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"we the ppl " A phrase very synonymous with complete roasters. I Tend to agree that I feel sorry for the Police Officer. Very poor than the majority of arrests seem to be for breaking curfew and the real terrorists, at least at the moment, don't appear to have been arrested.Quote:
Originally Posted by AltheHibby
There's videos up of two Washington Post video journalists being arrested for filming protestors after curfew, rather than the protesters themselves. Media were exempt from the curfew.Quote:
Originally Posted by wookie70
That along with the videos of police opening the barriers raises a load of questions.
She's not holding back is she?
She's brilliant. It's putting Pence in an even tougher position, keeping the heat right on him, making him choose between country and Trump in terms of his legacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee
There are huge questions on all aspects of security imo. Usually anyone trying to take control of a country needs the military and police. There were certainly enough signs in the footage that the Police weren't really doing much to stop the coup. I wonder what their instructions and orders were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
There will always be some decent cops, even in the US, and it may be the officer was put in a position they had no choice. Of course it could just be one of the shoot first ask questions later cops that seem to be in abundance over there.
CNN putting before and after videos of certain Republican senators speeches. Great viewing if somewhat cringeworthy.
Watching the Video of the black officer retreating up the stairs with the mob encroaching. Can't help but feel that if it was the other way round and it was black rioters and a white officer, then there'd be several dead rioters.
Have seen a lot of news coverage there has been very little or no discussion about the policing in terms of why there was so few, how passive they seemed to be and what was the situation re national guard and comparison with Blm marches.
https://youtu.be/JpUxQyLCBbkQuote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
Referenced by Colbert. Normally a comedian who comments on the days news.
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The new Law passed by Trump to protect statues means that the people who damaged the Capital building last night face up to 10 years in prison. They better hope Trump pardons them in the next two weeks.
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Surely it should be more than 10 years for taking part in a Coup. Even in a land of low sentences like the UK even planning a terrorist act usually means life. These rioters were taking part in a terrorist plotQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
And the complete idiot who stole a letter from Pelosi desk, waving it about on TV and giving his name - 5 years right there!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Police officer now died after riots yesterday
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Trumps latest video release. 🤣
He moves and talks like he’s some sort of automaton...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
That though was his version of a concession speech and is in stark contrast to his alternative self of yesterday.
It's like someone off camera is pointing a gun at him.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
I had a wee theory in my head yesterday that he’s been told yesterday to do what he’s told for two weeks and he gets to finish his presidency without impeachment, now I’m convinced of it. No way he wrote his concession statement or that speech.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Probably making a u turn so that he is legally eligible to stand at the next election.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haymaker
:aok:
Thats exactly what it will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
My "gun" was metaphorical. His speech reminded me of some I've made myself after coming to agreement after industrial disputes. A deal has been done and both sides will have made concessions. Everything Trump has done in the past few weeks has resembled a slow pattern of escalation and culminating in what we saw 2 days ago. He's either now got what he wanted and we're unlikely to ever hear what that is officially, or he's been convinced in no uncertain terms that any further escalation will be counterproductive. We'll see in the coming weeks which one it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
Also, it will have come as something of a shock to him that the people below him are abandoning ship rather than support him in his campaign to subvert the election result. I suspect that he thought that the marchers would cause Congress to see the light and do this. There may now even be a suspicion in a corner of his mind that he did genuinely lose. I'm confident he'll be able to overcome this temporary connection with reality and convince himself again that a grave injustice has been done. I expect him back to his old self shortly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
Yep probably as soon as his twitter is re-activated.Quote:
Originally Posted by ballengeich
He's back on it now.Quote:
Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee
Just caught up with that. Great viewing. I particularly liked the phrase a black hole of whitenessQuote:
Originally Posted by Radium
CNN really not taking hostages in their before and after reporting on Republicans. Ted Cruz has just been given the treatment.
He should have been able to empty his clip in to the crowd with impunity, the same way a white counter-part could have done if it were as you described.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callum_62
So that's now five people dead.
The poor guy was just trying to do his job.
Federal Prosecuters now investigating Trump's role in inciting riot and sedition. Stripey suntan time Donald.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
:top marks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
If only.
Can't see it happening, though
I’d imagine Trump will spend an awful lot of time defending himself against prosecution for years to come.
There’s bound to be enquiries into so many things, Russia being top of the list.
No, no he shouldn’t.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
You’re not seriously suggesting that the police should have just opened fire into a crowd?
I thought that’s exactly the stuff that the US is trying to move away from.
I get that emotions are high, but your post is ridiculous in the extreme.
It wouldn't be a great surprise to me if he gets a pardon, for the federal charges at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
So much of Biden's work is going to be about healing the divisions in America. In that light, a pardon would be a small price to pay. The alternative would be making a martyr out of Trump, and widening the divide.
It would stick in the throat, of course, but it's political reality.
A pardon with the proviso neither him or his family ever run for public office again?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Might be an option.Quote:
Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee
That might not help the feeling of martyrdom, of course, but how far should JB go to appease the right?
I think that would be suicidal for the Democrats though. It would tear their own party apart. I don’t think he will even consider it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
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Of course President Pence might pardon him if he is removed from office next week.
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What would be the merit in that, given that he's only got a couple of weeks to go? Does that stop him from running in 2024?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Appeasing fascists doesn't work, they only understand strength and appeasement will be interpreted as weakness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
They want him out now before he does any more damage out of spite.
Yes but also, there needs to be consequences for inciting an attack on the govt and murdering a police officer.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
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Now the orange baby has tweeted that he won't attend Joe Biden's inauguration.
Stuck at Prestwick failing to gain admission to the country, I hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by AltheHibby
It's tragic but unsurprising. I can't wait for a definitive biography of Trump's life; one that covers all his criminality and sociopathy over decades. What a read that will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by AltheHibby
What strikes me is the tone of the speeches he made looking like a hostage, and his penultimate tweet. Put simply, there's no way that the same person posted these two messages, differing entirely in tone and general literacy, eight minutes apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by AltheHibby
Quote:
The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!
was followed by
Quote:
To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th.
The worry is quite how disturbed he is. James Naughtie was on radio yesterday saying that shortly before his resignation, Richard Nixon was depressed and frequently drunk, so chief of staff Alexander Haig took steps to disable the nuclear weapon codes the president had control over.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I heard that interview this morning. And Naughtie thinks someone in a similar position to Haig today will have put steps in place to protect the codes. If the NSA hasn’t already.Quote:
Originally Posted by ballengeich
My post was too strong, a should have been worded differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
I wasn’t for a minute suggesting he should fire his gun into a crowd.
But my opinion is that a white counterpart could have taken that action without fear of repercussions; whereas a black officer could have felt torn between the two options and faced a very real choice of being beaten to death by a baying mob or shooting his way out and facing criminal charges at the end.
First time ever?Quote:
Originally Posted by AltheHibby
No, it's occurred 3 times before but all in the 19th century.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
Nixon wasn’t at Ford’s.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
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Ford was sworn in inside the White House after Nixon's resignation. He then gave Nixon a full pardon for Watergate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
That’s why I wary of impeachment. Don’t want Pence in to pardon him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
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He is a child. Imagine any sane person voting for him. I genuinely do not understand why anyone who can objectively look at his four years in office and his previous history could put up any kind of argument for voting for him. Arguable most dangerous world leader at the moment p
A pardon would only come with some sort of concessions. Might be better than dealing with his crap for another 4 years sniping away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Personally I'd stop him holding anymore rallies :greengrin
Nixon admitted nothing and Ford pardoned him for any and all crimes committed while he was President.Quote:
Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee
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Yup. We have to remember that Trump increased his vote tally in November from 2016. He actually gained support.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Democrats won as they got more of their support out to vote as they understood what was at stake. If Biden decides to not take any action to "heal the nation" it will be a colossal error and lose the Democrats huge support.
We've already had Nixon escape justice on the grounds of healing the nation and here we are again 50 odd years later with Trump. To me it would be unconscionable to let him get away just because he's powerful.
Ultimately any investigation needs to be impartial and fair. Maybe no crimes have been committed but investigation is essential to prevent Trump 2.0,and show that American does actually have some semblance of a justice system.
That would potentially be challenged as a First Amendment issue in the Supreme Court. I think the First Amendment protects an individual’s right to political candidacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee
I read this on twitter by Emma Kennedy
It seems the insurrectionist who died during his assault on the capitol, a man who wrote on Parler he was going “to ***** this country up” accidentally tasered himself in the balls while trying to steal a painting, triggering a heart attack.
Paging the Darwin Awards.
It's probably wrong, but I laughed reading that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Who said men can't multi-task.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Trump kicked of Twitter permanently now.
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Trump's twitter account has now been permanently closed.
cnn?Quote:
Originally Posted by ozyhibby
New York Times web site has it tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
https://twitter.com/twittersafety/st...634838528?s=21
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He basically doesn't exist now.
I'm quite surprised, but pleased.
He'll be going radge so his next moves could be "special"!
Canny be trusted on twitter but has the nuclear codes, says it all really
Yes. The next two weeks could be even more insane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
Even if he wanted to he'd not be allowed to launch any nukes at this stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
😂😂😂😂😂Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Twitter has been busy deleting posts from him on the official President account and suspended his campaign account which he also tried to use.
His immediate efforts to get around the ban just goes to show how much he valued that method of communication.
Hi JohnQuote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
I am a Nigerian Prince who has also recently been the victim of a rigged election where the majority didn't vote for me. I now find myself removed from office.
I am currently holed up in a toilet behind a secret panel in my office.
During my time in power I have accumulated many millions of "campaign donations" which now need to be moved out of the reach of my enemies, the Mexicanadians.
If you send me all your bank account details, your pin numbers and passwords I will transfer all the money to you and we can split it evenly later.
Until we meet again.
Your friend Vladimir (the prince one, obviously not that guy in Russia).
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Nancy Pelosi has told the head of the joint chiefs of staff to hide the missile keys. Genuinely has done that!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
Official @potus account has been suspended too. He has been removed from platforms I hadn't even heard of! Madman
:faf:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhjRXO72v1s
The excellent MSNBC with excellent and previously uncovered video of the Capitol.
It's horrifying. If anyone tries to say that Trump and his supporters aren't fascists, show them this.
Power is falling away from him at speed now. After the 20th he is going to find himself very exposed. He will spend the rest of his life in meetings with lawyers and will soon declare himself medically unfit to defend himself. And that’s a best case scenario where he avoids prison.Quote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
The tech companies that are banning him now, when it’s too late to reverse the damage he done are also showing how weak they are in that they fear the incoming government. They are worried about being broken up and a barrage of new regulations. This is a defensive move by them.
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Don't believe the hype in the press the POTUS can't single handed luanch a nuclear attack. It has always required two people. Imho Biden just as like to in any case and I certainly don't trust Pelosi.
I just watched that and you're right it is horrific.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
I think the calls for impeachment will gather over the weekend and make it inevitable it will happen on Monday.
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]Quote:
Originally Posted by spike220
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Opinions are worthless without evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by spike220
The floor is yours. Why is Biden as likely and why is Pelosi not trustworthy?
I don't have any psychological asessments of either, these are my opinions, based on my own observations through the opaque media, opinions are what we do in forums.... What is your opinion? It's okay if is different to mine BTW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
Opinions are genuinely worthless if they don't come from a qualified source, I follow facts and what those who have genuine insight. Opinions are what we do on forums, indeed, but if your opinions are based on nothing at all then they're worth as much and you're wasting your and everybodies time in participating if this is the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by spike220
From what we are being shown, Donald Trump is an out of control sociopath who is whipping up crowds determined to attack American democracy. Joe Biden is at least trying to bring sense to things and has a career based on trying to find concensus and is skilled in diplomacy, so is a far safer set of hands to run things.
As I say, I'd love to see the evidence that you surely must have based your opinion on that Biden is not a considerably safer set of hands.
Again, I'd also love to see the evidence that you've based your mistrust of Pelosi on.
The best thing Biden could do for western democracies would be to destroy Twitter and Facebook, or completely change them through strict regulation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Not sure where you are getting your "evidence" from? The US nuclear launch protocol has nothing to do with "press hype" - the President is "ultimately" the sole authority - formally, the President does not need approval or consent to launch nuclear missiles, he can take advice from the SoD, StratCom; Pentagon, military advisors, and any other others or leave it as he pleases it seems.Quote:
Originally Posted by spike220
Strengthening Checks on Presidential Nuclear Launch Authority | Arms Control Association
Protocol for a U.S. Nuclear Strike (wagingpeace.org)
Nuclear bomb launch procedure by US government and president - Business Insider
You say it has always required two people, I don't think that is the case, what, e.g. would be the logic in that if a decision has to be made quickly and one of the two disagrees with the other? Are you mixing this up perhaps with the missile operators who have to be 2 in number? :confused:
Well mostly conversations with Americans, so definitely not evidence. I have quite a few friends and acquaintancesfrom the US across the spectrum. The feeling I get is a huge sense disunity. Both sides are to blame for this and media and social media both play up to this. Many families are torn apart by growing political devisions. Which does not benefit society. The thinking that One side will be the safe pair of hands is in my opinion not realistic if it divides society further. Some have talked about the need to desolve the United States to address the deep divisions. Not something I have ever heard before in my lifetime. So I don't see stability returning to the USA soon. But I am sure some of the Hibs netters living in the USA will have their own take on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
All very interesting opinions in this thread.
My main thought is why did the police etc allow this demonstration such close and easy access to the buildings themselves ?
I don't want to go into collusion theories; that set of buildings must surely be easy to defend. What did not happen and why.
John Barron genuinely was an alias Trump used previously. 😁Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
The President has sole authority but only if it’s legal. There are protocols in place. The country would need to be attacked first. If all the protocols are not followed then the generals will refuse to act. It’s not just a red button on his desk.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeJay
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Here's the Big Red Button.
https://external-content.duckduckgo....jpg&f=1&nofb=1
No - the power is in the hands of the civilians, i.e. the people (represented here by the President) and NOT in the hands of the military or others: there is justified reason to this being the case. Think about it for a moment!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
The links I posted explain it better, but dissenting generals as you imply are not logical. Imagine the country was under attack and people and generals start debating "should we shouldn't we press the button" - someone has to decide and the protocol clearly says it is the President and he is the sole authority. The "country has to be under attack" is not true either. There is not a "no-first use policy" in the USA, it all seems to be under review and some people don't agree with the current situation, but it is what it is.
I never mentioned a big red button by the way, but I think Mr Orange thinks there is one ...:greengrin
You are correct in all the above.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeJay
However, under the circumstances, I think there's a very good chance that the military would deduce that the president was unstable and resist his demands until he was Amendment 25'd.
I would hope...
I agree but then you would have to do the same with the News Broadcasters. I have been watching Fox just to see what the far right are saying. You would still think Trump was the reasonable voice in this if you only listened to Fox News. I always try and seek both sides of the story although I am similar in politics to Corbyn. The Uk is full of people with similar views as Trump voters and they have a poster boy here too. Racism and looking after yourself at the expense of your community are as much British values as American ones. So sad that working people continually paint targets on each others backs rather than those who create the world's ills. I always used to say there are far more good people in the world than bad but Facebook and Twitter is starting to change my mind on thatQuote:
Originally Posted by bawheid
It's not just my opinion that USA is divided and is not well served by the political distrust of politicians across the spectrum. Not really evidence as such but just illustrates the point I made earlier.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-...ATR33MAFZBXZY/
While the democrats aren't blameless, putting them on the same level of blame for the divisiveness as the GOP is mad. Guys like Cruz and Hawley should be facing jail for the chaos they've helped cause.