The Trans Rights Debate

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22-12-2022, 01:30 PM
Stairway 2 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldo7

"Said previously"

Listened to the debate then came to a conclusion.

At no time though have I ever spoke against either women's or trans rights.

Patriarchy though.

So it now affects you after listening to the debate. It's only women's rights can be eroded here. In a year when abortion is banned in America and the situation in Iran and Afghanistan, I feel women's rights are stuck in reverse
22-12-2022, 01:32 PM
Stairway 2 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

The ECHR, presumably.

Do you think we should follow all human rights rules even if we believe they are bad and erode human rights. I don't believe this does go against echr though and either does joanna cherry who has a good grasp
22-12-2022, 01:35 PM
Stairway 2 7

People who have been campaigning against homaphobia being called homophobic is another weird one. The abuse including rape threats towards joanna cherry is brutal

https://mobile.twitter.com/ITVBorder...25053332115456

Joanna Cherry says she's been 'demonised' because of her opposition to the Gender Recognition Reform Bill, and marginalised within the SNP.

The SNP MP says she doesn't 'need lectures on homophobia or bigotry' from anyone in Holyrood
22-12-2022, 01:36 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Do you think we should follow all human rights rules even if we believe they are bad and erode human rights. I don't believe this does go against echr though and either does joanna cherry who has a good grasp

I'm not a lawyer, much less an expert in the ECHR, so I can't say.

I was merely suggesting why that particular amendment was defeated.
22-12-2022, 01:39 PM
JeMeSouviens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Do you think we should follow all human rights rules even if we believe they are bad and erode human rights. I don't believe this does go against echr though and either does joanna cherry who has a good grasp

If our parliament is legally obliged to follow them it has no choice. Afaik, the UK's equality act applies in Scotland and is reserved to Westminster.
22-12-2022, 01:50 PM
He's here!

'Approaching this using the dark arts of the whips was wrong,' says Michelle Thomson:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-s...ost_type=share

It would have been interesting to see how this went had all MSPs been allowed a free vote. Joanna Cherry seems convinced there are a number of SNP MSPs who feel too scared to go with their conscience.
22-12-2022, 01:51 PM
archie

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

If our parliament is legally obliged to follow them it has no choice. Afaik, the UK's equality act applies in Scotland and is reserved to Westminster.

I think there will be a complicated interaction between the two pieces of legislation, which may lead to UKG or legal intervention.
22-12-2022, 01:53 PM
ronaldo7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

So it now affects you after listening to the debate. It's only women's rights can be eroded here. In a year when abortion is banned in America and the situation in Iran and Afghanistan, I feel women's rights are stuck in reverse

It affects everyone living in Scotland after today. I'm sure if you want to discuss women's rights you could start another thread. This one is about trans rights.

Parliament now suspended due to a woman shouting from the gallery.
22-12-2022, 01:53 PM
CropleyWasGod

Away from the main debate.....

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...u-dies-aged-24
22-12-2022, 01:53 PM
Moulin Yarns

It's a bit strange that there is cross party support, and even cooperation, for the bill, despite the large amount of amendments tabled, yet the debate on here seems to be divided along party lines?
22-12-2022, 01:58 PM
JeMeSouviens

Quote:

Originally Posted by archie

I think there will be a complicated interaction between the two pieces of legislation, which may lead to UKG or legal intervention.

:agree:

Sounds like it.
22-12-2022, 01:58 PM
Stairway 2 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldo7

It affects everyone living in Scotland after today. I'm sure if you want to discuss women's rights you could start another thread. This one is about trans rights.

Parliament now suspended due to a woman shouting from the gallery.

You really don't think this is about women's rights, that's unbelievable
22-12-2022, 01:59 PM
Stairway 2 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by He's here!

'Approaching this using the dark arts of the whips was wrong,' says Michelle Thomson:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-s...ost_type=share

It would have been interesting to see how this went had all MSPs been allowed a free vote. Joanna Cherry seems convinced there are a number of SNP MSPs who feel too scared to go with their conscience.

Some pull that. Vote with your opinion and lose your career
22-12-2022, 02:00 PM
ronaldo7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

It's a bit strange that there is cross party support, and even cooperation, for the bill, despite the large amount of amendments tabled, yet the debate on here seems to be divided along party lines?

I was heartened to see Michelle Thompson on the SNP list of speakers even although she was against the motion.

She didn't seemed to be scared to speak up.
22-12-2022, 02:01 PM
ronaldo7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

You really don't think this is about women's rights, that's unbelievable

You mentioned women's rights being eroded, then spoke about Afghanistan and Iran.

I know what the debates about thanks. 👍
22-12-2022, 02:02 PM
Ozyhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

It's a bit strange that there is cross party support, and even cooperation, for the bill, despite the large amount of amendments tabled, yet the debate on here seems to be divided along party lines?

And compromises are being found and amendments accepted. Sounds like a great advert for our parliament.

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22-12-2022, 02:03 PM
Stairway 2 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldo7

You mentioned women's rights being eroded, then spoke about Afghanistan and Iran.

I know what the debates about thanks. 👍

Eh
22-12-2022, 02:05 PM
Ozyhibby

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22-12-2022, 02:08 PM
500miles

If we could agree to draw a line between biological sex and gender, and legislation recognised that difference, there would be a hell of a lot less wailing and gnashing of teeth.

We won't though, because its neither in the interests of gender ideologues or homophobes.
22-12-2022, 02:22 PM
WhileTheChief..

Are there any women or trans-women taking part in this discussion on here, or is it all just guys having our say?
22-12-2022, 02:23 PM
He's here!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldo7

It affects everyone living in Scotland after today. I'm sure if you want to discuss women's rights you could start another thread. This one is about trans rights.

Parliament now suspended due to a woman shouting from the gallery.

The two are inseparable in this instance though, with the enhancement of one coming at the cost of eroding the other.
22-12-2022, 02:29 PM
He's here!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldo7

What was questionable in the consultation process.

We've been at this for 6 long years. How much longer should we take to pass legislation?

Six years and even today not a single Scottish government minister has been able to define how, with no checks of any kind now required, what living in the opposite sex means in practice - an issue that lies at the very heart of the legislation. Absurd.
22-12-2022, 02:30 PM
archie

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

Are there any women or trans-women taking part in this discussion on here, or is it all just guys having our say?

No idea.
22-12-2022, 02:32 PM
He's here!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 500miles

If we could agree to draw a line between biological sex and gender, and legislation recognised that difference, there would be a hell of a lot less wailing and gnashing of teeth.

We won't though, because its neither in the interests of gender ideologues or homophobes.

That line was drawn. This legislation has erased it. In Scotland there is no longer a clear answer to the question what is a woman. A utterly daft state of affairs.
22-12-2022, 02:38 PM
Ozyhibby

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...563ca3d1aa.jpg

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22-12-2022, 02:40 PM
archie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...563ca3d1aa.jpg

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Maybe the SG plan all along?
22-12-2022, 02:43 PM
Ozyhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by archie

Maybe the SG plan all along?

Nah, I think they just felt it was the right thing to do.
Of course, if Jack is stupid enough to go for this then nobody on the yes side will be disappointed.

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22-12-2022, 02:44 PM
Stairway 2 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by archie

Maybe the SG plan all along?

With a majority of women opposing parts of the bill a dangerous game to play if so
22-12-2022, 02:46 PM
archie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Nah, I think they just felt it was the right thing to do.
Of course, if Jack is stupid enough to go for this then nobody on the yes side will be disappointed.

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Depends what you mean by stupid. I'm sure there is a political dimension, but it is not only legitimate but essential to ensure that different pieces of legislation do not contradict each other.
22-12-2022, 02:47 PM
Mcbizz1998

The Trans Rights Debate

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

Are there any women or trans-women taking part in this discussion on here, or is it all just guys having our say?

Probably pretty unlikely given they make up a minutia of the population. But who knows?

Edit: trans women, I mean.

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