Brexit - What Now.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Labour will end up abstaining. They are going into an election campaign and nobody has the first idea what they stand for.


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Couldn't agree more with you on this point. Some think a change of leader would reinvigorate the party however it wouldn't solve its core systemic crisis of being in the grip of the extreme hard left Momentum. A change of leader would merely paper over the much deeper fault lines. Its in complete chaos.

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Originally Posted by Frankhfc

Couldn't agree more with you on this point. Some think a change of leader would reinvigorate the party however it wouldn't solve its core systemic crisis of being in the grip of the extreme hard left Momentum. A change of leader would merely paper over the much deeper fault lines. Its in complete chaos.

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When the country is in the grip of the hard right, that is not necessarily a bad thing. People need to face up to the damage unfettered capitalism is doing.

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Originally Posted by Cataplana

When the country is in the grip of the hard right, that is not necessarily a bad thing. People need to face up to the damage unfettered capitalism is doing.

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You're meandering off the subject I was commenting on. Labour are in deep crisis and will haemorrhage yet further seats at the forthcoming elections because there is a great deal of infighting and turbulence within the party between Momentum and Blairites in a battle for power and setting of policies.

Rumours circulating on Twitter now that Labour will actually whip to vote FOR the election in December (McDonnell backing Corbyn to vote for it, chief whip trying to push back on it though).

Buckle up boys :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Frankhfc

You're meandering off the subject I was commenting on. Labour are in deep crisis and will haemorrhage yet further seats at the forthcoming elections because there is a great deal of infighting and turbulence within the party between Momentum and Blairites in a battle for power and setting of policies.

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Fair enough, can't disagree with your assessment.

Corbyn confirmed he will back an election.

HERE WE, HERE WE, HERE WE ***** GO:flag::greengrin

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Originally Posted by Frankhfc

You're meandering off the subject I was commenting on. Labour are in deep crisis and will haemorrhage yet further seats at the forthcoming elections because there is a great deal of infighting and turbulence within the party between Momentum and Blairites in a battle for power and setting of policies.

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If the Blairites get back in power after we leave then there's no point. Someone like Cooper will win a majority in five years but they'll do literally nothing to reverse the social and economic damage done by Brexit. We'll have long left the EU and they won't want to risk their careers on another referendum - the centrist position is one of continuity.

For the rUK's sake I hope Corbyn can get a government put together.

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Originally Posted by Frankhfc

You're meandering off the subject I was commenting on. Labour are in deep crisis and will haemorrhage yet further seats at the forthcoming elections because there is a great deal of infighting and turbulence within the party between Momentum and Blairites in a battle for power and setting of policies.

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:agree:

They're on FPTP life support. The thing about FPTP is if it gets to a tipping point (see Scotland 2015) then they will be swept aside.

They will probably limp along ok in the coming election due to Remain tactical voting but the long term problem of MPs somewhat in tune with voters but with a completely different outlook to the leadership and the membership is not going away.

I don't know how the next few months will play out but I don't see a GE solving many problems. Car crash politics mixing with the normal pre-Christmas period insanity. Bah ****ing humbug indeed.

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Originally Posted by CloudSquall

Corbyn confirmed he will back an election.

HERE WE, HERE WE, HERE WE ***** GO:flag::greengrin

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This is Remain's last stand. There needs to be widespread tactical voting and the parties themselves are not going to get their **** together to co-ordinate it. It can happen on the ground though, like the good (and bad under Thatch) old days of a Tory free Scotland.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EICeqOMW...name=4096x4096

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

This is Remain's last stand. There needs to be widespread tactical voting and the parties themselves are not going to get their **** together to co-ordinate it. It can happen on the ground though, like the good (and bad under Thatch) old days of a Tory free Scotland.

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This is one of the most important six weeks ahead of the United Kingdom's history. It will define the next few generations future.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

This is Remain's last stand. There needs to be widespread tactical voting and the parties themselves are not going to get their **** together to co-ordinate it. It can happen on the ground though, like the good (and bad under Thatch) old days of a Tory free Scotland.

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Hopefully easier to organise these days as well.


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Originally Posted by Northernhibee

This is one of the most important six weeks ahead of the United Kingdom's history. It will define the next few generations future.

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Forget all the **** about whether Corbyn is a Brexiter or whatever. Labour are going to go in with a ref#2 in their manifesto in all circumstances. For the purposes of this election they are a Remain party and Remainers should vote for the best placed of them, the SNP and Libs in each constituency.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Forget all the **** about whether Corbyn is a Brexiter or whatever. Labour are going to go in with a ref#2 in their manifesto in all circumstances. For the purposes of this election they are a Remain party and Remainers should vote for the best placed of them, the SNP and Libs in each constituency.

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The message needs to be clear; you don't need to agree with the SNP, Labour or the Lib Dems; if they are your best bet of representing remain then they get your vote. If you don't vote tactically you are voting for Boris and you are voting for no deal.

You cannot be a remainer and not vote tactically.

I enjoyed this piece. Basically says England is on a spiral of self destruction fuelled by an inability to understand themselves, or anybody else.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/27/brexit-politics-britain-england-union

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Originally Posted by Northernhibee

The message needs to be clear; you don't need to agree with the SNP, Labour or the Lib Dems; if they are your best bet of representing remain then they get your vote. If you don't vote tactically you are voting for Boris and you are voting for no deal.

You cannot be a remainer and not vote tactically.

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Easy to remember in Scotland. If you don’t already have a Lib Dem mp or it’s not Ian Murray, Vote SNP.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Easy to remember in Scotland. If you don’t already have a Lib Dem mp or it’s not Ian Murray, Vote SNP.


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There'll be a double layer to tactical voting up here though - people won't vote for the SNP because they won't want them to use that as some perceived mandate for Independence. I fancy the Lib Dems could poll very well up here for that reason if they have a good representation of candidates across constituencies.

Depending on the constituency I could see many soft Tory voters (the type that Davidson won over) voting for the Lib Dems in Scotland.

I imagine the SNP will take the Labour seats bar Murray's with the Tory seats bar 1 or 2 being split between SNP and Lib Dems.

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Originally Posted by Sylar

There'll be a double layer to tactical voting up here though - people won't vote for the SNP because they won't want them to use that as some perceived mandate for Independence. I fancy the Lib Dems could poll very well up here for that reason if they have a good representation of candidates across constituencies.

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The SNP were 2nd in every single Labour and Tory seat last time. There is no chance anyone is coming from third place on the back of tactical voting. SNP base vote is too strong.


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Tell you what though, I'll be up all...night...long on election night to witness ****s like Ross Thomson get SNP GAINed..

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

This is Remain's last stand. There needs to be widespread tactical voting and the parties themselves are not going to get their **** together to co-ordinate it. It can happen on the ground though, like the good (and bad under Thatch) old days of a Tory free Scotland.

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The LDs aren't interested in keeping Johnson out or stopping Brexit; they just want to increase their number of seats. Corbyn won't compromise with anyone on the right (which let's face it, Swinson is).

It won't happen. Johnson majority.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The SNP were 2nd in every single Labour and Tory seat last time. There is no chance anyone is coming from third place on the back of tactical voting. SNP base vote is too strong.


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:agree: There won’t be much tactical voting in Scotland. The tories don’t even have a leader and the SNP will hoover up most of their seats. The Lib Dem’s will probably hold onto their seats, although Swinson will have a fight on her hands and Murray will probably hold his seat.

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Originally Posted by CloudSquall

Tell you what though, I'll be up all...night...long on election night to witness ****s like Ross Thomson get SNP GAINed..

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Me too.

Do we think the Brexit party will be up to much or has Boris done enough to nullify that threat?

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Originally Posted by Diclonius

The LDs aren't interested in keeping Johnson out or stopping Brexit; they just want to increase their number of seats. Corbyn won't compromise with anyone on the right (which let's face it, Swinson is).

It won't happen. Johnson majority.

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That's just patently not true. The LDs are pro-Europe and have been anti-Brexit from the start.

Of course they want to increase their seats, which party doesn't, but they will do what they can to stop it from happening. That might not be a lot on their own, but if it's a hung parliament, they'll have a say.

Johnson majority is most likely, but then May was supposed to clean up 2 years ago. I tend to think that the Tories will have learnt their lesson from that, but the Brexit party may be a fly in the Tory ointment so another hung parliament is definitely possible.

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Originally Posted by CloudSquall

Do we think the Brexit party will be up to much or has Boris done enough to nullify that threat?

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No. They're no more of a threat than UKIP ever were.

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Originally Posted by CloudSquall

Tell you what though, I'll be up all...night...long on election night to witness ****s like Ross Thomson get SNP GAINed..

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If it's the 11th, I'll just have arrived back from 4 weeks in Australia. I'll probably be up all night whether I want to be or not! 😁

We're heading for the worst kind of brexit, a tory brexit. There's no way Labour and Lib Dem voters will be prepared to exchange votes. Will be interesting to see how Scotland reacts after a massive tory majority and how the British media will try and lump that blame on the SNP.

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Originally Posted by CloudSquall

Do we think the Brexit party will be up to much or has Boris done enough to nullify that threat?

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Hard to say. They've been very quiet. Cummings loathes Farage and nobody trusts him or wants to give him the sort of role he'd want as a sweetener, so I think it's vanishingly unlikely there'll be a Tory/BP pact. Farage hates the Tories (spurned) and has fertile ground if he wants to go for it. After all, there are no PMs in ditches as we speak.

So I expect them to come out of hibernation and take votes off the Tories but I suppose it's just about possible they might hold fire in the knowledge there might not be a Brexit if they do too well?

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Originally Posted by Northernhibee

No. They're no more of a threat than UKIP ever were.

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It's going to be interesting. Johnson could nullify the BP by taking a firm hard Brexit line in his campaign, but he'd risk alienating the conservative voters who don't want to crash out.

If he tries to fudge it, Farage will try to capitalise

There's many a slip twixt cup and lip, particularly in a long GE campaign with Johnson scrutinised as never before.

Oddly, for remain to stand a chance we need to hope that Farage has an absolute barnstormer of a campaign that gets all the no dealers frothing at the mouth with excitement. It would take the feet from under Boris and even in that circumstance I couldn't see BXP taking more than 10-15 seats, but they may cost the Tories 90-100 seats IF remainers vote tactically.

There may be political capital in not opposing the Brexit Party Ltd. too heavily in this election.

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Originally Posted by Northernhibee

Oddly, for remain to stand a chance we need to hope that Farage has an absolute barnstormer of a campaign that gets all the no dealers frothing at the mouth with excitement. It would take the feet from under Boris and even in that circumstance I couldn't see BXP taking more than 10-15 seats, but they may cost the Tories 90-100 seats IF remainers vote tactically.

There may be political capital in not opposing the Brexit Party Ltd. too heavily in this election.

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:agree:

Without a pact they probably won't win any seats but they could stop the Tories making any inroads to the Midlands/North of England.

Edit to say the political capital in opposing them is there though - the more Remainers kick against Farage, the more hardline Leavers he will pick off.

Shaping up to be a 4 way bloodbath between BXP / Tories / Labour / Lib Dems down south.


Could come down to which side can tactically vote better..

I wish we could just have a second referendum.

We all know what leaving looks like now and if leave won, absolutely no remainers could have any complaints whatsoever.

This single issue general election is full of silly games, closed door deals and tactical voting. Is this REALLY in any way democratic?

This way just prolongs the nonsense.

SNP to try and amend the election bill to get "settled status" EU nationals a vote.

Apart from the fact that this is a tactical Remain boost, I can't see how it can legitimately be opposed anway? No taxation without representation as someone once said.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

:agree:

Without a pact they probably won't win any seats but they could stop the Tories making any inroads to the Midlands/North of England.

Edit to say the political capital in opposing them is there though - the more Remainers kick against Farage, the more hardline Leavers he will pick off.

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You're quite right.

Get Tony Blair speaking out about Farage at every opportunity. That would do more to damage Boris than anything else.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

SNP to try and amend the election bill to get "settled status" EU nationals a vote.

Apart from the fact that this is a tactical Remain boost, I can't see how it can legitimately be opposed anway? No taxation without representation as someone once said.

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Because in the eyes of the British government even settled migrants aren't equal with UK nationals.

It would also set a precedent that they can vote in future elections and this would hammer the Tory vote post Brexit.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Hard to say. They've been very quiet. Cummings loathes Farage and nobody trusts him or wants to give him the sort of role he'd want as a sweetener, so I think it's vanishingly unlikely there'll be a Tory/BP pact. Farage hates the Tories (spurned) and has fertile ground if he wants to go for it. After all, there are no PMs in ditches as we speak.

So I expect them to come out of hibernation and take votes off the Tories but I suppose it's just about possible they might hold fire in the knowledge there might not be a Brexit if they do too well?

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Farage IS a tory.

A few things will happen here.

1) The BP will form a pact with the tories over the flogging off of the NHS, tax avoidance schemes for millionaires and ultimately shafting the vulnerable, the foreigners and the working class.

2) Talks of a pact between the Lib Dems and Labour will break down. The Lib Dems will make sure of that. But will use tory media spin to make it appear that Labour are to blame.

3) The SNP will near enough get a clean sweep in Scotland, but will be blamed for many years to come by the British tory media for "allowing" a tory brexit. This will be used in an attempt to crush the idea of Scottish Independence for another 4 decades or so.

Mark this post.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Farage IS a tory.

A few things will happen here.

1) The BP will form a pact with the tories over the flogging off of the NHS, tax avoidance schemes for millionaires and ultimately shafting the vulnerable, the foreigners and the working class.

2) Talks of a pact between the Lib Dems and Labour will break down. The Lib Dems will make sure of that. But will use tory media spin to make it appear that Labour are to blame.

3) The SNP will near enough get a clean sweep in Scotland, but will be blamed for many years to come by the British tory media for "allowing" a tory brexit. This will be used in an attempt to crush the idea of Scottish Independence for another 4 decades or so.

Mark this post.

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Farage WAS a Tory but hates them because they rejected him as a candidate. He is, above all, in it for the glory of Nige.

1) v unlikely, Tories have enough loonies of their own without getting the real nutters on board and Cummings and Farage loathe one another.

2) They won't even start. Total non-runner.

3) You're in bizarro-world again.

How US trade negotiators will use UK desperation for a deal to get what US Big Pharma wants:

https://twitter.com/C4Dispatches/sta...48900767211521

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Farage WAS a Tory but hates them because they rejected him as a candidate. He is, above all, in it for the glory of Nige.

1) v unlikely, Tories have enough loonies of their own without getting the real nutters on board and Cummings and Farage loathe one another.

2) They won't even start. Total non-runner.

3) You're in bizarro-world again.

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Farage IS a tory. Toryism doesn't require a particular party. It's who they are as a person. As you say, he's in it for himself, which is the very epitome of being a tory.

1) Why would loonies care about taking on more loonies? Especially when they're all in it for the same goals? The tories want to flog off the NHS, Nigel Farage wants to flog off the NHS. The tories want to step up their tax dodging capabilities, Nigel Farage wants to step up his tax dodging capabilities. The tories want to screw over foreigners and vulnerable people, as does Nigel Farage. There's plenty of common ground for Farage to sink his teeth into. The last thing he'll want to do is split the Brexit vote. That's why they're keeping so quiet. They won't even campaign in this election.

2) Great news for Brexiteers

3) We'll see. But how many will notice rather than simply being suckered in by it?

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Farage IS a tory.

A few things will happen here.

1) The BP will form a pact with the tories over the flogging off of the NHS, tax avoidance schemes for millionaires and ultimately shafting the vulnerable, the foreigners and the working class.

2) Talks of a pact between the Lib Dems and Labour will break down. The Lib Dems will make sure of that. But will use tory media spin to make it appear that Labour are to blame.

3) The SNP will near enough get a clean sweep in Scotland, but will be blamed for many years to come by the British tory media for "allowing" a tory brexit. This will be used in an attempt to crush the idea of Scottish Independence for another 4 decades or so.

Mark this post.

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Marked.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Farage IS a tory.

A few things will happen here.

1) The BP will form a pact with the tories over the flogging off of the NHS, tax avoidance schemes for millionaires and ultimately shafting the vulnerable, the foreigners and the working class.

2) Talks of a pact between the Lib Dems and Labour will break down. The Lib Dems will make sure of that. But will use tory media spin to make it appear that Labour are to blame.

3) The SNP will near enough get a clean sweep in Scotland, but will be blamed for many years to come by the British tory media for "allowing" a tory brexit. This will be used in an attempt to crush the idea of Scottish Independence for another 4 decades or so.

Mark this post.

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Some interesting theories Fife... but I think we'll already be independent before any blame can be used to try and crush the ideal.

"Where is the prime minister," asks Mr Blackford, noting that he has left the chamber.


"One wonders if he is away to dig a ditch," ... :thumbsup:

Jo Swinson doing well in parly just now.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Jo Swinson doing well in parly just now.


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Literally just back home from holiday in the last hour and didn’t see her. What was she doing that came across well?

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

Literally just back home from holiday in the last hour and didn’t see her. What was she doing that came across well?

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Actually answering the questions when she gave way.


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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Farage IS a tory.

A few things will happen here.

1) The BP will form a pact with the tories over the flogging off of the NHS, tax avoidance schemes for millionaires and ultimately shafting the vulnerable, the foreigners and the working class.

2) Talks of a pact between the Lib Dems and Labour will break down. The Lib Dems will make sure of that. But will use tory media spin to make it appear that Labour are to blame.

3) The SNP will near enough get a clean sweep in Scotland, but will be blamed for many years to come by the British tory media for "allowing" a tory brexit. This will be used in an attempt to crush the idea of Scottish Independence for another 4 decades or so.

Mark this post.

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1. The Tories will not form an electoral pact with the Brexit Party.
2. There has been no cross party talks of an electoral pact between the LibDems and Labour to break down and there won’t be.
3. Read what you have written there, it doesn’t make any sense.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Jo Swinson doing well in parly just now.


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As she did last night. There is no ambiguity at all about her position on Brexit, her party will be rewarded at the ballot box in England and Wales.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Actually answering the questions when she gave way.


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Cheers, unfair to ask you post it and I am sure I can find it myself.

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Originally Posted by CloudSquall

Do we think the Brexit party will be up to much or has Boris done enough to nullify that threat?

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Originally Posted by Northernhibee

No. They're no more of a threat than UKIP ever were.

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Ni-gel, Ni-gel could be key in this election. As a performer he eats Johnson alive. If he decides that his own personal glory is more important than Brexit itself :hmmm: he might be minded to absolutely destroy Johnson.

British politics needs more Jess Phillips'. She's fantastic.



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Originally Posted by Just_Jimmy

British politics needs more Jess Phillips'. She's fantastic.



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I would be so much happier if she was leader of the opposition going into this election. Straight talking will be what cuts through Johnson's bull****.

Hard to escape the feeling that both parties have walked into a trap. Dominic Cummings desperate for a people vs the parliament election, Boris also wanting to have a timescale to allow another WDA vote and to also exclude as many students as possible.

We're in for another hung parliament, aren't we?

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Originally Posted by Northernhibee

Hard to escape the feeling that both parties have walked into a trap. Dominic Cummings desperate for a people vs the parliament election, Boris also wanting to have a timescale to allow another WDA vote and to also exclude as many students as possible.

We're in for another hung parliament, aren't we?

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Yep which solves nothing.

Looks like 12th December election is on

Now, I'm away in the carribean from 30th Nov - better to register for postal vote or vote by proxy?

I read somewhere that the postal vote papers go out a maximum of 16 days before the election, seeing as I'm leaving 12 days before kinda cutting it tight

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Originally Posted by Northernhibee

Hard to escape the feeling that both parties have walked into a trap. Dominic Cummings desperate for a people vs the parliament election, Boris also wanting to have a timescale to allow another WDA vote and to also exclude as many students as possible.

We're in for another hung parliament, aren't we?

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Now got the admiral ackbar gif stuck in my head. Cheers for that

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Originally Posted by Northernhibee

Hard to escape the feeling that both parties have walked into a trap. Dominic Cummings desperate for a people vs the parliament election, Boris also wanting to have a timescale to allow another WDA vote and to also exclude as many students as possible.

We're in for another hung parliament, aren't we?

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Labour didn't walk into a trap. They never had a choice in the matter. When it became abundantly clear to them that there was going to be an election anyway (even if they voted against it) they had no choice but to vote for it. As going into a general election as the main opposition party, having voted against having one, would have been the biggest blunder of all.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Labour didn't walk into a trap. They never had a choice in the matter. When it became abundantly clear to them that there was going to be an election anyway (even if they voted against it) they had no choice but to vote for it. As going into a general election as the main opposition party, having voted against having one, would have been the biggest blunder of all.

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SNP and Lib Dem’s never voted for it. Just Tories and Labour.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

SNP and Lib Dem’s never voted for it. Just Tories and Labour.


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I was referring to the initial vote, not the vote over the date of the election. Labour would have been left looking cowardly and foolish if they hadn't backed it, since it was being voted through anyway. So even although they don't really want an election right now, they had to make it seem as if they did.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

I was referring to the initial vote, not the vote over the date of the election. Labour would have been left looking cowardly and foolish if they hadn't backed it, since it was being voted through anyway. So even although they don't really want an election right now, they had to make it seem as if they did.

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I'll agree with you there. Labour were left with no choice other than to appear to back an election they don't really want.
And it provides a good illustration of just how poor Corbyn's leadership of his party has been. Despite the Tories operating with a minority Government for months and losing vote after vote as the splits within their ranks became chasms the main opposition party could not take control and lead the way, all they could do was react to events as they unfolded. How poor is that?

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Originally Posted by Just_Jimmy

British politics needs more Jess Phillips'. She's fantastic.



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Excellent

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c548056d8b.jpg

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Originally Posted by marinello59

I'll agree with you there. Labour were left with no choice other than to appear to back an election they don't really want.
And it provides a good illustration of just how poor Corbyn's leadership of his party has been. Despite the Tories operating with a minority Government for months and losing vote after vote as the splits within their ranks became chasms the main opposition party could not take control and lead the way, all they could do was react to events as they unfolded. How poor is that?

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I don't think Corbyn ever really had a chance with his true to the left ideology. There have been people within the party seeking to undermine him at every opportunity since he came in. Even now, there are MPs in the Labour Party trying to make him look as bad as possible by whinging about Labours backing of the election, despite not having a choice in the matter.

If they actually cared about the party, they'd be keeping their mouths shut about it and campaigning hard for the election. But they just don't want Labour to do well with Corbyn as leader, which I find very sad.

so let me get this right, when the media revealed the SNP and lib dems were voting for an election corbyn proclaimed to the media it was a stunt, 48 hours later corbyn was voting for an election as well :rolleyes: why are the same media not asking him if he just pulled a stunt

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Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

so let me get this right, when the media revealed the SNP and lib dems were voting for an election corbyn proclaimed to the media it was a stunt, 48 hours later corbyn was voting for an election as well :rolleyes: why are the same media not asking him if he just pulled a stunt

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There's nothing to stop Nicola or Jo claiming that he pulled a stunt. However, Labour did exactly what you'd have expected them to do. It would have made no sense for them to vote against an election that they knew was going to be pushed through anyway. It would have looked really bad for them had they done so.

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Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

so let me get this right, when the media revealed the SNP and lib dems were voting for an election corbyn proclaimed to the media it was a stunt, 48 hours later corbyn was voting for an election as well :rolleyes: why are the same media not asking him if he just pulled a stunt

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The media didn't say it was a stunt. They reported the Tories response to the SNP and LD's attempt to get the election called on 9 December.

They said it was a stunt because it had no hope of succeeding.

Corbyn supported the motion to call it on 12 December which succeeded. He didn't instigate it, so even if it had been rejected, it wouldn't have been his "stunt".

Ian Blackford just invited John Bercow to the Holy ground as he wished him well in retirement 😁

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Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs

Ian Blackford just invited John Bercow to the Holy ground as he wished him well in retirement 😁

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just heard him, my stream must be 2 mins slow :greengrin

wan kerr getting all excited when ian blackford is speaking

So to the OP - No it won’t :-)

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

So to the OP - No it won’t :-)

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I will, however, be hopefully checking all the ditches on my way to work tomorrow......

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

So to the OP - No it won’t :-)

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Indeed. I should start a new one.

Will we leave on the 31st January 2020? :greengrin

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Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee

Indeed. I should start a new one.

Will we leave on the 31st January 2020? :greengrin

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I am sure I often disagree with a lot of posters on here but in this case I am confident i am in a majority in saying I really, really, really hope not,

And I actually don’t think we will if we, as in Remainers, can find a way.

I am all for tactical voting and some clear agreement from all the Remain parties.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

I am sure I often disagree with a lot of posters on here but in this case I am confident i am in a majority in saying I really, really, really hope not,

And I actually don’t think we will if we, as in Remainers, can find a way.

I am all for tactical voting and some clear agreement from all the Remain parties.

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Ah, the good old tactical voting, apart from, Scotland, where labour, and the Tories stand aside for the lib dems to get a clear run against Ian blackford and the SNP, the pro remain party.

Also the lib dems doing deals with Plaid Cymru, but won't do deals in Scotland.

Better together 2 is up and running.

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

Ah, the good old tactical voting, apart from, Scotland, where labour, and the Tories stand aside for the lib dems to get a clear run against Ian blackford and the SNP, the pro remain party.

Also the lib dems doing deals with Plaid Cymru, but won't do deals in Scotland.

Better together 2 is up and running.

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Grievance, resentment and petted lips.

Dont ever change :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

Grievance, resentment and petted lips.

Dont ever change :greengrin

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It's a good question regarding why they will negotiate with Welsh nationalists but not Scottish nationalists. And yet another question that the Lib Dem leader seems incapable of answering

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

Grievance, resentment and petted lips.

Dont ever change :greengrin

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I could say that about your comment re the "DEATH STAR" in Glasgow...I won't though. I hope when your family eventually need the SNHS they're there, as usual with their professionalism front and centre.

Now back on topic.

Why would the Lib dems do deals with one set of Normalists, and not the other. Strange bunch.:wink:

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

I could say that about your comment re the "DEATH STAR" in Glasgow...I won't though. I hope when your family eventually need the SNHS they're there, as usual with their professionalism front and centre.

Now back on topic.

Why would the Lib dems do deals with one set of Normalists, and not the other. Strange bunch.:wink:

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The Death Star was a commonly used nickname by people who worked there, based on the sheer size, scale and resemblance to the Star Wars film. Unfortunately, it took on a more resonant tone with what has happened there.

Please don’t talk about me and my family and to whether we have needed or will need the NHS. You have no right.

And ‘Normalist’ really? Is that the new thing? That doesn’t make the separatist movement sound like some right-wing, white, West Virginian Nazi movement! Whoever thought that up should be sacked. When you are trying to make an argument to win over the majority, then describing yourself as Normalist, as defined against the majority who disagreed with you, is just more grievance and resentment.

Im not a LibDem member, nor am I Jo Swinson, and I have been on holiday so had less time to read up on reportage. I genuinely don’t know, at this stage, why they are talking to PC and not SNP. Maybe you could offer a view. Maybe they are turned off by the massive grievance and resentment politics because it is singularly unattractive?

If people just want to get it done, and they don't care what it is, would it not make sense not to do it at all?

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Originally Posted by Cataplana

If people just want to get it done, and they don't care what it is, would it not make sense not to do it at all?

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You might think. And particularly when almost every single poll in the last two years has shown a majority for Remain. But too anti-democratic, probably.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

The Death Star was a commonly used nickname by people who worked there, based on the sheer size, scale and resemblance to the Star Wars film. Unfortunately, it took on a more resonant tone with what has happened there.

Please don’t talk about me and my family and to whether we have needed or will need the NHS. You have no right.

And ‘Normalist’ really? Is that the new thing? That doesn’t make the separatist movement sound like some right-wing, white, West Virginian Nazi movement! Whoever thought that up should be sacked. When you are trying to make an argument to win over the majority, then describing yourself as Normalist, as defined against the majority who disagreed with you, is just more grievance and resentment.

Im not a LibDem member, nor am I Jo Swinson, and I have been on holiday so had less time to read up on reportage. I genuinely don’t know, at this stage, why they are talking to PC and not SNP. Maybe you could offer a view. Maybe they are turned off by the massive grievance and resentment politics because it is singularly unattractive?

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You introduced them on another thread, so it seems you'll use them to make a point, but don't like someone referencing them on a similar subject.

Fair do's though, if you don't want me referencing Mummy, Daddy, and the bairns, I won't. :aok:

The point about the lib dems which you have no idea about, is probably just them being Lib dems though. Say anything to get the power. :na na:

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

You introduced them on another thread, so it seems you'll use them to make a point, but don't like someone referencing them on a similar subject.

Fair do's though, if you don't want me referencing Mummy, Daddy, and the bairns, I won't. :aok:

The point about the lib dems which you have no idea about, is probably just them being Lib dems though. Say anything to get the power. :na na:

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That is a pretty pathetic post.

My Mummy and Daddy, really?

Have a word with yourself. Or maybe just go back to linking to Wings and the like, you are not a credible poster, and the worst thing is, I think you know that.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

That is a pretty pathetic post.

My Mummy and Daddy, really?

Have a word with yourself. Or maybe just go back to linking to Wings and the like, you are not a credible poster, and the worst thing is, I think you know that.

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You introduced them. I've already said I won't mention them again, so if you could get back on topic, I'd be obliged.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

You introduced them. I've already said I won't mention them again, so if you could get back on topic, I'd be obliged.:rolleyes:

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If we go back to post 3178 then I think we find it was you who introduced my family into the debate. I mentioned them earlier in a fair manner in a reply to a post, where another poster had raised the issue of health care for all.

Apology and retraction awaited, but not expected.

Either way, debate with me like an adult, you don’t know my family so leave them out.

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

You introduced them on another thread, so it seems you'll use them to make a point, but don't like someone referencing them on a similar subject.

Fair do's though, if you don't want me referencing Mummy, Daddy, and the bairns, I won't. :aok:

The point about the lib dems which you have no idea about, is probably just them being Lib dems though. Say anything to get the power. :na na:

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And anything to say about the dodgy right-wing, racist-sounding ‘Normalist’ talk? Is that your thing now?

I am sure most Nats are not racists but ‘Normalists’, really? It sounds supremacist. Why would you even consider using language like that?

#worriedforyou

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

You might think. And particularly when almost every single poll in the last two years has shown a majority for Remain. But too anti-democratic, probably.

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The whole "anything to end this" is typical of their logic. As I say, giving up will end it, and from what I can see everybody will be happy.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

If we go back to post 3178 then I think we find it was you who introduced my family into the debate. I mentioned them earlier in a fair manner in a reply to a post, where another poster had raised the issue of health care for all.

Apology and retraction awaited, but not expected.

Either way, debate with me like an adult, you don’t know my family so leave them out.

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For the love of god.

You introduced them on the SNP nonsense thread. Post number 2949, way earlier than I ever did.

It was in the early hours of the morning, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Now if you'll just move along and get the thread back on track, I'm sure we'd all be obliged.

I've already said that I'd leave your family out of it, so why bring them into it again? SERIOUSLY.

Apology and retraction awaited, but not expected.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

And anything to say about the dodgy right-wing, racist-sounding ‘Normalist’ talk? Is that your thing now?

I am sure most Nats are not racists but ‘Normalists’, really? It sounds supremacist. Why would you even consider using language like that?

#worriedforyou

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We've got Fife and myself stalking Ruth Davidson and Christine Jardine and now Ronaldo's been outed as the supremacist amongst us, who's the next to be rumbled? :greengrin

Is it the mention of Newman and Baddiel on the Jo Swinson thread that has you lot stopping just short of using the "that's your mum, that is" line?

https://youtu.be/9UMedd03JCA

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Originally Posted by CloudSquall

We've got Fife and myself stalking Ruth Davidson and Christine Jardine and now Ronaldo's been outed as the supremacist amongst us, who's the next to be rumbled? :greengrin

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#worriedforyou

:faf:

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Originally Posted by CloudSquall

We've got Fife and myself stalking Ruth Davidson and Christine Jardine and now Ronaldo's been outed as the supremacist amongst us, who's the next to be rumbled? :greengrin

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Maybe Fife-Hibee's lurking around out there now with camera in hand :greengrin

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/vote-leave-director-admits-won-lied-public/08/02/

Cummings admission that they wouldn't have won without the NHS lie, raises all sorts of questions about the validity in letting people vote at all.

Totally unscientifically, I see it as this. Either they were too stupid to realise that the statement was untrue, or they were prepared to accept a lie in some mad hope it might be true.

If I'm right, it means that any of us is missing the point when we call out untruths from politicians. Namely, it's not whether their claims are true, but rather, whether they will be believed.

A star is born - They say 'cometh the hour cometh the man' - listen to this brilliant Bishop Auckland farmer...
"On referendum night we went to bed as Great Britain and woke up as Little Britain" https://t.co/lOKHj8emNg

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

A star is born - They say 'cometh the hour cometh the man' - listen to this brilliant Bishop Auckland farmer...
"On referendum night we went to bed as Great Britain and woke up as Little Britain" https://t.co/lOKHj8emNg

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Or is it the words of a bitter farmer that went to bed receiving lavish EU subsidies and woke up to find the gravy train is over.

This is an article that may interest you or maybe not because I guess In your eyes the EU can do no wrong?

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ng-agriculture

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Originally Posted by Slavers

Or is it the words of a bitter farmer that went to bed receiving lavish EU subsidies and woke up to find the gravy train is over.

This is an article that may interest you or maybe not because I guess In your eyes the EU can do no wrong?

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ng-agriculture

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Just what I would expect to hear from the brexs hitters.

FYI George Monbiot is a very sensible person, as a member of the EU every country has a chance to change the CAP, and his environmental credentials are a lot more than Michael Gove's. You would know that if you read to the end of the article.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Just what I would expect to hear from the brexs hitters.

FYI George Monbiot is a very sensible person, as a member of the EU every country has a chance to change the CAP, and his environmental credentials are a lot more than Michael Gove's. You would know that if you read to the end of the article.

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Did he wake up in the morning to find his lavish subsidies are to be stopped? I'm just saying this could be the reason why he is using terms like little Britian.

Anyone listed out real term benefits of brexit yet?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Slavers

Did he wake up in the morning to find his lavish subsidies are to be stopped? I'm just saying this could be the reason why he is using terms like little Britian.

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Lavish subsidies?

Or is an ordinary man just reacting like any ordinary man would when his livelihood is under threat?

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Originally Posted by Slavers

Did he wake up in the morning to find his lavish subsidies are to be stopped? I'm just saying this could be the reason why he is using terms like little Britian.

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No one woke up knowing WTF was going to happen. We still don't!