So was iQuote:
Originally Posted by Waxy
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So was iQuote:
Originally Posted by Waxy
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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby
That’s good, very creative 😄
Iurie Iovu's in the airQuote:
Originally Posted by 04Sauzee
Cherki completes City move.
On talent,Porteous would be a good move, but he needs to come back with a better attitude regards responsibility and teamwork. No more pissing about with risky passes at the back. If he could bring that to the team brilliant, but our top target for defence has to be resigning Bushiri.
If we are serious about developing as a threat in this league, we need to bolster our team.
I shiver when I think of what the development team money could have put on the park if we had went that way.
The way the young teams are going is the model we should be sticking to.
Apologies, unpacked a lot more than I planned to.
Fraser Murray signs for Wigan. Great move for him.
Rocky followed by IredaleQuote:
Originally Posted by PortoHSC
Porto needs to cut out the errors stop taking risky chances at the back change his Billy big time attitude and learn from his mistakes cut out the rash tackles and become more of a team player
Coming back under SDG might be the making of him as a legend he has the ability no doubt plus he is one of us
Porto Rocky and Iredale sounds good with Miller O’Hora and Ekpiteta fighting for their places with Europe looming injuries suspensions and squad rotation
Porteous would be one of the best centre halfs in the league if we can get him back.
Hi RyanQuote:
Originally Posted by PortoHSC
And third best at Hibs 😁Quote:
Originally Posted by Since90+2
The one season he played in a really decent Hibs team he was arguably the best central defender in the country never mind at the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain G
You’ll change your mind if he signs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain G
Cláudio Braga
Aalesund FK striker arrives in Edinburgh to meet with Tynecastle officials to finalise a move. ✍️
The 25 year old who bagged 14 goals & 9 assists for Aalesund FK is rumoured to be costing the Jambos in the region of £400k 💰⚽️
4th best? 😁Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Bunter 07
IMHO it is very Jambo-esque that we turn our noses up at a 26 YO player who has already achieved double figures in Scotland caps and who would add to our home-grown quantity.
Some of us forget the mistakes we have made at the back, including after the split, where we were far from being an impregnable fortress. If SDG and Co decide that Porto could do a job, I'm more than happy with that.
On the surface this looks like a good bit of business. That said I've never seen him play so hopefully he's not built for McInness ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Sauzee
Would seem like a lot of money for a player in the Norwegian second tier who’s not played above that level. Suppose the magic computer is there to uncover players they wouldn’t find otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Centre Hawf
What on earth is Jambo-esque about it? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_
He doesn’t get a game for Scotland anymore, got bombed out of Watford and couldn’t get a game at PNE. You would think it was Van Dijk people were turning their noses up at when in reality it’s a bottom half English Championship squad player who wasn’t short of problems last time he was here.
He was also one of the best defenders in the league for a decent period of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
He was desperately poor when he left us. He’s been poor at Watford, hence why they’re quite happy to get rid of him and he hasn’t even got a game at PNE. It’s been a good few years since he’s been playing really well consistently.Quote:
Originally Posted by flash
If he hadn’t played here before then I’m not convinced people would be gushing over him in the way they are.
So he has missed the boat, and that is the end for him and his Scotland career?Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
ON the same scenario as Van Dijk, all season we have shipped dreadful goals, including post-split. So we have some way to go before believing we are the finished article, even if Rocky stays.
As for the Jambo-esque, Triantis wasn't good enough for us last summer, nor was Nisbet, now it is Porteous. I don't think I need to add anymore.
He has played 76 games for Watford- basically 2 full seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
None of our current defence will ever reach that point.
I never said his Scotland career was finished, although it wouldn’t surprise me. His stupidity cost us big time at a national tournament.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_
Using the fact he has double figures of Scotland caps when he doesn’t get in the squad anymore though doesn’t really tell you much. The current version of Porteous is a poorer player than the one that was getting into Scotland squads previously.
I fully expect Rocky will comfortably manage that and more.Quote:
Originally Posted by flash
We shall see. I love Rocky but have my doubts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
If Porteous pulls out of the challenge against Germany, wouldn’t we have went 3-0 down anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
Compared to the £700k we paid for Vente from the same league, did we use the same magic computer.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
Ekpiteta also managed roughly the same amount of games over two seasons in the Championship.Quote:
Originally Posted by flash
It’s not exactly a level we’re unable to sign from.
Porteous is better than Rocky and Iredale, easily
The recency bias is mad on here
He’s really not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergus52
Porteous was a player that a huge portion of Hibs fans were quite happy to see the back of by the time he left.
If he was ‘easily’ a better player than those two he wouldn’t have been sitting in the bench every week for PNE in a relegation battle.
Your opinion is based on the total opposite of recency bias. Performances from years ago rather than performances now. Recent form is a hell of a better indicator of what you’ll get from a player than what they were delivering 4 years ago.
We would and he has been in several Scotland squads since then too.Quote:
Originally Posted by 500miles
We also went down to 10 men which ultimately made the chances of an absolute doing, which we ended up getting, infinitely higher. That meant our chances of qualifying diminished massively.Quote:
Originally Posted by 500miles
We lost less goals with 10 men than 11. We got a doing because we were levels beneath Germany in their own back yard, showpiece fixture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No we didn’t. We lost 3 with 10 men, 2 with 11.Quote:
Originally Posted by 500miles
Did you actually watch that game? It could have been 4 or 5 before the red card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
And yet it wasn’t. Because it’s much easier to keep the score down with 11 men on the pitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by flash
Is it no just possible that a player can lose their way a bit. We’ve seen it plenty times before. You don’t like him, that’s fairly obvious. But since he left us he’s made about a hundred appearances in the Championship and been a mainstay in a Scotland team that qualified for a tournament (I know he made a mistake once we got there).Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
There is plenty of evidence to suggest Porteous would improve us with a manager who could get the best out of him.
£400k isn't that bad for a 25 year old striker who has been fairly consistent at scoring since he started playing. But you're right the level he's at isn't the highest either.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
Ryan Porteous heavily linked up back to us. Never mind what has went on in the past. We need to look forward. Ever since the start of December we went from strength to strength. Porteous is the best centre half we have had come out the youth academy since the turn of the millennium. He's still a young guy with time to turn it around. I think it's a logical signing.
It’s absolutely possible a player can lose his way. Infact I’d suggest it’s fairly clear Porteous has, something which he done when he was here towards the end as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
He’s still not currently ‘easily’ a better player than Rocky or Iredale though, whether that’s because he’s lost his way or not. PNE bench warmer Porteous is in no way, shape or form ‘easily’ better than those two.
For me I’d rather be looking for players on the up, rather than pinning our hopes on a player who’s lost his way coming good again.
The penalty occurred with 11 men in the pitch, come on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am def more critical of Porto than some, maybe even most, on here, but he gets far too much stick for the Germany red card
His challenge after coming on against Greece recently on other hand does give me fear he's not progressed much since leaving us and might now be going backwards
If Malkay and Gray think we can get him back to his best though it's a no brainer with or without Rocky
What are you on about? Gundogan was tapping the ball into an empty net if Porto hadn't attempted to stop him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
That would have been 3-0 at half time against 11 men.
Surely you understand that.
Porto is well behind that pair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergus52
No, you presume that’s what he was going to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by flash
He was on the stretch, Porteous was still goal side of him. He still had a bit to do. It was pointed out at the time that the xG for the chance was significantly lower than the xG for the penalty.
The Porto from the season we finished 3rd?Quote:
Originally Posted by keep the faith
OK with that i am out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
Up until LJ we had the best defensive record in the league outside the OF for 3 seasons. Porto was heavily featured.Quote:
Originally Posted by flash
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Some of Hibs best signings of the last decade or so are players who have lost their way. Allan lost his way about 3 times before joining us and being a stellar player, Fraser Fyvie was a lost player after failing down south. Martin Boyle failed at Dundee. I don't think it's as simple as saying you can only sign players on the back of good seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
Porteous is a player at 26 years old who has both incredible amounts of career experience not just in Scotland but now in a very competitive division down south and has played against some top opposition for Scotland. Yet despite all that he still arguably has his best years ahead of him still as a defender. If you were to offer me ANY player with the CV of Ryan Porteous I think we would all jump at it.
I would agree that on current form he isn't 'easily' better than Rocky or Iredale but I don't think it's a choice of either of them or Porteous. The best case scenario would be he would come into RCB with they two, although I think it's sadly a case of a replacement for Rocky personally. If we're looking for a replacement centre back then I think we'd honestly struggle to do any better in this current market than Ryan Porteous.
I think Porteous would be a very good signing. Would love us to keep Rocky too but not sure if this is a one or the other arrangement. Concerns like anyone that he hasn't learned not to dive in and go in hard and reckless but think the positive attributes he brings outweigh those traits. Home grown international defender from the Chanpionship still to hit peak years - yes from me
The thing is if Porto career hadn't taken a drop there would be no realistic chance us getting him back. Only reason it's even possible is due to him dropping off the last 2 seasons.
I’d hardly say Iredale or Rocky were on the when they came in to the team last November or when they joined. We’re talking about a player who has played regularly in The Championship over the last 2 and a bit years so he’s hardly at rock bottom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
Yep, and mission 1 is win the first derby, with a clean sheetQuote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
Aye this is a good point. Iredale couldn’t get a game at League One Bolton but came here and was arguably POTY.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
And that was after, arguably, getting in to our team by default as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
I think we’ve seen that we have a manager who can find a way of getting the best out of players if they have good attributes. Porteous has loads of good attributes and experience as well.
Well done to him. Does he go down as a success story of recent years in terms of guys that have came through and went on to have decent careers at a good level? Probably? Who are the other candidates doesn't feel like there has been that many.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Bunter 07
Hope Porto comes back and gets another crack down southQuote:
Originally Posted by flash
They’re signing Findlay on a loan to buy deal . Who needs a computer
People don't like those type's of facts though.Quote:
Originally Posted by 500miles
They'd rather make up this imaginary thing about him apparently having a "bad attitude" even though he was very well liked within the squads he played in and still keeps in touch with many current/ex hibs players.
I'm confused as to why many are turning their nose up at him, people are making out as if PNE were chucking in goals left right and centre, that wasn't the case, themselves, Hull & Derby had conceded less goals than Coventry & Bristol City who both finished in a play off position, they all ended up bottom of the table and couldn't score to save themselves.
The less said about Watford the better, that club is an absolute basket case, more managers than hot food served on a Saturday afternoon, some of their fans complained about Joao Pedro leaving claiming "he was never good enough" for the PL.
Porteous improves us greatly and regardless of personal opinions, that is a fact.
Definitely a success story. Anyone that comes out of your academy and plays regular senior football is probably a success for the most part, even more so if they can go play in the Scottish Prem or top 3/4 leagues of England.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby's Cinema
Porteous at his best is comfortably as good as either Rocky or Iredale and probably significantly better. The question is whether we could get him back to his best - and improving.
Downsides for me - questionable judgement and temperament at times, slightly risky signing in terms of direction of career and performance and referees just LOVE to book him up here.
Upsides - unquestionably plays for the jersey, potential to be an absolute steal of a signing, on his game would be a pretty seamless replacement for Rocky should we lose him, requires next to no settling in time in terms of the club, Edinburgh and the Scottish game. And he's a Scotland internationalist, so there's clearly quality there.
VAR decision: sign him.
Some of our best players in recent times have been returnees after being good in Scotland then struggled in England.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
Scott Allan and Fraser Fyvie are two examples
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Porteous would be a great addition to our squad. Let’s get it done Hibs.
Except it isn't, it's a personal opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatdayinmay16
If you said Virgil Van Dyke was joining us, that might be pretty undisputable.
There's more to football than a players innate abilities. Temperament, attitude and impact on teammates, treatment from officialdom and media all matter.
Porteous comes with a lot of baggage around his capacity to focus on playing football. Can this really be so confusing when it's been repeated so many times?
If he comes back I'll be pleased, but also have reservations.
Genuine question - when you say "at his best" what period would you classify his best? He had some very good games for us (not watched any of him whilst down south) but his problem was consistency and temperament - he was capable of a 9 or 9.5 out of 10 and next week could be 5 or 6). For me Iredale is consistently 7.5-8.0. Rocky as well for the last few months has been remarkably consistent and for me would average a 8.0-8.5 I am not sure I have seen that level of consistency in Porteous. When you look at how poor Scotland have been defensively he should be knocking that door down. Appreciate the media did a number on him for the Euro's as it was blown out of all proportion but if he was performing at a consistent level for whatever club he should have been in the squad pushing for a start.Quote:
Originally Posted by One Day Soon
Porto has a high ceiling and a low floor. Bad day Porto, bad moment Porto can be pretty poor. Iredale to name one hasn’t had many poor moments.Quote:
Originally Posted by One Day Soon
Gray though has already demonstrated an ability to improve players. Exactly what I said about Porto above could have been said about Rocky and within a season, Gray has helped turn Rocky in a squad player who we might start if we overlook his rough edges in an indispensable starter, the cornerstone of our defence.
Porto always frustrated me but that’s because I actually really rated him, I’ve always thought he’s capable of playing at his best more consistently. He’s also now reaching a great age for a defender.
Outrageous claim alert - if we signed Porteous and kept Rocky, Rangers and Celtic would be doing well to put together a back line better than Iredale, Rocky and Porto, especially if Celtic lose Carter-Vickers.
I’d be disappointed if Porto or Rocky joined Celtic or Rangers as I think both would do very well for them.
I do and don’t agree with your last point in if we got back a mature Porteous that has the head screwed on who learnt to cut out the daft things he was doing as a young lad like lunging in on tackles he can’t possibly win then yes it probably would in the current market be hard to get a better player , certainly has the ability to be a top player at us …Quote:
Originally Posted by Centre Hawf
Though if we got the one we had the last few months before he left I don’t think he’d be any great asset to the club and could end up being quite the opposite . What I mean by that is there is a good togetherness in this squad now and the one thing that we don’t need is a player bawling at other players when he makes a mistake himself. Honestly thought Porteous antics was shocking before he left quite frankly and i think some fans have (myself included) very valid reasons to be concerned over which version of Ryan Porteous we’d get , personally really hope we can persuade Rocky to stay who is much less a risk on and off the field….
https://wfcforums.com/index.php?thre...orteous.61308/
https://x.com/louorns/status/1892178981694099572
They have been. Some of our worst have also been those types - Demi Mitchell, James Scott, Kris Humphrey’s, Emerson Hyndman who had all been good up here then went down south, lost their way and failed at us.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertK86
Ultimately each player needs to be taken on their own merit rather than compared with players who have followed a similar path before as there’s examples of successes and failures.
If Porteous comes back and we get the best version of him then he’d be a good signing. I’m not convinced that version will be the one we get though as it’s been about 3 or 4 years since he’s consistently delivered it.
He does improve us though, regardless of how you look at it, up until LJ had walked in the door, Ryan was apart of a hibs side that had conceded the least amount of goals outside of the old firm for 2 season if I am not mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfurryhibby
Absolutely no disputing his performances dropped in the months leading up to his departure.
If you're suggesting to me he isn't a greater option than Warren O'Hora or Lewis Miller at RCB then your mistaken.
If it works wage wise all round and is just a money back deal to Watford , no more, then worth a go on Porto! Hoping Bushiri stays for some more at least, although Ekpiteta might be OK. Ohora NO. So for Porto it's a Go, Defo
What an exhausting last couple pages.
I trust Gray to get the best out of Porteous should he sign.
It’s ever so easy to look at the negatives when it comes to players and ignore all the positives.
Do you go searching online for reasons not to sign all players we’re linked with, or just when they’re guys who came through our youth system, and who went on to play at a higher level? It’s just weird.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby
I’m no even sure what the second link is meant to tell me? Cos based on that graph he’s done better than Esteve at Burnley who’s being linked with huge money transfers just now.
& Mason Holgate, who funnily enough has played over 100 games in the Premier League under a certain Carlo Ancelotti and was heavily linked with a move away at said stage of his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by easty
Think it is that simple. Same goes for any signing we make this summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaulGoodman
This Braga guy has a 1 in 3 record at that level at 25 years old. We paid similar money for 18 year old Melkersen who had scored 17 or 18 in 25 games the prior season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Centre Hawf
Time will tell but so far Jamestown seems to be feeding Hearts Norwegian journeyman for silly prices. Between this boy, Kartum and the right back they're signing.
They'll lap it up of course.
According to reports, Sunderland preparing a £10m bid for Lennon Miller
He is going to be a superstar.Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Sauzee
What does that tell us about how they might value Triantis..Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Sauzee
That'll be Triantis defo leaving the mackems then - which I think we all knew anyway. Just hope it's to us.Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Sauzee
Good on well of they get a fee like that. That unreal money for a scottish club, old firm included.Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Sauzee
Villa absolutely shafted us with 2.5m for McGinn.Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Sauzee
In a market that for years has seen young Scottish talent snapped up for absolute peanuts, not least from us, that's some serious money. I hope it happens, because it sets the bar far higher than it's been and it's something else for clubs outside of the Uglies to point to when English clubs offer £500,000 for a guy that if he was playing in EFL1 would go for £2,000,000Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Sauzee
Not really though I am interested in when we are linked with players to see what the current clubs that own them fans opinions are on them . I have done it with Xavier Simons , Smith and most other players too . Recently the two players that’s been mentioned on here have been two ex-players in Nisbet and Porteous who some of us aren’t overly keen on seeing back due to issues we had with them before so I just checked on both their club’s forums and the fans comments have mainly been negative which there isn’t a lot I can do about .Quote:
Originally Posted by easty
The reason I posted the comments from the Watford fans is it’s been said a few times on here that maybe Porteous has matured and cut out the stupid stuff , just thought it was interesting that the Watford fans don’t appear to think he has easty .. that’s all .
I know I’m in the wrong, I simply must be given what everyone else is saying, so don’t come at me about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by flash
I’ve just never been blown away by him whenever I’ve seen him. £10m seems crazy money but good on Motherwell if they can get it.
Spoke to a villa fan who says he’s pound for pound the best signing in premier league historyQuote:
Originally Posted by Thatdayinmay16
He wasn’t a premier league signing.Quote:
Originally Posted by pepe
Based on value for money he probably isn't far off.Quote:
Originally Posted by pepe
Can't think of many players in PL history never mind football history being signed for so little then leading his team from the championship to the champions league group stage.
I would be surprised if it was as much as £10m with him entering I think the last year of his contract , would have guessed maybe £5m or £6m would have been the fee .Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Sauzee
I think Iredale's consistency has been the biggest shock this season. I genuinely think you prob count the mistakes he's made on 1 hand and that includes a nothing stray pass. When you take into count he wasn't even playing consistently before it's a ridiculous level of performance to maintain.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenPJ
You pulled the equivalent one of these to try to make Porteous look bad, but didnae bother with this one which is hardly a glowing endorsement of Simons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby
https://x.com/wt_analysis/status/1821539266859552878?s=46&t=D_9KaoRnzKU_iJPtdJwUXQ
Tells me you’re slightly bias.
Good on Motherwell all Scottish clubs need to start demanding more for players, excluding Celtic. Only way we will start getting more. Been shafted off England for far too long.Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Sauzee
If Porto does return it will be to face a crossroads in his career. He could still easily attract attention from 'bigger' clubs if he gets back on track, but if he can't do that here under a manager and coaching team who have shown real signs that they are able to make players realise their full potential then it's doubtful he could do it anywhere .... especially when he doesn't have the excuse of having to adjust to a new environment.
Somebody made a good point about the habit he had acquired in his latter days at Hibs of bawling out his teammates .... that would be number one on the list to cut out, especially when in the shape of folk like Jack Iredale, Lewis Miller and Rocky ( if they stay ) he would get just as much back, if not more.
On the upside, and something I haven't seen mentioned a lot, apart from being a clear defensive asset if he can screw the nut, he is also a threat from corners and set pieces .... I always thought he was made for the chuck a centre half up front when times running out and you are chasing the game role.
Personally, if he does return I will be excited to see if we end up with the player Porto should have been capable of developing into. But if he doesn't sign I won't be wringing my hands either because we won't need to find out if what we might have got back was the reckless shouty Porto who left us,
I think his mindset is important for sure. It’s something that we’d have to trust SDG and Malky Mackay on deciding it they think he’d be a welcome addition to the changing room. They haven’t gotten it wrong so far so whatever they decide I’d trust is right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby
What other fans say of Porto is of no interest to me personally, he’s out of favour and thus will not be spoken well about. You can look at any forum for any out of sorts player and find comments that would back up your point to not sign them. If you went deep enough about Rocky you’d find the same here.
Would think that's probably Vardy. Everton paid 60k and got about 400 games out of Seamus Coleman as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by pepe
Must admit I'm torn on Porteous coming back.Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
Reading the articles speculating his return it appears he may come back on loan. Highly unlikely we will be able to match or even get close to the wages he is on at Watford, so them meeting a percentage of his wages reduces any cost and risk. A deal where we could secure a permanent transfer, depending on his performances, etc, would make sense.
On his day he can be a very good defender, but he does come with a bit of unnecessary baggage at times.
I would like to see him back in a Hibs jersey, performing consistently but with less rashness. If it doesn't work out he can go back to Watford after the loan period. If it does work out and somehow we cannot secure him permanently then so be it.
Know there are a few 'ifs' in my post, which kind of sums Porteous up a bit. If only he didn't do this, if he only did that. There is a good player in there, no doubt. Just needs to smooth out the rough edges he has.
I know Porteous has brought some of it on himself, but my biggest concern would be the treatment he gets from refs.
All went quiet with xavi Simons
Absolutely this. He left a marked man and he will be again if we resign him.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tubs
There's little doubt he was more likely to get booked or sent off than a lot of other players in this league.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tubs
From a half assed search on line it looks like he accrued 9 yellow cards and no reds in 76 games for Watford, which for a defender I would imagine is below average in that league. A stat like that in England does nothing to dispel the theory that in Scotland he was targeted by refs.
He also scored 7 goals in those 76 games.
Mind you, he made an utter mug of himself in the friendly with Watford at Easter Road to allow Harry McKirdy to score his only goal for Hibs .... not his finest moment :greengrin