The generic Hearts thread

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Originally Posted by Estupendo

"After the talks collapsed, Budge emailed the 42 clubs saying she had no hard feelings. And that was very magnanimous of her."

Didn't she release a statement calling them "sanctimoneous", "disrespectful", "outrageous", "shameful" etc?

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Yup. Seems a bit two-faced. Still any clubs feeling a bit guilty and sorry for Hearts probably got over it quickly once they read the Hearts statement.

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Originally Posted by CapitalGreen

Ann Budge says she wasn’t driven purely by self-interest. If that was the case, why did she not continue pursuing reconstruction for the lower leagues after it was made clear there would be no changes to the Premiership? That she was no more longer bothered about helping the smaller clubs reeks of self-interest. Once there was nothing in it for her she left them high and dry.

As has been mentioned, she could have pushed for a 12-12-10-10 system which would have had no financial impact on the Premiership and would have satisfied all other aggrieved teams with the exception of ICT.

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That’s hit the nail on the head right there :aok:

Obviously if we had any decent journalists left in Scotland they’d ask her that exact question, particularly given her last statement accuses other clubs of acting in their own self interests. But I think we all know that won’t happen.

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Originally Posted by Kavinho

....

Yes a few games have been missed, but they've been dreadful for a long long time now (except when playing against us....)

We really did do our best to help them but to no avail.
Shame ...

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That's the bit that gets me.

Hibs did their utmost to help Hearts avoid relegation by gifting them six points and they STILL mucked it up.

Not even one word of thanks for our generosity, either.

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Originally Posted by Barney McGrew

The S*n are this morning running a story where Ian Murray is having a pop at Dr Mrs Budge over the amount of money they’ve “wasted on reshaping the club time after time”

The infighting has startedi :greengrin

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He's had one or two pops at them recently but this is definitely his hardest-hitting. I guess he's entitled to be raging after seeing the amount of work he put into helping the club back during the admin days go to waste. I recall he took plenty of flak for it, especially as Tynecastle's not even in his constituency.

The Sun and the Scotsman though present the same story very differently. The Sun (correctly) goes in hard on the way Budge has run the club into the ground by squandering millions, whereas Allisbarry buries the criticism of Budge at the bottom of his story and instead leads with how awful it is for the fans who ploughed so much cash into the club only to see them relegated again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52594690

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Originally Posted by jacomo

Michael Stewart in The Sun:

Hearts chief Ann Budge has been stitched up.. but she didn’t do herself any favours, says Michael Stewart

ANN BUDGE will spend much of the next few months thinking over what went wrong during this car crash of a season for Hearts.

And the wisdom of accepting a role heading the SPFL taskforce looking at reconstruction is surely something she will consider.

I can understand why Budge did it, with your fate sitting in so many other people’s hands it would have made sense to her to be inside the process rather than looking on and hoping.

And I’m sure she felt, deep down, that she could persuade people to see things her way.

After the talks collapsed, Budge emailed the 42 clubs saying she had no hard feelings. And that was very magnanimous of her.

But, as the wreckage of reconstruction plans lie scattered across the floor, it’s hard not to feel she was stitched up.

It was far too easy for her to be painted as acting purely in self-interest, with comments about changing the structure in the past thrown back in her face.

Strategic errors, from making a 12-month reconstruction her aim at the outset to joining in on the battle against the SPFL, dogged her throughout.

And, with Scottish football facing financial ruin as well as being at war with itself over the botched vote and Rangers’ dossier, you always got the impression clubs would be more interested in other things right now.

That’s how it has panned out. But while everyone recognises the peril Scottish football is in, it is a shame our clubs couldn’t reach a consensus to help everyone. It’s not just Hearts, of course — Partick Thistle and Stranraer will be relegated without seeing out the season too, while the pyramid system has been abandoned for the year, leaving Kelty Hearts and Brora Rangers stranded.

Self-interest and in- fighting have come to the fore again, as they always do in Scottish football, sadly.

I don’t see why we couldn’t have made a change to last two or three years, rather than insist on 12 months or it being locked in for the long term.

We could have tried it on a trial basis then let the clubs decide whether they thought it was working.

All it would have taken is a bit of forward thinking, but you get the impression that people came at it from already entrenched positions.So the vast majority of the pain from Covid-19’s fallout is being lumped on to three clubs.

Despite the sympathy I have for Hearts because of the brutal nature of the season ending early, it’s wrong to think the club are blameless in this mess.

The season has been a disaster and for a club of Hearts’ size, with that level of budget, to be sitting bottom even after 30 games is shocking.

Mismanagement happened at all levels, from Budge in the boardroom to the shambolic tenure of Craig Levein right through to current, and probably soon to be former, boss Daniel Stendel.

So many people have to share the blame. The Hearts fans will focus on the SPFL right now and the unfairness of the process.

But while they have a point, it doesn’t tell the whole story.

Levein had a horror show as director of football and was even worse as manager, signing a ridiculous amount of players who were nowhere near good enough.

The revolving door of new signings, many way short of the standard needed at Hearts, sums up how the football side of the club was allowed to get out of control. Was there anyone in the boardroom overseeing and ever saying no? It never looked like it as Levein got free rein.

And, even when they finally sacked him, they walked into another mess of their own making.

The appointment of Stendel kidded some people on — and there are still fans who reckon he’d have turned it around.

But let’s be honest, he’s been a disaster too.

The German admitted he didn’t know anything about Scottish football and did little to convince he wanted the job in the first place.

It’s amazing to think anyone was convinced he was the right man at the right time. Hearts were third bottom, level on points with St Johnstone, when he came in.

Fast forward a few months and, when the league’s called, Saints will move into the top six — while Hearts are heading to the Championship.

So it’s not as though he inherited a lost cause, he had the time and backing to get it right and couldn’t.

Ultimately, Budge is the person who has presided over the whole thing.

She’s got plenty to reflect on — and it’s not just how they’ve been let down by the SPFL.

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If only she didn’t listen to the hearts fans and kept Craig Levein, she would have been heading the reconstruction group trying to save St Mirren these last three weeks?

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Originally Posted by jacomo

Michael Stewart in The Sun:

Hearts chief Ann Budge has been stitched up.. but she didn’t do herself any favours, says Michael Stewart

ANN BUDGE will spend much of the next few months thinking over what went wrong during this car crash of a season for Hearts.

And the wisdom of accepting a role heading the SPFL taskforce looking at reconstruction is surely something she will consider.

I can understand why Budge did it, with your fate sitting in so many other people’s hands it would have made sense to her to be inside the process rather than looking on and hoping.

And I’m sure she felt, deep down, that she could persuade people to see things her way.

After the talks collapsed, Budge emailed the 42 clubs saying she had no hard feelings. And that was very magnanimous of her.

But, as the wreckage of reconstruction plans lie scattered across the floor, it’s hard not to feel she was stitched up.

It was far too easy for her to be painted as acting purely in self-interest, with comments about changing the structure in the past thrown back in her face.

Strategic errors, from making a 12-month reconstruction her aim at the outset to joining in on the battle against the SPFL, dogged her throughout.

And, with Scottish football facing financial ruin as well as being at war with itself over the botched vote and Rangers’ dossier, you always got the impression clubs would be more interested in other things right now.

That’s how it has panned out. But while everyone recognises the peril Scottish football is in, it is a shame our clubs couldn’t reach a consensus to help everyone. It’s not just Hearts, of course — Partick Thistle and Stranraer will be relegated without seeing out the season too, while the pyramid system has been abandoned for the year, leaving Kelty Hearts and Brora Rangers stranded.

Self-interest and in- fighting have come to the fore again, as they always do in Scottish football, sadly.

I don’t see why we couldn’t have made a change to last two or three years, rather than insist on 12 months or it being locked in for the long term.

We could have tried it on a trial basis then let the clubs decide whether they thought it was working.

All it would have taken is a bit of forward thinking, but you get the impression that people came at it from already entrenched positions.So the vast majority of the pain from Covid-19’s fallout is being lumped on to three clubs.

Despite the sympathy I have for Hearts because of the brutal nature of the season ending early, it’s wrong to think the club are blameless in this mess.

The season has been a disaster and for a club of Hearts’ size, with that level of budget, to be sitting bottom even after 30 games is shocking.

Mismanagement happened at all levels, from Budge in the boardroom to the shambolic tenure of Craig Levein right through to current, and probably soon to be former, boss Daniel Stendel.

So many people have to share the blame. The Hearts fans will focus on the SPFL right now and the unfairness of the process.

But while they have a point, it doesn’t tell the whole story.

Levein had a horror show as director of football and was even worse as manager, signing a ridiculous amount of players who were nowhere near good enough.

The revolving door of new signings, many way short of the standard needed at Hearts, sums up how the football side of the club was allowed to get out of control. Was there anyone in the boardroom overseeing and ever saying no? It never looked like it as Levein got free rein.

And, even when they finally sacked him, they walked into another mess of their own making.

The appointment of Stendel kidded some people on — and there are still fans who reckon he’d have turned it around.

But let’s be honest, he’s been a disaster too.

The German admitted he didn’t know anything about Scottish football and did little to convince he wanted the job in the first place.

It’s amazing to think anyone was convinced he was the right man at the right time. Hearts were third bottom, level on points with St Johnstone, when he came in.

Fast forward a few months and, when the league’s called, Saints will move into the top six — while Hearts are heading to the Championship.

So it’s not as though he inherited a lost cause, he had the time and backing to get it right and couldn’t.

Ultimately, Budge is the person who has presided over the whole thing.

She’s got plenty to reflect on — and it’s not just how they’ve been let down by the SPFL.

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The beginnings of common sense is starting to return to Michael Stewart.

Budge stating temporary reconstruction before discussions kicked off - huge mistake.

Being joint leader or the working party- big mistake. Be one of the group yes but not the joint leader. I can just imagine the patronising tone on the Zoom calls.

Backing Rangers in their crusade against the SPFL was a big mistake and probably helped reinforce the reason given by Dave Cormack as to why reconstruction talks were shelved i.e. to focus on getting football back up and running. Budge being joint leader strengthened this reasoning.

Not mentioned by MS but saying you shouldn't get the title if you haven't played all the games was also a big mistake and probably lost her the chance of support from Celtic, Dundee United, Raith and Cove.

The one bit I agree with Ann Budge on is the prime reason is probably the Sky deal and rightly so but I don't know why Dave Cormack didn't refer to that too. The Sky deal is crucial and in these uncertain times it is even more vital and must be protected, particularly if up to £10m will have to be paid back for the incomplete season (thanks Rangers for making it more likely to be closer to £10m than it would have been). All SPFL clubs will need as much money as possible so to jeopardise such a big amount of income to rescue the worst clubs in the leagues from relegation would be madness.

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Originally Posted by Paisley Hibby

Not terrifying. It's pleasing (as they would say). The longer they can't see what everyone else can the better. If there's a way of fekking up on getting promoted back up quickly then Budge is just the woman to find it, and in style 😂

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Budge is a gift that will keep on giving to us. When the Hearts supporters finally realise that, we can then look forward to an ugly transfer of power. They will then mess it up themselves for a period. Gonna be a fun ride.

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

I'm getting sick of this "self interest" thing being chucked in our (and other clubs') faces.

If expanding the premiership to 14 teams or whatever doesn't suit us, for whatever reasons, we are right to vote against it.

Hearts merit relegation and can go an f*** themselves.

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The fact that the proposal (or lack thereof) was a temporary restructure tells us that even she didn't believe it was the best possible set-up. The only conclusion to be drawn from that is that it was purely a Save Hearts In Trouble proposal.

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.

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Originally Posted by CapitalGreen

Ann Budge says she wasn’t driven purely by self-interest. If that was the case, why did she not continue pursuing reconstruction for the lower leagues after it was made clear there would be no changes to the Premiership? That she was no more longer bothered about helping the smaller clubs reeks of self-interest. Once there was nothing in it for her she left them high and dry.

As has been mentioned, she could have pushed for a 12-12-10-10 system which would have had no financial impact on the Premiership and would have satisfied all other aggrieved teams with the exception of ICT.

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100% this.

If Heart of Midlothian was a person you'd actually have them sent to rehab by a GP.

I`m really worried though because according to Brokeback, because we have gone down the route of wage deferral, we will go to the wall before them.

Its been nice knowing you all (well, except for the git that i used to sit beside in the FF Lower who would criticise everything Lewis did, even to the point of blaming LS when he wasn`t on the pitch lol)

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Originally Posted by Kavinho

They've amassed the lowest number of points over the last season and a half


Clearly the worst side in the league and undoubtedly deserve to go down.

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I'm not sure how you're calculating that, as this season hasn't finished yet, but even if true, they didn't have the lowest number of points over one full season...which is usually how relegation is decided.

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Originally Posted by Irish_Steve

I`m really worried though because according to Brokeback, because we have gone down the route of wage deferral, we will go to the wall before them.

Its been nice knowing you all (well, except for the git that i used to sit beside in the FF Lower who would criticise everything Lewis did, even to the point of blaming LS when he wasn`t on the pitch lol)

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We will just start the club again and claim we still have the Scottish from 2016 so it's fine.

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Originally Posted by bringbackbenny

I know what you mean but the SPFL has the authority to determine when the season is 'complete' - and as it's extremely unlikely that the normal full season will now complete it'll be closed as complete. all written up front and perfectly logical and explainable in lieu of the current circumstances.

tough on Hearts but rules are rules and they can't not be applied just because it's Hearts that are in the crapper.

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I totally agree with that. I suppose it just depends how you interpret what is "fair" in a particular set of circumstances. It's not fair that they've been relegated without finishing bottom across a full season, but that doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to happen when the entire context is taken into account.

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Originally Posted by Hibernian Verse

We will just start the club again and claim we still have the Scottish from 2016 so it's fine.

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Most maroon balloons in my life have had us going bust for decades and for no reason that stands up, meantime we've had the entertainment of the pre admin Hearts putting themselves into administration with the stigma of that quite incredible creditors list and all the chaos associated with their current owner blowing all that money.

Do we need to say anymore?

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Originally Posted by Bostonhibby

Most maroon balloons in my life have had us going bust for decades and for no reason that stands up, meantime we've had the entertainment of the pre admin Hearts putting themselves into administration with the stigma of that quite incredible creditors list and all the chaos associated with their current owner blowing all that money.

Do we need to say anymore?

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When you put it like that you just have to feel sorry for them.





















Actually, nah.

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Originally Posted by Future17

I totally agree with that. I suppose it just depends how you interpret what is "fair" in a particular set of circumstances. It's not fair that they've been relegated without finishing bottom across a full season, but that doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to happen when the entire context is taken into account.

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IMO it’s harsh, but it’s not unfair.

Unfair would be relegating another team instead of Hearts, or denying Dundee Utd their promotion.

Everyone knew the rules when the season started. The team that finishes bottom of the Premier league goes down, and the club that finishes top of the Championship goes up. And the season is all but finished...

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Originally Posted by jacomo

IMO it’s harsh, but it’s not unfair.

Unfair would be relegating another team instead of Hearts, or denying Dundee Utd their promotion.

Everyone knew the rules when the season started. The team that finishes bottom of the Premier league goes down, and the club that finishes top of the Championship goes up. And the season is all but finished...

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Unfair to me would be spending money you don't have on players to attain an unfair sporting advantage. Unfair to me is teams not paying taxes and bumping their creditors once in administration and finally the worst one, unfair is lying about your finances (going concern anyone?) until the end of a season to ensure a points deduction did not occur therefore, demoting another team.

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

Unfair to me would be spending money you don't have on players to attain an unfair sporting advantage. Unfair to me is teams not paying taxes and bumping their creditors once in administration and finally the worst one, unfair is lying about your finances (going concern anyone?) until the end of a season to ensure a points deduction did not occur therefore, demoting another team.

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Spot on.

Saved me the effort.


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Dunfermline statement
http://www.dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=Ch...ment_&ID=11909

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Originally Posted by Waxy

Dunfermline statement
http://www.dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=Ch...ment_&ID=11909

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As most suspected by the Inverness CEO's tone on Sportsound, it was he who was the bully.

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Originally Posted by FilipinoHibs

As most suspected by the Inverness CEO's tone on Sportsound, it was he who was the bully.

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Wonder if Chuckys bitch English will be writing a story about this statement!!!

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

So Tom English is Saruman?

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Tom English would have to be King Theoden, or perhaps an uncredited orc.

A side point, but I've been really impressed with how Hibs have conducted themselves during this whole affair. Particularly by the fact that we don't realse a statement every five minutes. We're probably in League 2 of the statement league, which highlights the professionalism of those behind the scenes in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by 007

The beginnings of common sense is starting to return to Michael Stewart.

Budge stating temporary reconstruction before discussions kicked off - huge mistake.

Being joint leader or the working party- big mistake. Be one of the group yes but not the joint leader. I can just imagine the patronising tone on the Zoom calls.

Backing Rangers in their crusade against the SPFL was a big mistake and probably helped reinforce the reason given by Dave Cormack as to why reconstruction talks were shelved i.e. to focus on getting football back up and running. Budge being joint leader strengthened this reasoning.

Not mentioned by MS but saying you shouldn't get the title if you haven't played all the games was also a big mistake and probably lost her the chance of support from Celtic, Dundee United, Raith and Cove.

The one bit I agree with Ann Budge on is the prime reason is probably the Sky deal and rightly so but I don't know why Dave Cormack didn't refer to that too. The Sky deal is crucial and in these uncertain times it is even more vital and must be protected, particularly if up to £10m will have to be paid back for the incomplete season (thanks Rangers for making it more likely to be closer to £10m than it would have been). All SPFL clubs will need as much money as possible so to jeopardise such a big amount of income to rescue the worst clubs in the leagues from relegation would be madness.

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The thing is you can only flog a dead horse for so long. Guys like Stewart have to realise they are paid to talk about Scottish football and in particular the top flight. If they piss off the top flight clubs and keep talking up a Championship club then they alienate themselves and whose going to be interested in their views. Fine go on sportsound when it’s a focus on the Championship and talk up Hearts then.

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Originally Posted by FilipinoHibs

As most suspected by the Inverness CEO's tone on Sportsound, it was he who was the bully.

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What a contrast between Dunfermline's straightforward response and the Inverness position which is really a series of cobbled together sections of discussions to attempt to meet a preconceived aim.

There's a real stench of incompetence at best around their guy.

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Originally Posted by Bostonhibby

What a contrast between Dunfermline's straightforward response and the Inverness position which is really a series of cobbled together sections of discussions to attempt to meet a preconceived aim.

There's a real stench of incompetence at best around their guy.

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The guy who forgot to order seats? Hard to believe.[emoji23]


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Originally Posted by Waxy

Dunfermline statement
http://www.dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=Ch...ment_&ID=11909

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ooft, take that mr caley bully boy, how embarrassing is that

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Originally Posted by HFC93

A side point, but I've been really impressed with how Hibs have conducted themselves during this whole affair. Particularly by the fact that we don't realse a statement every five minutes. We're probably in League 2 of the statement league, which highlights the professionalism of those behind the scenes in my opinion.

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That is spot on, I would be worried if we were having to release utter nonsense every week, just shows how smooth and professional is run at Hibs, the only time we release something it is positive especially with the NHS