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Sky Sports reporting the SPL are planning to relegate Rangers from the SPL, SFL say no agreement has been made. If they are relegated they have to accept previous punishments and pay all football related debts.
SFL sending something out to the member clubs
SFL Statement today:
The Scottish Football League, for the last number of days, has been involved in intensive discussions with The Scottish Premier League, The Scottish Football Association and other crucial stakeholders in our game, to try and address, in a positive way, the current critical issues affecting our game.The Scottish Football League will today send a briefing document to its member clubs – a logical and positive communication which will hopefully eliminate some of the understandable doubt, threats and insecurities that are apparent within the game at the moment. The consultation document will fully explain the short and long-term benefits of a number of scenarios which we will be considering at a full Club Meeting next week.The Scottish Football League is trying to address the question of whether we are in a position to accommodate a solution to the Rangers F.C. scenario. We are trying to achieve a solution which will be in the best interests of The Scottish Football League and the wider game.
Looks like it's far from the done deal that the BBC seem to think it is.
I think owing member clubs eg Yams, Cellic, DUFC small fortunes should be grounds for severe punishment - regardless of which club it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky
Severe punishment is not one season in SFL 1 IMHO. That's neither anti-Rangers or more anti-Rangers than pro-Hibs IMHO.
And potentially more limiting on Rangers than coming into the 3rd division, sanction free, whilst also making the required changes to Scottish football in structure and revensue and saving what is left of the TV deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
Rangers under this would need to pay back football debts by the looks of it, from funds they don't have, probably take a tranfer embargo, so not adding to a squad that they also don't have, and also remaining open to punsihment over dual contracts inculding further demotion and stripping of previous titles from the oldco.
I'd be willing to be persuaded on the detail.
They'd be miles from being an SPL ready team.
That's because events have moved on a lot since whoever dreamed up this plan a few weeks ago. This didn't just happen overnight, it's been mooted in the Record for a couple of weeks that they would go into SFL1.Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
The fans just need to keep the pressure on to make sure it won't happen.
Andy, with respect that is nonsense. How can it be "more limiting" to be given a free pass through two divisions?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
constantly watching pish football and the regular humiliations from hearts are bad enough. playing any part in ensuring the survival of the absolute **** that is glasgow rangers is one thing that i wont accept from hibs. If true my season tickets going back and thats it
SFL Statement
YOUR GAME–YOUR CLUB–YOUR FUTURE
The Scottish Football League, for the last number of days, has been involved in intensive discussions with The Scottish Premier League, The Scottish Football Association and other crucial stakeholders in our game, to try and address, in a positive way, the current critical issues affecting our game.
The Scottish Football League will today send a briefing document to its member clubs – a logical and positive communication which will hopefully eliminate some of the understandable doubt, threats and insecurities that are apparent within the game at the moment. The consultation document will fully explain the short and long-term benefits of a number of scenarios which we will be considering at a full Club Meeting next week.
The Scottish Football League is trying to address the question of whether we are in a position to accommodate a solution to the Rangers F.C. scenario. We are trying to achieve a solution which will be in the best interests of The Scottish Football League and the wider game.
David A. Longmuir
Chief Executive, SFL
28th June, 2012.
6 clubs have said they will vote no. That means newco would not be allowed into the SPL, assuming they stick to their word. If the newco are not in the SPL, they cannot be relegated from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
As others have suggested, this all comes across as desperate nonsense, unless the clubs that have said No change their minds, which would kill the game dead.
Putting Newco in Div 1 above every other club in Divisions 2,3 goes against the very point in football, if this is allowed then we will become the joke of Euroupe if we are not there already.
New teams start at bottom end of.
I think Petrie is gambling on the threats of the 'plebs' being empty hot air in the long run. He clearly values the Sky money and the financial oomph of Rangers more than the views and feelings of the heart of every club in Scotland. And before the Petrie apologists get in with the 'Petrie has a cunning plan ......' I choose for the moment to judge him guilty until he publicly refutes the BBC reports.
Well said. I used that as the basis of my email also. It has to be SFL3 or nothing IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Although it's far more encouraging than the initial suggestion of them going straight to SFL1, their football debts must be pretty miniscule compared to the HMRC debt? My main issue is that there is a definite blurring now between the extinct club and the NewCo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
On the face of it that looks like a decent and balanced statement, however it is the bit in bold that is all that is wrong with the whole situation. There should be no question of trying to accomodate Rangers. It should be 'oldco dead, newco start again'.Quote:
Originally Posted by SFL Statement
Andy, it looks like this deal comes with a sweetener for division one as it takes 1million away from us and goes to the division 1. So we are going to be down the fans that stay away because of this, rangers fans not coming to the ground and a loss of TV revenue. The statement didnt talk about future punishment, I think it just referred to punishments already given, ie the fine. The transfer ban wont be standing IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
I've said it could be more limiting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter
A newco beinfg admitted to SFL 3 or equivalent could probably reappear sanction free, not owing any football debts and being untouchable to punishments for previous wrongs.
The could probably pretty quickly emerge through 2 or 3 divisions in quick succession.
Allowing them to be seen as a continuing club, and having to accept various conditions, could see them remain where they are or slide the leagues themselves.
They'd have to find the cash to pay Hearts and Vienna, they would be unable to sign anyone over 18 and they are still open to punishments about dual contracts and taking the SFA to court for example which could also come with points sanctions or stripping of previous titles and trophies.
The focus has just been on re-entering the league at the bottom, but perhaps that actually isn't the worst outome they could get?
The other upside of this would be the TV deal remains reasonably intact and we get a sensible league structure and revenue split.
I'm not saying that it will be a worse outcome for them, it just needs thought through and not dismissed because the sanction point could be very important.
Sounds like much of what I suggested in my post at the start of the thread may have some substance.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sea-gull
IF (and I emphasise IF as it is just a report and nothing is confirmed) the BBC report is true then the actions of the clubs in the last few days have nothing really to do with sporting integrity and all to do with preserving face with minimal disruption to income. Sounds like a carefully planned operation to me. It stinks though.
Think what annoys me most is that some of the planned changes have been long over due and campaigned for years but the only reason they might come in is coz of the Huns situation. Take that away and we would still be no further forward with change in the game.
Like many, I am in favour of many of the reported proposed changes but Rangers New Co should be made to apply to the SFL and start in the third division. Teams will lose money for three years or so but I am not so convinced that three years without Rangers in the SPL will suddenly see clubs going to the wall.
If Rangers in the first division next season comes to fruition then I will find it hard to believe that the annoucements made by the SPL clubs this week were made without knowledge of this outcome.
"There is no price on sporting integrity". I think we may be about to find that actually there is. Can we really blame the clubs though for trying to find a solution which punishes Rangers but also minimises losses at a time when money is so tight and shows no sign of getting any better in years to come.
Exactly. The bit in bold you refer to is simply the indefatigable ( thanks George) mindset of the hierarchy of the game in Scotland.Quote:
Originally Posted by bernz
As long as the title sums it up. Fans must be at the centre of any decision which has to be SFL3. Other than that the game is finished.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gingertosser
How can we relegate something that does not exist?
I have serious doubts about the accuracy of the BBC report - I think it has been fed to them by the proven liar Green (copyright that Leggo bloke). Yet again it boils down to two interpretations of the "Rangers" position, anything in between can't logically be defended IMO.
- Sevco are a continuation of Rangers FC - that means they can keep their history but must answer for the charges of bringing the game into disrepute and concealed payments to players. They've already been found guilty of the first charge and there is strong evidence in support of the second. This can only result in suspension from the game for at least a year, which combined with a vote to approve the transfer of the SPL share would see them relegated to SFL1 at the end of the coming season. That would mean at least two seasons out of the SPL assuming they survived a year in the wilderness. My personal view is that this would be an acceptable approach, but no doubt others would disagree with me.
- Sevco are a new club with no links to Rangers FC - They would lose their history and escape the charges mentioned above, but would have to take a new club's place in the Scottish football hierarchy. Entry into the first division should be out of the question in those circumstances and even entry into the third division would be something of a fudge, although it seems to be an acceptable one to most - that is for the SFL to decide.
I honestly can't see any logical, legal or moral reasons for any approach between those two and the Scottish game would be shown up as corrupt if it chose such an approach IMO.
Rangers newco's acceptance into the Scottish FA would only be approved if they accept responsibility for the football debts and fines incurred by the previous club along with their waiving of rights to a legal challenge
So if a club, say one that Rangers knocked out of a Champions League Qualifier, were to sue Rangers(ia) £10m for loss of earnings due to Rangers dual contract cheating. What would happen then?
They could't afford it and would go into admin again!!!! :rolleyes:
Before we blast Petrie and Hibs too much here I'm wondering if he and the SFA ( Regan) within which he is a big player may actually have played a blinder. Lets face it Hibs, Herts and most of the rebel 10 have newco and to a much lesser extent Celtic by the short and curlies. They can scrap the 11-1 nonsense anytime they want and can drive through expanded leagues if they so desire. Newco and their old partners who have dined out on the stupidy small SPL for 20 years or so. The Express are reporting 2 options for league reconstruction ( not sure if in the SFL document above) which would certainly satisfy me and bring back real competition to our game. One is 3 off 14 team leagues, from the new season with newco in 2cd tier (tear!!). Not bad with probable 6/8 or 8/6 or 7/7 split. Bairns Pars, Dees all in. But much much better in my view is the Belgian Pro league model of 16 teams. This is a trifle complicated but once you get your head round it it appears brilliant. The normal season is 30 games. Then they split into a top 6 A group and play each other twice each again as a play off for the title, and Euro places. The best thing for me is that points do not carry forward and the 10 games decide it. Can you imagine the crowds, tv interest in these play offs? What about the rest of the league. It gets better, teams ranked 7 -14 split into 2 mini leagues, play each other twice. Group winners play home and away to be get a shot at a Europa league play off. Again great attracion for crowds and tv. The last section is the relegation play off between teams 15 and 16, they play each other 5 times, team that wins the most games is saved . Wow i say bring it on
Why not a treble 14 team set up this season - no litigation from anyone denied promotion and then go for the Belgian model 2013/14.
The question is has our Rod and his allies in the SFA , probably including Herts, Dons, United, Regan possibly pulled off the coup we all thought would never come. I could accept the newco into tier 2 along with other sanctions if one of these models is offered up and fairer distribution of monies. Stripping of titles, etc.
Lets wait and see and not blast RP just yet. This could be a key turning point. I hope so cause if we contiue with 11-1, spl 12 or spl 10 i will be giving up on it and getting the golf clubs out from the hut.
With you 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
Is it small wonder everyone is delighted to trod on the "Glasgow Giant's" after listening to them for over 40 years and watching them take all the other clubs players,bleat about giving them extra time for european games so they can earn more money to take even more of our players. Not to mention the arrogance of their supporters, whos bigoted singing has stained the Scottish game for years acctually thinking they are one of the biggest and prestigious clubs in the world :faf: :na na:. I could mention at least two
clubs from every decent sized country in the world who have bigger supports and decent fans.The top six teams in Germany for starters have as big as or bigger crowds. They are a small fish in an ever decreasingly small pond. Lets prove we can survive and prosper without the "big club" and with a bit of luck we can get rid of the other half in Glasgow aswell in the new shake up in Scottish Football. :wink:
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
I think this is probably right. The Huns will most likely lap up defiantly winning their way through the divisions. If they have to enter at D1 with what's left of their team just now, they may well struggle and the Huns will most definitely not lap up a struggling D1 side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
However, it recognises the new club as linked to the old one. Just wrong, imo.
Among the more obnoxious things that have come out of the BBC recently (Young, Traynor, Doddsy "Billy" Dodds) is the repeated phrase "Glasgow giants". I so want it to be true that Young's contract with the BBC is not being renewed, and hope fervently that Traynor and Dodds go the same way, but more than anything else I want to hear the disappearance of the phrase Glasgow giants when Nouveau Rongers are playing in front of 9,000 peepul in an echoey Ibrox. Slumbering minnows/dwarves/trolls/hobbits I won't mind quite so much.
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Originally Posted by Caversham Green
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Originally Posted by Carlsberg
Me too, although I would add that if they take option 1, then debt due to other member clubs in the shape of outstanding transfer fees, have to be accepted by newco and paid in full at some point.
Isn't point 1 largely what may be getting looked at here - which to me makes them more goosed then getting back in Div3 as a newco with no penalties.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlex