Donald McIntyre is on the stand today Finance director under Craig Whyte :greengrin
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Donald McIntyre is on the stand today Finance director under Craig Whyte :greengrin
Yes but his surname was Schleyer. He was born in Austria.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe6-2
Court case continues today, this was a funny passage of proceedings
Email from Lloyd's to McIntyre, 9 May 2011, just assale is being completed. Loan and security transferred to Wavetower. £15m loancancelled
"All bank accounts across the groupmust be kept in credit, this must be completed today" "Brutal stuff,Findlay suggests
All electronic transfers canceled,including BACS system used to pay salaries
Findlay "Lloyd's severed all linkswith Rangers and said 'don't come back''" McIntyre "effectively,yes"
Findlay asks if Rangers board everdiscussed going into administration, McIntyre says "cropped up" in2010
McIntyre, "it would have been remissof us not to have discussions" Agreed administration discussed beforeWhyte came on scene
Board hoped "if Rangers said theycouldn't pay the revenue would just say 'oh well" Findlay suggestsMcIntyre disagrees
McIntyre also admitted that wee tax case was accepted as due in late 2010. Stewart Regan has previously said that it was still in dispute in 2011 and that is why old Rangers got license to play in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
The head of the SFA caught lying to the benefit of Rangers, will our press pursue this? Will Celtic? They always said they needed a smoking gun, is this it?
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Was that the cards that had fishing and golf on them?Quote:
Originally Posted by jabis
Quite useful for cleaning car parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by jabis
Findlay is giving SDM a bit of a kicking thus far...and that's even before he gives evidence.
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I'm warming to the Donald :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
One.wonders how much of this is personal.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
From the blue room at the top of the marble staircase to the stock car track in central Fife.
Anyone would be a little bit peeved ! :greengrin
Sounding like Kirsty McColl there.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
It's not that far.....
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I've always taken great pride in my neutrality in these type of situations so there isn't a hint of bias on my part - I will cheer on anyone who is giving SDM/Sevco a kicking......Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
https://johnjamessite.com/2017/04/25...y-compromised/
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39709800
Let the cycle recommence http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/winky.gif
As for the court case, stroke of Genius by Craig Whyte to employ Donald Findlay 'cos if anyone knows where the bodies are buried at Ibrox, it will be him. :greengrin
https://soundcloud.com/celticresearc...medium=twitter
This does not tie with this
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a81f3020da.png
Only day 3 of a 12 week trial and already massive questions for the SFA to answer.
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http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/mci...medium=twitter
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The only person in history to recover from Alzheimer's. Remarkable.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
If it hadn't been such a cover up then the crown could have demanded his brain for autopsy. Better yet, have demanded it while the c*** was still alive.
Yup😁Quote:
Originally Posted by Killiehibbie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
in that interview Henderson seems to getting mixed up between investing money and p*!&hing it up against a wall.
And the GFA will respond with massive lies !Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Problem is, who with any authority is going to ask them? These dicks are a law unto themselves. Unless UEFA step in, it'll be middle fingers up to the common herd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
You'd like to think that whytes team will be savvy enough to ask the pertinent questions. Ogilvie will be struck down with some mystery serious illness that will last the durationQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hackett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Thought this guy had retired from the field and was now living a new life under an assumed identity?
His sock puppets have good names - there's a TicToc (brings back fond memories of the Jambo meltdown mega thread) and, from this season, a 'scoosh' (sp, but still)
Ah, the fabulous Kirsty McColl - taken far too early.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
https://thecelticblog.com/2017/04/bl...ithout-a-name/
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He said he was going to pack it in then changed his mind the next day. Guy is completely off the reservation. Claims to have received an 'osman' letter and that the police have informed his parents (?) about credible threats to his life. Do we assume he still lives at home then?Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
Started a fight with Phil McMadeupname and then deleted the post. Made libellous claims about the McCanns that were definitely legally actionable but he's such a nobody, the comments went unnoticed. Refuses to put advertising on his site despite his supposed '11 million hits' yet constantly begs for money in between telling us how great and fearless he is, and he deliberately uses obscure language in his writing that suggests his thesaurus is well-thumbed, and that regular words for stuff (like 'amount' instead of his constant use of 'quantum') are beneath him.
A total loser who seems to be a bit ill. Not even worth reading for the comedy value any more - it's the same crap day after day.
thecelticblog is probably the best of a bad bunch now.
Didn't he try to change his birthday to the day between the 11th and 13th of July?Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
"There's a guy works down the chip swears he's Elvis" by Kristy McColl contains the line "he's a liar and I not sure about you" Mr Findlay may have listened to this recently as he is evoking the spirit of this classic with his questioning of ra peepul. 🙂Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperAllyMcleod
Mike Ashley's got his own fraud problems..........
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/footb...-lee-charnley/
David Murray up first this morning.
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On twitterQuote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
HMRC and police have raided the offices of Newcastle United and West Ham football clubs over suspected Income Tax and National Insurance fraud. Newcastle's Managing Director Lee Charnley has reportedly been arrested as part of the investigation.
HMRC say 180 officers involved in wave of raids + arrests across UK and France for football-related fraud - this is going to be massive
Much as I dislike the Ibrox lot, I've always had the feeling that their tax shenanigans (and look at the consequences) were just the tip of the iceberg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
It will be very interesting indeed to see what becomes of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
That should be fun!
Murray puts things in perspective.
Murray says he thinks the idea Rangers were in financial difficulties "have been hugely exaggerated" compares to Aberdeen and Hearts
Aye right then
the first indication that if Rangers are title stripped then guess who's next??? Jumbos will have a twitchy sphincter! lol :aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
Murray says club agreed to pay £2.8m over "small tax case"Says EBTs "were not contractual" and were "in the accounts"
Murray on EBTs: "Gave us the opportunity to get players we otherwise couldn't afford"
Murray: "It was important that whoever we sold it to preserved the continuity of what the club had achieved"
Murray says he had seen proof of funds from Whyte's solicitors and "everything seemed fine "
Court now being shown email from Gary Withey to Murray's lawyer Oct 2010. Says "up to £33m of funding" available for the acquisition.
So one set of tax evading law breaking, creditor bumping chancers handed the club over to a different set of villains thus ensuring continuity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
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And yet the investigations by the authorities have previously said that it gave them no advantage 🤔Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
It didn't if you consider the authorities only consider the Rangers and Celtc and nobody else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Is It On....
Murray confirms his shares were sold for £1. Says originally price was £4m but he wanted to ensure future funds for players
"We were trying to do what was in the best interests of the club" Says total value of deal £48M"
I wonder if my bank would do a deal in my best interests. "Here's pound, can I have £48million?"
court rises for a break. More like a piss-take.
Absolutely, if they open investigation again the the Sevconians are going to engage in whataboutery. That's what we should hope for.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmith
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If he sold the equity of the business for £1 then the implicit debt was £48m to get to an Enterprise Value (Debt + Equity) of £48m. What a mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
I interpreted it as CW paying off the bank, plus his commitment to funding the playing squad, plus working capital, would equate to the deal being worth £48m to the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Is It On....
Edit.
....which has just been confirmed by SDM.
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Murray says deal was £18m to bank £5m per year for players, £1.7m to refurbish stadium, £2.8m for "small tax case" £5m working capitalQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Murray says if Whyte did not have the money at the time of the transaction he would have cancelled the deal
Murray "there was some tidying up to be done" but says Rangers could have carried on.
Murray says Whyte "indicated he had his own source of funds" no mention of a 3rd party other than his own company, Liberty Capital
Murray "Up until today I've only been in the company of Mr Whyte 4 times"
Get used to it, you might end up sharing a cell :greengrin
Document says Whyte has mentioned to Sir David Murray that a third party fund would be providing "a significant chunk of the financing"
Murray says he has no recollection of conversation
Court now being shown Share Purchase Agreement between Murray International, Wavetower ltd and Liberty Capital
https://www.theguardian.com/football...reatest-conman
Now THAT is how to be a conman. (Don't miss the second reader's comment under the article!)
:greengrin
Court now being shown Share Purchase Agreement between Murray International, Wavetower ltd and Liberty Capital
Murray says he wasn't present when Share Purchase Agreement signed :confused: Shurely Shome Mishtake
Murray says if he knew the source of Whyte's funds was Ticketus "categorically we would not have done the deal"
Murray says the deal with Ticketus was "selling the future" and would be "unsubstainable"
Earlier on from this morning
On paying off the bank debt with future season ticket money Murray says "we could have done that ourselves"
So which is it SDM???
Murray says season tickets are "an asset to the club" and only the board could have approved transacting with season tickets
Tbf, the two aren't mutually exclusive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
However....SDM is still being set up here I feel.
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6097885c6d.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
You think? [emoji23]
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this is a true popcorn day, for this case.
i feel we ought to give some credit to Twitter's @jamesdoleman as well for providing a lot of source material.
looking forward to seeing where this line of questioning to SDM goes...
Fair play to old mutton chops Findlay, he's made a nonsense of the masonic conspiracy theories so far. Let's see what he makes of his old boss ...
Murray has never been his boss.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
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It's interesting because I'm sure there will have been a lot of powerful "Rangers men" fall out with each other over the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
I have no idea who has it in for who.
I'm not sure respect for the law of the land lies at the top of anyone's list of priorities, let alone masonic loyalties.
It is going to be joyful watching a bunch of total b******s tear each other to pieces though.
His old chairman then, you know what I meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Does that mean they owe it to themselves. That sounds like a planQuote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
Findlay asks Murray about his relationship with Whyte"I had no relationship with him" Murray replies
Even though Whyte Screwed him :wink:
Appears as though they were penpals
Witness now being shown a copy of text messages Findlay suggests are those between him and Whyte. 10 pages
Whyte: "I'll gie ye wan poon fir the Rainjurs"Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
Murray: "Ye drive a hard bargain. I wis hopin fir a fiver at least. Sold".
11 Oct 2011 message from Whyte "Hi David I'm not going to make it up to Scotland this week"They then arrange a phone call
4 Nov 2011 Murray to Whyte "Tax tribunal starts soon, give me a call" Murray says can't recall if there was a phone call.
13 Nov Murray to Whyte "let's ensure we remain tight on HMRC situation, don't want any online/media speculation"
Aye, no relationship right enough
SDM not making it easy..
Murray says "I said today I only met him 4 times, I didn't mention texts"Findlay "That's why I'm asking you"
Findlay "The rules of this place are I ask questions and if there is no objection you answer them."
edit
Murray "sorry to change the subject"Findlay "In these courts we call changing the subject not answering the question"
OUCH!
Something for CWG . Big Tax Case, payable 2020?? Paid by who? TRIFC?
Findlay asks about big tax case, Murray agrees could be a £50m liability
"So who was going to pay that?" Findlay asks
Murray says they had strong legal advice they would win big tax case. Says He understands bill will be paid by recipients, payable 2020
Findlay asks if a £40m tax bill would have been a disaster for the club
"Not necessarily" he replies
Murray asked if he had ever discussed in the club going into administration "not in any detail" the witness replies
Findlay asks Murray about evidence he had settled the small tax case. Murray says "we had decided to pay it" but later Whyte took it on
Murray says "it is more than likely" he described Whyte's bid as "the only show in town"
Murray notes that Paul Murray's proposal would not have taken responsibility for big tax case
OK, so that suggests he takeover b Craig Whyte included a liability to settle the BTC.
WOW
What alot of utter nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
BTC hasn't been paid by anyone yet, if that's what you mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
If it's going to be paid, it will be (in part ) by Oldco
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I can hear the squirming from here
Murray agrees he would have read the Share Purchase Agreement but didn't sign it
Photo of him signing it was from a week later.
Either ye signed or ye didna!! Ya Plum!!!
Murray agrees original agreement would have made him "Lifetime President of the Club"Says "this didn't materialise for health reasons"
Murray "Mr Prentice read that this morning"Findlay "We call him the Advocate Depute in this court"
This sounds interesting
Findlay asks if Murray will comment on issues that may arise later in the case
Murray was desperate.
Murray shown an email from him to David Horn from 4 May 2011 (2 days before the takeover)
we need to get this over the line...or the chance of stability is gone" there is no realistic alternative..nothing is perfect"
"Any hope of future funding is lost....our season ticket and future playing squad details will not make good reading"
Referee gets involved, Findlay gets a ticking off.
Lady Stacey intervenes to say she is still unhappy about the production of documents.
Lady Stacey says agreement at pre-trial was documents be available on computer.Findlay says "I don't do electronics"
Last Stacey unhappy the court "Macer" is having to operate the overhead projector(The Macer is the person who carries in the Mace)*
Overhead Projector WTF?!! So 1970's
* who knew?? Is that in case someone attacks the judge
Findlay says no prospect of finishing questioning this afternoon, Lady Stacey sends jury home, back at 10 am tomorrow
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...BP9lnze3636SkA
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8b3cb4622f.png
I've read somewhere before that HMRC have the power to go after the recipients if they win. Certainly hope so.
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I knew it would be good but this is exceeding expectations.
And still 11 weeks to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlex
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Had an argument some time ago with a Muppet over the similarities between the Hun and them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Me - "Once the dust has settled and the Hun are found guilty and all their titles are stripped, they (along with the massed-ranks of the SMSM) will leave no stone un-turned whatsoever in naming all and any other club who they think/know are just as guilty as them - and as you well know, there's only one other blatant cheating-bar-steward of a club in Scotland/SPL so if I were you I'd start saying your farewells to your beloved 5-1 now !"
Muppet - "Never happen - the circumstances between Hearts and Rangers were completely different !"
Me - "Oh well - although I'm well-chuffed you DON'T deny the fact that your club DID cheat as well, so kudos for that, pal - you're the first honest Jambo I've met"
Muppet (spluttering) - "Naw - ah didnae say that, whit ah meant wiz ...................."
Hibees 1 Charity-Thieves FC 0
Wouldn't say 1970 more 1690Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
GGTTH
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deansy
Hearts ran their own Tax Evasion scheme - "loaning" players, 19 in all, from Kaunas to Hearts and paying tax in Lithuania. If Rangers are stripped of their trophies so will Hearts.
https://stv.tv/news/west-central/138...-in-singapore/
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Coincidental....?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Goes to show that that particular pile of sh*** attracted a lot of fliesQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Jury come into court. Judge says one juror is ill today so case cannot proceed
Proceedings adjourned until tomorrow
Oh well, suppose I'll have to work instead :greengrin
Is said juror Mr William McWilliams from Larkhall? :whistle:Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
Maybe he tried to start a far east version of Rangers. "Chee Ting Bah Stars"Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
Booooo!... on all counts :greengrin
WE're back up and running
Findlay: "In 2009 you entrusted theclub to Mr Johnson and other members of the board" adds "RangersFootball Club was close to your heart"
Findlay "when you handed over the clubyou had a plan" Murray "it was a static plan"
Findlay asks how much investment was putinto Rangers after 2009, "Would none be the answer"? Murray "Wasvery little"
Findlay condition of sale was that the bankdebt be eliminated "It was an integral part" Adds small tax case andmoney for stadium also
Murray says his advisors "spoke to meabout the shape of the deal"
Witness shown "Share PurchaseAgreement" between Murray and Whyte, says purchaser will"attempt" to invest £20m Finday "not a commitment"
Murray says he took this as an obligation
Findlay asks if RFC board were "actingwith fiscal prudence" Murray "I assume so" Defence QC showsdocument on screen
Document is an email from Alistair JohnsonDiscussing "how to go forward with the bank" after interim results
Says divisions in the board have been"Exacerbated”
Email: Johnson talks about the necessity ofa "liquidity event" Murray "Alistair was concerned with futurerelationship with the bank"
Email: "unnoficial parties at thebehest of Craig Whyte have been contacting employees for information"
Email continues "Serious issues aboutthe maintenance and upkeep of Ibrox stadium" Murray "That's hisopinion"
Witness shown copy of a submission he gaveduring a legal case states: "I was not aware Martin Bain's notice periodwas 39 months"
Findlay: "The chairman extended theCEO's notice period to 39 months and didn't even tell you"?
Murray "The facts you have given thismorning don't make good reading (you could say!!)
Findlay "You were let down by peoplewho didn't have a clue"? Murray: The facts are there for others tojudge"
Findlay asks Murray about Dave King,witness confirms he was on the board
1. Murray shownnote from Dave King to the takeover panel dated April 2011:
Kingnote to takeover panel is about Whyte's bid says King is "concerned aboutthe source of funds, mentions possible police investigation" (Dave Murray knew!!)
King note "I was approached 10 yearsago to make investment in the club" "After personal discussion withMr Murray" agreed to £5m
Later raised investment to £20m,"asked for assurances 1) Be on the board 2) Not dispose of shareholdingwithout consultation.
Murray says King had "everyopportunity" to buy the club before Whyte came along. Meeting organised inLondon "but he didn't do it"
Murray says King himself removed hisshareholding from Murray sport "signed a piece of paper" to transferto himself
King note questions "The financialstability of the business" notes Murray group in "financialdifficulty" rfc "caught up in damage control"
King note to takeover panel complainsMurray has caused "value destruction" mentions meeting Murray Witnessdoesn't recall conversation
Looks like we are getting to the nittygritty----
King note expresses concern "a zerovalue exit would create value for Murray" Murray "that's just nottrue, there is no proof of that"
King note says Murray was"manipulating the bank debt" "Absolute rubbish" the witnessreplies."No truth in that at all"
King note says Murray "isolatedme" Murray says King was in next door office "he chose to walk outthe door without meeting me"
King says the Whyte takeover had "Notransparency to the Rangers board" Murray replies he wasn't on the boardat the time
Murray "Everything was open and honestas we'll find out as we go through this process"
Findlay asks Murray if King note was just"blatant lies" "It's all in the paperwork" witness replies
Letter 25 Oct 2011 Letter from Dave King toCraig Whyte. Formal letter setting out claim for damages against RangersFootball Club ltd
Letter notes investment of £20m by "atrust I am beneficiary of"
King letter of claim says company"managed in a manner that was against the interests of the company..information kept from me"
King claim was for £20m "the value ofhis investment"
Martin Bain's notice period was extended to 39 months. Simply wow.
You just know Minty is going to come out of this without anything sticking on him.
Apologies for going back a few years and hundreds of pages on this thread :greengrin, but, can I just ask this: when Rangers were liquidated, were they expelled from the league or did they resign their membership? Cheers.
The company that owned the club hasn't yet been liquidated. However, when it went into liquidation, its membership (ie share) of the SPL was, first of all, sold on to the new company. This shouldn't have happened, as it should have been returned to the SPL itself. The share was then returned to the SPL, and Dundee acquired it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
To answer your question, the membership of the SPL just "ceased to be". .. which probably disny help. :greengrin
Murray says of King "I cannot rememberand major issues he had during my chairmanship" adds not working for bankbut to "win trophies
Findlay asksabout King's complaint over tax scheme "We put in the accounts...Mr Kingcould have read the accounts"
In letter King says tax scheme allowedRangers to live on a"false economic basis for a long period of time"Says would have opposed
Murray notes Dave King had been on theboard since 2002, "EBT" tax scheme since 2000 not challenged
King: misled about retail deal, saystransaction "significantly weakened the club" Findlay "was thata lie"? Murray "It's not true
Murray says during transfers out Rangerswere "taking the money early" to help the club, which led to a"discount for funds at present"
Murray "I can't think of manybusiness plans that go 100%"
Findlay "Mr King was on the board thattook the club to a shambles of a playing squad and all the rest...now saying'not me guv'?"
Court rises for morning break (thankgoodness, goes for a pee and coffee)
Effectively the latter. When their CVA failed, Rangers gave notice to the SPL that they were ceasing to operate. Sevco Scotland applied to the SPL to have Rangers' SPL share transferred to them but the other members voted against allowing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
https://stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/...-member-share/
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/18703183
Sevco Scotland then applied to the Scottish Football League and were admitted to the 3rd division after their members voted against a proposal to parachute the new club in at Div 1. Subsequently they applied to and were given a new temporary membership of the SFA, before renaming themselves "Rangers" and having the old Rangers membership of the SFA transferred to them under the conditions of the infamous 5-way agreement (basically they agreed to honour the old club's debts to other football bodies/clubs and to inherit any punishments meted out to the old Rangers).
Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Cheers guys. That's a help :aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
So much has happened, it's hard to see the wood for the trees.
What ****ing trees?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
Cheers for the updates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
I can't help thinking..... WTF has this to do with the case against CW? Thus far, it sounds like blood-letting between SDM, CW, DK and DF.... which is all lovely, of course.
Craig Whyte will be trying to prove that Rangers were in a far worse state than he had been led to believe by Murray when he bought them and that's why he had to borrow from ticketus and stop paying HMRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I think. [emoji23]
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I was wondering as well, but DK is the only one still 'involved' in the institution, which might be relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
But the fact remains he defrauded the club. The Crown have an open goal here, and DF seems to be doing his best to obscure that by making it into a soap opera.
Good thinking OzQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby