European super league

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Originally Posted by Vault Boy

UEFA conducting meetings now with the outcome a few hours away apparently, so the rumours of cancellation might end up being true - but obviously those saying it's already official are off the mark. Wonder what stories we'll be waking up to.

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So basically it will get harder and harder for clubs from smaller countries to put together any sort of European run, as I imagine UEFA will bend over backwards to give the bigger clubs and leagues a much bigger slice of the cake and give more places in competitions to the bigger leagues, with clubs from smaller leagues losing out.

It also occurs to me that if, big if, the Super League goes ahead there will be a lot of clubs kacking it in England in case the EPL loses out on sponsorship and TV money, leaving them with high debt and financially exposed.

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Originally Posted by green day

Their intention is to run this concurrently with continuing to compete in the domestic leagues which gives an indication of the end game.

i.e. some fudge with UEFA to adjust the "Champions League" in order to alter the entry criteria / prize money to ensure the richest clubs remain rich*

Whatever the outcome, if it does not continue to be based notionally on qualification, the top European prize will be devalued even more.


*Should be pointed out that these clubs are not actually rich - most, if not all of them are in deep financial trouble - Barcelona are $1bn in debt. They are a bit like our banks in the financial crisis - deemed too big to fail.

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I think UEFA will find a "compromise" with the clubs and bigger leagues that gives more CL places to them at the expense of smaller leagues' champions being excluded completely from the competition and having to play in the Europa and the Challenge league.

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Originally Posted by GloryGlory

I think UEFA will find a "compromise" with the clubs and bigger leagues that gives more CL places to them at the expense of smaller leagues' champions being excluded completely from the competition and having to play in the Europa and the Challenge league.

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That’s exactly what is going to happen. I doubt Scottish clubs will be involved in the Champions League once that grubby deal has been done.

I wonder though can guess which TV company is behind all this as you don't have a European Super Duper league without guaranteed subscription TV money on a nod and a wink.

Interesting dilema for armchair football fans who may vehemently oppose this idea but who also subscribe to sports TV channels.

After all the £3.5billion isn't just coming from fresh air.

I dont think it will succeed but it will force UEFA to give even more concessions to the major clubs.

They were already talking about "wildcards" into the Champions League and you can see that being extended to include "permanent members" and eventually this concept of a super league will win by default.

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Originally Posted by Bishop Hibee

I think they’ve just not joined yet rather than declined. Sitting on the fence. Leipzig were created as a money making venture in the first place.

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Yes - a lot of these clubs are already the playthings of billionaires. You can see a situation developing where the league becomes a franchise similar to the NFL, with the clubs able to be bought and sold and moved lock, stock and barrel at the whim of owners, who treat them as just another commodity to be traded.

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Originally Posted by green day

Their intention is to run this concurrently with continuing to compete in the domestic leagues which gives an indication of the end game.

i.e. some fudge with UEFA to adjust the "Champions League" in order to alter the entry criteria / prize money to ensure the richest clubs remain rich*

Whatever the outcome, if it does not continue to be based notionally on qualification, the top European prize will be devalued even more.


*Should be pointed out that these clubs are not actually rich - most, if not all of them are in deep financial trouble - Barcelona are $1bn in debt. They are a bit like our banks in the financial crisis - deemed too big to fail.

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Good point. Man Utd loaded with debt, Arsenal too.

**** bag owners don’t care about the game at all, just feathering their own nests.

You know I posted last night that this would have no bearing on Hibs or Scottish football whatsoever, but thinking about it again this morning...

These 12 or 15 clubs/franchises are franchises that are used to winning (well, maybe not in Spurs case, but anyway). If they go ahead with this they're not going to want to find themselves suddenly at the bottom of whatever nonsense competition they're setting up. Someone has to come last and that needs to be someone else. But that probably won't be an issue because they are going to invite five or eight more teams in to make up the numbers, throw these teams a few quid to be down the bottom of the league, be on the wrong end of regular hammerings and just take whatever crumbs they can get that fall off the table.

For that they're going to need to find some teams that are big names and consider themselves "big clubs" but are actually fairly *****. Clubs that currently consider themselves to be big fish in a small pond and are just looking for any way out of the league they're currently in. Clubs that claim to represent a community or a cause but are actually just soulless businesses that would be delighted to take whatever few crumbs they're thrown. This might actually have a significant impact on Scottish football when it all plays out.

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Originally Posted by GloryGlory

I think UEFA will find a "compromise" with the clubs and bigger leagues that gives more CL places to them at the expense of smaller leagues' champions being excluded completely from the competition and having to play in the Europa and the Challenge league.

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Almost certainly.

As to the proposal, a guy on the radio suggested that JP Morgan have backed this and are guaranteeing them $350m each per season..............but clearly this needs to be paid for in some way (including vast amounts of interest I imagine).

I imagine that this will be some form of PPV for these matches - I really struggle with where the audience share will be for this competition at those sort of numbers tbqh.

All of which points to a compromise which shafts everyone else - result :rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by jacomo

Good point. Man Utd loaded with debt, Arsenal too.

**** bag owners don’t care about the game at all, just feathering their own nests.

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https://i.imgur.com/9hZcAEx.png

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Originally Posted by jacomo

Good point. Man Utd loaded with debt, Arsenal too.

**** bag owners don’t care about the game at all, just feathering their own nests.

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https://twitter.com/dannykellywords/...216000/photo/1

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Originally Posted by mayo hibee

You know I posted last night that this would have no bearing on Hibs or Scottish football whatsoever, but thinking about it again this morning...

These 12 or 15 clubs/franchises are franchises that are used to winning (well, maybe not in Spurs case, but anyway). If they go ahead with this they're not going to want to find themselves suddenly at the bottom of whatever nonsense competition they're setting up. Someone has to come last and that needs to be someone else. But that probably won't be an issue because they are going to invite five or eight more teams in to make up the numbers, throw these teams a few quid to be down the bottom of the league, be on the wrong end of regular hammerings and just take whatever crumbs they can get that fall off the table.

For that they're going to need to find some teams that are big names and consider themselves "big clubs" but are actually fairly *****. Clubs that currently consider themselves to be big fish in a small pond and are just looking for any way out of the league they're currently in. Clubs that claim to represent a community or a cause but are actually just soulless businesses that would be delighted to take whatever few crumbs they're thrown. This might actually have a significant impact on Scottish football when it all plays out.

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Their not gonna come last but....their all not gonna win it. Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs will become no marks and will never win it. The English clubs need to be careful because giving Real and Barca extra millions each and trying to compete with then in a league system might not be that great an idea.
As for inviting teams to play each year, plenty clubs around. Valencia, Seville, Roma, Napoli, Lazio, Porto, Benfica, Ajax, Everton to name but a few.

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Originally Posted by DH1875

So the breakaway 15 is now a breakaway 12 (no PSG, Bayern, Dortmund). What I don't get is why England get 6 teams and Italy and Spain only get 3 each.

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$

I'm not sure how this effects us as we are never gonna be part of it. Do wonder how fans of clubs like Valencia, Sevilla, Roma, Lazio, Everton, Newcastle, Leeds etc....look at it as it's the end of the dream for them.

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Originally Posted by Gatecrasher

So i have barely seen any positive comments about this, whats the difference between this and the Atlantic league as there was some support for that? To me they are both the same, money grabbing owners who don't care about the fans.

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They aren't quite the same but, as you rightly say, they are both purely to make people money.

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Originally Posted by DH1875

I'm not sure how this effects us as we are never gonna be part of it. Do wonder how fans of clubs like Valencia, Sevilla, Roma, Lazio, Everton, Newcastle, Leeds etc....look at it as it's the end of the dream for them.

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Absolutely it affects us. The aim seems to be a closed shop where the elite grab an ever bigger slice of the pie and there is no way in for the likes of us.

Any new set up will be pushed down our throats as fans are converted into consumers - and that will include heavy marketing in Edinburgh.

Where will the next generation of Hibs fans come from? It’s bad enough seeing folk walking about town in OF replica tops as it is... this would be on another level.

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Originally Posted by jacomo

Absolutely it affects us. The aim seems to be a closed shop where the elite grab an ever bigger slice of the pie and there is no way in for the likes of us.

Any new set up will be pushed down our throats as fans are converted into consumers - and that will include heavy marketing in Edinburgh.

Where will the next generation of Hibs fans come from? It’s bad enough seeing folk walking about town in OF replica tops as it is... this would be on another level.

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Early indications are that the supporters down south are dead against this though.

Marketed properly Scottish football could be presented as a real alternative to the nonsense on offer at the top table. Try and tap into the huge market that has no interest in what is being put on offer. I think this creates an opportunity for Scottish football, unfortunately I don’t have any faith in the people leading our game to see it that way.

Hypothetically speaking, if it was Hibs that was involved in all this I think I would probably start taking a much bigger interest in amateur and junior football. Same principles apply here I think.

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Originally Posted by jacomo

Absolutely it affects us. The aim seems to be a closed shop where the elite grab an ever bigger slice of the pie and there is no way in for the likes of us.

Any new set up will be pushed down our throats as fans are converted into consumers - and that will include heavy marketing in Edinburgh.

Where will the next generation of Hibs fans come from? It’s bad enough seeing folk walking about town in OF replica tops as it is... this would be on another level.

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I’m not so sure.

Kids still support Hibs in Edinburgh now. That’s with English football and Champions league football being advertised all the time.

The elite will get an even bigger slice of the pie, but it’s not a pie we ever get to taste anyway. We’ve never been at that party.

It’s all greed, but I honestly don’t thin it’ll change much for me. I’ll still watch Hibs like I always have. I’ll still watch other football on the telly.

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Originally Posted by Gatecrasher

so its still rips the main income source out of scottish football and basically kills the premier league but because the clubs can be relegated from the Atlantic league its ok?

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I haven’t read as much about the Atlantic league proposals. I’m hesitant to say whether it’s ‘ok’ or not. The Super League would operate at a whole other level and changes the whole football environment, for all competitions. As well as Hibs I also follow ligue 1 a lot and international football, I remember my first World Cup before I’d even seen Hibs play, neither of these things would survive the super league proposals. I doubt the Atlantic league would have that impact.

It it goes through, when is it due to start?

When the next financial crisis hits, watching this bank-owned ****show crumble will be utterly hilarious

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Originally Posted by Billy Whizz

It it goes through, when is it due to start?

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2023.

I will be unsubscribing from any sports channel that shows it.

The idea of the Atlantic League was to group teams from weaker leagues into a single league to try to close the gap a bit on the major European leagues and level the playing field at least a little bit. This super league thing is just the richest of the rich trying to make themselves even richer.

Regardless of personal views on the Atlantic League I'm surprised anyone is even trying to make the comparison to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Billy Whizz

It it goes through, when is it due to start?

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august

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Originally Posted by Gatecrasher

so its still rips the main income source out of scottish football and basically kills the premier league but because the clubs can be relegated from the Atlantic league its ok?

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The Atlantic league idea is an attempt by big clubs in small countries to bridge the financial gap so they can compete with clubs from the big countries.

The Super league is an attempt by big clubs in big countries to create a permanent gap to everyone else so they only have to compete with each other.

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Originally Posted by Diclonius

2023.

I will be unsubscribing from any sports channel that shows it.

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Oh really? When I read august in the statement I assumed it meant this year

This will kill domestic football in the counties involved. It’s already very difficult for clubs to compete with the richest clubs, this just makes the gap insurmountable.

This is a non starter, the money men and sponsors will pull out when they see the uproar this will cause around the football world.

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Originally Posted by easty

I’m not so sure.

Kids still support Hibs in Edinburgh now. That’s with English football and Champions league football being advertised all the time.

The elite will get an even bigger slice of the pie, but it’s not a pie we ever get to taste anyway. We’ve never been at that party.

It’s all greed, but I honestly don’t thin it’ll change much for me. I’ll still watch Hibs like I always have. I’ll still watch other football on the telly.

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Yeah I can't get too excited about hating this either. The game changed a long time ago at the top and this is just a continuation. The Champions League had become nothing like the European cup of old and was largely a closed shop with new proposals set to make that worse anyway.

It's quite interesting looking at the social media platforms of the clubs involved. Fans from the locality are near universal in their condemnation of these plans. On the other hand the extended fan bases, particularly those in Africa and the far east, seem broadly supportive and excited by the plans. They have even managed to twist this to say it makes football 'more competitive'. I don't think that's entirely unexpected, fans rooted in a community will always be more passionate about their history and heritage than someone who supports a team thousands of miles from home with no obvious connection to either the club or the community the club is situated in.

I think the clubs and the financial backers of the league will have anticipated this as well. The extended global support bases are largely driven by glory hunting. There's a reason why Real Madrid sell hundreds of millions of pound worth of merchandise worldwide and Rayo Vallecano don't. They will already have a good idea of what TV deals are going to be on offer from around the world and will have budgeted accordingly. I daresay Sky and BT will drop their moral objections and get involved in the bidding for the UK rights as and when it becomes an issue. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if this is the start of PPV football where certain games incur an additional charge over and above a subscription payment.

The objections of local fans will be challenged as of now. There will be a deluge of propoganda, emotional blackmail and hype to sell this as 'what you have always wanted and just didn't know it'. It's easy for me to sit here now and say if Hibs got involved in some kind of closed shop I would walk away and support Edinburgh City or Spartans. After a few weeks of emotive marketing talking about the Leith sunshine spreading across Europe and the world? I might feel a bit differently. I hope the fans down south and across Europe stick to their guns. Unfortunately I just don't believe the football without fans is nothing line holds true anymore at that level. With the figures being talked about the stadiums could lie empty every week with a piped in atmosphere and it wouldn't make a significant difference. They wouldn't lie empty anyway, if everyone in Liverpool boycotted then Anfield would still be packed with tourists and people there for the 'experience'. The sanitised nature of it might even appeal to people traditionally resistant to the tribal nature of football. If the league has global appeal then the people of Salford, Openshaw or Finsbury Park don't matter in the slightest. They are expendable.

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Originally Posted by hibee-boys

This is a non starter, the money men and sponsors will pull out when they see the uproar this will cause around the football world.

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i really hope you’re right but I’m doubtful