Congestion charges and low emission zones

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

The problem is with making sweeping statements against platforms as a whole, is it is hard to gather which claims you're denying. Are you denying "all" the claims?

Are you denying that five councils in Greater London took Sadiq Khan to court, and since Sadiq Khan won the court case, the five councils have refused Sadiq Khan permission to erect ULEZ signs up in their areas, leading to a loophole that drivers can exploit?

If citizens of Greater London are happy with the ULEZ expansion, then why are their councils fighting tooth and nail against Sadiq Khan? This is also Main stream news.

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I'll trust platforms or not based on my own critical faculties, which tells me not to trust GB News, the Daily Mail, the Daily Express ever and to take Talk TVs output with a huge pinch of salt, given its run by The Sun newspaper, owned by one of the most corrosive personalities in history.

This is now a wedge issue being pushed by those platforms as a way to push people towards voting Tory.

I understand the inconveniences caused but doing nothing also creates inconveniences directly towards th3 people whose health suffers through pollution and the small fact that the whole planet could be ****** if nothing is done.

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https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news...oogle_vignette


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https://x.com/redfieldwilton/status/...dxJXScFNwz8V4A


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Brussels low traffic city centre plan has tremendous results

https://www.eltis.org/in-brief/news/...-more-bicycles

One year Good Move in Brussels city: 25% less car-traffic and 36% more bicycles

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Brussels low traffic city centre plan has tremendous results

https://www.eltis.org/in-brief/news/...-more-bicycles

One year Good Move in Brussels city: 25% less car-traffic and 36% more bicycles

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Yeh, but that could never work here.[emoji849]


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Originally Posted by Kato

I'll trust platforms or not based on my own critical faculties, which tells me not to trust GB News, the Daily Mail, the Daily Express ever and to take Talk TVs output with a huge pinch of salt, given its run by The Sun newspaper, owned by one of the most corrosive personalities in history.

This is now a wedge issue being pushed by those platforms as a way to push people towards voting Tory.

I understand the inconveniences caused but doing nothing also creates inconveniences directly towards th3 people whose health suffers through pollution and the small fact that the whole planet could be ****** if nothing is done.

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I have largely removed myself from this argument as it was something I was beginning to get over passionate about and it was taking up to much of my time. Also by some sheer coincidence the engine on my polluting van packed in just a few days ago which has forced me to replace it with a compliant van anyway, so the issue no longer effects me. Therefore I totally respect your right to be choosy about what sources you respect.

However it would be a bit hypocritical of me to just suddenly abandon the ULEZ campaigners that only days ago had my fully pledged support. So now that I have a compliant van, I will end this with declaring my support to the PetrolHeads who are a group of compliant vehicle owners whom recently had a protest driving through London in their highly polluting vehicles on behalf of ULEZ protesters. Their message was to draw awareness to all the expensive and highly polluting vehicles that Sadiq Khan says is ok to drive in London. Those vehicles include Lamborghinis, Bentley's and a whole host of other vehicles which spew out a lot more pollution than your average non compliant car, including a monster truck.

Apologies that the source for this protest comes only from BrownCarGuy. I assume though that the protest is still genuinely true and did in fact happen!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JM1zqs2rIk&t=498s

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

I have largely removed myself from this argument as it was something I was beginning to get over passionate about and it was taking up to much of my time. Also by some sheer coincidence the engine on my polluting van packed in just a few days ago which has forced me to replace it with a compliant van anyway, so the issue no longer effects me. Therefore I totally respect your right to be choosy about what sources you respect.

However it would be a bit hypocritical of me to just suddenly abandon the ULEZ campaigners that only days ago had my fully pledged support. So now that I have a compliant van, I will end this with declaring my support to the PetrolHeads who are a group of compliant vehicle owners whom recently had a protest driving through London in their highly polluting vehicles on behalf of ULEZ protesters. Their message was to draw awareness to all the expensive and highly polluting vehicles that Sadiq Khan says is ok to drive in London. Those vehicles include Lamborghinis, Bentley's and a whole host of other vehicles which spew out a lot more pollution than your average non compliant car, including a monster truck.

Apologies that the source for this protest comes only from BrownCarGuy. I assume though that the protest is still genuinely true and did in fact happen!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JM1zqs2rIk&t=498s

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Where is your evidence regards to the level of emissions of the vehicles you mentioned?

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Where is your evidence regards to the level of emissions of the vehicles you mentioned?

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I don't know.

I have decided to take up the topic on a Science Forum as opposed to a Football Forum.

If I can get enough Science minded people to reply to the thread I created then I might bring up this topic with them and let you know their opinion.
https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/...cience-or-not/

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

I don't know.

I have decided to take up the topic on a Science Forum as opposed to a Football Forum.

If I can get enough Science minded people to reply to the thread I created then I might bring up this topic with them and let you know their opinion.
https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/...cience-or-not/

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Well, thanks, but no thanks. I do my own research, and don't rely on populism.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Well, thanks, but no thanks. I do my own research, and don't rely on populism.

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Interesting. Feel free to present the findings of your own research. Or don't, if you don't want to.

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

Interesting. Feel free to present the findings of your own research. Or don't, if you don't want to.

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As expected. Nothing to back up your case. I'll take whatever you say with a bucket of salt because you can't provide any evidence that confirms your point of view.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

As expected. Nothing to back up your case. I'll take whatever you say with a bucket of salt because you can't provide any evidence that confirms your point of view.

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My only real point of view is that the ULEZ in its current guise is a cash cow. Far better would have been a Grandfathering scheme to make it easier for poorer people to acquire better cars. Failing that, a complete ban on polluting vehicles, so that everyone with a polluting vehicle is affected, rather than just a minority. Charging £12.50 is not the answer, that is just a cash grab.

Anything else, I do not present as fact anyway, it is very much up for debate, so take it with a pinch of salt by all means.

If you think I am a climate change denialist or global warming denialist or car pollution denialist then you have read my argument wrong. I am actually very supportive of a very strict car pollution scheme. I merely think that the solution should either effect all motorists, or no motorists. I am in favour of everyone with a polluting vehicle having to upgrade tomorrow, regardless of what EURO it is, or what age it is. Most people should be ok with this, because it is 2023, and bank loans for tens of thousands of pounds can be obtained in 1 minute through online banking. I obtained one this morning, and seriously, it took 90 seconds max!

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

I am in favour of everyone with a polluting vehicle having to upgrade tomorrow, regardless of what EURO it is, or what age it is. Most people should be ok with this, because it is 2023, and bank loans for tens of thousands of pounds can be obtained in 1 minute through online banking. I obtained one this morning, and seriously, it took 90 seconds max!

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Ok.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Ok.

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Well if we are concerned about car pollution then surely a brand spanking new Hybrid should be the minimum requirement. Should be compulsory part exchange on a yearly basis until long distance electricity is a possiblity. Why should it be considered any better to drive a polluting 2020 Diesel on the road, than a 2015? If car pollution is killing people then only the strictest measures should do. Total national ban on anyone with less than a 2023 Hybrid, and less of this £12.50 to kill nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

Well if we are concerned about car pollution then surely a brand spanking new Hybrid should be the minimum requirement. Should be compulsory part exchange on a yearly basis until long distance electricity is a possiblity. Why should it be considered any better to drive a polluting 2020 Diesel on the road, than a 2015? If car pollution is killing people then only the strictest measures should do. Total national ban on anyone with less than a 2023 Hybrid, and less of this £12.50 to kill nonsense.

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Hyperbole is rarely useful when trying to get a point across.

The discussion around why a huge 4x4 or a super car that does 10mpg is compliant while an slightly too old Ford fiesta is not is certainly a valid one. But I’d suggest the above is probably not the best way of having said discussion.

To some degree you have to start somewhere and you have to use some sort of measure. And doing an even imperfect something is often better than doing nothing.

These schemes are changing behaviours and literally driving some of the dirtiest vehicles out of town…I struggle to argue against that concept despite agreeing that some of the application of it might be flawed or has unintended consequences or indeed effects some more than others.

Just because that may be true doesn’t mean it shouldn’t still be done.

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Originally Posted by RyeSloan

Hyperbole is rarely useful when trying to get a point across.

The discussion around why a huge 4x4 or a super car that does 10mpg is compliant while an slightly too old Ford fiesta is not is certainly a valid one. But I’d suggest the above is probably not the best way of having said discussion.

To some degree you have to start somewhere and you have to use some sort of measure. And doing an even imperfect something is often better than doing nothing.

These schemes are changing behaviours and literally driving some of the dirtiest vehicles out of town…I struggle to argue against that concept despite agreeing that some of the application of it might be flawed or has unintended consequences or indeed effects some more than others.

Just because that may be true doesn’t mean it shouldn’t still be done.

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I am being perfectly serious that the ULEZ and LEZ does not affect me anymore.

So if people don't want to support a grandfathering scheme, and continue to support a cash cow instead, then I am perfectly in a position myself to campaign for, and insist that everyone suffer stricter laws, and not only those with older than ten year vehicles. I am being serious.

I personally have been to court against TFL in 2016 concerning his congestion charges, and have campaigned online against Sadiq Khan ever since. His ULEZ is a cash cow, and it does not prevent pollution. The court ruled against me, but I chanced that they would not use tax payers money to pursue me in Scotland, and I chucked the court decision in the bin. I was proven correct, as they did not pursue me, and I don't have to worry about admitting it in public anymore as their five years to take me to a civil court are up. But I really do despise the Mayor of London, I must admit.

But I really am ok Jack! I was not ok when I first made this thread. But circumstances change. I am now due to my dislike for Sadiq Khan willing to side with ANTI-ULEZ protesters from the poorer areas that believe that they should be given more time. But if they are not willing to support themselves, then I am equally willing to protest against Sadiq Khan onside of ANTI-ULEZ protesters of a different sort. And that is that the ULEZ is not strict enough.

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

I am being perfectly serious that the ULEZ and LEZ does not affect me anymore.

So if people don't want to support a grandfathering scheme, and continue to support a cash cow instead, then I am perfectly in a position myself to campaign for, and insist that everyone suffer stricter laws, and not only those with older than ten year vehicles. I am being serious.

I personally have been to court against TFL in 2016 concerning his congestion charges, and have campaigned online against Sadiq Khan ever since. His ULEZ is a cash cow, and it does not prevent pollution. The court ruled against me, but I chanced that they would not use tax payers money to pursue me in Scotland, and I chucked the court decision in the bin. I was proven correct, as they did not pursue me, and I don't have to worry about admitting it in public anymore as their five years to take me to a civil court are up. But I really do despise the Mayor of London, I must admit.

But I really am ok Jack! I was not ok when I first made this thread. But circumstances change. I am now due to my dislike for Sadiq Khan willing to side with ANTI-ULEZ protesters from the poorer areas that believe that they should be given more time. But if they are not willing to support themselves, then I am equally willing to protest against Sadiq Khan onside of ANTI-ULEZ protesters of a different sort. And that is that the ULEZ is not strict enough.

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I see hyperbole is somewhat in your nature.

I did like the line about going to court against TFL regarding the congestion charge…sounds way better than saying you didn’t pay some fines.

Anyhoo if you are now going to campaign for even cleaner air and tougher ULEZ then I’d suggest the policy is already working.

You’ll need to come up with a name for whatever is more Ultra than Ultra though to describe what you are now going to campaign for….just channel that inner hyperbole and I’m sure you’ll come up with something rather snappy soon enough [emoji2957]

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

But I really do despise the Mayor of London, I must admit.

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Ok.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Ok.

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To be fair, Khan is killing the planet with his demand for newer cars.

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

To be fair, Khan is killing the planet with his demand for newer cars.

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Doh!

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

To be fair, Khan is killing the planet with his demand for newer cars.

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Ulez has been shown to not really reduce co2, it does reduce no2. So as the article says good for our lungs but not the planet. The only thing that has reduced so2 via less travel is congestion charges and no car zones. London saw a 30% reduction after the congestion charge

Manse Road back open to traffic, bus gate temporarily closed.

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Originally Posted by silverhibee

Manse Road back open to traffic, bus gate temporarily closed.

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Before anyone gets excited, it's only temporary as the only other exit from the Featherhall area was blocked/obstructed by roadworks.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...-start-4353833

Progress.


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https://x.com/peterwalker99/status/1...dxJXScFNwz8V4A


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://x.com/peterwalker99/status/1...dxJXScFNwz8V4A


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We now have the Daily Mail and Express literally setting Government policy.

Actually, it's worse than that as Sunak is pushing against 15 minute cities, which is delving into heavy fringe conspiracy theory territory.

And baffling as 15 minute cities are just generally a great idea all round, and are actually much closer to the "good old days" where you shop locally in your community than what we have now (folk driving using half their Saturday to drive to Costco and back to buy 8 years worth of toilet paper for 5% less).

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Originally Posted by neil7908

We now have the Daily Mail and Express literally setting Government policy.

Actually, it's worse than that as Sunak is pushing against 15 minute cities, which is delving into heavy fringe conspiracy theory territory.

And baffling as 15 minute cities are just generally a great idea all round, and are actually much closer to the "good old days" where you shop locally in your community than what we have now (folk driving using half their Saturday to drive to Costco and back to buy 8 years worth of toilet paper for 5% less).

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It’s the weirdest conspiracy of them all. Having shops near your house is a way of oppressing the masses.[emoji23]


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https://news.stv.tv/east-central/edi...suvs-from-city

As a former SUV driver who switched to something smaller, I support this.[emoji106]


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Does anyone know how old foreign vehicles will be affected by LEZ and ULEZ?

Are they "exempt"?

I dare say all the crooks that don't properly register their vehicles won't be getting fined either!

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://news.stv.tv/east-central/edi...suvs-from-city

As a former SUV driver who switched to something smaller, I support this.[emoji106]
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The emotive language is all over the place in that article.
What exactly is "gas guzzling".
Are they against SUV's or 4x4's? They're not necessarily the same thing.
Pretty sure there was a Top Gear episode that decreed the best 4x4 was actually a Fiat Panda. Hardly a gas guzzling SUV style of vehicle.

Most of those large SUV's are actually faux by faux's rather than 4x4's.
Re size, the general size of vehicles have grown massively over the last 30 years. I took a pic of a Austin mini next to a BMW mini, maybe 15 years in age between them and the BMW looked to be about 50% bigger in bulk (not necessarily 50% bigger in length/width). I don't agree with it myself but I can understand why some drivers think larger vehicles are safer for them (not necessarily safer for those on the outside).