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Think the stats say it's a comparatively good record don't they? If you ignore the stats and don't compare them to what's gone on in the last 145 years can you think it's not good? By setting 100% win targets you're setting yourself up to fail (or setting the manager up to fail).Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Hatrick
Better memory than me then, I don’t remember that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
There's still time for him to improve it. Does he have to be the best in our history for it to be recognised as good?Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Hatrick
I don't think his home record does stand up to scrutiny as I've pointed out in my posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
Had our away form not been exceptionally good last season it would be a different story altogether.
I can't imagine winning 52.5% of available points at home in the league is deemed good enough in any league? It's not great.
On the same token, What memorable home wins do we have? Two wins against Aberdeen and Motherwell on penalties?
I found it a bizarre thing to bring up, rather than the good things from that time. When the current team have some of those type of wins to remember, I’ll bring them up as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
Ok, I thought the 33 games were all competitions rather than just the league. My point/opinion remains the same, I think we’ve been pretty poor at home and that’s a big factor in why ER is as empty and quiet as it is. By contrast, we’ve been good away from home under JR, our away crowds are good, and it’s a whole lot more enjoyable.
I remember it being back page of the EEN and being surprised it was a big deal. Just done a quick google and 2005 we done 6 straight away wins - probably that one, lost the 7th.Quote:
Originally Posted by bingo70
Comparatively to previous managers it is good, yes. I’d more interested in comparing it to teams that have finished third place though seeing as that’s our aim going forward. We’re aiming to finish third each season, not just be as good or slightly better than we have been previously seeing as we next to never finish 3rd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
We’ve historically underachieved. We’re aiming to be best of the rest now, we need to aim for better than just being comparatively good to people who didn’t manage that to get there and/or stay there. We need to be aiming to have similar and/or better records than teams who have finished third previously.
Of course there is. And that’s what this thread is all about really, folk wanting us to improve on it. Fingers crossed we can manage that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
You need to benchmark against something - what’s gone before is a good start, League pacing is another, points per game is a decent one to pick out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
I know “what is good?” is subjective but to answer that you need to use something as a measure.
I agree that historically the record isn't good and that 5th isn't very good - but it's still ok/good. 4th is good, 3rd is very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Hatrick
And we finished 3rd. Some are definitely holding Jack Ross to higher standards than we've done to other managers.
I would agree he’s being held to a higher standard but If we’re aiming higher now then Ross has to be held to a higher standard I’d say. If we want to finish higher than we historically do then we have to expect more of everyone involved in our club than we used to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
Great Post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Hatrick
Perfectly sums up why we are discussing his Home Record and Big Game Record.
The Club has moved forward off the field under Ron.
I think you're right to some extent. My point is we did finish higher than we historically do but it's still not good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Hatrick
Certainly in the later stages of the cups last season it wasn't good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
I thought that would be the case and I agree that is a sensible comparison to make rather than just league games.Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
However I still don't agree that Ross' home record is better than Mowbray's.
If my research is correct then I believe we won 31 out of 53 home matches under Mowbray in all competitions - win percentage of 58.5%.
We have won 22 out of 42 home matches in all competitions so far under Ross - win percentage of 52.4%.
More than happy for that to be proved incorrect - I personally have no axe to grind with Jack Ross at the moment.
Source - Soccerbase.com
How many of them were at ER?Quote:
Originally Posted by 90274
So at home in all competitions, Mowbray considerably better?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir David Gray
If 6% is "considerable" then yes it looks like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 90274
I’d be interested to see the win percentages at home in the league of teams that have previously finished third.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs
I do think that it would be the case that most seasons a 42% home win record wouldn’t usually be good enough. I know that overall it’s not only home games that matters and that away games matter just as much but in the context of this thread home games are all that matter.
If we have one of the lowest home win % of teams that finish third then I’d suggest that would mean there’s a good chance we’d struggle to finish third very often unless it gets better.
Or, if we get the Home Record sorted out, we can challenge for 2nd?Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Hatrick
Or that as well which ultimately seems to be Ron’s aim :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by 90274
Ron is showing ambition off the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Hatrick
Time to show ambition on the field.
Would it be to much to ask for us to have near enough 100% win ratio against the 7 lower teams and at least 50% against Rangers,Celtic, Hearts and Aberdeen. I'm pretty sure when Ron said he wanted to be the best of the rest he was looking for us to at least challenge the top 2 and not be getting humped at home by Livi, Ross C, Motherwell and Dundee U, and a 0-1 loss to St Johnstone.
That is too much to ask imo and I say that as someone who thinks we should be better at home. I reckon 11 or so wins would be really good and about where we should be aiming. 14 or so wins as you’ve described would be utterly ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
To put that into perspective, that many wins would put you 3 points short of St Johnstone who finished 5th. That’s without considering the 19 away games.
Yes, that would clearly be too much to ask. No one aside from Rangers and Celtic have come even close to that in the history of scottish football.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
Finished 3rd makes us the best of the rest.
Very much a, if my aunty had baws argument there, we did get points away from home and that combined with our home results was enough to get us 3rdQuote:
Originally Posted by 90274
I think we are getting too bogged down in the stats side of things. Even if under JR we had the same win rate as under TM, I personally enjoyed watching Tony's team a damned sight more than this one. We need to find a better way of playing at home, simple as that. Away from home suits us but for ER we want attacking football, ok Mr. Ross?
Would you like to play attacking football all the time and get beat or play the way the manager wants and get results?Quote:
Originally Posted by CJHibby
I think the current debate shows that it’s not just all about results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovethehibs
Anybody supporting Hibs understands we’re not going to win every week. But if you look at teams who have finished in comparable league positions to this one and I can’t remember the same level of debate about it not being good to watch or whatever. Think that is also reflected in the number of people turning up to watch at ER.
If we were playing all out attack every week and getting humped i guarantee folk would be on here moaning that we need to be more defensive, fans will never be happyQuote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C