Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

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Originally Posted by Andy74

I'm agreeing! Hope the SPL do to. It's coming together nicely.

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I dunno, I was warming to the prospect of seeing them suffer at the bottom of the SPL all next season, *then* get liquidated. Typical of they ***** to hide in the lower leagues when they're pish! :rolleyes:

I think we are near the insolvency event but this news on Bloomberg alone isn't an official statement from the administrators. So I wouldn't assume its a points deduction yet.

Meanwhile Yams are in discussions with Webster on extending his existing £6k a week contract #allisbarry

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

That's what it looks like to me, UBIG is insolvent so hearts must be deducted 18 points. Even better than that we relegated them

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Possibly not as exciting as it may first seem - need to try and understand what underpins the Department's decision but the press release alone will not constitute an "Insolvency Event" for the purposes of the SPL Rules. The definition of "Insolvency Event" requires active steps to have some kind of declaration of insolvency made (generally through a court process) and unless the Department make that happen as opposed to just issuing releases about it then I don't think it takes them into points-deduction territory.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

I dunno, I was warming to the prospect of seeing them suffer at the bottom of the SPL all next season, *then* get liquidated. Typical of they ***** to hide in the lower leagues when they're pish! :rolleyes:

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That would be a good outcome for a bankrupt club with no stadium and no players.

This is it Ladies and Gentleman, this is what we've all been waiting for. It's happening right now and my advice is to savour every last minute of it.

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Originally Posted by Jamesie

Possibly not as exciting as it may first seem - need to try and understand what underpins the Department's decision but the press release alone will not constitute an "Insolvency Event" for the purposes of the SPL Rules. The definition of "Insolvency Event" requires active steps to have some kind of declaration of insolvency made (generally through a court process) and unless the Department make that happen as opposed to just issuing releases about it then I don't think it takes them into points-deduction territory.

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Although they have been placed on an official list of companies unable to meet obligations. I'm not sure we have an equivalent but given that the SPL don't mention administration or liquidation it would be hard to argue that this was not an insolvency event.

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Originally Posted by underscore

Clerry Jambo, on 16 May 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

I think you maybe right mate, I don't have a nice gut feeling at the moment


Theres nothing there that we didnt already know really.

Edited by audrey65, Today, 14:44.



#allisSTILLbarry

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What audrey65 fails to grasp is that UBIG themselves have declared themselves to be unable to meet their business obligations. They are admitting they`re insolvent. They`ve just announced it so we didn`t know that before.

Never mind audrey65, you`ll always have 1-5, eh.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

I don't think so if UBIG suffer an insolvency event then hearts get deducted 18 points

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Is the deduction not at the discretion of the SPL/SFA/Someone else?

I think Dundee could argue, particularly if UBIG enter admin in the next few weeks/months, that today is the date that any penalty should be applied.


Has anybody told Barry?

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Originally Posted by hibby rae

They can't be expecting many to turn up if it's at Brauhaus, my toilet's bigger than that place.

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There'll be mair s***e and pish being spouted in Brauhaus though!

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

This is it Ladies and Gentleman, this is what we've all been waiting for. It's happening right now and my advice is to savour every last minute of it.

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really? have you seen the length of this thread?

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Originally Posted by Andy74

Although they have been placed on an official list of companies unable to meet obligations. I'm not sure we have an equivalent but given that the SPL don't mention administration or liquidation it would be hard to argue that this was not an insolvency event.

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The SPL rules are here: http://www.scotprem.com/content/medi...BER%202012.pdf

Rule A6.12 extends the application of the provisions on "Insolvency Event" to any "owner or operator" of a Club. The defition of "Insolvency Event" is copied below. Sadly the press release on its own does not satisfy any of these categories:

Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:-
(a) it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement pursuant to Part 1 of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006 Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a whole;
(b) the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph 29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph 12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having the meaning attributed to them respectively by paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as a step in any proceedings which include an application for the making of an Administration Order;
(c) an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d) shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section 84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e) a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section 95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
(g) ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board;
(h) being subject to an insolvency regime in any jurisdiction outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i) have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing.

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

This is it Ladies and Gentleman, this is what we've all been waiting for. It's happening right now and my advice is to savour every last minute of it.

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I've been too excited before and jumped the gun, I am not falling into a false sense of optimism now. When it happens. I'll be happy.

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Originally Posted by Jamesie

The SPL rules are here: http://www.scotprem.com/content/medi...BER%202012.pdf

Rule A6.12 extends the application of the provisions on "Insolvency Event" to any "owner or operator" of a Club. The defition of "Insolvency Event" is copied below. Sadly the press release on its own does not satisfy any of these categories:

Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:-
(a) it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement pursuant to Part 1 of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006 Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a whole;
(b) the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph 29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph 12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having the meaning attributed to them respectively by paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as a step in any proceedings which include an application for the making of an Administration Order;
(c) an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d) shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section 84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e) a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section 95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
(g) ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board;
(h) being subject to an insolvency regime in any jurisdiction outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i) have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing.

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They are goosed.

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Originally Posted by Jamesie

The SPL rules are here: http://www.scotprem.com/content/medi...BER%202012.pdf

Rule A6.12 extends the application of the provisions on "Insolvency Event" to any "owner or operator" of a Club. The defition of "Insolvency Event" is copied below. Sadly the press release on its own does not satisfy any of these categories:

Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:-
(a) it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement pursuant to Part 1 of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006 Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a whole;
(b) the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph 29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph 12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having the meaning attributed to them respectively by paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as a step in any proceedings which include an application for the making of an Administration Order;
(c) an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d) shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section 84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e) a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section 95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
(g) ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board;
(h) being subject to an insolvency regime in any jurisdiction outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i) have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing.

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What about (G) ?

STV are on the case it seems!
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/h...-in-lithuania/ :greengrin

Where's Daffy when you need him??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jamesie

The SPL rules are here: http://www.scotprem.com/content/medi...BER%202012.pdf

Rule A6.12 extends the application of the provisions on "Insolvency Event" to any "owner or operator" of a Club. The defition of "Insolvency Event" is copied below. Sadly the press release on its own does not satisfy any of these categories:

Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:-
(a) it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement pursuant to Part 1 of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006 Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a whole;
(b) the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph 29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph 12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having the meaning attributed to them respectively by paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as a step in any proceedings which include an application for the making of an Administration Order;
(c) an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d) shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section 84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e) a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section 95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
(g) ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board;
(h) being subject to an insolvency regime in any jurisdiction outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i) have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing.

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So are they getting a points deduction or not???:confused::confused::confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jamesie

The SPL rules are here: http://www.scotprem.com/content/medi...BER%202012.pdf

Rule A6.12 extends the application of the provisions on "Insolvency Event" to any "owner or operator" of a Club. The defition of "Insolvency Event" is copied below. Sadly the press release on its own does not satisfy any of these categories:

Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:-
(a) it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement pursuant to Part 1 of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006 Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a whole;
(b) the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph 29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph 12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having the meaning attributed to them respectively by paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as a step in any proceedings which include an application for the making of an Administration Order;
(c) an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d) shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section 84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e) a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section 95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
(g) ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board;
(h) being subject to an insolvency regime in any jurisdiction outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i) have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing.

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The Lithuania government have listed them on this register at the companies own request, they have said they are unable or unwilling to pay their debts. This could fall under point (I).

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Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

There'll be mair ***** and pish being spouted in Brauhaus though!

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True, Locke will think it's Christmas.

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

This is it Ladies and Gentleman, this is what we've all been waiting for. It's happening right now and my advice is to savour every last minute of it.

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What do we think this means for the auditors who only recently signed off the accounts declaring that hahahahearts were good for at least the next twelve months?

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Originally Posted by CentreLine

What do we think this means for the auditors who only recently signed off the accounts declaring that hahahahearts were good for at least the next twelve months?

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The "next 12 months" in question are almost up.

Definition from the SPL rules:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SPL rules

Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:
-
(a)
it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement
pursuant to Part 1
of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of
Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006
Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a
whole;
(b)
the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an
Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an
Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph
29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application
to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph
12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an
Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is
made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having
the meaning attributed to them respectively by
paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency
Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as
a step in any proceedings
which include an application
for the making of an Administration Order;
(c)
an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency
Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets
which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the
Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a
Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d)
shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section
84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e)
a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section
95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f)
a winding up order is made by the Court under section
122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is
appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
85
(g)
ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or
substantially to carry on business save for the purpose
of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in
accordance with a scheme or proposals which have
previously been submitted to and approved in writing by
the Board;
(h)
being subject to an insolvency
regime in any jurisdiction
outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency
regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i)
have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in
any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar
effect to any of the foregoing.
Insolvency Process means a process or procedure comprising
two or more Insolvency Events which occur either concurrently
or consecutively

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Originally Posted by WindyMiller

What about (G) ?

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Or H?

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Originally Posted by Jamesie

The SPL rules are here: http://www.scotprem.com/content/medi...BER%202012.pdf

Rule A6.12 extends the application of the provisions on "Insolvency Event" to any "owner or operator" of a Club. The defition of "Insolvency Event" is copied below. Sadly the press release on its own does not satisfy any of these categories:

Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:-
(a) it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement pursuant to Part 1 of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006 Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a whole;
(b) the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph 29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph 12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having the meaning attributed to them respectively by paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as a step in any proceedings which include an application for the making of an Administration Order;
(c) an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d) shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section 84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e) a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section 95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
(g) ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board;
(h) being subject to an insolvency regime in any jurisdiction outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i) have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing.

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The thing is the press release says they have placed themselves on the insolvency list.

If this is true, I'm sure it can be quickly investigated.

That would surely fall under subsection (h) above.

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Originally Posted by WindyMiller

What about (G) ?

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The press release to me suggests UBIG has stated it is "unable or unwilling to meet their obligations". It hasn't (yet) gone as far as (g) yet IMHO. Not the first business that has admitted it can't meet its obligations but then has sought further time to sort its affairs out. Time will tell!

Has Barry got anything to say on the current situation? :ostrich:

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Originally Posted by kdhibees1

STV are on the case it seems!
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/h...-in-lithuania/ :greengrin

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Yet the BBC run a story about Webster wanting another year of money from them...

#allisbbc #allisbarry

I cant see the problem here, surely if UBIG are themselves saying they cant meet their obligations, then thats an admission of insolvency? :confused:

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Originally Posted by HibeeMG

The thing is the press release says they have placed themselves on the insolvency list.

If this is true, I'm sure it can be quickly investigated.

That would surely fall under subsection (h) above.

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"Being subject to an insolvency regime" to me means that insolvency proceedings need to have been instigated against UBIG. Again, much will turn on what underpins that release. I'm not trying to be the party pooper here believe me, I just want to stop people jumping the gun and finding themselves disappointed!

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Originally Posted by Fred Perry

Where's Daffy when you need him??

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Times like these are the reason daffy was created.