Bus drivers strike

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28-07-2019, 01:33 PM
Cataplana

The strike will inconvenience people, but we shouldn't lose sight of whose fault it actually is. If people are prepared to give up a day's wages, it looks like it is the only way they can make their point.

As customers, we should be demanding explanations from the company, and not the drivers, who are exercising their democratic right to withold their labour. So far, LRT is not covering itself in glory.
28-07-2019, 02:10 PM
Smartie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cataplana

The strike will inconvenience people, but we shouldn't lose sight of whose fault it actually is. If people are prepared to give up a day's wages, it looks like it is the only way they can make their point.

As customers, we should be demanding explanations from the company, and not the drivers, who are exercising their democratic right to withold their labour. So far, LRT is not covering itself in glory.

Whilst I agree we should be demanding explanations from the company, I think we need to know more from the drivers. All I've heard about it is what I've read on here.

Many of us who are reliant on the service to get to our work (some of us who have businesses have customers who use the service to get to our business premises) are going to be inconvenienced. As it is a service we all value, it would be good to weigh up the validity of the strike rather than just go on leaked management propaganda.
28-07-2019, 02:45 PM
HUTCHYHIBBY

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cataplana

The strike will inconvenience people, but we shouldn't lose sight of whose fault it actually is. If people are prepared to give up a day's wages, it looks like it is the only way they can make their point.

As customers, we should be demanding explanations from the company, and not the drivers, who are exercising their democratic right to withold their labour. So far, LRT is not covering itself in glory.

I've yet to speak to anyone that isn't sympathising with the drivers, good luck to them, they provide a highly efficient service.
28-07-2019, 03:22 PM
BroxburnHibee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bristolhibby

Coming up for the game on Saturday with my two boys.

A major ball ache to get from the Braids to ER, but support the drivers 100%. It does ya well to be reminded that the workers are the most important part in the system. Will just have to make other arrangements.

Taxi drivers will be making a fortune.

J

Most taxi drivers are of the opinion that it wont go ahead.
28-07-2019, 03:31 PM
Cataplana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smartie

Whilst I agree we should be demanding explanations from the company, I think we need to know more from the drivers. All I've heard about it is what I've read on here.

Many of us who are reliant on the service to get to our work (some of us who have businesses have customers who use the service to get to our business premises) are going to be inconvenienced. As it is a service we all value, it would be good to weigh up the validity of the strike rather than just go on leaked management propaganda.

Agree 100%, as consumers the buck stops with the company, not the employees.
28-07-2019, 03:34 PM
Cataplana

Quote:

Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

I've yet to speak to anyone that isn't sympathising with the drivers, good luck to them, they provide a highly efficient service.

Neither have I, but the BBC managed to find the only two people in Edinburgh who criticised them, on last night's news. As well as letting Richard Hall take the whole issue on his shoulders, "I am trying to improve the bus service", or words to that effect. Not, "we", or "the company", but "I".

The guy looks seriously out of his depth, and has probably found that running mass transit in a large city is not the same thing as making sure there are four buses a day between Campbelltown and Lochgilphead, as he did at West Coast Motors.

People who have risen too far tend to concentrate on the petty things like whether ties need to be worn in summer, instead of tackling the big issues like equipping the fleet with contactless.
28-07-2019, 04:03 PM
Just Alf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cataplana

Neither have I, but the BBC managed to find the only two people in Edinburgh who criticised them, on last night's news. As well as letting Richard Hall take the whole issue on his shoulders, "I am trying to improve the bus service", or words to that effect. Not, "we", or "the company", but "I".

The guy looks seriously out of his depth, and has probably found that running mass transit in a large city is not the same thing as making sure there are four buses a day between Campbelltown and Lochgilphead, as he did at West Coast Motors.

People who have risen too far tend to concentrate on the petty things like whether ties need to be worn in summer, instead of tackling the big issues like equipping the fleet with contactless.

Think your last paragraph totally nails it regarding this whole issue.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
28-07-2019, 04:36 PM
southsider

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Alf

Think your last paragraph totally nails it regarding this whole issue.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Have u seen his salary? £169 k. No wonder the fares are so high.
28-07-2019, 04:50 PM
HUTCHYHIBBY

Quote:

Originally Posted by southsider

Have u seen his salary? £169 k. No wonder the fares are so high.

I don't think they are.
28-07-2019, 06:18 PM
beensaidbefore

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

For example,,,,

Only? Surely not!

Of course it is, what better way to focus the minds of those around the negotiating table.

It would appear you are incorrect. It can be seen from here and other platforms as well as speaking face to face with bus users that members of the public do seem aware that there is a toxic management within the company and although there will be a massive inconvenience there is an element of sympathy and support for the drivers. That's not to say everyone is in support,,,,

How would you suggest I get from oxgangs to leith? Once upon a time there were alternatives, but those were priced out the gane by lrt a long time ago.

Walking through to Buckstone to catch the single decker coming from the borders would be a complete waste of time. They would be full long before they even got there.

Realistically I would need to walk to Princes Street and try and get on a tram, then walk from from Broughton St down to Leith.

Hope it's not raining.
28-07-2019, 06:22 PM
beensaidbefore

Quote:

Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

I've yet to speak to anyone that isn't sympathising with the drivers, good luck to them, they provide a highly efficient service.

I think people may become a bit less sympathetic if they've also got to give up a day's wage cos they can't get to work. :greengrin
28-07-2019, 07:05 PM
speedy_gonzales

Quote:

Originally Posted by beensaidbefore

How would you suggest I get from oxgangs to leith?

I'm confident if the strike goes ahead there will be a limited (but busy) service. I may be wrong but I think Airlink services are unaffected so you could jump on a 400 and either walk or utilise another bus service from Fort Kinnaird or head west, jump on a tram at Sighthill then walk down Leith Walk.

I'm not suggesting it's going to be easy but living & working within the city limits should never be impossible,,,,
28-07-2019, 07:53 PM
beensaidbefore

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

I'm confident if the strike goes ahead there will be a limited (but busy) service. I may be wrong but I think Airlink services are unaffected so you could jump on a 400 and either walk or utilise another bus service from Fort Kinnaird or head west, jump on a tram at Sighthill then walk down Leith Walk.

I'm not suggesting it's going to be easy but living & working within the city limits should never be impossible,,,,

I will need to check the Airlink bus. I thought that would have been off too. Cheers for the heads up. As you say still a pain, but better than walking.
28-07-2019, 08:00 PM
HUTCHYHIBBY

Quote:

Originally Posted by beensaidbefore

I think people may become a bit less sympathetic if they've also got to give up a day's wage cos they can't get to work. :greengrin

I'm not sure what your post means, have I only spoke to jobless people?
28-07-2019, 08:19 PM
Weegreenman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cataplana

Neither have I, but the BBC managed to find the only two people in Edinburgh who criticised them, on last night's news. As well as letting Richard Hall take the whole issue on his shoulders, "I am trying to improve the bus service", or words to that effect. Not, "we", or "the company", but "I".

The guy looks seriously out of his depth, and has probably found that running mass transit in a large city is not the same thing as making sure there are four buses a day between Campbelltown and Lochgilphead, as he did at West Coast Motors.

People who have risen too far tend to concentrate on the petty things like whether ties need to be worn in summer, instead of tackling the big issues like equipping the fleet with contactless.

From what hat I understand, he’s made a boo boo with the contactless. Apparently you can only purchase £1.70 single ticket on one card only. You can’t buy a family day ticket. Embarrassing for a city that has one of the biggest international festivals in the world.
28-07-2019, 09:25 PM
Fife-Hibee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future17

Your involvement in this thread reads like a total car crash and your position is the same as a drunk driver, swerving about all over the place unsure of what line to take.

You probably could have said something like; "there are two sides to every story, so I won't be forming an opinion until I'm satisfied I know enough of the detail" and left it at that. Unfortunately, you're so intent on arguing and noising people up that you'll find a way to try and justify a position that's contradictory to what the majority of others have said, then express that position in an aggressive/patronising/dismissive way.

Of course, when the subject matter is subjective, everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, as other posters have noted on this thread and others, you carry on this pattern of being contrary until you're caught out on something factual and someone proves you to be wrong, which you then refuse to acknowledge and simply avoid the thread for a few days.

You are the Donald Trump of Hibs.net.

You say this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future17

you're so intent on arguing and noising people up

Then you say something provoking like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future17

You are the Donald Trump of Hibs.net.

Where have I even taken a side on this thread? :confused: I'm simply offering an alternative for people to get their heads around. Nobody has to agree with it. I'm not even suggesting that I agree with it. But for the purpose of balance i'm putting it out there and I couldn't care less if you don't like it.
29-07-2019, 02:40 AM
marinello59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

So what exactly are they striking for? Who has been bullied? Because by the sounds of it, the people who were bullied (on social media) have taken action against the bullies and now the bullies are the ones going on strike? :confused:

Looks like you have clearly taken a side there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Really?

Seems like some people thought they could run off at the mouth on the world wide web and not be pulled up for it. They do realize this is 2019?

Looks like you have taken a side here as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Which is the same as any other line of work where the employees never really get much of a chance to establish much of a working relationship with their managers.

If you're an employee for a company where you're rarely ever around the vicinity of the manager and you actively stick the boot into them publicly over the internet using a social media platform that clearly identifies who you are. Then you're asking to be sacked.

I have no sympathy for anybody who is daft enough to do that.

You have definitely taken a side here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

This doesn't just apply to bus drivers. I've heard of black cab taxi drivers being reported for similar things. There are some very strict policies in place and regardless of what your personal opinion of those policies are, the workers know what the policies are and that they must be adhered to at all times.

If an employee wants to take the risk by breaking company policy because they think the policy is stupid or for whatever other reason, then they always run the risk of being fired and have to take responsibility for their own actions when it happens.

I think we can see which side you are on with this one as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Many people around the outskirts of the city only have lothian routes to rely on. The only "alternative" is forking out taxi fares. Extortionate if you're working a minimum wage job somewhere around the city centre. Let's not kid on this isn't going to be a major complication for a sizable amount of people.

Unless they get clear on what exactly it is they're trying to achieve through strike action, they're not going to build up much public sympathy.

Drivers causing disruption by their actions? Looks like you have decided which side you are on here as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Where have I even taken a side on this thread? :confused: I'm simply offering an alternative for people to get their heads around. Nobody has to agree with it. I'm not even suggesting that I agree with it. But for the purpose of balance i'm putting it out there and I couldn't care less if you don't like it.

And the answer to your question is...............................................
29-07-2019, 04:55 AM
Fife-Hibee

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinello59

Looks like you have clearly taken a side there.

Looks like you have taken a side here as well.
You have definitely taken a side here
I think we can see which side you are on with this one as well.
Drivers causing disruption by their actions? Looks like you have decided which side you are on here as well.

And the answer to your question is...............................................

Not taking sides though. My points are pretty much impartial. The drivers are being treated in a way that they would be in almost any other line of work. You can't rubbish a manager that you don't have much of an established relationship with over the internet and expect not to be pulled up for it when somebody reports that information to him/her.

I've asked repeatedly on this thread what the drivers are actually aiming to accomplish through this strike action and nobody seems to know. Despite siding with them over the issue.
29-07-2019, 06:09 AM
makaveli1875

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Not taking sides though. My points are pretty much impartial. The drivers are being treated in a way that they would be in almost any other line of work. You can't rubbish a manager that you don't have much of an established relationship with over the internet and expect not to be pulled up for it when somebody reports that information to him/her.

I've asked repeatedly on this thread what the drivers are actually aiming to accomplish through this strike action and nobody seems to know. Despite siding with them over the issue.

The drivers are trying to show the bosses that if they treat them like **** this will be the consequences, no buses on the road. Do you think theyve all went on strike over 1 incident? I thought you were the all seeing eye Fifey, you have a conspiracy theory for everything but in this case your blaming the little guys on the front line.
29-07-2019, 06:23 AM
Danderhall Hibs

Quote:

Originally Posted by makaveli1875

The drivers are trying to show the bosses that if they treat them like **** this will be the consequences, no buses on the road. Do you think theyve all went on strike over 1 incident? I thought you were the all seeing eye Fifey, you have a conspiracy theory for everything but in this case your blaming the little guys on the front line.

They’re going on a continuous strike though? So how will not being at work allow the boss(es) to show they’ve changed their ways?
29-07-2019, 07:05 AM
danhibees1875

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

I've asked repeatedly on this thread what the drivers are actually aiming to accomplish through this strike action and nobody seems to know. Despite siding with them over the issue.

I think this is one of the problems we face in the modern era, everyone expects to know everything right away.

Unless there's an LRT bus driver on .net willing to share then I don't know why this thread would provide the answers to your questions. :dunno:

It has came out that the problems go beyond money and are to do with a bullying culture. I'm sure the drivers will have communicated what they want changed to the appropriate people, there's no reason for it to be public knowledge.

Anyway, a bus strike at the start of the festivals sounds like it could be chaotic. I hope it's resolved relatively quickly and their working conditions improve to the standard they should be. The buses in Edinburgh are brilliant I think, the drivers generally do a good job operating them and from what I can see the bosses seem to be a good job making the service tick from the top.
29-07-2019, 07:26 AM
Since90+2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs

They’re going on a continuous strike though? So how will not being at work allow the boss(es) to show they’ve changed their ways?

Most bus drivers won't be in a financial position to take more than a couple of days unpaid due to striking. If they do strike on Friday I would imagine it won't last very long.
29-07-2019, 08:33 AM
Cataplana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weegreenman

From what hat I understand, he’s made a boo boo with the contactless. Apparently you can only purchase £1.70 single ticket on one card only. You can’t buy a family day ticket. Embarrassing for a city that has one of the biggest international festivals in the world.

I didn't realise that. According to the EEN, or Pravda as I prefer to call it, the system would cap your fares once you reached a daily maximum. They were trying to make out, as they always do, that it was the same as living in London.

In London, you register your card with an account, and you get a daily breakdown of how it was used. I'm not sure if family tickets can be used with the card, but I would have thought it should be possible.

The archaic system of payment on the Lothian buses is becoming something of an embarrassment, and must cause challenges during the tourist season. Time for the board to start asking the CEO what exactly he has achieved during his time here, other than pissing staff and customers off.
29-07-2019, 08:36 AM
Danderhall Hibs

Quote:

Originally Posted by danhibees1875

I think this is one of the problems we face in the modern era, everyone expects to know everything right away.

Unless there's an LRT bus driver on .net willing to share then I don't know why this thread would provide the answers to your questions. :dunno:

It has came out that the problems go beyond money and are to do with a bullying culture. I'm sure the drivers will have communicated what they want changed to the appropriate people, there's no reason for it to be public knowledge.

Anyway, a bus strike at the start of the festivals sounds like it could be chaotic. I hope it's resolved relatively quickly and their working conditions improve to the standard they should be. The buses in Edinburgh are brilliant I think, the drivers generally do a good job operating them and from what I can see the bosses seem to be a good job making the service tick from the top.

Normally “demands” are stated publicly - that way they can get the public on their side.
29-07-2019, 08:37 AM
Danderhall Hibs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Since90+2

Most bus drivers won't be in a financial position to take more than a couple of days unpaid due to striking. If they do strike on Friday I would imagine it won't last very long.

Agreed but these strikes are normally targeted for 1 day maximum disruption - these guys are just saying continuous so unless something changes (whatever it is they want) and they have another vote, they’re off until it’s sorted.
29-07-2019, 09:05 AM
McD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Not taking sides though. My points are pretty much impartial. The drivers are being treated in a way that they would be in almost any other line of work. You can't rubbish a manager that you don't have much of an established relationship with over the internet and expect not to be pulled up for it when somebody reports that information to him/her.

I've asked repeatedly on this thread what the drivers are actually aiming to accomplish through this strike action and nobody seems to know. Despite siding with them over the issue.

Your points aren’t impartial. You have repeatedly (as demonstrated by M59) adopted the position of of the management, and not once have you adopted the position of the drivers. At every turn you have questioned and criticised the actions of the drivers, and refused to accept any criticism of the management, despite multiple examples provided.
29-07-2019, 09:07 AM
danhibees1875

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs

Normally “demands” are stated publicly - that way they can get the public on their side.

To be honest, I can't remember ever paying much attention to strike action before. I remember the teachers were pretty vocal about their % pay increase. I guess that's an easier message to get across rather than a culture shift in the way upper management treat staff.

If it is common practice to publicise demands of all kinds and the drivers haven't done so and aren't interested in just more money then a resolution doesn't seem all that likely anytime soon!

Hopefully it's not raining on Friday...
29-07-2019, 09:23 AM
Danderhall Hibs

Quote:

Originally Posted by danhibees1875

To be honest, I can't remember ever paying much attention to strike action before. I remember the teachers were pretty vocal about their % pay increase. I guess that's an easier message to get across rather than a culture shift in the way upper management treat staff.

If it is common practice to publicise demands of all kinds and the drivers haven't done so and aren't interested in just more money then a resolution doesn't seem all that likely anytime soon!

Hopefully it's not raining on Friday...

That’s true - usually it’s pay or t&c (pensions etc) which is easier to debate. This one seems different but I’d still have thought they’d have a list of wants - seems their union don’t get it either as they’ve twice recommended they accept the pay increase and the members have gone against them.
29-07-2019, 10:38 AM
Hibbyradge

I'm with Fife on this.

F*** the workers.
29-07-2019, 11:12 AM
Fife-Hibee

Quote:

Originally Posted by McD

Your points aren’t impartial. You have repeatedly (as demonstrated by M59) adopted the position of of the management, and not once have you adopted the position of the drivers. At every turn you have questioned and criticised the actions of the drivers, and refused to accept any criticism of the management, despite multiple examples provided.

I'm simply adding balance. Sure, it may make me the odd one out on the thread. But I don't care. You're all quick to jump onto the "poor employee" stereotype without being able to present any real facts surrounding the situation.

I'm offering people the opportunity to consider that it may not all be a simple case of poor worker vs big evil management. I'm sure the situation is far more complicated than what is being presented here.

If you don't care about detail and just want to jump on a bandwagon, then that's your right to do so. But at least be honest about it.

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