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Actually have some sympathy for the Scottish Government over this, although I still believe minimum pricing is not the answer, as people with addiction will still purchase regardlessly. I cannot see any other alternative to reduce alcohol related illnesses. Damned if you do Damned if you don’t.
Alcohol specific deaths were up 17% last year. I'm all for them doing something but only if it works. Alcoholics aren't going to stop because it's a bit dearer, that's just fn daft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Addiction is a medical problem and needs treated as such
I'm guessing, but isn't the minimum price aimed at discouraging people who are not yet alcoholics in an attempt to reduce alcoholism rather than those who are already addicted?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
It's actually pretty good for the Scottish distilling and brewing industry as well. If the price between a bottle of beer, whisky or whatever and supermarket own label is 100% then a lot of people will just buy the cheaper stuff. If it's 30-50%, more people will go for the smaller company who produces a higher quality product.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Defo has its benefits.
I don't think alcoholism works like that. Your not not going to have the illness because the price. People will still become one because alcohol is everywhereQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
To an extent. But sadly most people get their drink from supermarkets. Most in their are from larger companies, they have also pushed up the price of premium brands. Supermarkets are definitely the biggest winnerQuote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
Yes, I think that's right. It only really affects very strong and/or (what would be) very cheap drink.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
eg. 70cl 40% spirit MUP is £14
75cl 14% wine MUP is £5.25
50cl 5% beer MUP is £1.25
You'd struggle to find much you could describe as pleasurable to drink below those prices, imo.
Last year's Newcastle Uni survey found an overall drop of 8% alcohol consumption in Scotland. This new report shows it's not really making much difference to alcoholics but surely the overall drop in a country with widespread alcohol problems is a good thing?
Entirely anecdotally, I think my kids (early 20s) and their friends have a healthier attitude to alcohol than I and mine did at the same age. Whether that's real and if MUP has anything to do with it, I don't know.
MUP would have been much better as a tax, btw, but beyond the powers of our region.
Is Scotland not allowed to raise tax on alcohol that's brutal.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Do you know how alcoholism works?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
As much as most I suppose. Have a close relative blighted by the horrible disease. Its a medical condition and only medical help can prevent it. I'm all for anything that works to stop Scotlands alcohol crisis. It would be banned if it was introduced to the world now. We pretend to ourselves it can be classy with fine wines and real ales. I'm glad scot gov sees it for what it isQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Movement is more towards less prohibition rather than more. For most substances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
I’m against prohibition but minimum pricing does seemed to have worked and the biggest criticism seems to be that they have not raised the minimum price since it was first planned over ten years ago.
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It shouldn't be banned but alcohol should be seen for what it is. Its much more harmful to you and others than most drugsQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Saw this chart. Shows the unbelievable harm to others alcohol causes per 100k, compared to other drugs
Attachment 25920
You think minimum pricing does work, Universities of Sheffield and Newcastle (Aus) have completed extensive research into Scottish alcohol minimum pricing. Both independantly published the same results...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
There is no benefit whatsoever to minimum alcohol pricing. Drinkers continue to drink but do not eat or heat their homes instead. Alcohol sales remain constant but general heath and welfare standards dropped substantially
I tip my hat at the Government for a good try to improve health and I do not have the answer.. but this was no success
https://arc-nenc.nihr.ac.uk/news/mup-50p-impact-study/Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57293223.amp
8% drop in alcohol consumption is surely having a beneficial effect on the nations health?
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But this was not the findings of the Sheffield study:Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61710564Quote:
The study, by the University of Sheffield, the University of Newcastle (Australia) and Figure 8 Consultancy Services, looked at the "hard to reach" population of people who drank alcohol at harmful levels, including those dependent on alcohol and those accessing treatment services.
So, regardless how tempting it is to make sweeping generalisations about the effectiveness of a particular SG policy, this study released today should not be used to support those sweeping statements. IMO.
Not if you need to catch a ferry it's not! :grr:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Over the last few years I've seen more youngsters in pubs having soft drinks when out with friends, some at my work seem happy to go somewhere for a coffee or 2 rather than go to the pub.
Don't think minimum pricing will ever stop me carrying on drinking but in my unscientific view maybe a few folks don't get into it in the 1st place.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61679080Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Bigger scandal than the ferries but never gets a mention on BBC Scotland news? Or GMS on Radio Scotland? Or the Nine?
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£2.5 billion spent so far with nothing operational delivered and they're considering scrapping it! JeezQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Alcoholism is an addiction that starts with a habit, if you can discourage people becoming habitual drinkers then you can stop them becoming alcoholics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
The MoD negotiated a fixed price contract for the delivery of the vehicles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Obviously something the Scottish Government never considered when ordering their ferries.
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Kids today are definitely more switched on to the pitfalls of addiction than my generation. Education and pricing young kids out of the market will definitely have a positive effect going forward.
The idea that the policy was going to have substantial positive effects within a few years is nonsense IMO. This was always, like most social issues, going to take a generation to work its way through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Continued review and adjustment are necessary, of course, but the notion that the scheme has failed or should be binned is short-sighted and dangerous.
But the habit hasn't gone away. Im not sure why people are saying it dropped by 8% it was 2%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
You could say alcohol sales are very much flat if a little down since 2013. There was a really big drop from 2009 to 2013 not sure why. That certainly made a difference. Look at the graph here
Attachment 25921
The report often reported says it worked because Scotland fell faster than North East England by 8% in one year, in purchases in 35,000 homes. Its a comparison against one region in one year. It says the biggest drops were in houses who bought the most alcohol. Although the study out yesterday said the opposite. That can only be but down to its too close to register
Look at the trends and its flat, although it actually rose during covid.
England has been pretty flat for 10 years and bellow Scotland. Statistically insignificant falls and rises of a few percent.
So Scotland had a big fall in 2009 then stagnated really, although deaths have been creeping up
Kind of like New Zealand's health policy, banning purchasing cigarettes for anyone born after 2008, and reducing the amount of shops that can sell cigarettes to discourage others. Will take time, but the benefits and lives saved over time will be there for all too see. Would love to see that happen here.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Fixed price for delivering nothing costing billions sounds a good deal right enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Ahem!!!
https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60837254.amp?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKA FQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=1654 6344030152&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com
They’ve spent £3bn and have no vehicles.[emoji23]Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
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Not only do we have nothing, we also have 310 injured service men and women thanks to the project.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby