not one point after 30 mins in the 2nd half
penalty Italy 31-22 quite embarrassing 2nd half performance, Italy deserve this lead
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not one point after 30 mins in the 2nd half
penalty Italy 31-22 quite embarrassing 2nd half performance, Italy deserve this lead
bloddy heck vdm
Not been a huge Townsend fan and this lacklustre performance does nothing to change my mind on him, a real top coach makes these players even better, look at Farrell at Ireland.
Italy are very good but Scotland are Scotland.
at last Scotland try with easy con to come 31-29
2 mins+ need that ball down the other end and hope for the penalty
*****
poor pass from kinghorn and that's that, well deserved win for the Italians, long time since i've saw a Scotland performance like that
a weekend double over Scotland, Italian Rugby progressing
Poor 30 plus minutes there from Scotland.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
Poor tactics and poor second half showing.
Gregor get your bags packed and **** off back to pail land. You have constantly failed when it matters.
still got a hammering in Ireland to come
first home win for Italy in the six nations for 11 years
well done Scotland
the manner of that defeat was absolutely awful, i'm not sure we can blame townsend too much for the players performance
Scotland should have had enough about them to win but yes Italy are much improved and ended up deserved winners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
Great game at Twickenham so far, 8-6 England.
8-12 half time.
Was it a genuine knock on in the last play in Rome? Didn’t see one. Also thought the Italy player should had got yellow
England beat Ireland. So annoying Scotland lost as there would have been the championship to play for next week.
Brilliant from England to win the game.
We had our chances today in Rome and were found out wanting again when the pressure was on.
Oh next weeks game in Dublin could have been so so different.
On a side note I think some of the officiating has been horrendous this championship. Big calls called wrongly.
ireland got what they deserved there i was amazed instead of holding on to the ball they kicked out to touch with just over a minute remaining, if i could have been bothered getting to the PC quicker i would have put a few quid on England getting at least a penalty to win it
still chin up ireland you have a very easy task next weekend
just waiting on Wales +6 tomorrow for the rugby weekend treble bet up
next season
Round 1
31 January
France v Wales (20:15)
1 February
Scotland v Italy (14:15)....... very early prediction, loser favourite for the wooden spoon :agree:
Ireland v England (16:45)
Round 2
8 February
Italy v Wales (14:15)
England v France (16:45)
9 February
Scotland v Ireland (15:00)
Round 3
22 February
Wales v Ireland (14:15)
England v Scotland (16:45)
23 February
Italy v France (15:00)
Round 4
8 March
Ireland v France (14:15)
Scotland v Wales (16:45)
9 March
England v Italy (15:00)
Round 5
16 March
Italy v Ireland (14:15)
Wales v England (16:45)
France v Scotland (20:00)
1st & 8th of February, that'll be two home games for Hibs then huh :hmmm:
Yes nightmareQuote:
Originally Posted by Scorrie
We can still win it, no? Like, insane outside chance, but a BP win in Dublin wins it, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorrie
Yep, could have been going for the Grand Slam too had that try against France been allowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorrie
Deserved win for England incidentally.
I’m pretty gutted going to be honest.
Time for change I reckon? Toonie needs to go.
It does you’re right but could’ve been a lot simpler !Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylar
Scotland lack a character to hold everyone together and maintain the discipline. They gave away too many penalties.
Why is it when England win at rugby all the papers basically have full colour supplements and it feels like a national holiday will be called? ‘A game for the ages’. FFS. Why wasnt the previous umpteen times Ireland beat them similarly described? :faf:
Utter nonsenseQuote:
Originally Posted by Scottie
Ball went backwards. Should have been "play on" and VDM had possession. Huge gaff from the ref to then blow for time. Another one.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
Explain then why it’s utter nonsense!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
It’s really not. He has the best generation of players and had failed to win anything. We have gone sideways and with yesterday’s result, have gone backwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
Time for change as if we don’t then we will continue to tread water.
That's what I thought and was a bit out of kilter from how he reffed knocks ons as he was lenient earlier in the game. The penalty count for second half would be interesting however Italy were good though Scotland performance second half was poor and defensively looked all over the shop. Lynagh try he had so much space did we actually play with a full back. A sore one especially with England winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
So none of that yesterday was on the players. Think we have been good this six nations however no doubt we play in spells. Were absolutely cheated v France also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcbizz1998
Harsh :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Scottie
Players shoulder some of the responsibility of course but the fact of the matter is this group have the talent to win something but manage to fail when it matters. That is ultimately the fault of the head coach. I can’t believe that someone like Joe Schmidt or Gatland wouldn’t have done better. We need better before the chance for this group is gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
Kinghorn had a poor match, the Italian try where they cut through the middle of our back line round about our 22, Kinghorn was miles out of position, I’ve no idea why he was lined up between our outside centre and wing when we were defending, madness
No really Jim have you ever been to Gala :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
If Wales v France continues like this then - We are going to either end up behind Ireland, England and (somehow) Wales or we are going to hand England the championship next weekend.
It’s difficult to put into words what an unmitigated disaster yesterday was. Probably the worst of the Townsend era, maybe even worse than the Japan loss at RWC 2019?!
Good game for the neutrals in Cardiff.
Yesterday's loss, as with other losses over the last few seasons, was not Townsend's fault. Let down by those on the park.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottie
The only thing I'd question, with hindsight, was not involving White yesterday. Price is past it.
Maybe you'd prefer Gatlandball to try and grind out wins?
Yes was at Uni there 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottie
Ya poor bugger. Did they supply you wi portiloos :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
Hope you enjoyed your time there. The good people of Gala are certainly an odd bunch but I guess aren't we all to a degree :aok:
Would you not question why his team consistently gives away penalty after penalty with indiscipline. Was it 27 penalties in a row in the second half in Cardiff followed by straight 8 yesterday against Italy ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
This is where top notch coaches earn their corn. You don't see teams like SA, New Zealand & Ireland giving away those ridiculous numbers of penalties. This is because their coaches can see when things need changing by getting instructions onto the players quicker. GT sits there at these crucial moments and does nothing.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over again and expecting different results. ( Gregor Townsend in a nutshell ) for me.
Yes had a great time. Guid auld Gala. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Scottie
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/18...ace-to-live-ukQuote:
Originally Posted by Scottie
Two years running, voted the happiest place to live in Scotland.
Something in the water?
Totally agree indiscipline cost us. But whose fault is that? Elite professional players don't need to be reminded during a game by their coach not to give a way silly penalties. If anything, if such a reminder is required, that is a job for the captain on the field of play. That's not to say Gregor is not communicating and getting messages onto the park when required. Don't base your allegation of Gregor's non-communication on two or three fleeting tv shots of him in the coaches' box.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottie
You clearly don't rate him. I do.
I was unfortunate enough to play against Gregor right through school to youth level and let me tell you he was a very very special player. We were on many a beatings from him & his teams at 15s & 7s. You couldn’t get anywhere near him. His brain was what felt like minutes not seconds before ours. Even played him regularly at golf over Ladhope & Tordwardlee and again he was that much better than most of us. He was a great golfer also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
I do rate him very highly but when you make the same mistakes every other test match questions need to be asked about your head coach and his assistants as well as the players. Test rugby is fine margins now and anyone can beat anyone on a chosen day so you can’t be continually throwing away leads through poor decisions on & off the field.
Of coarse These are not allegations I’ve made but observations :greengrin
Dont take it to heart mate we can have different opinions & still get on :hug:
Yes sewage :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
That's beyond the pail that comment. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottie
Yip, which often accounted for some of his "errors" as a player because his teammates, even at International level, just weren't on the same wavelength.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottie
His game analysis as a player always signposted him as a potential top notch coach and that's what he is.
four game tour of the Americas
Sat July 6th: Canada v Scotland, TD place, Ottawa
Friday July 12th, USA v Scotland, Audi Field, Washington DC
Sat July 20th; Chile v Scotland, Estadio Nacional, Santiago
Sat July 27th: Uruguay v Scotland, Estadio Charrua, Montevideo
maybe make amends for that shocking defeat against USA in Houston six years ago 30-29
Italy hold on for the win in Cardiff 24-21, five defeats for Wales and first wooden spoon for 21 years
Italy stop the run of eight straight wooden spoons
More amateur stuff from Townsends Scotland
Surely see the back of him after this.
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he's not got control of that
they desperately wanted to give them it though :greengrin inc the co-commentator
still 10-6
fgs do the basics
valiant defensive effort
just can't get out
Kinghorn gives it away ffs
advantage after advantage
someone had to go to the sin-bin, Ashman
followed by the try
all the way back from the irish half and a poor offload by kinghorn
So many examples tonight of the difference in quality.
woohoo Try :thumbsup: con good 17-13
17-18 would be lovely ;)
well that knock-on knocks that on the head :rolleyes: FT 17-13
just pleased it wasn't the hammering i fully expected
Only 2 wins though, pretty poor. That may be it for Townsend
Not convinced at all that Porters try should have be given, considering the buggering about over the grounding for the previous penalty.
biggest smile probably went to the Irish TMO that screwed Scotland in the game v France, free Guinness for him for a while i would think
Excellent defensive performance today from the boys just that little bit short again. Ireland put the foot to the floor in the first 20 minutes of the second half and that ultimately was the difference.
If Townsend is to continue in his post he needs to find a way to turn these 1-4 point deficits into wins & to bring through youth as we are severely lacking there unfortunately.
elsewhere WRU Chief Executive Abi Tierney turns down Warren Gatlands resignation offer
:agree: it was even less a try than the first one. Looked like the ref was going to give it regardless, he didnt have a clear view either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
4th behind a terrible England side.
Really poor campaign all things considered. Townsends position really should be under consideration.
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Yep. Just because you power over the line at speed doesn't mean it's always a try. Absolutely no way the ref could see the "grounding", and on one (brief) replay it looked like there was a hand under the ball. Scotland done again by a bad ref decision. But for that, the France "no try" call, and the ref blowing for time in Rome when there was clearly no knock-on, then Scotland could have been 5 from 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
Nonsense. Hugely unlucky with the results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Jimmy
It doesn't matter who the coach is if the players can't do the basics, the first try yesterday was shocking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
The Irish co-commentator gets the prize for biggest hypocrite. Throughout the match was asking for every decision for Ireland, then when Scott Hastings commented saying he didn’t think the disallowed try was grounded, the Irish guy immediately snaps ‘of course you don’t’.
He was almost as bad as Jonathan Davies is for the Welsh on bbc
Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
The ref gave the try from behind the Irish players, who had piled in with the ball carrier, must have been at lest 6 bodies between the ref and the ball, yet he blew up instantly for the try. He had less of a view than the one prior that was eventually proven to be held up, to which he claimed he lost sight of.
How long is it bad luck?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
We're often under prepared. We play one half or often play well for 10 mins and look awful the rest. We never win big games.
You can blame refs (and I don't think they've been up to anything) as much as you want. Townsend has taken scotland as far as he can.
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Im not the most knowledgeable, but ive watched every game this campaign and we deserved to beat France and did beat England, the teams immediately above us in the table. The only team clearly better than us in the northern hemisphere is Ireland, who are having the best success of their entire history in the sport! So he must be doing something right surely?Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Jimmy
We didn't beat France.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
We failed to beat Italy
We scraped a win after being up 27 points on Wales.
We were unlucky with the decision against France. I accept that.
He's done a lot right. However, he's taken us as far as he can. Yet again it's a 4th place finish.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Jimmy
There’s a lot to be positive about, when we are switched on, we are excellent at attacking, our broken play attacks are outstanding generally, when we need to we can dig in in defence and shut a team out.
However, we also have frequent lapses in concentration and execution, we are prone to periods of conceding penalty after penalty, and we rarely play for 80+ minutes.
I wonder if the answer may be to bring in assistant coaches to address the shortcomings, whilst still maintaining GT’s positive aspects - or finding a top class coach who will take this team on and push into the next level
I think it's time to move on. He's brought in different coaches and he's tried various players in different roles. I just think it's time to try a new voice.Quote:
Originally Posted by McD
We've under achieved with this squad. 1999 is a long time ago. Worryingly, the future doesn't look bright with the 20s. We're relying on more and more foreign born players.
The games not in a great condition in Scotland.
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We have one already.Quote:
Originally Posted by McD
Who is on your long list of better top class coaches who have a proven record at International level? Or do you want to take a gamble on an inexperienced coach with potential who can talk a good game at an interview, as Hibs have done more times than we all care to remember these last few years?
That's one thing you've said that I won't disagree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Jimmy
Knowledgeable enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
Yes fine margins and competitive in every gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
Totally agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
You can't blame refs? We were cheated out of a winning try v France where there was clear footage showing the grounding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Jimmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
Easy, I was asking a question, I didn’t advocate for moving on or for keeping Townsend, and I’m still not doing either.
As others have said, there are a number of problems with rugby in Scotland, the lack of success at senior international level is just one. We have had the best group of players in a long time over the last 5 or so years, but have continually struggled to take the next step in achieving something tangible. I don’t think it’s unreasonable that a conversation about the coaching and leadership of that group happens. You feel differently, fair enough
England aren't terrible. They beat Ireland and were unlucky not to beat France. As Italy have shown, there's less between most of the sides now. Had we been awarded the try we should have been against France we'd have been right in the mix.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Jimmy
Not every time.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
The France game was disgraceful. However, prior to that it was a pathetic game of rugby.
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I thought this report has some good analysis. 10 of the 15 games having points decided by 4 points or fewer is a good stat as testament to how close it all was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Jimmy
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/mar/18/six-nations-rugby-union-ireland-france-england-scotland-wales-italy
# Team Points 1 South Africa 94.54 2 Ireland 90.69 3 New Zealand 89.80 4 France 87.92 (+0.60) 5 England 85.75 (-0.60) 6 Scotland 82.82 7 Argentina 80.68 8 (↑9) Italy 79.41 (+1.36) 9 (↑10) Australia 77.48 10 (↓8) Wales 77.26 (-1.36) 11 Fiji 76.38 12 Japan 74.27 13 Georgia 74.02 (+1.34) 14 Samoa 72.23 15 (↑16) Tonga 71.57 16 (↓15) Portugal 70.28 (-1.34) 17 USA 67.94 18 Uruguay 67.39 19 Spain 64.37 (+0.91) 20 Romania 61.66 (-0.91)
Autumn nations fixtures starting in Nov..
v Fiji
v South Africa
v Portugal
v Australia
So post 6NC, if a Lions squad was being picked now, which Scots would make it?
In my eyes:
DEFINITES
Kinghorn as a utility back with his versatility to cover 15, 11, 10
VDM
Tuipoluto
Russell
Turner
PROBABLE
Jones
Z Fagerson
POSSIBLE
White
Schooo
Dempsey/Christie
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJBVL4aX...jpg&name=small
On March 19th 1938, 83 years ago, the BBC broadcast the first ‘Six Nations’ game in which Scotland, captained by Wilson Shaw, beat Herbert Toft’s English side 21-16.
Then known as the Home Nations Championships, before France and Italy made it the Six Nations, Scotland were poised to win the Calcutta Cup and Triple Crown along with the trophy.
And whilst the audience was limited, with under 10,000 television sets in the UK and transmission confined to London, it caused a landslide of sporting firsts.
FinnQuote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
Jones
Toup
VDM
White
Zander Fagerson
Not sure they will but they'd be my picks. Ben White is outstanding.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68609875
Following on from the thread on the main forum about law changes folk would like to see in football, what's the one change you'd like to see introduced in rugby?
For me it's the laws around the "use it" call at rucks - with the purpose of speeding things up.
The ref to call "use it" as soon as the ball is visible and playable; once called, no-one else (from either side) can join the ruck; referee the 5-second use time strictly, or reduce it to 3-seconds if refs are going to continue to be lenient on the count.
Doing this would not only make rucks quicker, but also more competitive, with counter rucking becoming more of an opportunity to regain possession, or at least disrupt your opponents, rather than not committing players to a ruck, and just letting the opposition take their time to set themselves for a kick from the often double-extended base.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
Interesting post, I like your change.
I think I would change scrum penalties to free kicks. It feels in certain situations that teams aren’t actually trying to restart the game, but just trying to get the ref to give a penalty, which can take minutes off the clock, and be boring to watch. The free kick still gives a team the opportunity to get things going again.
Yeah that's super frustrating. I'd go as far as to rule that you can't have more than 1 "layer" of players from either side in the ruck, so no binding onto a player in front of you from your own team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
I'm not a forward so I've no idea if this would work or not.
Also, get rid of the "dupont law" and make the kick chase team retreat until the kicker or someone who was behind the kicker is past them before they can engage the receiving team. This 5m or 5 steps stuff is silly and just means the kick chase team don't have to make any effort to retreat and gives too much of an advantage to the kicking team.
Advantage. It goes on far too long
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It does, and very often the defending side gives away another penalty to stop the “free ball” attack. I’d make it an automatic yellow card for any penalty offence during the playing of advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Jimmy
I agree that's an issue, but I'm not sure more yellow cards is the answer tbh. I don't know what is correct for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeard
Maybe, once you move the ball x yards it's over or x number of passes. As it is you have teams having endless time to score then pulled back for a penalty. Double advantage.
Maybe for the penalty within advantage move the penalty forward 10 yards or something.
Either way, you're right, both need looked at.
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flicked over to see the HT score between Glasgow and Cardiff, 13-0 Cardiff
FT 17-13 not a very good Glasgow line-out tonight
Sam Whitelock retiring in june, great career he's had and New Zealand's most capped player played in a few great all-black sides
The Crusaders beaten again this morning, they've been absolutely awful this season , the departure of Scott Robertson to the ABs jobs seems to have been a big loss
went to make a 10-min phone call with Edinburgh getting beat by scarlets 17-18 came back and it was 38-18 :greengrin FT 43-18
Ospreys unfortunately got a great result @ Stormers winning 27-21
Glasgow 2nd top behind Leinster
Scottish women put another bad record right this season by winning for the first time in Italy for 25 years 17-10,along with winning in Wales for the first time in 20 years
England beat Ireland 88-10
Scotland 3rd two points ahead of Ireland and Italy, huge incentive to beat Ireland next week as 3rd joins England and France at the 2025 WC in England
unfortunately it's another away game, the two home games were against the top two :(
Edinburgh just about staying in the hunt for a top 8 place here. Lacklustre at times against Zebre but comfortable in the end.
Tough one for Glasgow today as they start their SA tour. Hopefully they can hold on to top spot!