Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

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22-06-2012, 12:23 PM
IWasThere2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Story So Far...

My opinion on the unlikelihood of it being Dundee and my dislike for them aren't linked.

The point is that the SPL have in the past set a precedent by saving clubs from relegation rather than rewarding second place in the First Division.

I find it quite laughable that you've been very cheerily vocal on the demise of Rangers, yet give your support/backing (call it what you will) to a club who have shafted many small businesses and employees across the Tayside region :confused:

What DFC did in the past was wrong but it is in the past ala Livi, Airdire, Livi etc .. Looking forward, Dundee up is the correct decision.
22-06-2012, 12:23 PM
Saorsa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy74

Some hun:

brainless twits all yous fans of football want to see the Scottish game die yous are going the right way about it cowards we have kept your teams going for years now the knifes are out to stab us in the back!!!

So that's why they stole all that money, it wisnae for themselves, it was tae keep every else going. Wasn't that kind of them :greengrin

Now look at all the trouble they are in for helping us all out, shame :boo hoo:

:hilarious
22-06-2012, 12:26 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenginger

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/107524-r...dministrators/

Duff and Phelps might be getting their collars felt by other Boys in Blue.

And not before time.

No suggestion of criminal behaviour in there. Lord Hodge wants to clear up the question of conflict of interest.
22-06-2012, 12:32 PM
greenginger

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

No suggestion of criminal behaviour in there. Lord Hodge wants to clear up the question of conflict of interest.

Who knows what is going to come crawling out when more stones are overturned. This saga will keep the legal profession handsomely remunerated for years.
22-06-2012, 12:44 PM
Paisley Hibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Story So Far...

Here is the rule which address the issue of promotion and relegation - the bit I've linked above is a Miscellaneous addition to address the issue of membership being ceased for any reason (including liquidation). Combine the 2, and none of Sevco, Dundee or Dunfermline have any right to be in the SPL.

"The association football clubs eligible to participate in the League in any Season shall, subject to the Articles of Association and Rules, be those Clubs which participated in the League in the immediately preceding Season, except that, subject to Rules A2.2, A2.3 and A2.4, the Club finishing in last place in the League in the immediately preceding Season shall not be eligible to participate in the League and shall be relegated to the SFL and the Candidate Club shall be promoted from the SFL and admitted entry to the League."

So correctly, Dunfermline were relegated from the SPL and the Candidate Club (Ross County) have been promoted in their stead.

Dundee are no more eligible than Dunfermline in claiming right to the SPL as they neither played in the league in the preceeding season nor are they the Candidate Club.

There really is no precedent in the SPL rules for this situation to be honest!

Don´t see why SPL can´t simply expunge enough points retrospectively (under rule H5) to make Oldhun the club finishing last. Ross County then get their share and Dunfermline stay up as they were not in last place. There´s then no decision for the SPL to make on a Newco. It all becomes the SFL´s problem :-)
22-06-2012, 12:56 PM
joe breezy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paisley Hibby

Don´t see why SPL can´t simply expunge enough points retrospectively (under rule H5) to make Oldhun the club finishing last. Ross County then get their share and Dunfermline stay up as they were not in last place. There´s then no decision for the SPL to make on a Newco. It all becomes the SFL´s problem :-)

The club formerly knows as Rangers are dead / soon to be liquidised. That's all that matters.

There is a new club called Sevco, who aren't allowed to use the name Rangers, that own Ibrox apparently (although even that may be up for debate). Sevco are a new football club that may want to use a name that will attract former Rangers fans / Huns.
So Govan Dodgers / Her Majesties Royals / whatever they want to call themselves are a new club that need to apply to the SFL by the usual procedures...

That's how I see it anyway
22-06-2012, 01:04 PM
Paisley Hibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe breezy

The club formerly knows as Rangers are dead / soon to be liquidised. That's all that matters.

There is a new club called Sevco, who aren't allowed to use the name Rangers, that own Ibrox apparently (although even that may be up for debate). Sevco are a new football club that may want to use a name that will attract former Rangers fans / Huns.
So Govan Dodgers / Her Majesties Royals / whatever they want to call themselves are a new club that need to apply to the SFL by the usual procedures...

That's how I see it anyway

I agree - what I was suggesting was that SPL expunge the Old Huns points from last season so that they are recorded as having come last. That lets Dunfermline stay up, Ross County get promoted and they can tell Sevco that their application to take over the Old Huns place in the SPL is invalid.
22-06-2012, 01:10 PM
kenny-55

not a bad idea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paisley Hibby

I agree - what I was suggesting was that SPL expunge the Old Huns points from last season so that they are recorded as having come last. That lets Dunfermline stay up, Ross County get promoted and they can tell Sevco that their application to take over the Old Huns place in the SPL is invalid.

I was thinking that this not a bad idea saves any voting nonsense as we know how that will turn out a (no) dunfy get saved ross county come up
currant buns in the wilderness and no option to play next season , then expelled later on when all the *rap comes out
happy days
22-06-2012, 01:13 PM
Captain Trips

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe breezy

The club formerly knows as Rangers are dead / soon to be liquidised. That's all that matters.

There is a new club called Sevco, who aren't allowed to use the name Rangers, that own Ibrox apparently (although even that may be up for debate). Sevco are a new football club that may want to use a name that will attract former Rangers fans / Huns.
So Govan Dodgers / Her Majesties Royals / whatever they want to call themselves are a new club that need to apply to the SFL by the usual procedures...

That's how I see it anyway

Indeed that is why the vote on the 4th is wrong regardless of result. Deciding if a club (new club) can just get 3 straight promotions into SPL as they will atttract cash is wrong on every level.
22-06-2012, 01:15 PM
joe breezy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paisley Hibby

I agree - what I was suggesting was that SPL expunge the Old Huns points from last season so that they are recorded as having come last. That lets Dunfermline stay up, Ross County get promoted and they can tell Sevco that their application to take over the Old Huns place in the SPL is invalid.

Ah, with you now, it's like being a lawyer trying to keep up with all of this :greengrin
22-06-2012, 01:18 PM
cabbageandribs1875

where's donkey doncaster been hiding lately :confused: not heard his words of wisdom for a few weeks now :(
22-06-2012, 01:22 PM
Andy74

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlsberg

Indeed that is why the vote on the 4th is wrong regardless of result. Deciding if a club (new club) can just get 3 straight promotions into SPL as they will atttract cash is wrong on every level.

SPL is membership based though so that's not really true in practice.
22-06-2012, 01:24 PM
StevieC

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

where's donkey doncaster been hiding lately :confused: not heard his words of wisdom for a few weeks now :(

He'll be keeping a low profile dreading the point where it transpires that the SKY deal, the one he was so proud of, isn't worth the paper it is written on!

There should be a vote of no confidence with this guy and he should be emptied and replaced ASAP!
22-06-2012, 01:30 PM
kenny-55

agree

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieC

He'll be keeping a low profile dreading the point where it transpires that the SKY deal, the one he was so proud of, isn't worth the paper it is written on!

There should be a vote of no confidence with this guy and he should be emptied and replaced ASAP!

totally agree this guy is a waste of space

:top marks
22-06-2012, 01:32 PM
cabbageandribs1875

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieC

He'll be keeping a low profile dreading the point where it transpires that the SKY deal, the one he was so proud of, isn't worth the paper it is written on!

There should be a vote of no confidence with this guy and he should be emptied and replaced ASAP!

oor rod hired him, so it's only fair he should propose to firing him as well :agree: i'm sure lots of us all around the country would like a little more of the spotlight put on ogilvie as well, he's probably in the same hideout as doncaster, or maybe he has sought asylum in SFA HQ :cb
22-06-2012, 01:33 PM
johnrebus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caversham Green

No, but the transfer to them can be approved under the articles - they are not specifically ineligible in the way that Dunfermline are. In fact on a strict reading of the rules/Articles Dunfermline are the only football club in Scotland that can't participate in the SPL, because the other requirements can be waived.

Neither Dunfermline Athletic or their fans want to be in SPL next season.

With eight derby matches to look forward to, they have already sold more season tickets than last term.

:cb
22-06-2012, 01:36 PM
Tynie01011973

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

oor rod hired him, so it's only fair he should propose to firing him as well :agree: i'm sure lots of us all around the country would like a little more of the spotlight put on ogilvie as well, he's probably in the same hideout as doncaster, or maybe he has sought asylum in SFA HQ :cb

It will be interesting to see how many of the establishment apologists will survive once the fan's backlash turns the spotlight on them :greengrin
22-06-2012, 01:36 PM
Brando7

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny-55

I was thinking that this not a bad idea saves any voting nonsense as we know how that will turn out a (no) dunfy get saved ross county come up
currant buns in the wilderness and no option to play next season , then expelled later on when all the *rap comes out
happy days

How about a nice wee game off football as a play-off Dunfermline v Dunee winners go up, big pay day for both clubs at Hampden n bit of excitement back into the game.....no?
22-06-2012, 01:37 PM
HFC 0-7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paisley Hibby

Don´t see why SPL can´t simply expunge enough points retrospectively (under rule H5) to make Oldhun the club finishing last. Ross County then get their share and Dunfermline stay up as they were not in last place. There´s then no decision for the SPL to make on a Newco. It all becomes the SFL´s problem :-)

They cant expunge the points retrospectively because of the split. The split means that even if the 6th placed team finished with lower points than any of the bottom 6 teams they cannot be placed below them. In addition the 5 games post split would all have been wrong as the bottom 6 should have been playing rangers.
22-06-2012, 01:56 PM
ian cruise

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brando7

How about a nice wee game off football as a play-off Dunfermline v Dunee winners go up, big pay day for both clubs at Hampden n bit of excitement back into the game.....no?

i was going to post the same thing. What a start to the season
22-06-2012, 02:00 PM
Andy74

The rules I've seen posted here today don't match the ones posted a few weeks ago.

It was much clearer in the ones I'd seen before that the next team in the SFL would get an invite of a club went bust after the end of the season.

No idea where they came from though.
22-06-2012, 03:00 PM
IWasThere2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnrebus

Neither Dunfermline Athletic or their fans want to be in SPL next season.

With eight derby matches to look forward to, they have already sold more season tickets than last term.

:cb

There would be NO sporting integrity in reinstating the Pars. They were bottom - they got relegated.

It has to be Dundee IMHO.
22-06-2012, 03:02 PM
JeMeSouviens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy74

The rules I've seen posted here today don't match the ones posted a few weeks ago.

It was much clearer in the ones I'd seen before that the next team in the SFL would get an invite of a club went bust after the end of the season.

No idea where they came from though.

The SPL changed its articles of association recently, part of which was to allow all clubs to get a vote on the transfer of share. Didn't see the full set of changes made public anywhere.
22-06-2012, 03:05 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paisley Hibby

I agree - what I was suggesting was that SPL expunge the Old Huns points from last season so that they are recorded as having come last. That lets Dunfermline stay up, Ross County get promoted and they can tell Sevco that their application to take over the Old Huns place in the SPL is invalid.

On what grounds would you do that, though? They fulfilled all their fixtures, and haven't been found guilty in the double-contracts thing yet.
22-06-2012, 03:44 PM
matty_f

Falkirk look like objecting to any moves fpr the Huns dropping to the first division. http://www.falkirkfc.co.uk/index.php...medium=twitter
22-06-2012, 03:51 PM
HH81

There is a rumour down here rangers have agreed a fall back deal with a non league club in England. One lower than conf North.

Doubt its true but was told the club had agreed to been moved to Scotland and a route into the English leagues. I'm told bury rumour was a smoke screen for this.
22-06-2012, 03:51 PM
Stevie Reid

Quote:

Originally Posted by s.a.m

Worrying bit of back-pedalling here:

Keith Downie‏@STVkeithAberdeen Chariman Stewart Milne says that contracry to reports, Aberdeen have still to make a decision on Rangers newco in SPL.

That was actually built in to the story that BBC released this morning: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18539483

An Aberdeen spokesman told BBC Scotland: "The consequences of not voting no would be overwhelming from a supporters' perspective.
"There is now an avalanche in terms of fans' feeling here."
However, the Pittodrie club has not made an official announcement and chairman Stewart Milne said they had yet to reach a final decision.
"This is a critical decision which will have major implications for all clubs and the future of Scottish football," said Milne. "The views of our fans and the issue of sporting integrity will clearly be a major influencing factor in our decision-making."
22-06-2012, 03:51 PM
VickMackie

Quote:

Originally Posted by matty_f

Falkirk look like objecting to any moves fpr the Huns dropping to the first division. http://www.falkirkfc.co.uk/index.php...medium=twitter

Brilliant statement. Especially the bit about 100p in the pound.
22-06-2012, 03:56 PM
VickMackie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevie Reid

That was actually built in to the story that BBC released this morning: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18539483

An Aberdeen spokesman told BBC Scotland: "The consequences of not voting no would be overwhelming from a supporters' perspective.
"There is now an avalanche in terms of fans' feeling here."
However, the Pittodrie club has not made an official announcement and chairman Stewart Milne said they had yet to reach a final decision.
"This is a critical decision which will have major implications for all clubs and the future of Scottish football," said Milne. "The views of our fans and the issue of sporting integrity will clearly be a major influencing factor in our decision-making."

Companies usually make decisions on products on MoSCoW ratings. Must have, should have, would have, could have.

Sporting integrity = must have
Supportive fan base = must have
Financial income = must have

These are the 3 main ones moving forward. 2 of the three would be required as a minimum, usually all 3. It's impossible to get with a newco.
22-06-2012, 04:09 PM
Sylar

Quote:

Originally Posted by TQM

There would be NO sporting integrity in reinstating the Pars. They were bottom - they got relegated.

It has to be Dundee IMHO.

Dundee finished closer to the bottom of division one than they did to the top of the league (in terms of points differential) and did not meet the necessary requirements to get to the SPL.

Dunfermline finished bottom of the league by 8 points and were deservingly relegated from the SPL, but then again, they were competing in a league against a team who cheated and have been punished accordingly. The cards were stacked against the Pars (and every other club in the SPL).

In terms of footballing performance, none of them "deserve" to be in the SPL.

If Dundee (or Livingston, or Airdrie Utd...) ever make it back to the SPL on merit, having properly rebuilt and worked their way back whilst learning the lessons of their financial misdemeanors of the past, I'll tip my hat to them. However, Dundee cheated many people out of significant amounts of money - not once, but twice - and there are a large number of people up here on Tayside (as well you know) who have been royally screwed over by the previous incumbents at Dens Park. To think that this club will now benefit and be defaulted into the most lucrative league in Scotland because of the financial mismanagement of others is simply galling.

The ONLY way this would be settled fairly is either having an 11 team SPL next year or forcing a playoff between the 2 clubs. IMHO.

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