Dunfermline Statement
http://www.dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=Ch...ement&ID=10114
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Dunfermline Statement
http://www.dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=Ch...ement&ID=10114
What lucrative deals have Celtic made that aren't in the normal course of business?Quote:
Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt
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The 'let's look forward, not back' mantra is very wearing. Nevertheless I'm going to try it out the next time I get a tradesman's bill in for some work done. "Let's forget all about the work you did for me last month and instead look forward to the next job you're going to do for me." That should work out fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betty Boop
Hmmm, it's almost like it's a stratetgy agreed amongst a group of people to show some united front against us stupid peasants.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
Just what exactly do The Rangers have over these spineless weasels running our game/clubs?
I expect the Dempster/Petrie script to be similar.
I suspect that it's a wee bit more cynical than that and there may be some quite fearful skeletons in the closet that none of them want becoming visible. Maybe that's the armageddon that Doncaster/Regan were fearful of in 2012.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
Only because Vlad's still to be caught - he will some day and when he is, it'll be fun !. The 'Decadent west' always has an allure too strong for these old 'Cold-war submariners' and it's a nap Vlad will be only too willing to spill the beans as part of a deal !Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I quite like the Dunfermline statement.
There appears to be an acknowledgement that their club was badly run, that they shouldn't have done what they had done and that they aren't in a position to point the finger at anyone.
The common features of the clubs who have indulged in the financial doping over the past couple of decades have been a lack of remorse, total delusion, an unwillingness to face up to their crimes and the consequences for the taxpayers/ small businesses/ Lithuanian pensioners/ other football teams/ charities that they happened to stiff along the way.
The fight needs to be led by the clubs who have kept their houses in order and suffered most at the hands of the cheats. Ourselves, Celtic, St Johnstone and all the other clubs that have never seen a creditor or employee go unpaid should carry the fight.
It would be entirely hypocritical for anyone at Dunfermline, Hearts, Dundee, Motherwell, Gretna, Livingston, Airdrie or any other team I might have forgotten to be getting on their high horses over the Rangers affair, and would easily batted off by the Sevconians with a (not unreasonable) shower of whataboutery.
Dunfermline were perfectly entitled to respond to heavy speculation, which is seriously calling into question the integrity of their club in this way.
:tin hat:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
:agree:
The Dunfy chairman sets exactly the right tone - contrition and determination to get their own house in order.
This is a can of worms. It is for, primarily, the SFA to show leadership and ask how it is that a club can cheat for a decade and not get punished.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
Agree with all that, by highlighting what Dunfy historically did as clearly bringing the game into disrepute he's basically saying the Rangers have also done similar :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
Yup. If Dunfermline had a go at Rangers, there would be whataboutery in full cry. Any call for title-stripping would have been met by a call for all of DAFC's results whilst insolvent to be scrubbed... and, while we're at it, HMFC, Dundee, etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Alf
And, in the midst of all of that, the real issues would be missed.
Are Hibs still planning to release a statement Traceyhibs? Understand we might have wanted to get yesterday's game out the way but this is dragging on a bit.
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Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Yes we agreed a statement would be made.
Not sure what the delay is but will find out and come back to you.
Thanks
Tracey
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Cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by traceyhibs
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Waiting to see if the petition for a replay succeeds? :dunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by traceyhibs
Hopefully, it's because it reflects the views of the supporters and would have been inflammatory prior to the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by traceyhibs
Appeasement doesn't work. History has shown that it only leads to liberty taking.
dont want this being lost in the current smoke screen being put up by the huns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hackett
It's fair to say we are being very patient. [emoji3] C'mon Hibs, time to do the right thing even if it's not the easy thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siralbertkidd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
:agree:
Last weekend proved that these ****bags have no scruples.
Let's do them!
Wonder what the delay is
JJ is stating that Paul Brennan reported yesterday that the SPFL have requested an inquiry into how the game is being run. Could this be why we are keeping our powder dry?
Wasn't that what they asked for in their statement a couple of weeks ago which the SFA are completely ignoring?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoboHarry
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I think Paul Brennan is reporting that the Professional Game Board met yesterday to discuss the request. He also mentions that the press walked out en-masse from Murray Park as they were being filmed. I have no idea if this is true or not but it's very sinister if it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I think the press thing is true as the Daily record ran with it yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoboHarry
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...n-10982768.amp
Haven't heard anything about PGB.
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I hardly think Keith Jackson needs to worry about being accused of asking anyone at The Rangers anything too difficult.
He did something wrong - he is banned from Murray Park and Ibrox.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilla Black
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I quite enjoyed this.
No love lost between Jackson and Sevco. Good stuff.
Wow! Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Raging paranoia and attempted intimidation coming from within ipox now. Is the Big Hoose of Cards beginning to wobble a wee bit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
It genuinely baffles me what hold Fat Jim Traynor has over Sevco. God only knows why they keep him on......
http://www.thecsa.co.uk/viewtopic.ph...cbb63083217fa1
-------------
I and Association President John Andrews met with Neil Doncaster and Rod McKenzie on Monday night. The reason for the meeting which incidentally was at the request of Mr Doncaster, was for them to explain their position with regards to the Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) Inquiry.
From the outset they both made it clear that they thought that the SPL did everything by the book and that they had no further part to play in accordance with the advice they got from a Senior Counsel.
They also stated that they, the SPFL, were happy to have an Independent Review of Scottish Football as stated about three weeks ago after they elected their new Board. The problem with that is, no Independent Review is worth having unless it also agreed by the SFA, and so far Mr Regan and his cronies have not agreed to a Review.
Mr Doncaster made it very clear that the decision taken by LNS cannot be revisited, the decision to fine Sevco £250,000 is final. Mr McKenzie stressed that all the information held by the SPL was put before LNS, which included the proof of about 51 side letters. But what they cannot answer is, did the SFA act honestly with regards to LNS.
Mr Doncaster also agreed with us that the Five Way Agreement (FWA) was a barrier to Title stripping. That is the FWA that no-one outside if the signatories has actually seen. McKenzie and Doncaster actually admitted that in one of the early drafts of the agreement Title Stripping was one of the avenues that could be used as punishment to Sevco, not surprisingly Green, and apparently more so McCoist strongly opposed that route, so that clause was taken out.
That’s akin to a High Court Judge telling a convicted criminal that he could face twenty years in jail and the criminal saying I’m not having that. So the Judge says, well ok what about a fine of £250? That will be fine (excuse the pun) your honour.
You have to wonder, if the FWA was good for Scottish Football as a whole, why has it not been made public? According to McKenzie the five signatories would have to agree to that, and he said that wouldn’t happen, but he never told us just exactly who would be opposed to going public, I think they would all oppose it to protect themselves.
Interestingly the SPFL Board backed the call for an Independent Review as proposed by Peter Lawwell at Celtic Football Club, but not one club came out publically and supported Peter Lawwell before the Board went public, which was about three weeks after Peter’s statement.
McKenzie said that club chairmen were backing Celtic, but not in public. I think that proves the point the Bullying and Intimidation by the Sevco Support is actually working, I also think the comments from Ann Budge and Stewart Milne prove that too.
So where do we go from here? Well we’re not beaten yet. We have to force the SFA to back the Independent Review. The only way that can be done is by supporters putting pressure on their own clubs to call for it.
Doncaster claims that the SPFL do not have the power within their rules to strip titles, but the SFA do have that power. So honest supporters throughout the whole of Scottish Football must stand up to the Bullies and Intimidators and force action from your own club’s. This is not a Celtic v Rangers issue, this is Honest and Integrity v Bullies and Intimidators issue. Football has to win, but it can only win if the honest decent supporters unite to make it happen.
---------------
Time for Hibs to stand up and be counted. This silence should not be what this club is about.
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I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I don't think this issue will ever be fully exorcised and Scottish football moved on from it until there is action taken by the authorities in some form or other of either stripping the titles or putting an asterisk and explanation against the titles.
They (Regan, Nimmo Smith etc) have taken us the ordinary football fans for mugs with the conspiracy to sweep this whole charade under the carpet.
Its time to cleanse the situation by declaring they titles null and void and publicly apologising to us the fans for the conspiracy to deceive.
Then we can all move forward in unison for the good of the game without the stink of the conspiracy.
From Rangers tax case blogger-
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f9b23f9fd0.jpg
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This wee bit of info is reported in todays Scottish Daily Mail (paper) page 77 at the end of IRN-BRU CUP ROUND-UP,
"Meanwhile, the SPFL have opened disciplinary proceedings against Albion Rovers for fielding an inelegible player in their Irn-Bru cup victory over Spartans on Tuesday. Liam McGuigan was on the bench as Rovers won 5-4 in a penalty shoot out after a goalless 120 minutes at Cliftonhill. Both teams will be entered into in todays draw, pending the outcome of the proceedings."
Any predictions on how the SPFL are going to spin this one?
Especially as Spartans were kicked out of the Scottish Cup for some stupid error, and have a vested interest, and a precedent has been set regarding SEVCOS "imperfect but legible" registrations of players over countless years. I hope this gets very messy.
Spartans were dealt with the SFA, but rules are rules.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/15672375
GGTTH
Scottish Cup Winners 2016
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/...ineligible-pl/
Well they docked Dundee United 3 points for fielding 2 ineligible youth players.
They enforce the rules , except when Sevco is concerned.
They being us. The SFA are a membership organisation and our chairman is a Vice President. Hibs appear quite happy to allow this system to carry on where one club is treated differently to all the others. Our silence is embarrassing.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
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It was the SPFL that docked the points not the SFA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Same applies though. Both are just the clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
It's the SFA that is in charge of player registrations though and they have ultimate responsibility for the governance of the game in Scotland. If they wanted to make sure that one club was not being advantaged over all others they could have stepped in at any time. I'd like to know why Hibs think this is ok?
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The whole thing stinks of cover up and mendacity by the Scottish footballing authorities along with the establishment figure nimmo smith. I hope a judicial review is forthcoming to open up the can of worms. Fairness is the overarching quality required in sport and when one club is set above others by the authorities it becomes rigged. It requires cleansing.
We really as a support should be making demands on Petrie to explain his role in the five way agreement. It stinks that he is complicit in this whitewash whilst some people still think he is the author of 'sporting integrity'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Fan reps....over to you.
It's funny that this is the only area where the club appear to be failing just now and it happens to be Petrie's responsibility. Probably just a coincidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
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I believe unequivocally that Sevco are holding something over everyone - perhaps something that could land some to criminal charges? How else could outsiders like Regan, Doncaster and now Budge be silenced so quickly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I think historic is probably the correct word.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Any word on the statement the Hibs board agreed to release at the last board meeting Traceyhibs?
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I think the position at the yams is one that could be easily explained by the can of worms that would be opened up by their own dirty laundry being aired. How were a club like the yams ever able to get into a position of owing 30 odd million squid over many years without being wound up before the criminal Romanov took over is beyond me. They should have been put into administration or liquidated long before the crook took over.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoboHarry
Regan and Doncaster were probably bullied into succumbing to the orders of the huns that occupy high places. The huns and to a lesser extent the yams are not known as establishment clubs for nothing.
Perhaps but that could easily be brushed away by blaming Mad Vlad for everything - not the case with Sevco - the main players are all still around.....Quote:
Originally Posted by lgnsh_070362
Fair points indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoboHarry
Some might say Vlad was ushered in to create the scenario he did with the events having been foreseen beforehand. Just like the continuity fog that was created around oldco/newco. Best laid plans and all that.
Its a jungle out there with some of the best brains in the country used for highly dubious and mendacious purposes.
Yes and the silence is not going to make this go away.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Yet another day passes......Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyhorse
I think the manager has taken care of replying himself so the club probably sees no need to step in. Media storm in a tea cup.....part 2 maybe Saturday when the Yams go calling.........
They're referring to Hibs statement in regards to historical cheating and title strippingQuote:
Originally Posted by euro Hibby
ok my mistake .......thanks ! I have every faith they will get around to it........
And what if you don't like the statement they put out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I'd rather they concentrated on getting it right on the pitch for us rather than getting distracted by fans demands to give Sevco another good kicking.
:aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by euro Hibby
:top marksWe gave them a good kicking last week and in the Scottish Cup Final. There's still plenty karma to come for them! Statement or no statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
I don't think we will like it! However, we live in an environment where people can retrospectively claim back finances from banks due to mis-selling of PPI etc therefore, all those fans who put money into season tickets to support their respective cubs, should or could, claim back the money again through mis-selling of this particular rigged system.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
No matter what, this isn't going away! Thousands of fans invested thousand of pounds - in good faith - over the term of the Rangers cheating! They have every right to demand justice or receive compensation for nefarious circumstance/means.
It has absolutely zero to do with Sevco.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
It's about us standing up for good governance in Scottish football. It won't matter how much we concentrate on putting a good team on the park if we still end up also rans due to other teams running unsustainable business models taking pipping us to lucrative European places and cup wins.
Bad enough it happened once but shame on us if we let it happen again. And that is exactly what Sevco are doing right now.
In my opinion Hibs silence on this is very poor.
We haven't heard back from Traceyhibs for a few days now so no idea what's happening?
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If it has nothing to do with Sevco then a simple statement saying the club will be helping to ensure that the rules are rigid enough to prevent this happening again should be sufficient then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
The rules as they stand are not rigid enough to prevent it happening again and therefor we need to know exactly what happened previously to make the necessary changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
No rules regarding player registrations were changed since LNS, so Sevco (or any other team) now know that a fine is all that awaits them if they decide to run a dual contract scheme again. We need to get to the bottom of why the SFA feels the need to only enforce its own rules against other clubs but not Rangers. We can't do any of that until we know exactly what went on.
Sevco this season are spending far more than they are making. If they pip us to European footy and maybe a cup and then go into admin next season, what are we to do? Just concentrate on getting our own team again for the next season? It's like being the clean rider at the back of the peloton. You get to feel a little bit smug but nobody else in the world gives a **** or even knows who you are. Is that all we want for Hibs?
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No because nothing has changed or will change to make such a statement believable. The SFA are still favouring Rangers (FFP regs) and the people responsible for the mess are still in position.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
I'm not expecting to like what I hear either, but at least I'll know where we stand and I can decide whether I want to continue to watch a competition where I can't trust what I'm watching.
I'm sick to death of it too, but it doesn't mean to say that the truth should not be brought out and acknowledged. Then we can move on.
any reason given for delay Tracey?Quote:
Originally Posted by traceyhibs
Whats Campbell Ogilvie doing these days? Is self sufficient Southern still at Dundee United?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoboHarry
Ogilvie works as a matchday delegate for UEFA now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser1962
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Tracey been silent for a week now as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siralbertkidd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I presume because she's been told there's an announcement to be made, but she's not party to the details, so no point posting anything she knows nothing about.
This is soley about Petrie, Dempster, et al, and whether they think it's worth the bother rocking the boat. IMO, there will either be NO announcement, or it'll be something bland about 'time to move on'.
As it was decided at board level to release a statement and a time scale was set then it's surprising that the management of the club have not done what was agreed at board level. It's also a bit surprising that a member of the board does not know why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
I'm not sure how these things work though so happy to wait and see what's going on.
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https://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com...ents-at-ibrox/
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They rightly highlight serious question marks over potential tapping up of players as per the payments made to Souness and Smith. However I suspect Andrew Dickson like the rest of the hired staff was merely doing the job expected of him by the puppet masters. David Murray was the overall puppet master and its he who should be facing investigations into any potential wrongdoing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
AndrewDickson was at the very heart of the EBT scheme and was central to the concealment from the SFA. That he now works for the SFA is a disgrace and is one of the reason they won't investigate. He should be banned from football for life.Quote:
Originally Posted by lgnsh_070362
After the war they didn't just let all the camp commandants off because it was Hitler that was the real bad egg.
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Still nothing from Traceyhibs?
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Why don't you send Tracey a message? Do you seriously think she has time to respond to your every question?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Give it a break man.
It was Tracey that said she would come back here with the answer as to why the delay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_JMcGinn
How many have I asked her? Strange reply. If you had been following the thread you would know that Tracey had said she would get back to us as she did not know what the hold up was with the statement the board had agreed to release.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_JMcGinn
No need to be so aggressive.
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Fans rep mate, on a subject like this it certainly goes with the territory, was on the go before during and after the election. An expectation was set and I think the guy is reasonably asking where the delivery is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_JMcGinn
For what it's worth I think Tracey is hamstrung by whatever reason the board excluding the reps has decided to delay.
Sorry if you took my post as aggressive, I just think you're being a bit unfair on Tracey here when there are more senior members on the board you could ask.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I have written 3 personal emails to Leann about various subjects and had an answer on each occasion, I'm sure you would too if you were to ask her.
I'm confident the board are doing everything in Hibs best interest surrounding the matter and making a statement for the sake of it would serve no purpose.
I don't know if you have noticed but it's only a handful of posters who seem to care about this subject and in no way when you keep using the term WE are you speaking on behalf of anything like the majority of Hibs supporters.
Lucky you. When I wrote to Hibs on this issue, I never even got a courtesy reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_JMcGinn
I'm not being unfair on Tracey at all. She is that fans rep on the board and had promised to get back to us on this issue. I'm sure she will. It's you who is suggesting she doesn't have enough time to do the job.
As for how many fans care, maybe it is just a minority interest. Does that make it any less worthwhile? Are the interests of all minorities to be ignored?
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that's why there is only 1295 pages? There are more than a few and I'd guess the majority of Hibs fans want this dealt with asap and see justice done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_JMcGinn
Did you write to leann personally? I think she was quoted as saying she would always reply to any email, and she most certainly did to mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Tracey is the fans rep but I'm sure she also has a life of her own and the job as a fans rep is not a 24/7 one, if she said she would get back to you I'm sure she will.
I still think you're better off directing these questions to more senior board members though.
You do seem to get on the reps back quite a bit, I understand keeping them on their toes due to lack of communication with previous reps etc, but I'm sure once she has the info, then she will post it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Then your guess would be wrong Mr. Smith, read back and you will see the same posters repeatedly, with I suspect a few not so undercover celtic fans thrown in along the way with a low-post-count.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmith
Don't think so. I've followed this from the outset and clearly folk are upset by the cheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_JMcGinn
I think you might be confusing me with someone else? This is the only question I've asked of the reps. I briefly spoke to Amit about this same issue but that's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mango Man
I understand that they are not full time but this is a fairly big issue and as the rest of the club is being run pretty well just now then I don't think it's too much to ask for some feedback on this?
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What would be the point of having fans reps on the board if we have to go to Leeann anytime we want to know what's going on? I'm not really following the logic of that? That would just undermine the position of the fans reps. I don't want to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_JMcGinn
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Apologies if it isn't yourself I am thinking about, I thought I had seen you posting a few previous posts in the past regarding reps and their communication, memory is rather hazy though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;5149376]How many have I asked her? Strange reply. If you had been following the thread you would know that Tracey had said she would get back to us as she did not know what the hold up was with the statement the board had agreed to release.
No need to be so aggressive.
You asked a question which was really a statement, " no answer from Tracey Hibs?" I'm also keen to know where we stand on the issue but as others have said posting rhetorical questions on here is unlikely to provide that answer. I agree a Fans' rep has responsibilities but this is a historic issue which I think only more seasoned members of our Board can answer.
[QUOTE=brog;5149541]I know Tracey checks the thread regularly so was just posting in case she had forgotten about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
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Fans reps are fans reps, they take the rough with the smooth. At least Tracey has done what she said she'd do, and come on here and other various web sites and give us updates on whats happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mango Man
The other rep promised he'd be more media friendly, but I have not seen much of this and Tracey seems to be the one left to take all the flack.
The board don't want to make a statement and hope it all blows over. Cowards.
Don't think he'll be back till election time :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
I think they will but it will be after the SFA have dealt with Lennon.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibee_nation
Just because people don't post on this thread, doesn't mean they don't want action taken against cheating and preventative measures put in place to stop cheating. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who has very rarely posted here (if at all) who reads the thread and cares about the Scottish game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_JMcGinn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_JMcGinn
he's certainly not speaking on YOUR behalf, eh Gail
keep up the good work ozyhibby, hopefully the vile hun bigots get those stolen leagues taken off of them :)
For what?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlex
Ibrox giruy gesture. Mixu was dealt with for similar. I'll be surprised if Lennon wont be too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hackett
As far as I know, there's been no letter of complaint from the compliance officer, which usually arrives within a couple of days. They'd also look a bit silly disciplining him for something the police have looked at and dismissed. I think we've heard the last of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlex
I think you will find that most of us want hese *******s dealt with properly,but not all of us feel the need to post regularly on this thread due to the legal nature of the cases, I for one cant get my head round alot of it but doesnt mean I dont want justice for Scottish fitba, or commas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_JMcGinn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_JMcGinn
Suspect it is you, who are in a minority on this issue.
You may well be correct but just because he did nothing illegal doesn't mean he hasn't done something that contravenes football governance. Bringing the game into disrepute springs to mind. He may be off the hook as there were mitigating circumstances that the SFA might not want to rake over for their own selfish reasons. I would think that football would be in a worse state however if opposition managers wee allowed on a weekly basis give opposition fans a Giryu gesture. Like I said I'd be surprised if he isn't dealt with. I don't think Hibs would make any statements prior to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hackett
They said on Sportsound at the weekend that he will probably be cited for it. The delay was because the compliance officer was busy last week with all the appealsQuote:
Originally Posted by greenlex
Hit the nail right on the head. They would be risking the whole sectarian question being back on the front pages. Not going to happen imoQuote:
Originally Posted by greenlex
Possibly Billy. Even allowing for that, I think tomorrow would have to be a reasonable limit for something to be said. Appeals were dealt with on ThursdayQuote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
I agree 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hackett