Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

If Newco does get voted to play in SPL would dundee not have grounds for complaint?

My reasoning is that if RFC are liquidated and it looks like this is going to happen then surely there is now a vacant spot in the SPL. By rights this spot should be available to dundee.

If a Newco then buy the Rangers assets they have no more right to a position in the league than any highland or junior club who might want to joint the SFL. Or indeed if had the money to buy a stadium or build one i could now apply to join the league on the same footing as this newco company.

Technically Newco have no fan base, no history and no inherrant right to play in the SFL never mind given straight access to the SPL.

In my opinion the only way for any new club to play in the SPL is via promotion and every team in any division should be able to complain about this as they all have more right to be there than a Newco.

Im really hoping that there is a no vote as i have already promised my grandson a season ticket. It will break his heart but i will not be able to go back if this mockery of our league system is allowed to go through.

STV tonight 10.30 The rangers Downfall

A must watch

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Originally Posted by Brando7

STV tonight 10.30 The rangers Downfall

A must watch

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No offence Brando but I very much doubt it. More likely to be a very soft sympathetic look at the 'poor suffering Rangers fans' .

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

Should the vote be no it doesn't give Dundee any time to consider their budget for a season in the SPL either does it.

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What about having the fixtures as they are - with RFC included and an assumption they will carry on. TRFC get a no vote or kicked out for double contracts or whatever, leaving an 11 team league. No relegation this seaon (not ideal) and 2 come up from SFL1. No room for a new club in SFL3, but then that's TRFCs problem.

(Not going to happen unfortunately).

Please please please on the firs home game of next season no matter the opponent can we have a mass
HAHA HAHA sing along to hullo hullo

Are they dead yet?

As I see it;

D&P are their usual bullish selve,s claiming the deal will go ahead in a couple of days. I'd be very surprised if that happens, we've yet to see the colour of Green's money.

The Newco will apply to join the SPL. That will take 2 weeks for the meeting to be arranged.

The Oldco will be needed for the Newco to get the 8 votes required for SPL membership. I don't see this as being as straight forward as the weegdia are making out, I'm sure some of the Chairmen will see this differently.

Transfer embargoes are/will be still in place. Green's investors won't like this, nor the fact that players are able to leave if they wish.

There is still the little matter of the 3 year (mimimum) Euro ban and the double contract investigations. Green's investors won't like this.

Getting accepted into the SPL won't be easy. As I said yesterday, the Chairmen can't/won't accept a Newco application without the deal having been completed and the main investors known and Green will have difficulty finding investors with so many question marks hanging over the Huns.


Be patient brothers! This still has a long way to run, and the good guys will win in the end!

:hnet:

:cb

Beeb article on who may vote for what > http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18422397

The important bit:

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Hibernian: Rod Petrie is the SPL chairman who has made the strongest comments against a 'newco' Rangers being granted admission, saying: "Integrity is beyond purchase. It's not a question of any sum of money in return for that integrity.
"It's important to us that the integrity of the competition that we take part is maintained to the highest standards."
"It's important that all clubs can have a place within football provided they have have earned it in a sporting sense and have abided by the rules," added Petrie.

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So if the Oldco still exists when the season starts, what happens next? Can the registration be taken from the oldco and given to the newco and a vote taken on where they start? What happens with the punishments? Will the oldco just be left to die and all focus will be on the newco?

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Originally Posted by hibbyfrankie

If Newco does get voted to play in SPL would dundee not have grounds for complaint?

My reasoning is that if RFC are liquidated and it looks like this is going to happen then surely there is now a vacant spot in the SPL. By rights this spot should be available to dundee.

If a Newco then buy the Rangers assets they have no more right to a position in the league than any highland or junior club who might want to joint the SFL. Or indeed if had the money to buy a stadium or build one i could now apply to join the league on the same footing as this newco company.

Technically Newco have no fan base, no history and no inherrant right to play in the SFL never mind given straight access to the SPL.

In my opinion the only way for any new club to play in the SPL is via promotion and every team in any division should be able to complain about this as they all have more right to be there than a Newco.

Im really hoping that there is a no vote as i have already promised my grandson a season ticket. It will break his heart but i will not be able to go back if this mockery of our league system is allowed to go through.

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Well no, transfers of the share are allowed as it's a membership based league.

Dundee only have a right when invited to join.

The oldco will still be around and would make the proposal to transfer their share to newco before any liquidation takes place.

If a liquidation took place and there was no newco there then Dundee would get their inviatation. If the SPL vote no to the transfer then Dundee will get the invitation.

What a fricking mess...all caused by Rangers.

If the SFA/SPL had any baws at all they would say that it is clear at this point there is far too many uncertainties to even contemplate scheduling Rangers being active in the top flight next season..they are after all now certain to be liquidated (why it's going to take another 6 weeks I have no idea) so are certain not to be able to fulfil their fixtures next year.

The absolutely clear and unambiguous decision to take to protect the inegrity of the SPL next year is to promote Dundee now.

Rangers will then have to re-form and re-apply to the SFL as per the SFL's schedule and rules. These are pretty clear as they have do this quite frequently. Of course other teams could also apply and be considered on merit.


None of the above is 'unfair' on Rangers and all of the above could be clarified within a few days. The future of Scotland’s top flight of football would be clarified and Rangers would have a clear route to follow (follow).


The fact this has not happened is ONLY because they are Rangers, part of the Old Firm...this in itself shows the institutionalised bias inherent within the Scottish game and it is this point that should be the main focus of the media and fans alike...if the game is ever to progress the step change has to happen now. Sadly this seems to be the last thing anyone is talking about and the last thing that is likely to happen.

One question I am unclear on as regards this SPL vote on a newco.

As I see it, there is no need for a vote until oldco officially become liquidated and therefore no longer exist, until that officially happens we still have ALL present clubs in the SPL.

Once oldco are liquidated we are then a club short in the SPL and need a vote.

Question - How can a club that has been liquidated and doesn't exist, have a vote on ANYTHING? they simply won't exist. If they do exist, there's no need for a vote.

It seems to me that this overlap between Oldco and Newco has the potential to cause massive issues. I can't help but feel this has been manufactured by D+P to somehow keep Rangers alive. Why is it taking so long to liquidate?

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

It seems to me that this overlap between Oldco and Newco has the potential to cause massive issues. I can't help but feel this has been manufactured by D+P to somehow keep Rangers alive. Why is it taking so long to liquidate?

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You ever tried buying a house in under 6 weeks? :greengrin

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Originally Posted by MB62

One question I am unclear on as regards this SPL vote on a newco.

As I see it, there is no need for a vote until oldco officially become liquidated and therefore no longer exist, until that officially happens we still have ALL present clubs in the SPL.

Once oldco are liquidated we are then a club short in the SPL and need a vote.

Question - How can a club that has been liquidated and doesn't exist, have a vote on ANYTHING? they simply won't exist. If they do exist, there's no need for a vote.

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The clubs will really be voting on whether to allow the license to be transferred from OldCo to NewCo.

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Originally Posted by MB62

One question I am unclear on as regards this SPL vote on a newco.

As I see it, there is no need for a vote until oldco officially become liquidated and therefore no longer exist, until that officially happens we still have ALL present clubs in the SPL.

Once oldco are liquidated we are then a club short in the SPL and need a vote.

Question - How can a club that has been liquidated and doesn't exist, have a vote on ANYTHING? they simply won't exist. If they do exist, there's no need for a vote.

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Is it possible this is all delay tactics from D&P, Greene etc?

The longer its left, the less time we've got until the season starts. Say the club gets liquidated a fortnight to before the new season, the spl would be forced into making a quick decision into who will take their place. With Dundee set up for Div 1 football, promoting them so late would be both unfair to them and would leave Div 1 short with the same scenario in Div 2, Div 3. Will the SPL chairmen get their arm twisted into agreeing this is the easiest option?

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Originally Posted by SiMar

What a fricking mess...all caused by Rangers.

If the SFA/SPL had any baws at all they would say that it is clear at this point there is far too many uncertainties to even contemplate scheduling Rangers being active in the top flight next season..they are after all now certain to be liquidated (why it's going to take another 6 weeks I have no idea) so are certain not to be able to fulfil their fixtures next year.

The absolutely clear and unambiguous decision to take to protect the inegrity of the SPL next year is to promote Dundee now.

Rangers will then have to re-form and re-apply to the SFL as per the SFL's schedule and rules. These are pretty clear as they have do this quite frequently. Of course other teams could also apply and be considered on merit.


None of the above is 'unfair' on Rangers and all of the above could be clarified within a few days. The future of Scotland’s top flight of football would be clarified and Rangers would have a clear route to follow (follow).


The fact this has not happened is ONLY because they are Rangers, part of the Old Firm...this in itself shows the institutionalised bias inherent within the Scottish game and it is this point that should be the main focus of the media and fans alike...if the game is ever to progress the step change has to happen now. Sadly this seems to be the last thing anyone is talking about and the last thing that is likely to happen.

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Fair point about liquidation - is it now actually official that they will be liquidated or does a liquidator not get appointed properly just yet?

Once official, you would think that Dundee could be invited, unless the SPL have already had a request to approve a transfer to a new football club.

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Originally Posted by MB62

One question I am unclear on as regards this SPL vote on a newco.

As I see it, there is no need for a vote until oldco officially become liquidated and therefore no longer exist, until that officially happens we still have ALL present clubs in the SPL.

Once oldco are liquidated we are then a club short in the SPL and need a vote.

Question - How can a club that has been liquidated and doesn't exist, have a vote on ANYTHING? they simply won't exist. If they do exist, there's no need for a vote.

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The way I see it is that both can't exist at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Andy74

Fair point about liquidation - is it now actually official that they will be liquidated or does a liquidator not get appointed properly just yet?

Once official, you would think that Dundee could be invited, unless the SPL have already had a request to approve a transfer to a new football club.

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They are not in liquidation yet. I am not sure when that will heppen... it may be at the end of the 28-day cooling-off period, or it may be when the assets are transferred. It may be today :greengrin

It is the latter part that will take the time. As I said above, it's very difficult to buy a house in under 6 weeks, so I see no difference here. (disclaimer:- no-one is yet sure what assets are being transferred. End disclaimer). Remember that the Airdrie administration took years to complete.

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Originally Posted by HibeeMG

The clubs will really be voting on whether to allow the license to be transferred from OldCo to NewCo.

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Fairy nuff, but that means that the financial transactions will have been completed for the newco to prove they meet the requirements to be a member.

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Originally Posted by WindyMiller

The way I see i,t is that both can't exist at the same time.

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Why not? They are two seperate companies. If the assets are transferred tomorrow then I'd imagine that an application to transfer SPL membership will be made at the same time. Old Co will still hold the SPL share, but New Co will hold all the assets. The Old Co is not liquidated yet as liquidation and the ensueing investigations can take years.

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Originally Posted by WindyMiller

The way I see i,t is that both can't exist at the same time.

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Two compnaies can, the fact is they would be looking to transfer the licence from one to the other so they could quite easily both be around.

Mind you, they both can't have a ground and players and newco might not have any players but might have a ground. Bizarre!

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

You ever tried buying a house in under 6 weeks? :greengrin

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I once went to see a flat on the Sunday. It was mine by the Thursday. :agree:

The ideal scenario now would be for Greene to walk if the SPL vote goes against Rangers, leaving BDO/HMRC to effect a public sale of the assets, OR for them to challenge the sale to Greene in the first place. Is this likely, or are BDO content to chase former directors etc?

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

So if the Oldco still exists when the season starts, what happens next? Can the registration be taken from the oldco and given to the newco and a vote taken on where they start? What happens with the punishments? Will the oldco just be left to die and all focus will be on the newco?

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I thought I'd read some where the UEFA/ FIFA rules don't permit this to happen :pray: Not 100% though ..

Having seen todays developments and for whats gone on in the past IMO Rangers WILL be relegated to the lower divisions.

SPL can't continue to ignore this nonsense - they will have to make a decision soon.

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Originally Posted by LeithenHibby

I thought I'd read some where the UEFA/ FIFA rules don't permit this to happen :pray: Not 100% though ..

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NEWCO & UEFA: Explanation

Chapter 2: Licence Applicant and Licence
Article 12: Definition of licence applicant
1) A licence applicant may only be a football club, i.e. a legal entity fully responsible
for a football team participating in national and international competitions which
either:
a) is a registered member of a UEFA member association and/or its affiliated
league (hereinafter: registered member); or
b) has a contractual relationship with a registered member (hereinafter: football
company).
2 The membership and the contractual relationship (if any) must have lasted at
the start of the licence season, for at least three consecutive years. Any
alteration to the club's legal form or company structure (including, for example,
changing its headquarters, name or club colours, or transferring stakeholdings
between different clubs) during this period in order to facilitate its qualification on
sporting merit and/or its receipt of a licence to the detriment of the integrity of a
competition is deemed as an interruption of membership or contractual
relationship (if any) within the meaning of this provision.

As a newco you haven't been in an association, you need 3 years history before you are eligible, this is why a newco will face 3 years as it has no history so is automatically uneligible to compete.

Something along these lines maybe? Lifted this from another forum

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

They are not in liquidation yet. I am not sure when that will heppen... it may be at the end of the 28-day cooling-off period, or it may be when the assets are transferred. It may be today :greengrin

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And 28 days from now is?...the 12th of July.
If der huns are liquidated on that day then i might start going back to St Pats! But not until after i spend the day in bed with a few bottle o' sparkly laughing like the ******* son of Sid James and Mutley while w***ing myself into a stupour.
Happy happy days!

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Originally Posted by sadtom

And 28 days from now is?...the 12th of July.
If der huns are liquidated on that day then i might start going back to St Pats! But not until after i spend the day in bed with a few bottle o' sparkly laughing like the ******* son of Sid James and Mutley while w***ing myself into a stupour.
Happy happy days!

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Wafting? If it's that warm in your house, turn the heating down. It's summer FFS!

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Originally Posted by HibeeMG

The clubs will really be voting on whether to allow the license to be transferred from OldCo to NewCo.

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But there is no newco, so how can there be a vote, apparently happening on Monday, to transfer a licence that does not, and might not ever exist?

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

They are not in liquidation yet. I am not sure when that will heppen... it may be at the end of the 28-day cooling-off period, or it may be when the assets are transferred. It may be today :greengrin

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It was reported today I believe, that any newco would take at least 14 days to set up, so again we are at the question of, how can you vote on something that is not there to be voted on?

I just don't see how oldco can have any say/vote on something that will be directly linked to them, this is more than sporting integrity it's just basic ethics. For example, if Rod happened to be on a three man panel on whether P.F. should be punished for his gesture at the cup final, he would not be allowed to vote due to self interest, same goes for oldco.