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Get off the fence mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcbizz1998
In the grand scheme of scandals the ones I’m more interested in are
PPE money and fast track contracts scandal
Russian influence in U.K. politics.
Track & Trace Money
BREXIT and clear Russian involvement.
If he’s guilty then let’s let justice be served.
I’d like to think the electors are can distinguish between the SNP and Independence.
J
...and I thought Trump's arrest was big news.
Thank God for an independent judiciary.
Yep, the SNP are in an almighty mess but let's not lose sight of these issues which are on another level entirely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
Who else will give them independence? The comments on here are clear on that, get rid and move on regardless. Before her resignation wee nippy was the best thing since sliced bread to the snp hoardes, now it's get rid and move on haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
Hey ho isn't really going to cut it here. The party is in utter turmoil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Day Soon
Could you get her to do a write up for some of the recent Midsomer Murders for me?
Cheers
:aok:
So in your way of thinking you can't find out new information about someone and change your mind on them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunchie
For what it's worth both Sturgeon and Salmond were pretty much head and shoulders above any other politician of their day, none of any of the information that's come out about either of them since changes that
100% correct. That’s a good thing. It’s not people you should follow. It’s ideas. It’s policy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunchie
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It is in turmoil. And soon it won’t be. That’s how it works.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
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Indeed. The two are inseparable, so unless those who still think independence would be a good thing find a new vehicle for achieving it their stance is now pretty much reduced to: 'We don't want those shambolic Tory eejits running our country so we're sticking by our own bunch of shambolic SNP eejits.'Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunchie
:top marksQuote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
I can list lots of issues and scandals that are higher up the agenda than the corruption within the SNP, but that’s beside the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunchie
Independence has been dead for a long time, despite what some on here like to believe - however, we have a cultish 45% (give or take) who would have voted for the SNP no matter what. They don’t care that this government has failed on virtually every metric - they want an independent Scotland and would vote SNP even if Sturgeon personally shat in their cornflakes every morning.
My hope now, as this case unravels, that some will wake up. I clearly fundamentally disagree with nationalists on independence, that’s fine - but they need to stop voting for this corrupt, dangerously “progressive” cabal and find a new avenue towards independence. I’m not sure there is anywhere for them to go though, so it will likely continue.
And what about Unionists voting for a even more corrupt bunch?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcbizz1998
We are being shafted on all sides and it's time we took our country back in the hands of Scots that want for the best for Scotland and it's people not corrupt politicians that are only looking out for themselves...
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Well as someone who fits that bill I would suggest that firstly, the 2 WILL be a separate issue once Independence is achieved. After Indy I would more likely vote independently, or for whichever party suited my agenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
The SNP are, to me and many others, a vehicle for Indy and no more. FWIW I liked Sturgeon, I thought she most of the Covid stuff right, but made mistakes too.
Re your point about shambolic eejits, the difference is that are the Conservative party in Westminster aren't shambolic, they're so brazen and transparent in their self interest that comparing the two is a bit laughable to be honest.
Having said that, this is no excuse for what has been going on here. Glass houses and stones etc.
Yeah... wasn't it the case it was the 2nd choice votes that meant he scraped over the line?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Cool, there’s plenty of threads to discuss them, this one’s for the SNP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiber-nation
You can’t excuse the SNPs actions by pointing to the Tories and shouting “but they did worse”.
That’s not going to cut it any longer.
Unionist coalition at Holyrood in 2026, followed by a deliberate stripping away of all the things devolution has given us to make independence as unattractive as possible. Ross or whoever the Tory deputy leader is might fancy a cheeky wee referendum on scrapping Holyrood altogether too.
Thanks, Sturgeon. Thought there might be one politician that wasn't as corrupt at the rest of them.
Predictable maybe :greengrin
Attachment 26648
He got more 1st choice votes than Regan & Forbes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Alf
What I am having trouble understanding is why the police have erected a forensic tent if they are only looking for documents 🤷*♂️
Got to make a show.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
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It was Murrell. In the study. With the mask, stripit t-shirt and a bag labelled 'LOOT' :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by One Day Soon
Stolen from elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/u...d8726ff1a0.png
You could have disguised your whataboutery a bit better by avoiding actually using ‘and what about’ at the start of the sentence! [emoji3]Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven79
Multiple definitions of all those terms so you could argue it in any direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
In politics, in our current age, I would suggest 'corruption' is generally used about personal gain derived from bribery, inducements etc. That makes it different from theft and fraud, where the personal gain is achieved by the miscreant themself.
Of course, if you are arguing that Murrell and even Sturgeon are morally corrupt or morally bankrupt, say, I would have to ponder that. I will let you know the outcome of my deliberations :agree:
Not literally :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
As for metaphorically, no. They were good tacticians early on, but if Sturgeon ever had a strategy it fell apart or got lost. As for Salmond, the thing that stood out for me most was that when he had male opponents he could outspar them often. When it was female opponents he was poor. Annabel Goldie regularly pricked his pomposity and given where her party was at, that shouldn't have been possible.
You are doing a great job typing while simultaneously ccrossing your fingers :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Why not? Seems a reasonable approach to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Has she been arrested too?Quote:
Originally Posted by Diclonius
I seem to recall recently that many posters on here were defending Murrell and the missing £600k that was ring fenced, with great explanations on how the money did not have to be physically in possession or in a bank….but would appear when required :faf::faf: funny the Polis and the Fiscal who is lead on this investigation think otherwise
A lot of SNP supporters / voters are probably feeling really let down by recent events, and rightly so.
We had years of Sturgeon and Blackford preaching to everyone. Let's see what they've got to say now, if anything. The days of them being able to mock those of who don't want Indy are over.
If you're going to slate everyone else, you really need to make sure your own house is in order first.
Swag, surely? He's not an amateur. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
Who? SNP voters? Fwiw, I still think an independent Scotland in the EU is by far the best (somewhat achievable) option to a better society here in the long term. Hope that helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
'Woven through the accounts' was the fudged explanation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Probably. It did have big dollar signs on it though!Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Cheers, must've misread it..Quote:
Originally Posted by Since90+2
100% 👍Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
He got 48% to Forbes 40% 1st pref, 52-48 once Ash Regan's votes were redistributed. You had to get over 50% to win 1st round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Alf
Will you be voting Tory again?Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
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Tweet from the recently-retired general secretary of the Scottish Police Federation:
https://i0.wp.com/wingsoverscotland....60%2C141&ssl=1
Certainly true to say that few journalists were bold enough to dip their toes in this murky story when Sturgeon was still in her pomp. The party's implosion since her unexpected (maybe less so in the light of today's developments) resignation has been more spectacular than even its biggest opponents could have hoped for.
To date, the strategy of unionist parties to keep the independence 'wolf' from the door, has been entirely focused on defeating the SNP.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
I've always thought that was a flawed strategy. Unionists would have been much more successful in their cause by putting forward a positive case for the Union and winning over the hearts and minds of the ~50% of Scots who want independence.
The SNP right now are clearly in turmoil, but do unionists like yourself really believe that ~50% of Scots are just going to give up and go away? If so, then more fool you. Personally, it just makes me more determined to find a route through to independence. One thing is for sure, I will never vote for a unionist party again as a result of the deceitful way they acted during the 2014 referendum.
The SNP were always a vehicle to achieving independence. If a vehicle stutters or breaks down, it will either be repaired and keep going or be replaced.
The current turmoil in the SNP has probably set the delivery timetable for independence back a year or two. In truth though, I think the independence cause needed some time to refocus in any case.
Enjoy your glee and popcorn while it lasts :aok:
Indeed. Sturgeon. Murky. SNP. Pomp. Sturgeon. Implosion. SNP. Fudged. Sturgeon.
Am I doing this right?
I understand Murrell has been arrested, but has he actually been charged with any offence?
According to some on here, he's been found guilty already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Curried
Do a Wordcloud, you know you want to 😀Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeRussell
No one has said he has been found guilty. He’s not been charged with anything yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Unless you know something! Spill!!
It’s over mate, you lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes
Is a lack of transparency when it comes to self-interest any more laudable? His lies about the membership figures led to Murrell's resignation, while his lack of transparency over the 'ring-fenced funds' appears to have led to his arrest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
I find this 'just a vehicle for indy' line hard to swallow incidentally. It seems little more than a way of sidestepping criticism of the SNP because, hey, it's only independence that matters no matter how clapped-out the vehicle which drives it may be.
As I've said a few times on here I've never been a fan of the SNP. When I was younger they were rammed with weirdos. I can't remember but I may have voted for them once inthe 80s as a protest vote. I voted similarly for the Communist Party in Edinburgh East which was just to piss off the SWP guy who I knew and he was a pompous ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes
I voted SNP in the last election which is the first time I consciously voted for them to win. Will reconsider that when the election comes around. I feel for those SNP followers who have been let down by Murrel. Whatever books he's cooked he is out of order.
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You see the Tories/Labour as a vehicle against independence, just switch the tactic around - that will help you understand why some people vote for the SNP whilst not necessarily wanting them to run an independent Scotland for ever more.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
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It’s a mystery to me why the SWP always seem to be populated by utter imbeciles. I’d be tempted by some of their ideas if some of the individuals weren’t so objectionable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
In a nutshell really. Members of the SNP could be guilty of absolutely anything and it wouldn’t make me think even for a second that Scotland are better off in the union.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes
Assuming the man is as guilty as some posters have already decided he is of course.
I don't. I want to see a Labour Party elected for the UK, not as part of constitutional politics in Scotland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
Because it's cultish?Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
😂 Thanks but already got the boak just typing them above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
Lost what? Has there been a contest? If you say so that's fine. You'll have rude awakening one day :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Mcbizz1998
We did lose in 2014 and I can remember unionist friends telling me then, that was the end of the SNP. It wasn't of course and they went from strength to strength. However, as I said previously, it was never about defeating the SNP anyway. It's all about independence and always has been and unionists so far have failed to put up a positive case for the union.
And your complacency continues.......
It’s a common misconception on here if you don’t accept the mindless SNP/Nicola Sturgeon obsessive attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
I’ve admittedly voted SNP many times. But I’m only devoted to independence.
I didn't say it was more laudable.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
I literally said whats happened is not good enough. I'm not sure how much clearer you want me to make it. If he's found guilty he will, rightly, face punishment and it will be a huge blow to the SNP.
Re the vehicle for indy line, if for example Labour offered a route to independence - which they aren't and looks like never will - they'd hoover up a huge number of votes. They're not, which is why the SNP are so popular, and that is not going away, even with the latest issues. Salmonds problems didn't have any impact as a former leader, and I'm not 100% convinced this will either, it all depends on what he gets charged with and if he gets convicted.
It's a perverse example but it's like Brexit supporters voting Tory for the first time because they were offered a referendum.
It seemed to me to be full of men (men in particular) who were pedants to the nth degree, maybe more modern diagnosis would see them on the spectrum somewhat. Fully devoted to appearing considerably more Left-Wing than whoever they were talking down to. As a teenager there were a couple who tried to indoctrinate the youth in Niddrie and made the mistake of thinking that, Niddron = stupid. Jumped on the Rock Against Racism movement and tried to own it, clowns. The guy I'm talking about above was a particular kind of twat. No wonder they fail. I've always been in favour of capitalism with a very strong social contract and education as to why that is good for all concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
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Those mindless attacks coupled with a ho-hum attitude to Tory corruption, against which all other corruption pales is just weird IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeRussell
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Fine, but I wasn't referring to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
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I’ve just read a few articles about this.
I may be wrong, but essentially there were 2 fundraisers where £600,000 were raised. This money was to be ringfenced for an indyref2 campaign. People donated the money for this cause only
There were then 2 general elections and the SNP were a bit skint, so that money was maybe used for that purpose and not for it’s intended purpose?
Wings over Scotland then started questioning where the ring fenced money was, obviously it wasn’t where it was suppose to be and that is the basis of the scandal?
Apologies if completely wrong
That's me told!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
Lock him up!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
That is of course used for for official party business or if was invested in Murrell’s back pocketQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
Of course, if he has swindled it then he’s goosed but if the money was indeed used for SNP purposes, can he then argue that using to gain more MP’s in Westminster then this does further the independence cause?Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Are you saying they may have won an election on the back of dodgy payments? We have precedent here. Dissolve the party and let a new one known as The SNP start life again in the lower tier Community Council elections. Anyone walking away will be forever ridiculed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
That’s politics. The cause is worth more than one person. Salmond and Sturgeon all know that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunchie
J
Yousaf says he doesn't think Murrells impending arrest was the reason NS stood down, I'd say the majority would be sceptical
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...s-not-29637773
Digging the garden up apparently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
That’s how the Alternative Voting system works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Alf
J
Spoken like a true Brexiteer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcbizz1998
As if politics ends the day after a referendum.
J
Mad taking pictures of the bbq too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Betty Boop
Connor Gillies
@ConnorGilliesskynews
·
NEW: Detectives seen with a spade & garden equipment in the rear garden of Peter Murrell and Nicola Sturgeon’s Glasgow home.
Officers spotted with blue tarpaulin sheets, a stills camera and laptop as they examine the area around the garage
I think this thread title is a perfect response to him!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
I always did wonder what happened to James.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Is he under the patio, or has he been served up at their leaving do?
Attachment 26651Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Joking aside Murrell may be completely innocent in which case Yousaf has backed the right horse all along.
Trevor Jordache found under the patio
You can't bury your past. Not in politics.
https://twitter.com/DUDGEY71/status/...480871936?s=20Quote:
Originally Posted by heretoday
Was it Nicola in the kitchen with the filleting knife?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Sturgeon and Blackford. I named them in my post.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
But yeah, it equally applies to anyone else I suppose. The SNP were meant to be the squeaky clean party in UK politics, stones and glass houses etc.
Is NS really still saying she stepped down because she felt like it? Does anyone, even the staunchest SNP supporter, believe that anymore?
It's a huge issue, and it appears she lied about it.
Ay, but she didn’t knowingly do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
Firstly, what does this have to do with Independence? The arguments for Scotland being an independent country are not dependent on the SNP.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Secondly, did you feel "mocked" for supporting the Tories and being against independence?
That's absolute rubbish. I mean it never stopped the Tories did it? They criticise all the other parties but their house is not exactly spotless.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
I get that, but the big difference is that for those who vote tactically against the SNP it's by and large irrelevant who's leading Labour or the Tories. It's an anti-independence vote full stop. For a vastly greater number of SNP voters Sturgeon and her administration embodied independence. She was a cult-like figure for them. I just don't buy the sudden rush to dismiss her as yesterday's news once scandal rears its head. Claims she was only a vehicle for independence smack of hasty revisionism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
It wasn't clear whether "they" referred back to SNP voters or Sturge/Black. :aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
I wouldn't imagine either will be saying much for the time being ...
No, she was sitting in the corner wearing her blindfold and earmuffs as usual. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
If he was under 25 years’ old it would be 20 hours community service.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumble de Thump
:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Aye, ok then.
I always thought that when they said Nicola knew where the bodies were buried they were talking metaphorically.*Quote:
Originally Posted by Betty Boop
(*Not an original joke).
Your tactical vote = tickety-boo.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Everyone else's tactical vote = cult of personality.
Aye, OK then.
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The SNP are the vehicle for Independence rather than their leader. Anything that harms the SNP is bad news for Indi. I don't vote for them but they are the only party that will bring about Indi and they will have my vote if they ever manage to get another referendum. That looks further away every week that passesQuote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Earlier in the thread there was criticisms for turning our back on Sturgeon. Which is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
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Am I alone in wondering whether this tent in the garden thing is a touch over the top? Did they pitch a tent in Michelle Mone's garden? :confused:
No. I find it strange. Should add the strange bit, if true, is why would they be digging. I've not watched sky news so don't know if it's correct what's been posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Her yacht has a garden?Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
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Does seem a bit over the top although we don’t know what they are investigating yet. I bet they’ll be moving house after this though.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fs796Z7X...g&name=900x900Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
We'd reached a bit of a stalemate on indy. Whilst none of this is particularly good or welcome, the threat of it has been hanging for a while. It might be a case that we're currently taking steps back in order to take steps forward again.Quote:
Originally Posted by wookie70
It is pretty weird digging up the garden to be fair
Pretty interesting to find find out why
Looks more like a murder inquiry than a financial irregularity search
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The Murrell have full control of Police Scotland. They will just be getting their garden ready for summer for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Callum_62
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