Thoughts on Jo Swinson?

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Again, it all comes down to the right-wing politicial culture in British media. The "legs-it" controversy appeared in the Daily Mail. Who have been neither a backer of Theresa May or Nicola Sturgeon. They'll target anyone that they don't consider "right wing enough", regardless of their gender.

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So you disagree with Nicola Sturgeon, a female politician who says that they are judged differently?

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Originally Posted by marinello59

So you disagree with Nicola Sturgeon, a female politician who says that they are judged differently?

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It might come as a shock to you, but I don't agree with Nicola Sturgeon on everything. :wink:

I think the 50/50 split thing is a farce as well. People should gain jobs on merit, not on gender.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

I have had the pleasure of reading many posts by you both. Don’t always agree with you and you don’t agree with me that often, but it is usually a reasonable debate.

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I think you're maybe a tad defensive on this one MA. Not every criticism directed at females is born out of sexism, sometimes it's just simply criticism.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

It might come as a shock to you, but I don't agree with Nicola Sturgeon on everything. :wink:

I think the 50/50 split thing is a farce as well. People should gain jobs on merit, not on gender.

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But as ability is not gendered the split should statistically be 50/50 unless something else is going on.

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Originally Posted by Colr

But as ability is not gendered the split should statistically be 50/50 unless something else is going on.

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We’ve had the equal pay act since 1970 and the gender pay gap is still significant as is the lack of women in the boardrooms of our biggest companies. Yet we still have men of all ages refusing to admit that sexism is a big problem.

Well!! Jo Swinson called for a vote of no confidence which had it carried would have resulted in a GE before 31st October (today was last date this could be guaranteed)

Corbyn rejected it and then went off to speak at a rally for GE?

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Originally Posted by Colr

But as ability is not gendered the split should statistically be 50/50 unless something else is going on.

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Science and biology would disagree. Some jobs are more suited for men and others for women. Seeing less women on the construction site for example isn't down to sexism. Women are just far less likely to apply for a job laying bricks. Biology and neurology are major factors when it comes to choosing career paths.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Science and biology would disagree. Some jobs are more suited for men and others for women. Seeing less women on the construction site for example isn't down to sexism. Women are just far less likely to apply for a job laying bricks. Biology and neurology are major factors when it comes to choosing career paths.

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:rolleyes:

Are you Alex Salmond?

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Originally Posted by Tornadoes70

:rolleyes:

Are you Alex Salmond?

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No. But like Alex Salmond, I know how to pick up and read a book.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

No. But like Alex Salmond, I know how to pick up and read a book.

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Was it all a conspiracy that he's been arrested for umpteen alleged rapes and assaults?

i know you pander to conspiracy theories.

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Originally Posted by Tornadoes70

Was it all a conspiracy that he's been arrested for umpteen alleged rapes and assaults?

i know you pander to conspiracy theories.

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No. It's just the Scottish legal system doing it's job and carrying out an investigation (politically unhindered). Imagine which faces would be pulled up in court south of the border if their own system wasn't plagued with political interference and corruption.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Science and biology would disagree. Some jobs are more suited for men and others for women. Seeing less women on the construction site for example isn't down to sexism. Women are just far less likely to apply for a job laying bricks. Biology and neurology are major factors when it comes to choosing career paths.

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There's also the question of the pay gap. My company come under fire last year because there is a horrendous gap between that what the average man in the company earns compared to that what the average woman earns. The problem is that I work for an airline where most of the pilots are men and earn around €135 000 a year, cabin crew are are mostly women and there's twice as many of them than there are pilots earn around €40 000 give or take a few thousand depending on rank. Now if you average out the total pay and then divide it amongst all employees then compare the average to that what our male employees earn to that of our female employees then the guys are gonna come out on top.

Now we are trying to employ more female pilots but with only marginal success, mainly because the interest is not there. The way these gender pay statistics are calculated is warped, we need to compare apples with apples and men and women will always be interested in different occupations simply because of the differences between the two sexes. Of course when they both do the same work/job/occupation they should get equal pay, but you can't expect everyone to be paid the same when the effort/qualifications required to carry out the job are different.

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Originally Posted by Tornadoes70

Was it all a conspiracy that he's been arrested for umpteen alleged rapes and assaults?

i know you pander to conspiracy theories.

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Oh **** off, how to drag what was a decent exchange of opinion down into the gutter.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

There's also the question of the pay gap. My company come under fire last year because there is a horrendous gap between that what the average man in the company earns compared to that what the average woman earns. The problem is that I work for an airline where most of the pilots are men and earn around €135 000 a year, cabin crew are are mostly women and there's twice as many of them than there are pilots earn around €40 000 give or take a few thousand depending on rank. Now if you average out the total pay and then divide it amongst all employees then compare the average to that what our male employees earn to that of our female employees then the guys are gonna come out on top.

Now we are trying to employ more female pilots but with only marginal success, mainly because the interest is not there. The way these gender pay statistics are calculated is warped, we need to compare apples with apples and men and women will always be interested in different occupations simply because of the differences between the two sexes. Of course when they both do the same work/job/occupation they should get equal pay, but you can't expect everyone to be paid the same when the effort/qualifications required to carry out the job are different.

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Couldn't agree more. :agree:

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

That doesn’t answer my question. I never mentioned Fife Hibee, Hibrandenburg or the SNP. I asked:

“what’s your take on the comings and goings in Westminster over the last week? Is it getting harder to make a positive case for Scotland’s interest in the union? I’m talking about what is happening here and now, not ifs and buts if only Labour were electable.”

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Not sure if you missed my post Tornadoes in amongst your other replies on the thread?

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Originally Posted by G B Young

With the focus on what appears to be the looming confirmation of Boris Johnson as PM, Jo Swinson's victory in the Lib Dem leadership election has taken something of a back seat. I must say I didn't know a great deal about her, but reading through this she's got a very solid background in politics for one so relatively young:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49046446

I wonder if in the event of a general election she might fare rather well, given that Brexit is still likely to dominate the political agenda. Is it feasible she could emerge as a more likely leader of the opposition than Corbyn when you bear in mind Labour's muddled approach to Brexit and their shambolic handling of the anti-Semitism crisis?

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My oh my. Things turned a bit on this thread!

I thought I would repost the OP and hopefully it doesn’t descend into the mudslinging that took place, let alone the barely concealed chauvinism. Someone might even try and answer the OP’s final question?

My answer is yes. If Labour under Corbyn can’t go all guns for Remain then Swinson has an open goal fronting all out for Remain. She will retain Lib Dems, drag in soft Tory Remains, pull in Labour voters who are concerned about Corbyn and definitely pull in Labour voters who want to stay in the EU.

Seamas, on the slight chance you glance at .net, that’s more of the Party than voted for Jeremy. Accept it, deal with it and respect the will of the membership.

As for Swinson more generally, there is a bit of the echo chamber going on again on here. She will boost her party share and vote if she is up against Corbyn and BoJo. If she faces Yvette Cooper representing a Remain ticket then she is stuffed.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

My oh my. Things turned a bit on this thread!

I thought I would repost the OP and hopefully it doesn’t descend into the mudslinging that took place, let alone the barely concealed chauvinism. Someone might even try and answer the OP’s final question?

My answer is yes. If Labour under Corbyn can’t go all guns for Remain then Swinson has an open goal fronting all out for Remain. She will retain Lib Dems, drag in soft Tory Remains, pull in Labour voters who are concerned about Corbyn and definitely pull in Labour voters who want to stay in the EU.

Seamas, on the slight chance you glance at .net, that’s more of the Party than voted for Jeremy. Accept it, deal with it and respect the will of the membership.

As for Swinson more generally, there is a bit of the echo chamber going on again on here. She will boost her party share and vote if she is up against Corbyn and BoJo. If she faces Yvette Cooper representing a Remain ticket then she is stuffed.

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You really can't help yourself eh 😁

" The barely concealed chauvinism"

You are Michael Winner, and I claim my £10

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Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs

You really can't help yourself eh ��

" The barely concealed chauvinism"

You are Michael Winner, and I claim my £10

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Michael Winner? Really? You will have to explain.

You could also explain your #metoo comment.

I think there is a lack of class on your part, but also a lack of being able to explain your actual point.

You are welcome to explain, in your own words and thoughts, why you think Jo Swinson is a good or bad leader for the Lib Dem’s but I think all you have posted is that she has a ‘nippy voice’.

If that doesn’t sound chauvinistic then I don’t know what does. Perhaps try owning it.

You are correct, I really can’t help myself. I’m quite happy to post against, and challenge nonsense and if you are guilty in this regard or want to debate it then it’s not my fault I’m calling you out about it.

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Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs

You really can't help yourself eh 😁

" The barely concealed chauvinism"

You are Michael Winner, and I claim my £10

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And another thing.

I made tons of points in the post you quoted and you only picked up on an indirect accusation of chauvinism.

I never mentioned you specifically but you responded to that, and that alone.

Ringing true, hon?

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

Michael Winner? Really? You will have to explain.

You could also explain your #metoo comment.

I think there is a lack of class on your part, but also a lack of being able to explain your actual point.

You are welcome to explain, in your own words and thoughts, why you think Jo Swinson is a good or bad leader for the Lib Dem’s but I think all you have posted is that she has a ‘nippy voice’.

If that doesn’t sound chauvinistic then I don’t know what does. Perhaps try owning it.

You are correct, I really can’t help myself. I’m quite happy to post against, and challenge nonsense and if you are guilty in this regard or want to debate it then it’s not my fault I’m calling you out about it.

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It has nothing to do with her "nippy voice" and everything to do with her political record for anybody who actually bothers to take the time to look at it.

I would hazard a bet that the vast majority of people jumping on the Jo Swinson bandwagon are utterly oblivious to her record. Just like those who think Boris is worth voting for because he's a "good laugh".

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Science and biology would disagree. Some jobs are more suited for men and others for women. Seeing less women on the construction site for example isn't down to sexism. Women are just far less likely to apply for a job laying bricks. Biology and neurology are major factors when it comes to choosing career paths.

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You need to read more biology and neirology.

Try Testosterone Rex by Cordelia Fine. It won the Royal Society award so has has scientific approval.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

My oh my. Things turned a bit on this thread!

I thought I would repost the OP and hopefully it doesn’t descend into the mudslinging that took place, let alone the barely concealed chauvinism. Someone might even try and answer the OP’s final question?

My answer is yes. If Labour under Corbyn can’t go all guns for Remain then Swinson has an open goal fronting all out for Remain. She will retain Lib Dems, drag in soft Tory Remains, pull in Labour voters who are concerned about Corbyn and definitely pull in Labour voters who want to stay in the EU.

Seamas, on the slight chance you glance at .net, that’s more of the Party than voted for Jeremy. Accept it, deal with it and respect the will of the membership.

As for Swinson more generally, there is a bit of the echo chamber going on again on here. She will boost her party share and vote if she is up against Corbyn and BoJo. If she faces Yvette Cooper representing a Remain ticket then she is stuffed.

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Also, there’s 9% of the current vote going to the Greens. If they can work together to harness that (which they have been) they will effectively be leading in the polls with 31%. Seems to have gone under the radar a bit.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

I never mentioned you specifically but you responded to that, and that alone.

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I saw the hook and bait but if you want to catch a specific fish then you really should cast towards the fish you want.

Edit: Apologies if I lost the plot a bit last night but that troll just ruined any chance of a decent debate.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

Michael Winner? Really? You will have to explain.

You could also explain your #metoo comment.

I think there is a lack of class on your part, but also a lack of being able to explain your actual point.

You are welcome to explain, in your own words and thoughts, why you think Jo Swinson is a good or bad leader for the Lib Dem’s but I think all you have posted is that she has a ‘nippy voice’.

If that doesn’t sound chauvinistic then I don’t know what does. Perhaps try owning it.

You are correct, I really can’t help myself. I’m quite happy to post against, and challenge nonsense and if you are guilty in this regard or want to debate it then it’s not my fault I’m calling you out about it.

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I have not a clue why I mentioned Mr Winner 😁😁

We must have different perspectives as to what chauvinism is, I certainly don't think saying a woman has a nippy voice is.

The #metoo comment was because I thought you went ott over it.

As for what I think of the lady, I could make something up about her but if the truth be told I don't really know much about her, nor do I care too.

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Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs

I have not a clue why I mentioned Mr Winner 😁😁

We must have different perspectives as to what chauvinism is, I certainly don't think saying a woman has a nippy voice is.

The #metoo comment was because I thought you went ott over it.

As for what I think of the lady, I could make something up about her but if the truth be told I don't really know much about her, nor do I care too.

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I don’t think it’s being chauvinist to point out her annoying voice either. No one complained when William Hague was getting slagged for the way he talked or Jacob Rees Mogg for the way he looks. Admittedly it’s quite shallow, but that’s all it is.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

I don’t think it’s being chauvinist to point out her annoying voice either. No one complained when William Hague was getting slagged for the way he talked or Jacob Rees Mogg for the way he looks. Admittedly it’s quite shallow, but that’s all it is.

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I’m neither agreeing or disagreeing but starting your sentence with ‘Imagine being her husband’ has possibly added unintended nuance to your remark. Fair?

My god what did I miss last night?

Regarding Jo Swinson’s voting record I’m not sure how relevant that is as it may just reflect the fact that she attends Parliament conscientiously and is following the party whip.

i would prefer to judge her on the content of the Lib Dem manifesto for the forthcoming General Election. So I’m open minded.

To call her a Tory just sounds like a lazy soundbite straight out of SNP central office.

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Originally Posted by Stonewall

To call her a Tory just sounds like a lazy soundbite straight out of SNP central office.

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Or to disregard it just sounds like someone who can't be bothered to actually look at her voting record over the years. She is a tory. Her record makes that very clear. Not only is she a tory, she's more of a tory than the likes of Rory Stewart and Michael Gove.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Or to disregard it just sounds like someone who can't be bothered to actually look at her voting record over the years. She is a tory. Her record makes that very clear. Not only is she a tory, she's more of a tory than the likes of Rory Stewart and Michael Gove.

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Well Rory Stewart is clearly in the wrong party I’ll give you that. Gove though?

i was just trying to make the point that in a whip system it may not be an entirely accurate representation of her own views and that maybe the next Lib Dem manifesto will be a more accurate reflection on where she stands.

if she was a Tory why would she just not join the Conservative Party?

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Originally Posted by marinello59

I’m neither agreeing or disagreeing but starting your sentence with ‘Imagine being her husband’ has possibly added unintended nuance to your remark. Fair?

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Possibly, but it wasn’t intended to be.