tae the day the insolvency was declared.

:thumbsup:
20-05-2013, 07:56 AM
leithsansiro

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacBean

Would Massone pass the spl's 'fit and proper persons' tests? Given the state he left Livingston in, I'd be surprised

I would severely doubt it. hat said, the SPL have been known to do stranger things. If there has to be a saviour for Hearts, please God let it be some financial pariah like him!
20-05-2013, 08:05 AM
Ozyhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacBean

Would Massone pass the spl's 'fit and proper persons' tests? Given the state he left Livingston in, I'd be surprised

They may not be in the SPL if he doesn't get his finger out.
East of Scotland don't have a fit and proper rule so should be ok there.
20-05-2013, 08:09 AM
mjhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caversham Green

Robbo is fundamentally wrong throughout that article. He keeps saying UBIG are not insolvent when they have publicly declared that they are - you can't get more certain than that. He says they're still trading but having declared themselves insolvent thay can't be, aside from being illegal no-one is going to trade with them. He then says the SPL can't relegate them because no insolvency event has taken place, but that's one of the things they have to decide - whether UBIG's declaration of insolvency constitutes an insolvency event as defined by the SPL rules and there's a very strong argument for saying it does.

Wishful thinking from the rotund chap I think.

All robbo and allan preston are trying to do is pleading for hertz to survive this season and take the 15 point hit next season.Facts dont come into it as you would expect as theyare as deluded as any other hertz fans.Its sad seeing robbo spout such drivel as i thought he had changed since becoming an honorary highlander.
20-05-2013, 08:10 AM
Andy74

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caversham Green

Robbo is fundamentally wrong throughout that article. He keeps saying UBIG are not insolvent when they have publicly declared that they are - you can't get more certain than that. He says they're still trading but having declared themselves insolvent thay can't be, aside from being illegal no-one is going to trade with them. He then says the SPL can't relegate them because no insolvency event has taken place, but that's one of the things they have to decide - whether UBIG's declaration of insolvency constitutes an insolvency event as defined by the SPL rules and there's a very strong argument for saying it does.

Wishful thinking from the rotund chap I think.

Can someone find the Lithuanian rules again that showed that this delcaration was one of a number of ways to become officially insolvent as it were? This waiting for a court thing I think is nonsense. Hopefully the SPL are aware of this.
20-05-2013, 08:12 AM
itslegaltender

If the SPL bottle it today and give them a point deduction for next season it wont be too bad. They would get an initial 15pt deduction, Yams would pile in with season ticket purchases and then with the Jambos going into admin meaning a further point penalty, there season would be ultimately worthless along with us extending our run against them.

Almost hoping this is the outcome today.

Never let them forget 20th May 2013.
20-05-2013, 08:15 AM
YehButNoBut

If Hearts do survive, and that seems a big IF at present, I would much rather they got the points deduction next season, they would almost certainly be relegated with the team they would have left and we get the chance to give them 3 more doings and rip the pi sh out of them at the same time.

And if the gods are in our favour even better if we can do it as Cup winners.
20-05-2013, 08:16 AM
Saorsa

Quote:

Originally Posted by itslegaltender

If the SPL bottle it today and give them a point deduction for next season it wont be too bad. They would get an initial 15pt deduction, Yams would pile in with season ticket purchases and then with the Jambos going into admin meaning a further point penalty, there season would be ultimately worthless along with us extending our run against them.

Almost hoping this is the outcome today.

Never let them forget 20th May 2013.

The events in the weege today are just a side show, relegation before liquidation would just be the icing on the cake. The real end game is taking place a long way from the incompetence of Scottish fitba and a long way from where anybody cares about that grubby little club.
20-05-2013, 08:16 AM
Sanger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy74

Can someone find the Lithuanian rules again that showed that this delcaration was one of a number of ways to become officially insolvent as it were? This waiting for a court thing I think is nonsense. Hopefully the SPL are aware of this.

Been in touch with the Bloomberg reporter in Lithuania and believe a court would have to ratify UBIG's self declared insolvency but importantly the official process has begun.
20-05-2013, 08:18 AM
Judas Iscariot

Quote:

Originally Posted by itslegaltender

If the SPL bottle it today and give them a point deduction for next season it wont be too bad. They would get an initial 15pt deduction, Yams would pile in with season ticket purchases and then with the Jambos going into admin meaning a further point penalty, there season would be ultimately worthless along with us extending our run against them.

Almost hoping this is the outcome today.

Never let them forget 20th May 2013.

They will bottle it, 100%...

***** bags :rolleyes:
20-05-2013, 08:19 AM
leithsansiro

Anyone know what time the Lithuanian court will decide? And does anyone know how you do an "18 point deduction" hand sign that we could dupe famous folk into performing...:)
20-05-2013, 08:19 AM
Sylar

Angelo Massone should be banned from ever partaking in anything football related ever again after what he did to Livingston.

A crook, a charlatan, a fraudster, a liar, a cheat and an absolutely vile **** of a human being.
20-05-2013, 08:21 AM
Billy Whizz

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Story So Far...

Angelo Massone should be banned from ever partaking in anything football related ever again after what he did to Livingston.

A crook, a charlatan, a fraudster, a liar, a cheat and an absolutely vile **** of a human being.

You're right, but a perfect fit for our Gorgie Chums
20-05-2013, 08:21 AM
YehButNoBut

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Story So Far...

Angelo Massone should be banned from ever partaking in anything football related ever again after what he did to Livingston.

A crook, a charlatan, a fraudster, a liar, a cheat and an absolutely vile **** of a human being.

Just the right chap for Hearts then. :agree:
20-05-2013, 08:21 AM
Ozyhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Story So Far...

Angelo Massone should be banned from ever partaking in anything football related ever again after what he did to Livingston.

A crook, a charlatan, a fraudster, a liar, a cheat and an absolutely vile **** of a human being.

He'd fit right in at Hearts then.
20-05-2013, 08:21 AM
BigKev

Quote:

Originally Posted by desantos0773

Been in touch with the Bloomberg reporter in Lithuania and believe a court would have to ratify UBIG's self declared insolvency but importantly the official process has begun.

So all we need is the SPL to clarify this, then the points deduction is a certainty?

Sadly I can see them bottling it and then becoming a laughing stock in a few months time when that lot go to the wall.

Doncaster out, Hearts deid. Can't think of a much better scenario. Win Win.
20-05-2013, 08:22 AM
Saorsa

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Story So Far...

Angelo Massone should be banned from ever partaking in anything football related ever again after what he did to Livingston.

A crook, a charlatan, a fraudster, a liar, a cheat and an absolutely vile **** of a human being.

And the fitba authorities should be saying so before he even gets involved.
20-05-2013, 08:22 AM
SteveHFC

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...body-says.html

copied from pm board
20-05-2013, 08:23 AM
Caversham Green

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy74

Can someone find the Lithuanian rules again that showed that this delcaration was one of a number of ways to become officially insolvent as it were? This waiting for a court thing I think is nonsense. Hopefully the SPL are aware of this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desantos0773

Been in touch with the Bloomberg reporter in Lithuania and believe a court would have to ratify UBIG's self declared insolvency but importantly the official process has begun.

The definition of an insolvency event in the SPL rules include ceasing or forming an intention to cease business. That suggests that the formal legal process is unnecessary and I can't see how anyone could argue that a declaration of insolvency is not forming an intention to cease business.
20-05-2013, 08:24 AM
Paisley Hibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee

Any chance the yams could force admin themselves after the season is over technically and let the lawyers argue about when the punishment is for?

That would be a second "insolvency event" and would get a separate punishment - which would apply next season.

There is no doubt that what happened last week triggered the SPL rule on insolvency. The problem is this. Where it's the parent company and not the football club that is insolvent, the SPL don't HAVE to dock points. They can decide that what has happened will not cause problems for the integrity and continuity of the league and also that the relationship between UBIG and Hearts is not close enough to merit applying the penalty.
20-05-2013, 08:25 AM
Sanger

Quote:

Originally Posted by leithsansiro

Anyone know what time the Lithuanian court will decide? And does anyone know how you do an "18 point deduction" hand sign that we could dupe famous folk into performing...:)

No time or date but insolvency declaration a rubber stamping process unlike a bankruptcy. Important thing is tha the insolvency event/process has started.
20-05-2013, 08:34 AM
Paisley Hibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caversham Green

The definition of an insolvency event in the SPL rules include ceasing or forming an intention to cease business. That suggests that the formal legal process is unnecessary and I can't see how anyone could argue that a declaration of insolvency is not forming an intention to cease business.

That's also my reading of the SPL rules. However, as I've already said on other posts, this is not an automatic penalty situation. The SPL has the discretion not to impose the penalty because it's the parent company in the "group undertaking" (not the football club) that has suffered the "insolvency event".
20-05-2013, 08:39 AM
blackpoolhibs

The way i see it is, if they don't relegate them, the SPL will have another summer of what we had with sevco. And the only difference is, they know they are going pop 100%, its just when?

They need to get them out the SPL now, and have all this bother further down the leagues away from their main product.

It will also let Dundee have a fair crack at trying to plan for next season.
20-05-2013, 08:42 AM
Caversham Green

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paisley Hibby

That's also my reading of the SPL rules. However, as I've already said on other posts, this is not an automatic penalty situation. The SPL has the discretion not to impose the penalty because it's the parent company in the "group undertaking" (not the football club) that has suffered the "insolvency event".

I agree. I think the answer to question 1 - has an insolvency event taken place? - has to be yes (and within the season, so the 18 point penalty would apply), the second question - is UBIG's involvement strong enough to warrant the penalty - is the critical one. The fact that HoMFC are at least £40m better off and UBIG the same amount worse off than they otherwise would have been should make the second answer yes as well IMO.
20-05-2013, 08:46 AM
HFC 0-7

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

The way i see it is, if they don't relegate them, the SPL will have another summer of what we had with sevco. And the only difference is, they know they are going pop 100%, its just when?

They need to get them out the SPL now, and have all this bother further down the leagues away from their main product.

It will also let Dundee have a fair crack at trying to plan for next season.

I think the spl's worry at the moment is that they will go pop. They know they have to deduct points but they will know that if they relegate them, they will go pop and the spl will be blamed for them going pop.

they will be weighing up the options that give them the least grief. Let them away with it and have the circus through closed season and possibly start of next season, or,relegate them and be blamed for their demise. Personally I would be happy to relegate myself and be branded as the one that destroyed hearts!

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