I think it has, but not officially :wink: Like this whole affair, clear as mud :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
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I think it has, but not officially :wink: Like this whole affair, clear as mud :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
Seems stange then that they're on creditors list as of 3 months ago. Do you know what the debt was for & how long it had been outstanding?Quote:
Originally Posted by inglisavhibs
Thanks for info.
With Sevco it was 'succulent lamb', with them it's more like 'dry hamburger'. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by clerriehibs
the festive seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by 3pm
The decision on UBIG will be announced on the 7th of November
Why the delay Bajillions? Is it just Lith legal procedure?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
Pleasing :wink:
Is there any chance that it won't be a straightforward announcement of the administrator? Could it be worse than that for THEM?
Slightly off topic here, but all the stuff on this thread about the creditors list and the absence of any kind of expressed regret towards them and all the rest of it (I have read every post) only added to that sick feeling in my stomach as I watched the bloodied turd hordes celebrating in our away stand last night. I just needed to share that thought.
I've not heard anything else other than that at this time. I believe the delay is simply because the judge in charge of this case is busy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
That's not to say it won't all kick off when the administrator starts has had a wee shufty at UBIG's previous dealings :wink:
Remember that feeling in may when they get relegated :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green Goblin
:agree::agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green Goblin
If they get relegated in May they'll have dodged a very big bullet which the in the know posters on here claimed was impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
Why no just say what this bullet is instead of acting all secretive?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Eh? I'm talking about liquidation and the frozen shares. No big secret.Quote:
Originally Posted by QMU-1875
As it stands, the shares are still frozen and there's absolutely no reason to be believe they will unfrozen any time soon. It's entirely possible Hearts will still be in admin come May. Even if they do somehow get out of this utter mess they are in, their new business plan is fundamentally and horrifically flawed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
This is the hymn-sheet that I've been singing from since they entered administration. No UBIG shares = No sale to FoH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
I'm personally betwixt between on their final outcome. Stumbling-on, month-to month in a lower league satisfies me, with the prospect of further administration only a few cancelled direct debits away - or having them liquidised. It's a tough call.
The 2 are likely to be the same. If they get liquidated FOH will buy up the scraps and start a new Hearts who will struggle in the lower leaguesQuote:
Originally Posted by Sergey
Liquidation means the loss of Tynecastle. That's the one for me.
In the interests of sporting fairness, I think they deserve a shot at making the lower leagues by the administration route, before being fast-tracked through liquidation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
They can be relegated whilst still in administration, and be liquidated later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
And there will still be someone who comes along and tells us that they got away with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Can they be kicked out the League Cup if they are liquidated as well!Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Clutching at straws now
It doesn't necessarily, if someone decides to buy Tynie as a football stadium and rent it to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I think the above amendment works as well.:wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S
I needed cheering up tonight and this thread just keeps delivering :wink:
Pleasing.........
Attachment 11232
I so would ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by LeithenHibby
Just a thought on the frozen Yam shares and a way the Merricks might use to get round the problem.
Could the UBIG administrator enter into an agreement to sell the shares to FoH once they become unfrozen . Would a signed contract with an agreed price to acquire the frozen shares be enough to allow the CVA to proceed, that's assuming that there is also enough cash on the table to satisfy the Secured Creditor ?
That would imply they will become unfrozen. We don't know what clad and his cronies were upto yet but I'm betting it wasn't kosher. " innocent men don't run"Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
We gave them a confidence boost in August that set them on a wee run, along with something like £90,000 for their coffers.
This week, we've given them another confidence boost,just as they were on a count of 9 - and set them up for a further c. £200, 000 to see them through a wee bit longer.
Another two games against us (likely) may well be exactly what they need to see them through to the end of the season and still in the top division.
Which is actually as sickening as the simple fact of losing to them when we shouldn't.
One more reason why we need a top 6 finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by clerriehibs
Unless we draw them in the Scottish cup they'll only make any money from us once more this season, and that's a guaranteed fixture in March before the split (on the assumption they're not liquidated by then). If we finish in the bottom six then the last derby of the season will be at ER. If you're talking purely about confidence boosts I'd like to think that Wednesday night will be the last time they beat us this season. Lets not forget how awful they are and how lucky they were on WednesdayQuote:
Originally Posted by clerriehibs
I was saying this to a friend before the game, although I calculated it to be nearer 100,000 due to the teams playing and it being a midweek evening game, and how they'd have been laughing all the way to the bank if they got through.Quote:
Originally Posted by clerriehibs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
I would have thought the shares would have to become unfrozen sometime. Be it 3, 5, or 15 years, if they have an agreement in place to acquire them is that enough for a CVA to progress.
UBIG have 49.47% of the shares so if FoH get every other share they could have majority holding.
Can someone please tell me this won't work . :greengrin
vlads niece has another 15% does she not? so wouldn't be a major share holdingQuote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
If they shares are frozen then it would be difficult to strike a deal to sell them if someone else has a claim on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
There are another 10% of shares (certificates yet to be issued) "owned" by Joe Public with the money resting in an overseas account somewhere. I'd imagine they'd be quite difficult to come by.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Do they though?
Has it been confirmed that UBIG have the shares?, it's a long shot for sure, but maybe they have gone elsewhere! Just maybe :aok:
I think we all thought that after the last defeat earlier this season !Quote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
Quote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
Well, they're two-for-two so far this season, so I really don't share your confidence.
me neither, with mupPAT in charge they will be confident we wont beat them this season, an easy 6 points. I would if i was a puddle drinkerQuote:
Originally Posted by keekaboo
No one has updated the status of the YAMs demise since yesterday afternoon. It was lurking down on page 2. Did something happen to yesterday that made us all focus 100% on Hibs? Shame on you all :na na:
because Hearts went into admin before the season 2013/2014 started they got a 15 point deduction,so does that mean at the end of the season hopefully they should be relegated,if saying that with the legal cases going on regarding financial wrong doing and the frozen shares they may well still be in admin,would they then incur another 15 point deduction going in to the following season or is that just wishfull thinking on my part:confused:
You're correct, they'll be hit with another penalty if still in admin at end of his season.Quote:
Originally Posted by gorgie greens
I assume that it'll be a third of their gross points total rather than net of the current 15 point deduction?Quote:
Originally Posted by brog
they might end up getting a points start because at this rate they might end the season still on a minus points total :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Antwerphibs
I think the 15 points is the minimum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antwerphibs
Yep. The race to zero will start all over again :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
And the -12 from sevco , -27 and counting :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
Double relegation , now that I would find very "pleasing"Quote:
Originally Posted by hibees 7062
What would be even more pleasing would be to officially relegate them in the last derby of the season. That would be the ultimate daffy duck gif moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by mutley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
Where's your ambition, man? Is there no way we could relegate them on 2 Jan? :greengrin:flag:
Would be nice but I reckon there's no chance unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glory Lurker
After Wed's horror, the very last team we want to play again is the Yams. If they get relegated it will be in spite of us rather than because so let's just leave it to the proper football teams to sort them out :cbQuote:
Originally Posted by Glory Lurker
Take it there's no been much happening since the CVA announcement then? Sadly I don't think there's much chance of liquidation anymore. They'll prob stay in admin for a while yet until the UBIG shares problem is resolved. But ultimately I think it will be resolved, it's just a matter of when. They'll still struggle with FoH in charge and with the (hopefully) inevitable relegation. But in a few years they'll be back with a considerably better outlook and lower debt. Only problem they'll be left with will be their crumbling stadium and no funds to improve it unless god decides to do them a favour by lobbing a metior at it.
I have heard suggestions that the FOH is a cashless front to secure the club and will hand over everything in a debt for equity to those that fronted the money in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
They are very optimistic.
Just sayin.
He tried that in December 1999 but the damn thing got caught in the back of the net.Quote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
^^^^ best post i've seen on here for ages. :top marks:sauzee:Quote:
Originally Posted by bawheid
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawheid
:thumbsup::sauzee:
http://translate.googleusercontent.c...VHATOwz-RJqhng
Hope this keeps the shares in the freezer for a few years.
"Republic of Srpska in Banja Luka"Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Come on. Now they're just inventing countries.
It's actually an Anagram of '5-1 **** the hibs'Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo_1875
Banja Luka is a city. Republic Srpska is the government for the Serbian bits of Bosnia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo_1875
So you say!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter
I think the fact that they are going after the directors/owners for the Lita 1.3 bn (£300 million) which is the rough cost of the bailout to make the depositors of Ukio whole. To me it means that the they are not going to hold Hearts responsible for the scam (although Bloomberg points out the Ukio’s loans went to UBIG and then on to Hearts something I have always maintained) and that will not punish what they see as an innocent party for Romanov’s £70 million Hearts scams. That to me leads me to believe that they will accept the CVA and at least obtain some of the money that Romanov blew.Quote:
Bloomberg:
Ukio Bankas Seeks 1.3b Litai Damages From Ex-Owners, Directors
Romanov has repeatedly denied wrongdoing; prosecutors in July began international search for Romanov, who left Lithuania in May, BNS news service reported
Some Ukio loans went to now also bankrupt Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe, through which Romanov controlled 79% of Scottish soccer club Heart of Midlothian
Lithuanian state deposit insurance, which borrowed money from govt for Ukio bankruptcy, is largest creditor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiberlin
the 4th league game against hertz would be at ER therefore they wouldn't get any more cash from a 4th game with us, unfortunately that would also mean us having to finish in the bottom 6
I might be missing something subliminal here, but where does that Bloomberg statement state that Adomis of the Ukio administrator is going to accept a CVA? As far as I'm aware, a CVA hasn't even been presented.Quote:
Originally Posted by desantos0773
The crux of the story looks to be that the creditors of the bank are after 1.3 billion Lith Litas.
1.3 billion Lith Litas = ???Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergey
£316m roughlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Geo_1875
So they're going to try to sue absent directors of UKIO for £300m+ yet they'll let a £6m+ asset go for peanuts? Can't see it myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by stokesmessiah
This is actually yesterday's news and I'm not sure if it's 1.2 billion Litas or 1.2 billion US$ as this translated article states both: http://translate.googleusercontent.c...HyyGVZE2TWR-xwQuote:
Originally Posted by Geo_1875
This bit is pleasing:
I don't see the PBS and/or the UBIG shares changing hands any time soon, if indeed at all.Quote:
"Applicant status will allow us to actively participate in the study and the basis for the suspects property ownership restrictions. In turn, this opens the way to search for a specific prosecutor to arrest assets. In other words, cooperation with law enforcement takes on the form and content and we will be much easier to arrest the former shareholders and managers of the property in order to ensure the bank's creditors and minority shareholders' interests ", - said the bank BAB An insolvency administrator Amber Adomonis.
It is and he/she, in my opinion, types a lot of sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
Neither can I.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo_1875
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/spor...m-city-6275309
Does anyone think Birmingham has something in common with our neighbours
I'm in that club - they are toast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weststandwanab
New rules might be in place by then.http://www.lawinsport.com/blog/adam-...JhdGlvbiI7fQ==Quote:
Originally Posted by brog
User Actions#Hearts' administrators BDO have sent a CVA proposal to creditors for £2.5m sale of club to @The_FoH. Creditors' meeting on 22 Nov. #HMFC
Following
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images...c9_normal.jpegBarry Anderson@BarryAnderson_8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
Oooooh, juicy news from Barry Fandanderson.
'Mon, the Lithuanian Creditor's Association. Do the right thing, you owe to yourselves.
How could anyone owed £15m, with a security on a stadium for £6.8m POSSIBLY resist the offer of £2.5m? Yet we all know ultimately it will happen because the whole business of administration in football is ****ing corrupt.:cbQuote:
Originally Posted by Radium
Hmmm pbs is surely worth significantly more than that alone?
Except that landlords tend to want references these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Yeah, like Ibrox and Murray park was worth £1.5m and East End Park was worth £150,000.Quote:
Originally Posted by EuanH78
Did the mad Italian not make an offer of £4 Mill which fell at the first fence. And how much did the gaga pensioner from Peebles bid? Sure it was at least 2.5 Mill. So how do BDO get the lot, lock stock and barrel for £2.5Mill?
Remember BDO fees will be off the total offer i presume.Quote:
Originally Posted by Famous Fiver
Should know this since I've read this whole thread but what happens if UKIO admins accept the £2.5m, Do they get all the money & UBIG admins have to accept nothing for the shares?
So are they going bust or not
They went bust. The Lithuanians need to decide whether Hearts can be salvaged from that mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAZYHIBBY
The FOH offer is for £2.5M for the stadium and £1 for the shares.Quote:
Originally Posted by rosscarnie
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/h...medium=twitter
Those offers were ruled out more because the funding for them wasn't credible, rather than their size.Quote:
Originally Posted by Famous Fiver
I would have guessed the opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
The full £2.5m will be needed to appease the UKIO creditors. The BDO fee (and football debts) will be over and above that.
If you remember, there was a change to the wording of the administration process (back near the start) that basically stated that BDO had the ability to take expenses (ie their fee) from the "pot". That "pot" is getting smaller by the day and BDO may well be looking at rushing through a CVA with their fee in mind.
BDO don't have access to the direct debits, and FOH are unlikely to use these for the day to day running until they've secured control. BDO indicated at the start of the season that barely had enough to keep the team going till Christmas, and then it was curtains. The league cup game may have extended that slightly, and the upcoming Scottish Cup and semi-final games may give a little while longer, but we are into November now (and the shops are starting their Christmas promotions).
My guess would be that FOH have at most a (guesstimated) pot of £3.5m-£4m, and £2.5m is the best they can muster for a CVA for UKIO. There were rumblings that UKIO wanted £6m, indicated (publicly) that they might be willing to drop to £5m, and may have even taken £4m if pushed. £2.5m is nothing short of a kick in the teeth.
"Foundation of Hearts would also assume responsibility of the £535,000 of football debt that Hearts owes"Quote:
Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter
What relevence is that to UKIO?? :confused:
It makes no difference to them whether there's a football debt, or who does/doesn't pay it.
Can't see why it would even be mentioned in a CVA??
How do BDO get away with saying things like this without people actually laughing directly in their face.....
"BDO said the deal represents the best outcome for creditors of the Edinburgh club, with liquidation likely to realise less from the sale of the land."
It must be an open joke in administration circles where they all sit about in offices laughing their ***** off as they con people out of money. To me these scandals are up there with bankers bonuses, energy company price hikes and politician's expenses. They are shafting us all up the arse.
Sorry Stevie, that's what I was meaning with my rather poor English.:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieC
Just how good would that be!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Glory Lurker
The timing of this puzzles me as well.
From memory, UBIGs vote for the CVA is needed to guarantee it. If they don't vote, that is the same as a No vote.
Will they have anyone in place for the 22nd? If so, is that enough time for them to come to a decision on the CVA?
It's to persuade the football creditors to vote for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieC
Ah, right, got you.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Even though their vote is completely irrelevent. :wink:
Ian Murray, chairman of the Foundation, said: "We welcome the news that BDO is progressing the CVA for November 22 and hope that there will be a positive outcome.
“There is much work to be done, and again I cannot stress enough the importance of supporters who have not yet signed up to FoH, and who are able to do so.”
Seems to have gone from "we are confident" to "hope" pretty quickly. :rolleyes:
And secondly, why the importance for supporters to sign up?? :confused:
The CVA is in .. it will be dealt with before any new DD's can be collected .. so they can't be that important ..
.. unless ..
.. the CVA is based on money they don't actually have and if it is accepted there'll be a financial shortfall?
so they are offering 2.5million for land valued at approx 5/6 million:dunno::dunno::dunno:now im not a financial wizard but that offer looks tom kite
Evening News LINK to current CVA offer story
If BDO's fees are to be paid from the offer, it doesn't leave much for UKIO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmack7
For land that was almost sold for 18M seven years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Are the courts not sitting tomorrow (7th) to settle this, sure I saw that somewhere! :confused:
BDO are anticipating the UBIG admin being appointed tomorrow. Unless the judge is busy again.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
FWIW this offer is higher than the original one I'm told but I'm still convinced its seriously flawed.
It probably will turn out to be irrelevant, but at this stage they need to woo as many creditors as they can.Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieC
It's to persuade the football creditors to vote for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieC
I have no inside knowledge at all but this seems like an agreed stitch up whether we like it or not. I don't believe DBO would put forward a proposal that had not been pre-agreed and effectively they are only dealing with 2 parties in Lith so shouldn't be too difficult, especially as it seems politicians seem to have got involved behind closed doors. Hope I am wrong as effectively this, if it goes through, is small punishment for massive cheating. At least they will be relegated and I suspect the Muppets at Foundation of Hearts will all fall out but, if this goes through, there is little justice.
So the FOH are paying in instalments ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24842084
Utter robbery if they get away with this.
22nd November. Fifty years since JFKs assassination.
Could be another "where were you?" moment.
Am I missing something ? why would the major creditors accept £2.5 M when they own the ground and could flog it for twice or even three times that amount.
They need to maximise their return for the Lithuanian Taxpayers so tell BDO to Foxtrot Oscar
To be fair, that all came after a piss poor cva was rejected by Hmrc with a friendly and dodgy admin. Not sure this will pan out the same but confess I'm not an expertQuote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
Because they might not be bothered with the hassle. £7m (or whatever the land is worth) is a lot to you, or me, but chicken feed relative to the scale of Vlad's empires problems and this is politically toxic. After expenses, uncertainty over planning permission, delays, political intervention etc they might just go for it. Hope I am wrong - cheats should not be seen to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by bathhibby