Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

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16-05-2013, 04:17 PM
EdinMike

I saw on Keekaboo that one Jambo mentions being relegated this season would be good as if they wait a season and then go down Rangers will be there.

Mate, you'll be lucky to have a club next season ! And with that. I'm off for a beer on a nice sunny day :greengrin
16-05-2013, 04:18 PM
G15 Hibs

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe breezy

This rule seems to state that Hearts are goosed already simply through this event

https://twitter.com/CelticResearch/s...579201/photo/1

I think I just pished myself.
16-05-2013, 04:20 PM
Caversham Green

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFCDaveA

I think they may be wrong, the points deduction probably won't have to happen before Sunday, it's the even that triggers it that needs to be before Sunday surely?

Agreed. The event has happened and it's now up to the SPL to decide whether it warrants a points deduction. I would argue that UBIG is the owner and operator of HoMFC so the deduction is mandatory, but those who take the Sevco defence would argue that UBIG is a group company so it's at the SPL's discretion. In the latter case, UBIG have been instrumantal in the operation and financing of HoMFC for the past 7 years so it seems logical that the penalty should apply.
16-05-2013, 04:20 PM
HibeeMG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euchrid

I think I just pished myself.

Is your second name Foulkes?
16-05-2013, 04:20 PM
Fife-Hibee

So ' is it time to pull the cork or not ? I aint working a minute longer if true !!!
16-05-2013, 04:22 PM
Purehibee_MYB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

So ' is it time to pull the cork or not ? I aint working a minute longer if true !!!

Save it for when the headline reads 'Hearts Enter Administration' will feel a lot sweeter at that point! :greengrin
16-05-2013, 04:23 PM
matty_f

I just want to point out statements(at the risk of being a party pooper) the Yams dropped -almost unnoticed- a line into one of their statements over the last few days which said their parent company is Hearts Plc (or something similar).

If anyone has anything that they have released which categorically states otherwise, I suggest making it public asap.
16-05-2013, 04:23 PM
Aldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caversham Green

Agreed. The event has happened and it's now up to the SPL to decide whether it warrants a points deduction. I would argue that UBIG is the owner and operator of HoMFC so the deduction is mandatory, but those who take the Sevco defence would argue that UBIG is a group company so it's at the SPL's discretion. In the latter case, UBIG have been instrumantal in the operation and financing of HoMFC for the past 7 years so it seems logical that the penalty should apply.

If that's the case Cav then it's a waiting game to see if the SPL has the bottle to deal with it correctly. If not they make a rod for their own back and if anyone else has financial worries the same fate will happen to them as the yams??

Nowt
16-05-2013, 04:23 PM
Golden Bear

I wonder if this latest news renders them as being unsuitable candidates for a place in the East of Scotland League therefore their pending application should be thrown out?

:tee hee:
16-05-2013, 04:24 PM
grunt

Question for Cav/CWG - if UBIG appoint an administrator or liquidator, what happens to the loan owed by HMFC to UBIG? Does it become repayable immediately?
16-05-2013, 04:25 PM
Fife-Hibee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purehibee_MYB

Save it for when the headline reads 'Hearts Enter Administration' will feel a lot sweeter at that point! :greengrin

I cant wait tho' the tensions killing me :-)))
16-05-2013, 04:25 PM
Waxy

If it does become the end for the yams,good idea to turn this thread into a book.All takings go to Hibs.
16-05-2013, 04:26 PM
G15 Hibs

Quote:

Originally Posted by HibeeMG

Is your second name Foulkes?

You can call me Dode.
16-05-2013, 04:29 PM
hibs0666

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunt

Question for Cav/CWG - if UBIG appoint an administrator or liquidator, what happens to the loan owed by HMFC to UBIG? Does it become repayable immediately?

The UBIG loan is repayable in full in July. There is no way that Hearts can pay or re-negotiate that debt and therefore continues to trade whilst knowing full well that it cannot meet its debts. By rights the club should be declaring itself insolvent right now.
16-05-2013, 04:29 PM
HibeeMG

Quote:

Originally Posted by matty_f

I just want to point out statements(at the risk of being a party pooper) the Yams dropped -almost unnoticed- a line into one of their statements over the last few days which said their parent company is Hearts Plc (or something similar).

If anyone has anything that they have released which categorically states otherwise, I suggest making it public asap.

Surely the fact that UBIG own 79% of Hearts shares makes them, by default, the parent company.
16-05-2013, 04:30 PM
gogsy23

Carlsberg dont do thursdays but if they did............bye now
16-05-2013, 04:30 PM
matty_f

Quote:

Originally Posted by HibeeMG

Surely the fact that UBIG own 79% of Hearts shares makes them, by default, the parent company.

I bloody well hope so!
16-05-2013, 04:31 PM
Caversham Green

Quote:

Originally Posted by matty_f

I just want to point out statements(at the risk of being a party pooper) the Yams dropped -almost unnoticed- a line into one of their statements over the last few days which said their parent company is Hearts Plc (or something similar).

If anyone has anything that they have released which categorically states otherwise, I suggest making it public asap.

Heart of Midlothian plc is the club and the company that recently released accounts. Those accounts stated categorically that UBIG is the parent company. Again, it's down to the interpretation of owner and operator.
16-05-2013, 04:31 PM
grunt

Quote:

Originally Posted by matty_f

I just want to point out statements(at the risk of being a party pooper) the Yams dropped -almost unnoticed- a line into one of their statements over the last few days which said their parent company is Hearts Plc (or something similar).

If anyone has anything that they have released which categorically states otherwise, I suggest making it public asap.

UBIG are described as their parent company in their financial statements, published a week ago ...
16-05-2013, 04:32 PM
Hermit Crab

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFCDaveA

I think they may be wrong, the points deduction probably won't have to happen before Sunday, it's the even that triggers it that needs to be before Sunday surely?

Being honest mate I don't know.
16-05-2013, 04:32 PM
Mikey

Dundee need to get the finger oot and get this 18 point deduction applied tomorrow.

Meanwhile, over the road, they're arguing with each other over how long they'll be down in Division 1 for :hilarious
16-05-2013, 04:34 PM
JeMeSouviens

Quote:

Originally Posted by matty_f

I just want to point out statements(at the risk of being a party pooper) the Yams dropped -almost unnoticed- a line into one of their statements over the last few days which said their parent company is Hearts Plc (or something similar).

If anyone has anything that they have released which categorically states otherwise, I suggest making it public asap.

There are 2 definitions that matter in the SPL rules:

- "Owner and operator of a club". This is a new phrase dreamed up during the NewHun saga to try and pretend that a separate club entity existed that could live on when the company died. So, on planet reality this actually means the club itself, ie. Heart of Midlothian plc. If they have an insolvency event then the deduction is automatic.

- "Group undertaking". I posted the definition of this above and UBIG definitely falls into this category. In this case the deduction isn't automatic but would be decided by the SPL board with regard to:

(i) the need to protect the integrity and continuity of the League;
(ii) the reputation of the League; and
(iii) the relationship between such owner and operator and the Group Undertaking concerned

Can't see how Dundee's lawyers could possibly lose?
16-05-2013, 04:35 PM
Sergey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey

Dundee need to get the finger oot and get this 18 point deduction applied tomorrow.

:agree: I'll trouser over a grand if this happens.

On a more serious note, will the news of UBIG's demise put the kibosh on the Goodwillie and Boyd deals :confused:
16-05-2013, 04:35 PM
grunt

Quote:

Originally Posted by hibs0666

The UBIG loan is repayable in full in July. .

Not according to Hearts' accounts released last week. There have been changes made recently to the loan arrangements.
16-05-2013, 04:36 PM
Mon Dieu4

Quote:

Originally Posted by matty_f

I just want to point out statements(at the risk of being a party pooper) the Yams dropped -almost unnoticed- a line into one of their statements over the last few days which said their parent company is Hearts Plc (or something similar).

If anyone has anything that they have released which categorically states otherwise, I suggest making it public asap.

Few links here going from 2008 to pretty much present day straight from their own website

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/2...241384_1339523

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/2...241384_2959577

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/2...241384_2358272

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/staticFile...~178521,00.pdf
16-05-2013, 04:38 PM
Mikey

And I'm still hearing that players haven't been paid today. As they have to report any non payments to the SPL they should be doing that today or tomorrow too.
16-05-2013, 04:40 PM
Caversham Green

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunt

Question for Cav/CWG - if UBIG appoint an administrator or liquidator, what happens to the loan owed by HMFC to UBIG? Does it become repayable immediately?

It depends on the terms of the loan - generally, unless there's a clause about it being payable on demand the original terms of the loan will stand, but the administrator might offer a discount for early payment - I believe Duff and Phelps did that to Everton for the Jelavic money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hibs0666

The UBIG loan is repayable in full in July. There is no way that Hearts can pay or re-negotiate that debt and therefore continues to trade whilst knowing full well that it cannot meet its debts. By rights the club should be declaring itself insolvent right now.

According to the accounts the loan was renegotiated so that it now falls due in March 2015. It is included in amounts falling due within one year though, suggesting that there may be such a clause. I think both UBIG and Ukio are likely to keep the loans running as they are for the time being though - administration/liquidation is likely to take some time to complete.

The administrator might see fit to close down HoMFC completely though as it's a loss-making subsidiary of UBIG.
16-05-2013, 04:42 PM
Mikey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caversham Green

The administrator might see fit to close down HoMFC completely though as it's a loss-making subsidiary of UBIG.

Daffy......................
16-05-2013, 04:43 PM
hibs0666

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunt

Not according to Hearts' accounts released last week. There have been changes made recently to the loan arrangements.

Bugger. :wink:
16-05-2013, 04:44 PM
HUTCHYHIBBY

Might pop into Brauhaus for a pint when they go pop, hopefully Skacel will be pouring the pints.

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