(Soon to be) Former President Donald Trump

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

DeSantis has actually trod a middle ground on abortion, he favours a ban on 15 weeks and exemptions for abuse, clearly because he's been advised that the full fat reversal of Roe v wade a net vote loser as a policy. The religious extremism you see in Alabama, Georgia and across the MidWest is less of an issue in Florida, than in other Red States.

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If you're middle ground is that far extreme as desantis it's far away from mine. We'd be rightly in absolute uproar if it came in in Scotland

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/25/ron-desantis-florida-governor-abortion-charlie-crist

Ron DeSantis, was put on the defensive by his Democratic challenger, Charlie Crist, on subjects including abortion and DeSantis’s presidential ambitions.

Crist called Florida’s 15-week abortion ban, which does not include exceptions for rape or incest, “callous and barbaric”

DeSantis said he was proud of the ban but would not say if he supported further restrictions. He also made a string of false claims.
“I’m proud of the 15 weeks that we did. I know Charlie Crist opposes that even though the baby is fully formed, has a heartbeat, can feel pain and can suck their thumb.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/23/ron-desantis-andrew-warren-abortion-ban-lawsuit-trial
DeSantis to face trial for suspension of prosecutor who defied abortion ban law
Andrew Warren, a Democrat, sued Florida governor for suspension after saying he would not enforce new 15-week abortion law

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

If you're middle ground is that far extreme as desantis it's far away from mine. We'd be rightly in absolute uproar if it came in in Scotland

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...-charlie-crist

Ron DeSantis, was put on the defensive by his Democratic challenger, Charlie Crist, on subjects including abortion and DeSantis’s presidential ambitions.

Crist called Florida’s 15-week abortion ban, which does not include exceptions for rape or incest, “callous and barbaric”

DeSantis said he was proud of the ban but would not say if he supported further restrictions. He also made a string of false claims.
“I’m proud of the 15 weeks that we did. I know Charlie Crist opposes that even though the baby is fully formed, has a heartbeat, can feel pain and can suck their thumb.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...-lawsuit-trial
DeSantis to face trial for suspension of prosecutor who defied abortion ban law
Andrew Warren, a Democrat, sued Florida governor for suspension after saying he would not enforce new 15-week abortion law

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Its nothing to do with what we'd define as extreme in Scotland. You said 'He's equally as anti-abortion as Trumps gang'. i was just pointing out that's not the case. They will pick and choose the individual causes they trumpet based on the dynamics of their home state.

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

Its nothing to do with what we'd define as extreme in Scotland. You said 'He's equally as anti-abortion as Trumps gang'. i was just pointing out that's not the case. They will pick and choose the individual causes they trumpet based on the dynamics of their home state.

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Weird thing to pick out. He only chose 15 weeks because he knew he'd win that, in 2018 he supported dropping it to be banned after 6 weeks even in cases of rape. That's obviously a near full ban as most don't know before this. He's not stating what he thinks personally because he's tied into his presidential bid
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/ncna1296843

He's very pro trump and has ran on that

More trump allies will be disappointed with the lack of a red tsunami and that's Putin and chums

https://archive.ph/jX6Yu

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Weird thing to pick out. He only chose 15 weeks because he knew he'd win that, in 2018 he supported dropping it to be banned after 6 weeks even in cases of rape. That's obviously a near full ban as most don't know before this. He's not stating what he thinks personally because he's tied into his presidential bid
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.msn...mp/ncna1296843

He's very pro trump and has ran on that

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Is he not probably Trump's biggest rival?

I have a "mate" who is into his politics and incredibly right wing (we lock horns quite a lot).

He's a huge fan of De Santis - all the right wingness of Trump but without the toxicity.


I'm somewhat relieved that Trump appears to be fairly toxic, although not naive enough to expect that any republican alternative is likely to be much better in practice.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Is he not probably Trump's biggest rival?

I have a "mate" who is into his politics and incredibly right wing (we lock horns quite a lot).

He's a huge fan of De Santis - all the right wingness of Trump but without the toxicity.


I'm somewhat relieved that Trump appears to be fairly toxic, although not naive enough to expect that any republican alternative is likely to be much better in practice.

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Biggest rival for victory, but similar parts of the party unfortunately. As someone said perhaps more dangerous than trump as he's not seen as a joke but his politics are vile. Many love him because he famously tried to reject all lockdown measures in Florida during covid, the massive deaths prove how that went

His famous line is, florida is where woke goes to die

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Weird thing to pick out. He only chose 15 weeks because he knew he'd win that, in 2018 he supported dropping it to be banned after 6 weeks even in cases of rape. That's obviously a near full ban as most don't know before this. He's not stating what he thinks personally because he's tied into his presidential bid
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/ncna1296843

He's very pro trump and has ran on that

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It’s well known De Santis had taken a less extreme position on abortion than others on that wing of the party. You obviously didn’t know that, that’s fine, but don’t deflect for the sake of it. You have a real problem with doubling down after your mistakes. Just own it and move on.

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

It’s well known De Santis had taken a less extreme position on abortion than others on that wing of the party. You obviously didn’t know that, that’s fine, but don’t deflect for the sake of it. You have a real problem with doubling down after your mistakes. Just own it and move on.

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What... He campaigned for it banned after 6 weeks including rape, that's the extreme side of even the republican party. I'm well aware that he's anti abortion thats why i said it because he is. The article says he isn't committing on his position, so probably only well known in your head. Yes there is more extreme but the majority are less so

In this article they say they expect de Santis to go to war on woke. They also expect him to push for an abortion ban down to 6 weeks. Since most don't find out until around this date it's verging on banning abortion in Florida

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tam...outputType=amp

He's also trying to change it so a jury doesn't have to be unanimous to sentence someone to death, nutjob

Trumpet not happy

Jim Acosta
@Acosta
“Trump is livid” and “screaming at everyone,” after last night’s disappointing midterm results for GOP, according to a Trump adviser. The adviser went on to slam the former president’s handpicked contenders: “they were all bad candidates.” “Candidates matter,” the adviser said

This adviser said it’s unlikely Trump would delay his expected presidential announcement because “it’s too humiliating to delay.” But the adviser said there are too many unknowns at this point

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

What... He campaigned for it banned after 6 weeks including rape, that's the extreme side of even the republican party. I'm well aware that he's anti abortion thats why i said it because he is. The article says he isn't committing on his position, so probably only well known in your head. Yes there is more extreme but the majority are less so

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But you know that Kentucky and Louisiana lawmakers for example, have banned abortion in ALL circumstances? And there are a range of different limits across all states? So there are differences within the Republican establishment? And deSantis has now a position of 15 weeks and a continuation of state facilities? Do you accept that? It’s easier to get an abortion in New Orleans these days for you to accept you’ve said something incorrect FGS man :faf:

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

But you know that Kentucky and Louisiana lawmakers for example, have banned abortion in ALL circumstances? And there are a range of different limits across all states? So there are differences within the Republican establishment? And deSantis has now a position of 15 weeks and a continuation of state facilities? Do you accept that? It’s easier to get an abortion in New Orleans these days for you to accept you’ve said something incorrect FGS man :faf:

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I said he's trumpian in lots of issues including guns abortion, immigration ect, I stand by that. There will be some that are further right on the trump group on all they issues, but desantis is still insane.

He's dropped it to 15 weeks. He campaigned for 6 and that's what people expect him to do next. There will be some pro trump governors that will be less right than he is on other issues. The point is he's pro trump and to the right of the party.

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

But you know that Kentucky and Louisiana lawmakers for example, have banned abortion in ALL circumstances? And there are a range of different limits across all states? So there are differences within the Republican establishment? And deSantis has now a position of 15 weeks and a continuation of state facilities? Do you accept that? It’s easier to get an abortion in New Orleans these days for you to accept you’ve said something incorrect FGS man :faf:

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Kentucky voters have put a stop to that last night.

https://twitter.com/ap/status/159033...5ANBJUb0EX-WdA


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Kentucky voters have put a stop to that last night.

https://twitter.com/ap/status/159033...5ANBJUb0EX-WdA


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Abortion rights have been a killer for reps in alot of states. The female/male rep dem voter difference in pennsylvania was mad, female vote basically won it for the dems against pro abortion Mehmet Oz

Even further divide than uk left right by age, more akin to Scots independence votes. Well done the yoof

John Della Volpe
@dellavolpe
·
11h
One thing I know already.

If not for voters under 30 ... tonight WOULD have been a Red Wave.

CNN National House Exit Poll

R+ 13 65+
R+ 11 45-64

D +2 30-44
D +28 18-29

#GenZ did their job

Republicans win Wisconsin. Senate remains too close to call.

Not well versed on the mechanics of US politics but am I right in thinking that with the Republicans seemingly certain to win back control of the House, even if the Democrats edge the Senate Biden is pretty much screwed in terms of trying to pass any legislation?

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Republicans win Wisconsin. Senate remains too close to call.

Not well versed on the mechanics of US politics but am I right in thinking that with the Republicans seemingly certain to win back control of the House, even if the Democrats edge the Senate Biden is pretty much screwed in terms of trying to pass any legislation?

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Looking like the Dems will hold the senate. Arizona pretty much in the bag and almost caught up in Nevada with 100K or so postal votes to count which should favour them. They'd also be favourites to win the Georgia runoff, especially if Trump makes a lot of noise between now and Dec 6. He's widely tipped to announce his candidacy for 2024 in the next couple of weeks.

The House of Representatives is still in play also, although the Dems need the majority of the remaining close calls to go their way. Republicans still favourites.

You are right that both chambers need to pass legislation but voting against party and compromises "across the aisle" are more common than they are in Westminster politics. But it's true it gives Biden a big headache in terms of getting anything remotely controversial done.

projected win for Democrats in Arizona will mean it's 49-49

Nevada looks incredibly close with republicans just 821 ahead at the moment with Est vote in 94%

Rep- Laxalt

48.5% 467,208

Dems- Masto

48.4% 466,387


it will be hilarious if Masto wins by one vote, after 20 recounts :greengrin Laxalt is a trump-endorsed 2020 election denier


House is now

Democrats -203
Republicans - 211


218 controls the House

Democrats keep control of the Senate

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Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

Democrats keep control of the Senate

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And still have a shot at the house (apparently)

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@theipaper
🔴 Exclusive: Rupert Murdoch has told Donald Trump that he will not back any attempt by the former president to return to the White House and could even back a Democrat against him, sources close to the media mogul have told
@theipaper

It is understood that News Corp and Fox News chairman Mr Murdoch has, in the past few days, made it clear to Mr Trump that the poor showing from the Republican candidates he backed during the US midterm elections has put an end to his political career.

One senior News Corp source told
@theipaper
: “We have been clear with Donald.

“There have been conversations between them during which Rupert made it clear to Donald that we cannot back another run for the White House.”

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

@theipaper
🔴 Exclusive: Rupert Murdoch has told Donald Trump that he will not back any attempt by the former president to return to the White House and could even back a Democrat against him, sources close to the media mogul have told
@theipaper

It is understood that News Corp and Fox News chairman Mr Murdoch has, in the past few days, made it clear to Mr Trump that the poor showing from the Republican candidates he backed during the US midterm elections has put an end to his political career.

One senior News Corp source told
@theipaper
: “We have been clear with Donald.

“There have been conversations between them during which Rupert made it clear to Donald that we cannot back another run for the White House.”

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I do hope this is true.

I know there are loads of right wing republicans I'll despise sitting in the wings, but I just do not want to see that disgusting monster Trump back in the White House ever again.

ABT.

Another nutcase bites the dust in Arizona.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

I do hope this is true.

I know there are loads of right wing republicans I'll despise sitting in the wings, but I just do not want to see that disgusting monster Trump back in the White House ever again.

ABT.

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Best case is the Republicans pick DeSantis and Trump stands as an independent, drawing enough of the nutter vote for a Dem landslide. Quite plausible.

Paperwork filed, he's running in 2024.

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Originally Posted by Haymaker

Paperwork filed, he's running in 2024.

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Time to put him in jail and stop him

De Santis now favourite to be nominated, horrible nutter. Pray for a Biden win

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

De Santis now favourite to be nominated, horrible nutter. Pray for a Biden win

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Not without a big fight though. Even if De Santis wins, do Trump supporters accept defeat and then rally behind De Santis? With Trump, it’s never going to be a clean fight.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Not without a big fight though. Even if De Santis wins, do Trump supporters accept defeat and then rally behind De Santis? With Trump, it’s never going to be a clean fight.


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I doubt they will stop at any point, they are definitely at the point of being a cult now

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Not without a big fight though. Even if De Santis wins, do Trump supporters accept defeat and then rally behind De Santis? With Trump, it’s never going to be a clean fight.


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He's mental enough to run as an independent candidate and lots of his followers would vote for him which would split the republican vote even more

He lost the popular vote by 3M vs Clinton then by something like 7M vs Biden. Just look at the Trump backed candidates in the mid terms... he ain't winning in 2024.

I'd be more worried about De Santis tbh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Not without a big fight though. Even if De Santis wins, do Trump supporters accept defeat and then rally behind De Santis? With Trump, it’s never going to be a clean fight.


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Here's the two things I think could happen:

1) him and DeSantis fight it out, DeSantis wins the nomination, Trump throws toys out of pram and his supporters don't vote for RD. Dems win.

2) him and DeSantis fight it out, DeSantis wins the nomination, Trump throws toys out of pram and runs as an independent splitting the R vote. Dems win "Biggly".

Republicans get 218 seats and win the House

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Republicans get 218 seats and win the House

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Sounds like fun and games on the way

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ection-results

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Quite amazing midterms for Biden. There is usually a huge shift from the incumbent at mid terms. I think every analysis predicted there would be a huge rep majority in both houses. Think it kills trumps chances

Are the rumours that Trump has a dossier of dirt on De Santos true, that could ruin any run he would have? Having said that I think it was only Trump that has said that so it is more than likely untrue. Love it when Republicans go after each other, it tends to mean a democrat in the WH. De Santos is a dangerous man and like Trump a despot in waiting.

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Originally Posted by Oscar T Grouch

Are the rumours that Trump has a dossier of dirt on De Santos true, that could ruin any run he would have? Having said that I think it was only Trump that has said that so it is more than likely untrue. Love it when Republicans go after each other, it tends to mean a democrat in the WH. De Santos is a dangerous man and like Trump a despot in waiting.

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Thankfully Trumps presidency
went decades without starting a new war apparently

[emoji106]

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How many court cases are pending against Trump?

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Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4

He's mental enough to run as an independent candidate and lots of his followers would vote for him which would split the republican vote even more

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That would be wonderful.

J

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

defeat for Palin, only for a few months, but.. Democrat Mary Peltola defeats Sarah Palin to become first Native Alaskan woman to win congressional race (msn.com)

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double defeat for Sarah Palin, all good
Sarah Palin mercilessly mocked on Twitter after Alaska election loss to Mary Peltola: ‘I can see her defeat from my house’ (msn.com)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63754702

Just when you think the US can't get any crazier.

a man of god my ******* erky, in a country full of guns Right-wing pastor celebrates Club Q massacre as 'good thing' in hate-filled sermon (msn.com)




mind you though the father of the shooter is one vile piece of human garbage as well

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaveF

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63754702

Just when you think the US can't get any crazier.

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He's ill and he needs help.

Donald Trump had a meeting with anti semite nutter Kanye West and horrible racist Nick Fuentes.

https://www.dw.com/en/trump-under-fi...n-all-1573-rdf

A thread on just how far right Fuentes is, very dangerous legitimising the wee creep
https://mobile.twitter.com/bennyjohn...04409607794688

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Donald Trump had a meeting with anti semite nutter Kanye West and horrible racist Nick Fuentes.

https://www.dw.com/en/trump-under-fi...n-all-1573-rdf

A thread on just how far right Fuentes is, very dangerous legitimising the wee creep
https://mobile.twitter.com/bennyjohn...04409607794688

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This is the guy that's Israel's best friend 😂.

Jeez Kanye west has just gone on Alex Jones info wars show with nick Fuentes. Kanye has said, I like Hitler and I like the nazis. Jones sheepishly disagreed but let them spout

https://mobile.twitter.com/deonteleo...85704937357312
Kanye: “I don’t like the word ‘evil’ next to Nazis… I love Jewish people, but I also love Nazis

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClownWorl...88406568255488
The nazis did good things too, we have to stop dissing the nazis

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Jeez Kanye west has just gone on Alex Jones info wars show with nick Fuentes. Kanye has said, I like Hitler and I like the nazis. Jones sheepishly disagreed but let them spout

https://mobile.twitter.com/deonteleo...85704937357312
Kanye: “I don’t like the word ‘evil’ next to Nazis… I love Jewish people, but I also love Nazis

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClownWorl...88406568255488
The nazis did good things too, we have to stop dissing the nazis

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That guy needs to be sectioned for his own good.

Fuentes and Kanye say they support both Putin and Russia. Stupid little bairns who need shown round the remains of a concentration camp. They think everything is fun but the hatred they incite is real

https://mobile.twitter.com/nexta_tv/...38337039196160

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

He's ill and he needs help.

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Yup, sadly like many rich/famous people he's probably surrounded by hangers on who don't want to help him for fear of losing their meal ticket.

twitter suspension for kanye west Kanye West suspended from Twitter after posting swastika inside Star of David | Kanye West | The Guardian

as expected, alex jones files for bankruptcy Alex Jones files for bankruptcy following $1.5 billion Sandy Hook verdicts | Reuters


no doubt a wad will be hidden under a settee somewhere, it was crazy fines he was given in the first place as there's no way he would be able to pay them

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Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

as expected, alex jones files for bankruptcy Alex Jones files for bankruptcy following $1.5 billion Sandy Hook verdicts | Reuters


no doubt a wad will be hidden under a settee somewhere, it was crazy fines he was given in the first place as there's no way he would be able to pay them

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According to the lawyer representing the families filling for bankruptcy won't protect him. Any payments may be delayed though

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Originally Posted by davy67 +

According to the lawyer representing the families filling for bankruptcy won't protect him. Any payments may be delayed though

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i don't understand why the judge fined him so much knowing full well he would never be able to pay they huge fines, he looks to have got away with shifting $61m last year because he probably knew which way this was going, the account analysts reckoned he maybe had up to $260m so why did the judge not just fine him say $150-160m and at least the families would have got something, this just looks like he's got away with shifting cash and sticking two fingers up, i hope that's not the case :dunno:


either way he's not going to be poor

New York finds him GUILTY.

Trump firm guilty of defrauding tax authorities for more than 15 years (msn.com)


the accountant will be taking the rap

for a price

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

Trump firm guilty of defrauding tax authorities for more than 15 years (msn.com)


the accountant will be taking the rap

for a price

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Sounds like there may be more charges as the summing up mentioned Trump as having "ok'd tax fraud".

He is the wriggle meister though.

https://twitter.com/robertmdaws/stat...THQkT0fjA&s=08

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Warnock beats Walker in the Georgia runoff


the Dems already had control but that's now 51-49 and shouldn't need kamala harris for any tie-breaking vote

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kato

Sounds like there may be more charges as the summing up mentioned Trump as having "ok'd tax fraud".

He is the wriggle meister though.

https://twitter.com/robertmdaws/stat...THQkT0fjA&s=08

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Teflon Don, if he ever did have to pay a fine he would just get his believers to pay it :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

Teflon Don, if he ever did have to pay a fine he would just get his believers to pay it :rolleyes:

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That's because he's smart.

good, a Judge has lifted the bankruptcy protections that were put in place Judge strips Alex Jones of bankruptcy protections for $1.5 billion Sandy Hook debt - Raw Story - Celebrating 18 Years of Independent Journalism

Lock him up, lock him up!

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Lock him up, lock him up!

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Maybe they'll build a wall?

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****ing spiv

https://nypost.com/2022/12/21/trumps...5-2020-report/

Trumps paid $0 in taxes in 2020, reported negative income 4 times in 6 years, returns reveal

What's it with right wing ***** storming government buildings, now Brazil

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCBreaki...67907982589952

Biden had classified files at his home also

https://www.dw.com/en/white-house-sa...ome/a-64370287

2/1 favourite for the next election, jeez.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidJoll...76640430006273

@DavidJollyFL
It's easy to get numb to this stuff, but the DeSantis administration just banned the standardized AP African American Studies course from Florida High Schools, writing that such a topic "lacked educational value

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/21/u...documents.html

FBI search Bidens home and find more classified docs.

Think this is the 4th tranche.

Mike Pence: Classified documents found at former vice-president's home - BBC News

Classified documents have been found at former US Vice-President Mike Pence's home in the latest secret paper discovery.

The documents, discovered by a lawyer last week for Mr Pence at his Indiana home, have been handed over to the FBI.


Special counsels are already looking at the handling of classified documents by President Joe Biden and ex-President Donald Trump.


Mr Trump faces a criminal investigation for allegedly mishandling files.


Representatives for Mr Pence sent a letter to the National Archives alerting them to the documents.


aah the orange man showing some affection for pence...


After the letter became public, Mr Trump quickly came to Mr Pence's defence, taking to his Truth Social social media platform to say that he is "an innocent man".


"He never did anything knowingly dishonest in his life," Mr Trump wrote. "Leave him alone!!!"


wasn't that long ago the Trump was saying this


Wyoming Republican Rep. Liz Cheney alleged Thursday that then-President Donald Trump said during last year’s Capitol riot that Vice President Mike Pence “deserves” to be hanged as Trump supporters chanted “hang Mike Pence.”

Damn she's good.

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1621...css4ohFCkVhWhQ

aw poor Taylor Greene....yet again

Marjorie Taylor Greene mocked for gushing over ‘anti-woke’ Super Bowl country star - not realising he’s a BLM activist (msn.com)

Fox reporters knew privately the stolen election claims were nonsense

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-b2284710.html

Jimmy Carter is now Receiving Hospice care at Home, 98 is really quite an incredible age and not many couples will reach a 75th wedding anniversary

Former US President Jimmy Carter to receive hospice care - BBC News





apologies i maybe shouldn't have included this on a thread regarding that vile creature Trump

How many people have crossed the border ???? :greengrin

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FptB57ta...g&name=900x900

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Originally Posted by grunt

How many people have crossed the border ???? :greengrin

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FptB57ta...g&name=900x900

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An awfy lot of them must have gone back straight away. Mexico must be absolutely heaving!

What a horrible, horrible lady.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Glory Lurker

An awfy lot of them must have gone back straight away. Mexico must be absolutely heaving!

What a horrible, horrible lady.

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Not very good with her Math eh? there's only 8 billion people in the world, 3 quarters have crossed into USA hahaha

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcas...=1000602507614

Second half of yesterday’s Newsagents podcast is about the massive lawsuit Fox News is facing and looks like losing $1.6bn over is fascinating.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcas...=1000602507614

Second half of yesterday’s Newsagents podcast is about the massive lawsuit Fox News is facing and looks like losing $1.6bn over is fascinating.


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Excellent. This is the electronic voting company I think?

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Originally Posted by One Day Soon

Excellent. This is the electronic voting company I think?

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Yes, they make the counting machines.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Yes, they make the counting machines.


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Some commentators claiming Murdoch is guilty of sedition, given he knew the facts yet allowed his newsreaders to broadcast the opposite of those facts. The newsreaders knew the facts also, yet were happy to lie.

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Originally Posted by Kato

Some commentators claiming Murdoch is guilty of sedition, given he knew the facts yet allowed his newsreaders to broadcast the opposite of those facts. The newsreaders knew the facts also, yet were happy to lie.

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It really looks like Murdoch's evidence has sunk Fox's defence. Some of Sydney Powell's 'info' came from a source that claimed they could time travel. Lots of twists and turns to come, but this is serious.

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Originally Posted by archie

It really looks like Murdoch's evidence has sunk Fox's defence. Some of Sydney Powell's 'info' came from a source that claimed they could time travel. Lots of twists and turns to come, but this is serious.

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Trial in April.

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Getting arrested Tuesday apparently.[emoji122]


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he's at it again, this nasty **** is going to get innocent Americans killed Trump’s chilling warning of what will happen after his indictment (msn.com) he's deliberately inciting the morons, a PoS this world will be a better place without

Today is meant to be the day he's arrested. Is it just me watching on with morbid curiosity to see what happens? I worry there will be some big problems and potentially loss of life given the rhetoric coming from him and his supporters. I'd have been inclined to let Trump away with whatever they think he has done and try to get him to fade away into the background, the pursuit of him only seems to be fueling the fire in his supporters and making things worse IMHO. There comes a point where decisions have to be made for the greater good and, whilst he may be a criminal and an all around bad guy, is this pursuit of charges against him in the interest of the greater good?

I'm really struggling to see how the USA resolves this whole situation, there's such a divide between the two political parties and it seems to be getting pushed wider and everyone is becoming so entrenched. All the political leaders in that country need to take a step back and look at what effect their words and actions are having and start working towards reconciliation rather than further antagonisation which already has led to, and could ultimately lead to more, pretty nasty stuff happening. There's even talk from politicians about separating red and blue states, which would have been unheard of 10 years ago.

Sadly twitter and "new media" whilst they can be a force for good, has been a massive part of the antagonisation and entrenchment of both sides, it definitely seems like where people would have worked together in the past and come to compromises to allow both sides of the political spectrum to live and work together they won't even compromise one bit on either side now. The views of more moderate people on both sides has been completely drowned out by the very vocal extremists who in the past wouldn't have had a platform for their extremism to allow it to filter out to other people.

Unfortunately we can see that sort of thing creeping into UK politics and it's not nice to see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sergio sledge

Today is meant to be the day he's arrested. Is it just me watching on with morbid curiosity to see what happens? I worry there will be some big problems and potentially loss of life given the rhetoric coming from him and his supporters. I'd have been inclined to let Trump away with whatever they think he has done and try to get him to fade away into the background, the pursuit of him only seems to be fueling the fire in his supporters and making things worse IMHO. There comes a point where decisions have to be made for the greater good and, whilst he may be a criminal and an all around bad guy, is this pursuit of charges against him in the interest of the greater good?

I'm really struggling to see how the USA resolves this whole situation, there's such a divide between the two political parties and it seems to be getting pushed wider and everyone is becoming so entrenched. All the political leaders in that country need to take a step back and look at what effect their words and actions are having and start working towards reconciliation rather than further antagonisation which already has led to, and could ultimately lead to more, pretty nasty stuff happening. There's even talk from politicians about separating red and blue states, which would have been unheard of 10 years ago.

Sadly twitter and "new media" whilst they can be a force for good, has been a massive part of the antagonisation and entrenchment of both sides, it definitely seems like where people would have worked together in the past and come to compromises to allow both sides of the political spectrum to live and work together they won't even compromise one bit on either side now. The views of more moderate people on both sides has been completely drowned out by the very vocal extremists who in the past wouldn't have had a platform for their extremism to allow it to filter out to other people.

Unfortunately we can see that sort of thing creeping into UK politics and it's not nice to see.

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Re the end of your first paragraph - it can never be in the greater good to turn a blind eye to wrongdoing and criminality because of the fear of repercussions. It only emboldens the wrongdoers.

America is a tinderbox right now but I don’t think fear should stop the right thing from happening. If he deserves to be arrested then he should be, the consequences of that dealt with even if scary, crazy stuff blows up.

The greater good is served by Trump being treated appropriately, arrested and charged if necessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sergio sledge

Today is meant to be the day he's arrested. Is it just me watching on with morbid curiosity to see what happens? I worry there will be some big problems and potentially loss of life given the rhetoric coming from him and his supporters. I'd have been inclined to let Trump away with whatever they think he has done and try to get him to fade away into the background, the pursuit of him only seems to be fueling the fire in his supporters and making things worse IMHO. There comes a point where decisions have to be made for the greater good and, whilst he may be a criminal and an all around bad guy, is this pursuit of charges against him in the interest of the greater good?

I'm really struggling to see how the USA resolves this whole situation, there's such a divide between the two political parties and it seems to be getting pushed wider and everyone is becoming so entrenched. All the political leaders in that country need to take a step back and look at what effect their words and actions are having and start working towards reconciliation rather than further antagonisation which already has led to, and could ultimately lead to more, pretty nasty stuff happening. There's even talk from politicians about separating red and blue states, which would have been unheard of 10 years ago.

Sadly twitter and "new media" whilst they can be a force for good, has been a massive part of the antagonisation and entrenchment of both sides, it definitely seems like where people would have worked together in the past and come to compromises to allow both sides of the political spectrum to live and work together they won't even compromise one bit on either side now. The views of more moderate people on both sides has been completely drowned out by the very vocal extremists who in the past wouldn't have had a platform for their extremism to allow it to filter out to other people.

Unfortunately we can see that sort of thing creeping into UK politics and it's not nice to see.

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I get your point to a certain extent but the one thing he's not doing is fading into the background - he's running for President again, and stands a decent chance of winning.

I'm not saying prosecute him to stop that. But he isn't going away, which leaves a choice to be made. And if he's committed crimes, he should be on trial like anyone else.

Justice isn't a movable object or to be used to help in elections ect. You can’t back down to nutters over the threat of violence from a few.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Re the end of your first paragraph - it can never be in the greater good to turn a blind eye to wrongdoing and criminality because of the fear of repercussions. It only emboldens the wrongdoers.

America is a tinderbox right now but I don’t think fear should stop the right thing from happening. If he deserves to be arrested then he should be, the consequences of that dealt with, even if scary, crazy stuff blows up.

The greater good is served by Trump being treated appropriately, arrested and charged if necessary.

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I understand that, but I wonder if we have to treat something like this almost like a war time situation because I'm fearful that the USA is lurching towards civil war if they are not careful.

It's not about turning a blind eye to things, and I'm certainly not saying this as any defense of Trump, he's a horrible man who should never have gotten to the position of president in the first place, but if acknowledging that further pursuit of him is stoking the fire and driving the counrty closer to issues would lead to a back off on both sides and a calming of the rhetoric then I think that would be worth it.

You only have to look at (clearly not the same scale, seriousness or impact) the likes of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa for an example of a country drawing a line in the sand, accepting the wrongs of the past but realising that the pursuit of prosecutions (in some cases) is not necessarily the best way to move on with life to try and bring the country together. (n.b. Admittedly there is some debate as to the success of this commission.)

The other agreement I that comes to mind is the Good Friday Peace Agreement where prisoner release was a big part of it. Drawing a line in the sand and trying to move forward.

The big question, as neil7908 mentions, would be whether he would fade into the background, which he is clearly not doing just now.

I think there was a time post January 6th where more moderate Republicans had come out in public against Trump and his support was probably at it's lowest ebb where he may have faded away if they could have maintained that momentum he would have been pretty irrelevant to the next election. Unfortunately I think the pursuit of Trump, however just it may be, has only led to a rise in support for him, even from moderates who think that he's being persecuted unfairly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sergio sledge

I understand that, but I wonder if we have to treat something like this almost like a war time situation because I'm fearful that the USA is lurching towards civil war if they are not careful.

It's not about turning a blind eye to things, and I'm certainly not saying this as any defense of Trump, he's a horrible man who should never have gotten to the position of president in the first place, but if acknowledging that further pursuit of him is stoking the fire and driving the counrty closer to issues would lead to a back off on both sides and a calming of the rhetoric then I think that would be worth it.

You only have to look at (clearly not the same scale, seriousness or impact) the likes of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa for an example of a country drawing a line in the sand, accepting the wrongs of the past but realising that the pursuit of prosecutions (in some cases) is not necessarily the best way to move on with life to try and bring the country together. (n.b. Admittedly there is some debate as to the success of this commission.)

The other agreement I that comes to mind is the Good Friday Peace Agreement where prisoner release was a big part of it. Drawing a line in the sand and trying to move forward.

The big question, as neil7908 mentions, would be whether he would fade into the background, which he is clearly not doing just now.

I think there was a time post January 6th where more moderate Republicans had come out in public against Trump and his support was probably at it's lowest ebb where he may have faded away if they could have maintained that momentum he would have been pretty irrelevant to the next election. Unfortunately I think the pursuit of Trump, however just it may be, has only led to a rise in support for him, even from moderates who think that he's being persecuted unfairly.

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I think it's really tricky. Personally I think he is as guilty as hell and everybody knows it. And justice should be applied equally. But he will weaponise it. I think it was Politico that made the point that it would energise 99% of his base. The problem for him is the 1% of the electorate it turns off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sergio sledge

I understand that, but I wonder if we have to treat something like this almost like a war time situation because I'm fearful that the USA is lurching towards civil war if they are not careful.

It's not about turning a blind eye to things, and I'm certainly not saying this as any defense of Trump, he's a horrible man who should never have gotten to the position of president in the first place, but if acknowledging that further pursuit of him is stoking the fire and driving the counrty closer to issues would lead to a back off on both sides and a calming of the rhetoric then I think that would be worth it.

You only have to look at (clearly not the same scale, seriousness or impact) the likes of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa for an example of a country drawing a line in the sand, accepting the wrongs of the past but realising that the pursuit of prosecutions (in some cases) is not necessarily the best way to move on with life to try and bring the country together. (n.b. Admittedly there is some debate as to the success of this commission.)

The other agreement I that comes to mind is the Good Friday Peace Agreement where prisoner release was a big part of it. Drawing a line in the sand and trying to move forward.

The big question, as neil7908 mentions, would be whether he would fade into the background, which he is clearly not doing just now.

I think there was a time post January 6th where more moderate Republicans had come out in public against Trump and his support was probably at it's lowest ebb where he may have faded away if they could have maintained that momentum he would have been pretty irrelevant to the next election. Unfortunately I think the pursuit of Trump, however just it may be, has only led to a rise in support for him, even from moderates who think that he's being persecuted unfairly.

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I think he was always going to run again though. I don't for a second buy the notion that he would ever have to disappeared. And unfortunately there is enough public support behind him from the Republican base that the moderates in the party won't turn against him now. They have seen what happens to those who speak out.

Unfortunately there are no easy options here. If you look at Bolsonaro, he has left Brazil and allowed things to move on. Trump has done the opposite and left no room for any other choice. If he has indeed committed crimes, America has a judicial process that all citizens are part of and subject to.

If he has indeed been committing multiple crimes and gets away with it, it's near impossible to prosecute if he becomes President again.

And why would anyone thinking he'd just go on the straight and narrow at this point - he would certainly behave even worse knowing he's got away with it before and will stop at nothing to keep power.

Letting him back into office by ignoring his crimes sounds like a genuinely insane option. I don't want to go all Godwins Law here but we'd be talking about appeasing a fascist dictator. Look how well that worked in the 1930s.

one day maybe....yeah right



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrsBh44W...jpg&name=large

Developments overnight in the case of Trump and the classified documents he took when he left the WH.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Developments overnight in the case of Trump and the classified documents he took when he left the WH.

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Do you have any sources for this?

It’s quite hard to wade through all the Donald Trump stuff that’s out there right now.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Do you have any sources for this?

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Best I can find just now https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/...885373958?s=20

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt

Best I can find just now https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/...885373958?s=20

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Maybe this?

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...probe-00088215

Very interesting.

Thanks folks.

the GOP is rife with repugnant individuals nowayears....just like a certain political party in the UK



Greene's DC jail visit pulls GOP closer to Jan. 6 rioters (msn.com)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

the GOP is rife with repugnant individuals nowayears....just like a certain political party in the UK



Greene's DC jail visit pulls GOP closer to Jan. 6 rioters (msn.com)

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https://www.mediaite.com/politics/sh...le-in-ukraine/

I've got no idea about the accuracy or impartiality of the source, but on the subject of the GOP I have to say that this surprised me a bit.

Although maybe it shouldn't? Should we expect the ultra-nationalist element of the USA to be more about flexing it's muscles on the international stage or withdrawing into itself?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smartie

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/sh...le-in-ukraine/

I've got no idea about the accuracy or impartiality of the source, but on the subject of the GOP I have to say that this surprised me a bit.

Although maybe it shouldn't? Should we expect the ultra-nationalist element of the USA to be more about flexing it's muscles on the international stage or withdrawing into itself?

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and Trump is at it yet again Trump warns of 'death and destruction' if he is indicted on Stormy Daniels charges (msn.com)

"death and destruction" if he is indicted


i'll say it again, more innocent American citizens will die because of him

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...mpaign=wp_main

Lock him up....

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