Hopefully this can be a catalyst for peace 🤞🏻Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
Much easier for Isreal to call it a day to some degree with one of the key figures of causing the conflict dead.
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Hopefully this can be a catalyst for peace 🤞🏻Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
Much easier for Isreal to call it a day to some degree with one of the key figures of causing the conflict dead.
I really hope this is the case.[emoji1696][emoji1696][emoji1696][emoji1696]Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1642
i can't see it someone else will just pick up the baton, and certainly not until all the Hostages are returned i would think
Can always hope. Unless a terrorist group ceases to exist, there will always be a next leader. It doesn’t mean they will be as effective, popular or as heartless as their predecessor.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
Backing down was never an option for Sinwar after October 7th. Perhaps his successor will see that ceasefire is the best for the people he claims to fight for, or maybe a little self preservation when you look at the Israelis ability to target and kill leaders. Like i say, we can only hope, and IMO today is much more likely to lead to a ceasefire than most other recent events.
Of course Iran pull more than a few of the strings so it might depend on whether or not they are ready to back out or not. I’d suggest that they should if their leaders have an ounce of sense.
I'm not really getting the hostages thing anymore. It's not giving Hamas any leverage as Gaza is totally destroyed, hundreds of thousands are dead or injured, with many more starving.
Hand them over. I presume the remaining ones are dead anyway.
All this does is give Israel an excuse to continue to kill more innocent civilians in the name of hostage retrieval.
I don’t think Hamas or anyone else thought we would be where we are now? I think the Israeli response has been of several times the magnitude that we have seen before.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
Up until now there could be no negotiation because the Israeli’s would not deal with the Hamas leadership. That is gone now so maybe someone can step up and do a deal? At some point the Palestinians have to look around and try find a way to make it stop? That means no Hamas. Let’s hope they take this chance.
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The war ceased to be about hostages a long time ago. It's not widely reported because it doesn't suit the narrative of either 'side' but there are regular anti war and ant Netanyahu protests in Israel. These are largely orchestrated by the families of the remaining hostages who say that Netanyahu hasn't done enough to get them home and has used their loved ones as a front for a political and territorial war.
You only have to look at the ongoing encroachments into the West Bank. There has also been a ramping up of demolition orders in Palestinian neighbourhoods in East Jerusalem. The local authorities will tell you this is because the homes don't have planning permission but 95-99% of applications for planning consent from Arabs are refused; in a shock to almost no one in neighbouring areas with largely Jewish populations the success rate for planning applications is infinitely higher.
It's not really a secret. The pictures are there of Netanyahu pictured with his maps showing a plan of a 'new middle east' that has Israel and Israel alone on the map, Gaza and the West Bank are consigned to history. The aim of the destruction of Israel by Hamas and Iran is well reported and well understood; the destruction of the other side is as much an aim of the current Israeli leadership but it's less openly acknowledged despite the evidence of our eyes. I'd love to be wrong but I think any hope that this latest killing is a watershed moment is misplaced. There just isn't an Arafat or Rabin on either side in enough of a position of power to get round the table to try to get a 2 state solution back on the table (and the latter found out in no uncertain terms how unpalatable that is to some on his side). There also isn't a western leader in the vein of Clinton with the skill or gravitas to broker such talks.
The war ends when Netanyahu wants it to end or when he is given the heave ho in 2026, given his plummeting popularity rating that seems a possibility. Yesh Atid are currently topping opinion polls and they have a stated aim of reentering negotiations with the Palestinians and halting further illegal settlements. It would be a step forward albeit they would require a coalition to govern.
It's also worth noting that 'halting illegal settlements' is sort of equivelent to Putin trying to arrange a ceasefire based on current front lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
Another day, another mass killing by Israel on a refugee camp.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xez14e7lro
The hostage situation will have no bearing on what happens. Netanyahu will continue to wipe out the Palestinians until such time as America tell him to stop. There are already plans to make the north of Gaza into a settlement for the Jews.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
Israel striking Iran just now.
Should the title of this thread be changed to War In The Middle-East?
Anyone else noticing the language being used by Iran?
Farsi?Quote:
Originally Posted by stokesmessiah
[emoji23]Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
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I'm not condoning violence but a 'pogrom'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2y33ee1klo
Those in the Israeli govt don't half like to take the piss.
Ajax are a club who have fans sympathetic to Israel, a bit like Spurs. It’s quite clear some Maccabi Tel Aviv fans engaged in anti Palestinian and anti Arab chanting, looked for fights on the transport network and pulled down at least one Palestinian flag before some of their number were attacked.
It’s cynical by the Israeli government and its sympathisers to use the word ‘pogrom’ The only ethnic cleansing going on is in Gaza.
Everything isn't black and white and simple. Gaza is a genocide that's simple and obvious but that's separate from lots of the incidents yesterday. The only pogrom is in gaza.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop Hibee
In saying that the group that pulled down the flag you can understand getting beaten. I've also seen a half dozen of videos of the Moroccan guys surrounding single people saying what country are you from then leathering them when they didn't answer. One video of them all surrounding a guy and only releasing him when he showed his passport and it was Ukrainian. I saw a video of an old guy with a macabi strip getting punched from behind when walking in the centre during the day on his own and a video of a young girl getting pushed over.
It's utterly vile antisemitism utterly horrendous pack racism on European streets. All they fans aren't the Israeli government, most just wanted to watch football. Downplaying it is very suspect
I've seen videos of the events in Amsterdam and the guys attacking the Tel-Aviv fans were not exactly the ethnic group that you'd first think of when somebody mentions 'Nazis'.
I think Netanyahu, and those of his ilk, will be milking this for all it's worth, as any reference to WWII is always a fantastic deflection from their own actions.
Attacking football fans purely because of their nationality is ridiculous, though, regardless of who the perpetrators were.
Sending rescue planes was a personal favourite. Like they won’t have planes at schiphol to get them home.[emoji849][emoji23]Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Seriously? I totally missed that.
Jeezo, he really is at it. :faf:
Owen Jones, who I am usually not a great fan of, has a good thread on Twitter about the gaslighting going on regarding events in Amsterdam:
https://x.com/owenjonesjourno/status...GCP6et5KQ&s=19
I think people use the term Nazis to define bigots, I don't think they literally mean they are goose stepping in a Hugo Boss uniform, they were young Moroccan bigots. Loads of the violence I would dismiss as football violence but loads was racism. Randoms getting smashed unless they show their passport hasn't been seen in Amsterdam since 1945. The fact that people think it's fine or funny because Isreali government is creating genocide is unfair. Imagine our kids or friends got leathered abroad because the UK caused hundreds of thousands of deaths in IraqQuote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
I hate the Israeli government I don't hate Jews or Israelis unlike many
https://x.com/yousaama/status/185483...dxJXScFNwz8V4A
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Luckily this lad had a Ukrainian passport or he would have been battered zero to do with football. A yank that has never been to an away game for the football isn't worth listening too. It's as bad as all the people from England this week trying to talk about the geography of the cowgate because the poor guy died on SaturdayQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Hamas leaders being expelled from Qatar.[emoji106]
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For some balance on the events in Amsterdam, The Guardian have an article entitled 'What we know'
------------------------------------
Violence in Amsterdam around a Europa League football match between the local team Ajax and Israel’s Maccabi Tel Aviv sparked horror around the world, against a backdrop of soaring antisemitic and Islamophobic abuse and attacks across Europe fuelled by the Middle East conflict.
The Amsterdam mayor, Femke Halsema, has said she had not been told the match was high-risk, although earlier last week the Turkish club Beşiktaş moved their match against Maccabi to a neutral country for fear of “provocative actions”.
Here is what we know so far about how events unfolded – and politicians reacted.
What happened on Wednesday night?
The first incidents were reported on Wednesday evening, the day before the match. Police say Maccabi fans tore a Palestinian flag down from the facade of a building and burned it, shouted “**** you, Palestine”, and vandalised a taxi.
After a radio callout a number of taxi drivers converged on a casino on the nearby Max Euweplein, where about 400 Israeli supporters had gathered. Police dispersed the taxi drivers and escorted supporters out of the casino.
Verified social media videos show Maccabi fans setting off flares and fireworks, chanting in Hebrew “olé, olé, let the IDF [Israel Defense Forces] win, we will **** the Arabs”, and declaring that there were “no children” left in Gaza.
Ams
terdam has a large Muslim community and has allowed more than 2,500 protests against the war in Gaza so far this year.
What happened the next day?
There were further clashes on Thursday afternoon on the central Dam Square, where a large crowd of Maccabi supporters had gathered. Police said pro-Palestine demonstrators tried to reach the square. Two arrests were made.
Maccabi supporters were filmed chanting anti-Arab slogans on their way to the Johan Cruyff Arena. Police escorted the 2,600 fans to the game and dispersed protesters defying a ban on a pro-Palestinian demonstration outside the stadium.
After the match, which Ajax won 5-0, there were numerous attacks, described by Halsema as “hit and run”, on Maccabi supporters across the city centre. Footage showed masked youths on scooters and ebikes seeking out, chasing down and beating victims – mostly in Maccabi colours – until about 4am.
Witness accounts and screenshots of mobile phone message exchanges suggest some were targeted as Jews, being asked if they were Jewish or to show their passports. False reports circulated that Maccabi supporters had gone missing or been taken hostage. Five people were hospitalised and 20 to 30 slightly injured.
Footage has also emerged of Maccabi supporters close to Amsterdam central railway station setting off fireworks, chanting anti-Palestine slogans and taking iron scaffolding tubes and wooden planks from a building site to use as weapons. Other footage shows Maccabi fans running through the streets swinging belts.
Regarding the above, I've left out the Guardian's 'summation' of the meaning of those events, as it seems to be at odds with I posted above... along the lines of pogroms, Kristallnacht, etc... but feel free to read it all for yourself.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-football-fans
The new International Development Committee for this Parliament puts questions to Prof Nizam Mamode, Prof Mamode is a UK surgeon who volunteered his medical skills to help in Gaza. He gives a horrific account of his experiences working in a Gazan hospital. I wonder if this will be reported on?
https://www.youtube.com/live/-E2Jn-4NmKQ
Serious disorder between Israel and France fans tonight in Paris.