Parliament briefing on services sector.
https://researchbriefings.parliament...ummary/SN02786
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Parliament briefing on services sector.
https://researchbriefings.parliament...ummary/SN02786
Others use their power over immigration levels which can have a side effect of stifling growth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
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Also, all this talk we've now left and the world hasn't fallen in/we haven't become all conquering hero's etc etc... We do all realise nothing has actually changed yet? We need to wait until after the end of the transition period before we can say Brexit is proved as a bad/good thing.
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Not even then I wouldn't think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Alf
There's also many factors at play, not just the economy.
I do welcome any good news though, and a positive report for the service sector in the turbulent times leading up to Brexit (31/1 version) would seem to be just that on the face of it.
Out of interest the article pointed to some scores increasing as the main reason for the joy - what were the scores historically? "Fastest paced since 2018" is maybe a good start, but might not be as fantastic as it looks.
Seems like some limited stats from a Tory newspaper is enough to convince some.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Alf
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvm3xeO1lA0
A really fabulous video by Jonathan Pie. Sums up for me as to why the remain side lost. The Momentum types (and to be fair a small minority of the Lib Dem and the pro Scottish independence groups) were more likely to call anyone who disagreed with them a "Tory", "Blairite", "racist" than actually engage with them in debate.
I cant actually remember any debate, just soundbites and slogans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
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Yep, If it can't be said in less that 140 characters or in a funny picture with a slogan added to it then it's not worth listening to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
:agree: Already reports of turmoil (well, disagreement between master and puppet) inside no 10, and the reason is very clear. Winners' messaging has mutated from successful 3-word 4-syllable slogans to "Unleash Britain's Potential" which is the right number of words but has far, far too many syllables to resonate. All downhill for the government now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...P=share_btn_twQuote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
Quote:
David McAllister, a German Christian Democrat MEP, who is leading the European parliament on EU-UK talks, said the issue of access to waters was “inseparable” from overall deal, as well as access to European fisheries markets. Two-thirds of fish caught by British boats are exported to the EU.
“The issue of free access to waters is inseparable from the issue of free trade and access of UK fisheries products to the EU market,” the MEP told journalists last week. “So the negotiations of the UK on fisheries cannot be disconnected and will have a direct link with the negotiations on trade in goods. It’s that simple. If the UK grants us access to territorial waters, to fish, then on the other hand the UK will have access to export fisheries to the single market.”
I'm really struggling to work out if I strongly believe you should be booted off of here completely, or whether I think you're one of those worth keeping for a spell, for the entertainment value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slavers
I'm normally not too far away with these, and I predict you'll be gone before the Scottish Premier league split :aok:
Wouldnt count on it, he/she has been posting the same obnoxious pish on a number of predictable topics for quite some time. Just scroll past and ignore and boredom may eventually set in.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeRussell
Bloody immigrants, coming over here and learning our language better than the natives ...
https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/s...676864519?s=20
The government finally admits all the guff about "frictionless trade" (Johnson was still peddling this at the Nissan plant in Sunderland as recently as December) was a load of old *****.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...siness-leaders
This should have the entire country raging but the Brexiters won't care and Remainers priced in lying *****baggery so long ago that it barely raises an eyebrow,
****s.
This is just utterly bizarre. We are giving up free trade not only with a market of 450m+ on our doorsteps but with all the other countries/trading blocs our former trading bloc had free trade agreements with. And Brexiters still think they're champions of free trade. :confused:
https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/sta...30238647582722
****** loonies.
EU's new off-shore Tax Laws avoided though. That's all that matters. All the "sovereignty" "take back control" bollocks is just the window dressing to avoid the scrutiny that would have come down on them. They dont care if they look daft.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
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Which will come first: completion of the new bridge, or Mark Francois coming to see what Brexit's really all about? :hmmm:Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Hibs' Champions League win will narrowly precede both.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
Also notice the Tories have started talking about an "Australian style deal" with the EU. Presumably hoping nobody will notice that Australia currently doesn't have a FTA with the EU at all. They really are a shameless bunch of ********s.
Jeez, they'll be taking all the jobs that some of the natives have no intention of taking, and paying all that tax and NI to keep said natives in the style they have come to expect[emoji6]Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
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Great, let me know when they start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slavers
They have been told to always substitute ‘no deal’ with ‘Australian style deal’. It’s the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
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Not sure that's gonna have a significant effect on your post count.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slavers
It's about quality not quantity of posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Then please remember to use an apostrophe in I'll 😁. Unless you actually are sick 🤒🤔Quote:
Originally Posted by Slavers
I can't believe you haven't been on to tell us that UK Q4 GDP was flat vs the EU average 0.1% growth. Normally you love these kind of stats. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Slavers
Lack of belief from UK business! Believe harder!Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Bots usually have a lot of posts to make on various platforms, he'll get round to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Smith sacked as NI Secretary. Johnson weeding out anyone who shows any sort of competence from his cabinet. Bradley still available as replacement.
Bizarre. He actually got somewhere and seems to have been well regarded on all sides in NI and the Republic. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
Was a favourite topic here for a while so interesting to see that GBP is approaching €1.20 today.
Probably more to do with the ongoing troubles of the Euro than sterling ‘strength’ right enough but will be interesting to see if the trend continues through the trade negotiations.
The Euro continues to be hammered down to in no small part of it being the currencies world favourite carry trade as the ECB continues to try and fail with its negative real interest rate policy.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/chart/G...hhcnQifX19fQ==Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
Back to 2017 levels but still a long way behind pre-ref by the look of that chart.
Anyway, Brexit woes are going to hit the Europeans as well as the UK.*
* unless we believe, really, really hard of course!
Absolutely disgusting service at Waitrose. Queued 55 minutes and not one straight banana to be seen. This isn't the Brexit I voted for. 😉
What is the point you are trying to make?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
https://twitter.com/colinbrowning14/...450425344?s=21Quote:
Originally Posted by Slavers
Haha topical 😂😂Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Whoosh 😁Quote:
Originally Posted by Slavers
👍😁Quote:
Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby
So, we are moving to a points based immigration policy. Does that mean that wages will have to increase to meet the shortfall of workers from overseas?
I can see real problems in areas like care homes.
The 8.5 million economically inactive 16-64 year olds in the UK will snap up the vacancies, providing they have no other options, like welfare benefits. Think that's the gist of the plan, isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataplana
I'd rather have foreign labour to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
It's a great chance for the Brexit voters amongst them who were concerned about foreign workers to step up to the plate and take up the jobs that's for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
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Watch this, it'll terrify you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataplana
https://youtu.be/bqo-7rtGwOU
The gist of the plan is to increase productivity by removing the free flow of cheap foreign labour and force companies to invest in machinery and automation instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
The UK’s productivity level has flat lined for years so as a general economic principle thats not a bad one. Higher productivity makes the nation richer. And neither is the desire to reduce the number of economically inactive members of your society a bad one. The reasons they are currently inactive will be many and varied of course but it doesn’t seem a ridiculous concept that at least some of them can be encouraged back into the workforce.
But as ever the devil is in the detail and of course the laws of unintended consequences will be prevalent...as soon as I see governments deciding what industries qualify for certain relaxing of conditions and others not I’m rather wary!
However listening to some companies complaining that they might not be viable because they no longer have a freely available pool of low cost, low skilled labour to prop up their business model does make me wonder if those really are business models that we want to be perpetuating anyway? Maybe if they need to start paying higher wages to attract employees then that might not be a bad thing?
Over 100000 vacancies in the care sector alone and 33000 of those 8.5 million not sick, studying or carers. You might even find most of them have retired early.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
ONS states that 1.87m of the economically inactive ‘would like a job’Quote:
Originally Posted by Killiehibbie
But absolutely millions of them don’t or won’t want one but as I said encouraging and supporting some of them into work or back into is not a bad policy in itself.
As for care sector vacancies, well it seems to me this sector has significant structural issues not least the endemic low pay throughout.
That’s not to say the new immigration policy will do anything to help and may well exacerbate the problems. But none the less the current set up doesn’t seem to be a panacea for it either.
Absolutely not ridiculous, but needs people who know WTF they're doing to implement it, which this government don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
I'd like to be a footballer. As much chance of that as that figure of 1.8m being serious about wanting to work the ****ty jobs that are out there, even for a much higher wage.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
You can get folk off the dole to pick raspberries or whatever but caring for the elderly is different. It takes a certain type of person to do it properly and with respect. I fear we're going to see many more stories of neglect and maltreatment from care homes in the future.
The challenge in the care sector is that it is labour-intensive, whether it is delivered in people's own homes or care homes. This is exacerbated year-on-year by people living longer and longer, whilst with basic care needs or long-term health conditions that require some form of support, sometimes several times a day.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
The sector doesn't pay well and it is not difficult to understand why many would rather choose to work in Tesco or B+Q or Dobbie's. Due to the nature of working with vulnerable people there is also a much greater degree of regulation of the workforce. For some, that is off-putting.
Throw in the addition that significant parts of Scotland (and the UK) are rural and remote and one can see why private sector providers simply don't see a profit in providing services. Local authorities should be the 'provider of last resort' and in some places choose to be an active provider. They, however, face and have faced significant cost pressures over recent years and their own sustainability has to be questioned.
Comparing the levels of financial reserves held by councils today, as opposed to five -eight years ago would be stark.
Also, because councils essentially have to prioritise social care and education over everything else, their share of the council budget has had to increase, which is why a lot of other council services have been shrunk or disappeared - the care and education slice of the pie has grown bigger and bigger. But the services that have been shrunk, often in their own ways, were services which helped prevent or delay people needing more formal care.
Maybe time for compulsory insurance to cover care costs in old age?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
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My longstanding view is that it needs a proper inquiry, along the lines of the Royal Commissions we had in the 1970s, that really got into the heart of matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Your point about compulsory contributions is a fascinating topic that I am not getting into tonight because I am going to bed :-) but I will make one point.
That sort of proposal, out of both pragmatism and a desire to address inequality, invariably involves a cut-off or tapering whereby those with assets beyond a certain level have to use them. Given this country (and I mean the UK or Scotland) is so wedded to the notion of property and passing it onto their children then I am not sure how it could be sold to the public at large.
Not sure what thread is best, but has Priti Patel been mentioned? The most hypocritical selfish **** in British politics. Her own ****ing parents wouldn’t be allowed in this country with the new proposed laws but yet she still backs them. She’s a rat.
It’s similar to getting into a high end nightclub with a T-shirt and trainers the complaining the person behind you got in wearing the same style.
I can understand why people are attached to their property, because it doesn’t always reflect the size of their income throughout their life but also their choices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
Back in the mid 80’s when I was an apprentice I worked with a couple of joiners who had worked together for about 15 years. They both made exactly the same money but were in very different situations at about 35 years of age. One was on his fourth house after buying his first house and renovating them selling for bigger every time. He had not been many holidays over the years but wasn’t that bothered and was chuffed with his house. The other lived in his council house and intended to continue doing so. He was always going pretty good holiday (for the mid 80’s) and he also sounded like he had a better social life. Two guys making different decisions and neither right or wrong in my opinion but I can imagine that as they are probably (no idea what they are up to now) hitting retirement I could see why the one who bought the property would be p’ed off if his house had to be sold to pay for his care costs while the other guy got the same care costs for free.
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I recommend reading her contribution to ‘Britannia Unchained’ it’ll give you some idea of what level of ****bag this little **** actually is.Quote:
Originally Posted by HibernianJK
Dominic Raab contributed to it as well but he’s just not very bright.
For the reasons you mention, this is going to be a very tough problem to fix and it's not that I don't have sympathy for the guy who "did the right thing".Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Say for example the guy who lived the high life and lived in the council house reaches 65 and drops dead having never spent a day in hospital in his life or taken any medication. Over a lifetime, he's probably paid more than enough in tax to cover what he has received. Then imagine the other guy having several operations throughout his 50s, being on medication every day from 60, reaching about 85 where he has to go into a home but as his dementia develops his heart and lungs are strong so he hangs on needing significantly expensive resident care for more than a decade.
The nation needs to have a serious conversation about how we pay for the increasing numbers of people who are falling into the latter category. This care has to be paid for by someone and it is a significant cost (especially now we've got our country back delivering fairer wages for British workers to have British hands to wipe British *****).
I don't have the answer and I accept that in your example it appears totally unfair on those who have been responsible. You have to accept the consequences of your actions though, and you have to accept that occasionally you are only a quirk of government away from your hard work and good decisions being wiped out.
The politicians alone cannot be trusted to fix this, and MA's idea is an excellent one. I'm convinced there is plenty to go round in this country (and throughout the world) but we're struggling to make it happen right now and we're being forced to think that constitutional change, or reducing immigration, or taxing the rich etc etc is the answer to all of our questions. We need to think about it at a higher level and people can then plan accordingly.
And Liz Truss and Kwasi Karteng. I suspect we'll look back in 20 years at the wasteland these idiots create in the same way people in the 40s and 50s revisited Mein Kampf* and realised all that stuff about lebensraum wasn't just idle nonsense after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colr
* yeah, yeah, Godwin's law, yadda yadda.
These books are well worth a look when they come out. The LibDems orange book showed the thinking that led them to the coalition whereas Labour’s Purple Book was a lacklustre as their post-Blair preformance.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Is there not a way of “gifting” your house to your kids and then living in perpetuity rent free? That way when you get old and senile there is no property to be forced to sell?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
J
I think there's meant to be procedures in place to stop that happening or else the local authority would consider that house part of your estate for care costs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
I could be wrong, but a brief Google suggests you'd have to be quite above board with how you went about passing your property on as any attempt to do so purely to avoid social care costs isn't allowed.
I think the only option would be for you to pay the market rate in rent, presumably something which would only really be an option if you could release the cash by selling your house to your child at its full value. :dunno:
Is that not what the NHS is in part? Its really all about funding. It’s almost as if National insurance isn’t covering this cost and needs to be increased across the board to cover it. Both people in Ozzys scenario would then pay similar amounts and receive similar benefits. Everyone would. There if you need it. There isn’t a political will to make I happen in any party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
Good post. Similarly, the wringing of hands over the care industry not being able to survive without cheap foreign labour rather belies the low priority society has tended to put on social care. I'm prepared to go along with the Tories if they are genuine in an attempt to upgrade the whole sector.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
Could "if" do any more heavy lifting in this sentence?Quote:
Originally Posted by heretoday
" … they are genuine … " has already broken its back.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
The foreign labour is preferable to someone with a sense of entitlement who won't pull their weight. This is a recurring theme, people born into the benefits culture here don't want the work.Quote:
Originally Posted by heretoday
Fingers crossed!Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
The NHS takes care of the “health” part, but I don’t think we, as a population, have got our heads around the complexities and expense involved in the elderly care part. We all (the royal we) expect that to be taken care of by somebody else whilst we pass on property worth a fortune to our relatives.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlex
It all needs paid for, and we will vote in numbers for those who continue to promise that it will be paid for by someone else.
As I say, I don’t have the answers, but I think we - as a nation - need to acknowledge a problem and have an adult discussion about it.
Bizarrely, it is the only thing proposed by UKIP and the Brexit Party that I have ever agreed with.
lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by heretoday
It’s just not likely that the politicians will actually deal with the subject though...too easy just to forever kick the can down the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
Look at what happened to the Tories when they tried to float a plan with May. Immediate claims of dementia tax etc even although her plan was actually a cap on what people would pay rather than the current situation (down south) where there in no limit until the house is sold and the cupboard is as good as bare.
In Scotland we seem to have punted the problem to local government who appear to be struggling big time (another big increase in council tax, this time the maximum allowed)
I’ve posted before about Baumol’s cost disease and we see it in action year after year, compounded by the demographic effect. But still the issue is kicked down the road.
There is of course some real issues around making people pay and the prospect of those that work hard and save being hammered for their savings when those that do the opposite get care anyway being balanced against the need to make sure everyone is looked after no matter their financial well being.
I’m minded to think some sort of mandatory insurance policy approach might work but any answer is always going to be difficult to implement and design correctly / fairly. Hence why, of course, the politicos stay well clear!
Some superb work being done in Dusseldorf today:-)
http://www.bta.bg/en/gallery/showImage/?image=6506323
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status...809838080?s=20
The UK's negotiating mandate not going down well with business groups.
Scary stuff. To think that people in positions close to power are coming out with stuff like this...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...P=share_btn_fb
[QUOTE=JeMeSouviens;6090321]And Liz Truss and Kwasi Karteng. I suspect we'll look back in 20 years at the wasteland these idiots create in the same way people in the 40s and 50s revisited Mein Kampf* and realised all that stuff about lebensraum wasn't just idle nonsense after all.
Couldnt agree more. The most morally bankrupt and dishonest govt in British political history. History will not look kindly on them. Pity so many folk fell for the con.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Peston/st...51404129398785
Some info on the value of this potential trade deal with the US, the value being talked about basically sums to a "rounding error" in relation to the size of the UK economy.
Then you have the potential loss in GDP that may come with a piss poor deal with the EU and the words creek and no paddle spring to mind..
Will be interesting to see the political fall out in Scotland with this given the numbers of fisherman who were pro Leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Brexits done, close thread?
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We don't leave until the end of the year, actual 'Brexit' has only just started and will go on until we actually seperate from the EU. How I see it anyways....Quote:
Originally Posted by Callum_62
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Good job we’re getting rid of all those people immigrant nurses and doctors from the bloody EU!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Alf
Indeed!Quote:
Originally Posted by Colr
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51762243
Worth every penny...
But Boris said..... [emoji57]Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Alf
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Bound to be true then, he's a lot less visible now that he's got Brexit done. I guess it's because things are running much better now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Callum_62
The £350m a week for the NHS couldn't have come at a better time.
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Neil Dickson of the NHS on Newsnight just now saying that shortages of masks for staff to use in the coronavirus crisis have been slightly alleviated by getting masks which were stockpiled for a No-Deal Brexit. Why would an excess of masks be needed for Brexit? Is there something we haven't been told? Shocked if so.
Probably supply chain issues rather than a no deal virus breaking out :greengrin.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
After this recession which I think we will recover from pretty quickly once lock down finishes and we all get back to work, I wonder what appetite the public will have for another one at the turn of the year if we don’t get a brexit deal?
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Though some government lickspittle was on the radiobox the other day saying that one of the main reasons for the current shortage was that most of that type of equipment comes from China, who've been a bit hampered recently. As we know UK will have an utterly brilliant deal with China as soon as we've fully left the EU. Shirley, then, there would be no need to stockpile goods coming from China in preparation for Brexit? Sometimes it seems almost as if not all government messaging quite adds up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankhfc
I got cornered by a guy in the pub last summer and he was wittering on about how he thought Brexit presented serious risks. I put it down to him just being a no-pals drunken slaver, but if what you're saying here is correct then maybe he was on to something?Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics...mpression=true
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Johnson is a pathological liar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Callum_62
I work for NHS and know for a fact there are warehouses in UK stockpiled with medicine. Clearly not PPE though.
Dogged, isn't he? :greengrin
https://twitter.com/DavidDavisMP/sta...76382094544896
:faf: What a card!Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
That's the immigration bill passed ending freedom of movement. I feel sad.
Why did the chlorinated chicken cross the Atlantic? To get to UK supermarkets.
Despite every Tory Brexit politician claiming that Brexit won't result in lower food standards and "We'll never allow chlorinated chicken here", today the Government quietly rolled over and allowed the US the right to sell chlorinated chicken and hormone fed beef in UK shops. Thanks Brexit peeps.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9548431.html
Quote:
The government is set to open British markets to food produced to lower US welfare standards as part of its planned trade deal with Donald Trump. Downing Street on Thursday refused to stand by an earlier pledge to keep so-called "chlorinated chicken" off UK shelves, in the first sign of the government folding under pressure from American trade negotiators
Their 2019 manifesto pledged "not compromise on our high environmental protection, animal welfare and food standards".It would be embarrassing for Johnson not to get a trade deal with the US and he'll lie, cut standards and farmers thrown to the lions to achieve it.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Barnier ripping into UK saying we are backtracking in all aspects of the negotiations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Grieves
Yes, backtracking on agreements made in the political declaration with the EU while bending over and preparing to be shafted by the good ol' US of A.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
Yes, after you mentioned it I looked the manifesto up as well. I think we're in big, big trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Grieves
Thing is it will probably just be brushed off as remoaners being remoaners againQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
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