The generic Hearts thread

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Originally Posted by hibbyfraelibby

That is not the point I am making. The league may be suspended at present but no club has exercised C12 anywhere in Scotland.

Having now been empowered to end the SPFL season they have ended the Championship, L1,L2. They defered doing so for The Prem until the UEFA meeting yesterday, at which Belguim and Scotland made representations to allow them to end their seasons as stand.

Uefa confirmed the criteria and both Scotland and Belguim meet one or both.

The League should therefore be called as is at the SPFL Board meeting on Monday. If teams use any delay to invoke C12 then the SPFL, as a members organisation, could be seen to be colluding with its member(s) to unlawfully deny a player his rightful payment or to have done so to avoid the nullification of said contract due to non-fulfilment of a material condition.

That said C12 will in itself be a contentious issue challengeable in court on the grounds that it is an unreasonably onerous condition imposed by an individual or organisation, not a party to the contract, which in effect represents s restriction to trade under EU Law, still applicable in the transition period.

Additionally in commencing a court action against say HMFC and others the pursuer can ask that the defender place bond to cover the pursuers costs should the defender lose. In light of say HMFC's parilous finance a Sherrif at stage one may make an order to that effect.

Budgie is dicing with disaster if she thinks she can go down this route without serious risk to the company (HMFC) and the SPFL wont want to be party to an action that could financially penalise its members.

Not saying it could, would or should happen just demonstating a potential scenario the PFA and its members might seek to pursue.

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Thanks, nicely critiqued. Just as well you're not a Jambo, they would never have understood any of that on Brokeback

Let me get this straight.

In the six weeks that have passed since the visionary Budge first demanded the players take pay cuts, nothing has happened and

astute businesswoman Budge

is now repeating the same demand that the players have already ignored.

Meanwhile, and not a million miles away, another club of similar size agreed a mutually satisfactory deal with its players several weeks ago.

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Originally Posted by Eyrie

Let me get this straight.

In the six weeks that have passed since the visionary Budge first demanded the players take pay cuts, nothing has happened and

astute businesswoman Budge

is now repeating the same demand that the players have already ignored.

Meanwhile, and not a million miles away, another club of similar size agreed a mutually satisfactory deal with its players several weeks ago.

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It's almost as if one club knows what it's doing and the other wings it

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Originally Posted by Eyrie

Let me get this straight.

In the six weeks that have passed since the visionary Budge first demanded the players take pay cuts, nothing has happened and

astute businesswoman Budge

is now repeating the same demand that the players have already ignored.

Meanwhile, and not a million miles away, another club of similar size agreed a mutually satisfactory deal with its players several weeks ago.

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To be honest, long term, their way might be for the best. Paying our players back at a later date although morally completely correct might lead to difficulties in the future. Their way of not doing that will save a lot of money if it comes off.

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Originally Posted by Iggy Pope

I’m not getting the gist of this one Liam.

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i'm self employed Stevie, no luck yet regarding renumeration of some sorts via HMRC. so it looks like I will lose my seat in the east which I've had since it's inception. It irks me to see that the Gorgie mob have identified this problem and are helping their fans accordingly.

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Originally Posted by 90+2

To be honest, long term, their way might be for the best. Paying our players back at a later date although morally completely correct might lead to difficulties in the future. Their way of not doing that will save a lot of money if it comes off.

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Thats my worry we do the morally right thing yet come December the Jambos have managed to get out of their financial obligations immorally but all is forgotten and they can still pay bigger salaries than us.

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Originally Posted by The Count

Thats my worry we do the morally right thing yet come December the Jambos have managed to get out of their financial obligations immorally but all is forgotten and they can still pay bigger salaries than us.

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They may struggle to sign players if players know a second outbreak will result in them not getting paid at all.
Honouring contracts is always the right way to go.


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Originally Posted by The Count

Thats my worry we do the morally right thing yet come December the Jambos have managed to get out of their financial obligations immorally but all is forgotten and they can still pay bigger salaries than us.

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Come December they might have the Championship wrapped up, the same way they did with the Premiership last season.

Using transfermarkt.com to look at the contracted players for next season.

1. Celtic - 30
2. The Rangers - 28
3. Hearts - 26
4. Aberdeen - 23
5. Livingston - 20
6. Hibernian - 19
7. St Johnstone - 15
8. Motherwell - 13
9. Ross County - 13
10. St Mirren - 13
11. Hamilton - 10
12. Kilmarnock - 9

Some clubs have bloated squads that will be costing them a fortune with potentially no income for months.

Hearts. The club that died summer 2020.



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Originally Posted by The Count

Thats my worry we do the morally right thing yet come December the Jambos have managed to get out of their financial obligations immorally but all is forgotten and they can still pay bigger salaries than us.

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Yep. Based on past history they alway come up stinking of roses.

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Originally Posted by Liam978

i'm self employed Stevie, no luck yet regarding renumeration of some sorts via HMRC. so it looks like I will lose my seat in the east which I've had since it's inception. It irks me to see that the Gorgie mob have identified this problem and are helping their fans accordingly.

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What is it that you want the club to do?

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Originally Posted by 90+2

To be honest, long term, their way might be for the best. Paying our players back at a later date although morally completely correct might lead to difficulties in the future. Their way of not doing that will save a lot of money if it comes off.

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Exactly. We run sustainably and use our resources doing the correct thing. They blow every penny they have and treat their players disgracefully.

In a few months we will be more or less in an equal position. Totally unfair.

It’s obviously nice being able to take the moral high ground but they should be punished if they can’t make their payroll this month or invoke article 12. It’s not fair in clubs who go about their business in the proper manner.

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Originally Posted by Keith_M

What is it that you want the club to do?

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I'm maybe just having a guess but how about extending the early bird option until a lot of self employed guys like myself get anything from this furloughed caper or how about letting us pay a retainer of some sort or how about even letting us ask if they could keep the guys seat he's obviously held for years until anyone has a clue about what year the league will start? If they can narrow that down to a month then if I can't afford my seat then please feel free to give to someone else

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Originally Posted by 90+2

To be honest, long term, their way might be for the best. Paying our players back at a later date although morally completely correct might lead to difficulties in the future. Their way of not doing that will save a lot of money if it comes off.

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Deferring wages is the right thing to do IMO, with the provision that we’re in unprecedented times and the landscape is ever changing. So we may need to review our deferred position at some point, but you would hope to have the players on side in that scenario and work with the club given our intent to try and minimise the impact to players for something they’re as much a victim of as the club is.

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Originally Posted by Eyrie

Let me get this straight.

In the six weeks that have passed since the visionary Budge first demanded the players take pay cuts, nothing has happened and

astute businesswoman Budge

is now repeating the same demand that the players have already ignored.

Meanwhile, and not a million miles away, another club of similar size agreed a mutually satisfactory deal with its players several weeks ago.

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As simple minded, drug-addled caravan dwellers, we can’t hope to understand Budge’s genius, but thankfully the FOH statement has clarified things:

1. The Hearts business plan is to try not to go bust during this pandemic
2. FOH agree that it’s a good idea not to go bust.

With such deceptively simple yet profound wisdom, it’s no surprise that Budge is known worldwide as the Sage of Midlothian.

Budge has been bleating about the SPFL changing their rules. I wonder if next she'll campaigning to get the rule re points deductions for Administration changed. Purely to protect the struggling lower division clubs you understand.

You do wonder why some of the players have not agreed to these wage cuts. The majority of the country are earning 80% of what they may normally earn so why are some of these under achieving players not doing their bit?

Someone on JKB just posted that they were hoping to get new players in to play in the cup when it starts up again. What planet have they come from?

Am I right in thinking that Hearts (unlike many other clubs) have a monthly stream of income from their fan base over and above anything else that may come in?

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Originally Posted by Liam978

i'm self employed Stevie, no luck yet regarding renumeration of some sorts via HMRC. so it looks like I will lose my seat in the east which I've had since it's inception. It irks me to see that the Gorgie mob have identified this problem and are helping their fans accordingly.

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Have you been in touch with the club? A bit unfair questioning Hibs loyalty to their fans if you haven’t.

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Originally Posted by Viva_Palmeiras

Am I right in thinking that Hearts (unlike many other clubs) have a monthly stream of income from their fan base over and above anything else that may come in?

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That’ll be their only income but it won’t cover anything near their bloated wage bill.

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Originally Posted by KeithTheHibby

You do wonder why some of the players have not agreed to these wage cuts. The majority of the country are earning 80% of what they may normally earn so why are some of these under achieving players not doing their bit?

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probably the likes of Berra and the others who were shafted in January.

Is it not normal for most players to have a clause in there contract where there wage will be cut to say 50% if relegated? If so, they could be relegated prior to the wages being paid next week?

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Originally Posted by duffers

Is it not normal for most players to have a clause in there contract where there wage will be cut to say 50% if relegated? If so, they could be relegated prior to the wages being paid next week?

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Wages are paid in arrears so it is premiership wages they are due next weeks. I read somewhere that relegation clauses usually allow for a 25% reduction and not all contracts have them.


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Originally Posted by Not In The Know

probably the likes of Berra and the others who were shafted in January.

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Must be more than just guys like that. I wonder if these players are looking at other clubs and seeing wages being deferred rather than cut and are thinking that would be fair? Who knows, it’s a real mess over at Tynecastle.


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Originally Posted by duffers

Is it not normal for most players to have a clause in there contract where there wage will be cut to say 50% if relegated? If so, they could be relegated prior to the wages being paid next week?

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Most well run clubs will have relegation clauses in contracts.

Poorly run clubs who think they are too big to be relegated might not. The likes of Boyce probably will, given relegation was a real danger when he signed. I’m not so sure all the players already there will have.

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Originally Posted by Not In The Know

probably the likes of Berra and the others who were shafted in January.

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Treating the players poorly, cold and uncaring has come back to bite them on the bum.

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

Most well run clubs will have relegation clauses in contracts.

Poorly run clubs who think they are too big to be relegated might not. The likes of Boyce probably will, given relegation was a real danger when he signed. I’m not so sure all the players already there will have.

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I would have though that Boyce would not have a relegation clause given how likely it was. Otherwise he could have just signed for Aberdeen and have no risk.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I would have though that Boyce would not have a relegation clause given how likely it was. Otherwise he could have just signed for Aberdeen and have no risk.


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Totally
Plus, hearts were desperate & deluded

Or as football agents call it "The Sweet Spot"