Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

I wonder if there are many wealthy football EBT users who would be willing to financially back Murray in an appeal to try and overturn this case and avoid a precedant being set.

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Is it not actually BDO, on behalf of the creditors, who would be the only ones likely to appeal? If there's no appeal HMRC will swallow up most of the pot leaving very little for anyone else. However if there's not a significant & influential creditor who stands to lose heavily I doubt BDO will have the inclination to appeal though morally perhaps they should.

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Originally Posted by brog

He actually, IMO, makes many good points but unfortunately much of it is undone by the guff in bold below. Maxing out the overdraft & credit card doesn't really account for stiffing creditors to the tune of £30m, including more than £2million to UK taxpayers. Strange also there's no mention of contracts & payments being funneled through Lithuania to allow Yams to avoid tax & buy players they could not otherwise afford! Now why does that sound familiar & is it sheer coincidence that Campbell (Teflon) Ogilvie was heavily involved with both Yams & Sevco at the time both clubs were flouting the rules & leaving a trail of debts?

Hearts, like many others, did (on a larger scale admittedly - and they shouldn't have) maxed out both overdraft and credit card.

They paid for it. They went into administration, took the massive points deduction that went with it, accepted their culpability and managed to appeal to the good grace of their creditors to negotiate a CVA that allowed them to get something back.

Far from ideal, and you would be hard-pressed to find a Hearts fan who is proud of what happened.

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Sorry, maxing the overdraft and credit card isn't criminal. Doing so with no intention of paying them off is. Maxing the cards and overdraft, then ripping off your friends and neighbours by running a fraudulent Christmas club scheme is. Trying to downplay their clubs criminality and their own culpability doesn't wash with me.

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Originally Posted by brog

Strange also there's no mention of contracts & payments being funneled through Lithuania to allow Yams to avoid tax & buy players they could not otherwise afford!

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Not strange at all. I would expect every Jambo on earth to ignore that aspect with every fibre of their horrible being.

There are of course hints at other scams, Skatchel's declared wages in court not quite matching up to what he was getting, the Hearts player who on applying for a mortgage telling the lender that his wages were in fact larger than was shown on the documentation he provided. Circumstantial and unprovable but if I were one of them (eeyuch) I'd be keeping my head under the parapet on this subject. They cheated Scottish football just as much as Rangers (rip) .

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Now why does that sound familiar & is it sheer coincidence that Campbell (Teflon) Ogilvie was heavily involved with both Yams & Sevco at the time both clubs were flouting the rules & leaving a trail of debts?

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We should approach the President of the SFA for clarification. Who holds that post these days?

I think there's some folk allowing their distrust, for want of a better word, to dismiss or lessen the importance of legitimate points raised by people that may be Yams, even if the ironing seems to be piling up!

If somehow the Scottish football authorities acted with integrity, follow following their own rules and precedents sevco will be hammered but importantly the blood letting is unlikely to stop there. The Yams could well be next on the hit list.

I'm quite happy for them to pepper the blog sphere, as I am for anyone with reasonable points to make, as I believe it will add to the pressure for the football authorities to do the right thing.

Aye OK it's the Scottish football authorities but even then I'm hopeful!

Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.


http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...b-statement-2/


THE SPFL Board has stated they held a conference call to be given a factual update on the Court of Session EBT ruling and so it would be remiss of the Rangers Board not to state the Club’s view.

The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

Our game has to become more attractive to potential sponsors and partners if the finance levels required are to be generated but this can only be done if we present a coherent and united strategy. Therefore, a line must be drawn now if we are all to prosper.

It is our irrevocable belief that this Club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history.

So, as far as this Club is concerned there is no need for further SPFL consideration of court judgements or appeals. They should be saying it is time for everyone to move on and work together for the greater good of the game. Scottish football has suffered enough.

....til next time.

Wow... The audacity to come out with a statement like that, I'de hammer them twice as hard now...

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Originally Posted by Kato

Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.


http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...b-statement-2/


THE SPFL Board has stated they held a conference call to be given a factual update on the Court of Session EBT ruling and so it would be remiss of the Rangers Board not to state the Club’s view.

The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

Our game has to become more attractive to potential sponsors and partners if the finance levels required are to be generated but this can only be done if we present a coherent and united strategy. Therefore, a line must be drawn now if we are all to prosper.

It is our irrevocable belief that this Club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history.

So, as far as this Club is concerned there is no need for further SPFL consideration of court judgements or appeals. They should be saying it is time for everyone to move on and work together for the greater good of the game. Scottish football has suffered enough.

....til next time.

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Oh dear me. They've spent the past three years bleating about the injustice of it all and making veiled threats about how other clubs are going to pay for treating Rangers so badly, but now it's all about working together for the good of Scottish football?

They are so insincere it is untrue. That history they bought for a fiver is tainted. I didn't think stripping titles is the answer but something needs to cut through their shocking arrogance.

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Originally Posted by Kato

Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.


http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...b-statement-2/


THE SPFL Board has stated they held a conference call to be given a factual update on the Court of Session EBT ruling and so it would be remiss of the Rangers Board not to state the Club’s view.

The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

Our game has to become more attractive to potential sponsors and partners if the finance levels required are to be generated but this can only be done if we present a coherent and united strategy. Therefore, a line must be drawn now if we are all to prosper.

It is our irrevocable belief that this Club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history.

So, as far as this Club is concerned there is no need for further SPFL consideration of court judgements or appeals. They should be saying it is time for everyone to move on and work together for the greater good of the game. Scottish football has suffered enough.

....til next time.

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... including the EBT years, then? :cb

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Originally Posted by EdinMike

Wow... The audacity to come out with a statement like that, I'de hammer them twice as hard now...

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I agree a 10 year ban for that club representing Scotland in European competition is in order. In addition the £250,000 fine which is overdue a 7 day penalty notice must be given whereafter a 1.5% per day charge should be imposed.

The part in bold...

the quickest most sure fire way to improve the promotion of Scottish football would be, quite simply

(1) end the two horse race and get a variety of potential winners (rangers use of ebt directly went against this)

and

(2) ban every single person who enters a football stadium then sings songs of hate, that have nothing to do with football.
They are not welcome on the streets of leith and I don't want these people (of all teams) being heard on my tv in my front room either.

kick out sectarianism, and get a 5 horse race for the title and you'll see much greater interest in the product

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Originally Posted by Kato

Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.


http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...b-statement-2/


THE SPFL Board has stated they held a conference call to be given a factual update on the Court of Session EBT ruling and so it would be remiss of the Rangers Board not to state the Club’s view.

The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

Our game has to become more attractive to potential sponsors and partners if the finance levels required are to be generated but this can only be done if we present a coherent and united strategy. Therefore, a line must be drawn now if we are all to prosper.

It is our irrevocable belief that this Club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history.

So, as far as this Club is concerned there is no need for further SPFL consideration of court judgements or appeals. They should be saying it is time for everyone to move on and work together for the greater good of the game. Scottish football has suffered enough.

....til next time.

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You could almost believe a statement like that could only come from a glib and shameless liar👀👀

I would love to know who writes and/or sanctions these statements. If ever I needed a PR firm Level 5 would be at the bottom of the list.

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Originally Posted by Kato

Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.


http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...b-statement-2/


THE SPFL Board has stated they held a conference call to be given a factual update on the Court of Session EBT ruling and so it would be remiss of the Rangers Board not to state the Club’s view.

The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

Our game has to become more attractive to potential sponsors and partners if the finance levels required are to be generated but this can only be done if we present a coherent and united strategy. Therefore, a line must be drawn now if we are all to prosper.

It is our irrevocable belief that this Club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history.

So, as far as this Club is concerned there is no need for further SPFL consideration of court judgements or appeals. They should be saying it is time for everyone to move on and work together for the greater good of the game. Scottish football has suffered enough.

....til next time.

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Putting aside the audacity of that statement it raises an important point

What would it take for the rest of Scottish football to draw a line in the sand and move on?

The continuous poison this is creating certainly makes it difficult for our game to move on and sell itself better.

Personally I'd like to see a negotiation on it - there's no way Rangers will agree to stripping of titles so what could they be willing to offer.

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

I would love to know who writes and/or sanctions these statements. If ever I needed a PR firm Level 5 would be at the bottom of the list.

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Level 5 are out, too expensive. Chris Graham doing their PR now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Level 5 are out, too expensive. Chris Graham doing their PR now.

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Not according to Grant Russell from STV. Jabba told assembled press no EBT questions before magic hats presser last week. Another wrong one for Phil.

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Originally Posted by Kato

Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.


http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...b-statement-2/

THE SPFL Board has stated they held a conference call to be given a factual update on the Court of Session EBT ruling and so it would be remiss of the Rangers Board not to state the Club’s view.

The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

Our game has to become more attractive to potential sponsors and partners if the finance levels required are to be generated but this can only be done if we present a coherent and united strategy. Therefore, a line must be drawn now if we are all to prosper.

It is our irrevocable belief that this Club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history.

So, as far as this Club is concerned there is no need for further SPFL consideration of court judgements or appeals. They should be saying it is time for everyone to move on and work together for the greater good of the game. Scottish football has suffered enough.

....til next time.

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Can I use the term "reach out"?

Use of the term is dependent on one question:

Are you a member of The Four Tops?
If Yes then you can use the term "reach out"
If No then unfortunately you cannot use the term "reach out" .

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Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee

Putting aside the audacity of that statement it raises an important point

What would it take for the rest of Scottish football to draw a line in the sand and move on?

The continuous poison this is creating certainly makes it difficult for our game to move on and sell itself better.

Personally I'd like to see a negotiation on it - there's no way Rangers will agree to stripping of titles so what could they be willing to offer.

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option a - "Rangers folded and we are a new club founded in 2012 using the assets of the club formerly known as Glasgow Rangers" everyone moves on.

option b - "We are Glasgow Rangers F.C, we cheated and gained a sporting advantage through the use of a tax avoidance scheme" Rangers stripped of titles won while using EBT's and an effort made to repay money owed to HMRC.

If they did either of these things i think the majority of scottish football fans would be satisfied and move on, but its rangers and thier arrogance and sense of entitlement means they expect to walk away from all liability to the concequences of cheating and living beyond thier means (screwing creditors and taxpayers in the process) while still retaining the history of a now-defunct football club and the achievements they gained through this systematic and deliberate cheating.

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Originally Posted by MyJo

option a - "Rangers folded and we are a new club founded in 2012 using the assets of the club formerly known as Glasgow Rangers" everyone moves on.

option b - "We are Glasgow Rangers F.C, we cheated and gained a sporting advantage through the use of a tax avoidance scheme" Rangers stripped of titles won while using EBT's and an effort made to repay money owed to HMRC.

If they did either of these things i think the majority of scottish football fans would be satisfied and move on, but its rangers and thier arrogance and sense of entitlement means they expect to walk away from all liability to the concequences of cheating and living beyond thier means (screwing creditors and taxpayers in the process) while still retaining the history of a now-defunct football club and the achievements they gained through this systematic and deliberate cheating.

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That would be illegal, as it gives preference to HMRC over all the other creditors. And RFC don't do illegal things. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

Not according to Grant Russell from STV. Jabba told assembled press no EBT questions before magic hats presser last week. Another wrong one for Phil.

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Yeah, I saw that. Their last couple of statements have been real amateur hour efforts though. Maybe they've scaled back the fat slug's involvement rather than got rid altogether?

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Originally Posted by VivaPalmeiras

Can I use the term "reach out"?

Use of the term is dependent on one question:

Are you a member of The Four Tops?
If Yes then you can use the term "reach out"
If No then unfortunately you cannot use the term "reach out" .

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And only the Four Tops can use the term...

Just walk away.

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Originally Posted by Kato

Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.

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Just read it to the end ...

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Scottish football has suffered enough.

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Genuine LOLZ moment there, priceless! :faf::not worth

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Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee

Putting aside the audacity of that statement it raises an important point

What would it take for the rest of Scottish football to draw a line in the sand and move on?

The continuous poison this is creating certainly makes it difficult for our game to move on and sell itself better.

Personally I'd like to see a negotiation on it - there's no way Rangers will agree to stripping of titles so what could they be willing to offer.

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There is merit in the argument that says RFC (old/new/whatever) have served their time. Just as many on here would have wished on Hearts, they had to start again at the bottom and play their way up. Whether they have done that in the "correct" manner, and learned the financial lessons of the past, has still to be played out.

There is also an argument that says that the lower end of Scottish football has benefited financially from the presence of the hordes, although whether the local police and communities of Peterhead, Annan et al would agree is another matter.

For me, and probably for many others, punishment is one thing, but contrition is another. Today's statement doesn't seem to indicate much of that; neither does their financial situation.

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Originally Posted by Kato

Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.


http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...b-statement-2/


THE SPFL Board has stated they held a conference call to be given a factual update on the Court of Session EBT ruling and so it would be remiss of the Rangers Board not to state the Club’s view.

The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

Our game has to become more attractive to potential sponsors and partners if the finance levels required are to be generated but this can only be done if we present a coherent and united strategy. Therefore, a line must be drawn now if we are all to prosper.

It is our irrevocable belief that this Club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history.

So, as far as this Club is concerned there is no need for further SPFL consideration of court judgements or appeals. They should be saying it is time for everyone to move on and work together for the greater good of the game. Scottish football has suffered enough.

....til next time.

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No shame, no remorse......Why don't you just admit you are a new Co, or Old Co but cheated the system, then shut the heck up......Arrogant bigots....

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Originally Posted by high bee

Nice balanced views on Sportscene from Steven Thompson and Stuart McCall. They both say rangers didn't cheat because the trophies were won on the park!? What does that even mean? Maybe they should take their heads out their backsides and realise the players on the park could only be afforded through EBTs.

They were quoting ex Celtic people like Martin O'Neill with the trophies were won on the park and apparently many across football agree. No mention of the majority of fans, players etc who think it was as clear a case of cheating as you can get.

Unfortunately I feel this is the type of bluff that the football authorities will hide behind and try to make out that their is no appetite for justice or that some who used to be at Celtic says it's ok so it must be.

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Completely embarassing, and yet totally expected.

The argument that the trophies were won on the park is laughable. By the same logic, Lance Armstrong won his trophies on his bike so they should still stand?

BBC at their best again though refusing to challenge it. Rangers won countless trophies by cheating. Yes they had the better team on the park, but the team was only assembled by cheating therefore the results are illegitimate.

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Originally Posted by Baldy Foghorn

No shame, no remorse......Why don't you just admit you are a new Co, or Old Co but cheated the system, then shut the heck up......Arrogant bigots....

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Like I said to someone the other day, it's a case of "You can't have your cake and eat it"

What are you !? Are you a new club with 2 division titles to your name or are and old club that accepts the debt it has to repay ?! If you are new, well those stars over your badge have to go.

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

Not according to Grant Russell from STV. Jabba told assembled press no EBT questions before magic hats presser last week. Another wrong one for Phil.

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John James recently said that due to the embarrassing recent statements that Level 5 were back in. That went well then! :greengrin

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Originally Posted by high bee

Nice balanced views on Sportscene from Steven Thompson and Stuart McCall. They both say rangers didn't cheat because the trophies were won on the park!? What does that even mean? Maybe they should take their heads out their backsides and realise the players on the park could only be afforded through EBTs.

They were quoting ex Celtic people like Martin O'Neill with the trophies were won on the park and apparently many across football agree. No mention of the majority of fans, players etc who think it was as clear a case of cheating as you can get.

Unfortunately I feel this is the type of bluff that the football authorities will hide behind and try to make out that their is no appetite for justice or that some who used to be at Celtic says it's ok so it must be.

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Thompson and McCall are Huns, so you wouldn't expect anything else from them. The likes of Martin O'Neill and other apologists will have some vested interest in keeping the Old Firm incest alive.

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Originally Posted by Jim44

Thompson and McCall are Huns, so you wouldn't expect anything else from them. The likes of Martin O'Neill and other apologists will have some vested interest in keeping the Old Firm incest alive.

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Even better than that, Thompson is a Hun who had an EBT and stands to lose a "winner's" medal from his 3 domestic honours with the old Huns. Pretty impartial viewpoint there ... :rolleyes:

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-ibrox-code/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by EdinMike

Like I said to someone the other day, it's a case of "You can't have your cake and eat it"

What are you !? Are you a new club with 2 division titles to your name or are and old club that accepts the debt it has to repay ?! If you are new, well those stars over your badge have to go.

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Exactly, time for them to decide who they really are?

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

There is merit in the argument that says RFC (old/new/whatever) have served their time. Just as many on here would have wished on Hearts, they had to start again at the bottom and play their way up. Whether they have done that in the "correct" manner, and learned the financial lessons of the past, has still to be played out.

There is also an argument that says that the lower end of Scottish football has benefited financially from the presence of the hordes, although whether the local police and communities of Peterhead, Annan et al would agree is another matter.

For me, and probably for many others, punishment is one thing, but contrition is another. Today's statement doesn't seem to indicate much of that; neither does their financial situation.

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But they haven’t served their time on the new charges.

If a murderer is in jail and other murders come to light he's back in court!

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Originally Posted by edinmike

wow... The audacity to come out with a statement like that, i'de hammer them twice as hard now...

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i demand the death penalty
shameless hun filth

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Originally Posted by Jack

But they haven’t served their time on the new charges.

If a murderer is in jail and other murders come to light he's back in court!

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The charges aren't new, though. This case has been around since before admin. It's only the fact that they continue to deny the charges, that keeps the case going.

I'm not disagreeing, BTW, I'm just exploring what kind of compromise, if any, might be reached.

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Originally Posted by brog

He actually, IMO, makes many good points but unfortunately much of it is undone by the guff in bold below. Maxing out the overdraft & credit card doesn't really account for stiffing creditors to the tune of £30m, including more than £2million to UK taxpayers. Strange also there's no mention of contracts & payments being funneled through Lithuania to allow Yams to avoid tax & buy players they could not otherwise afford! Now why does that sound familiar & is it sheer coincidence that Campbell (Teflon) Ogilvie was heavily involved with both Yams & Sevco at the time both clubs were flouting the rules & leaving a trail of debts?

Hearts, like many others, did (on a larger scale admittedly - and they shouldn't have) maxed out both overdraft and credit card.

They paid for it. They went into administration, took the massive points deduction that went with it, accepted their culpability and managed to appeal to the good grace of their creditors to negotiate a CVA that allowed them to get something back.

Far from ideal, and you would be hard-pressed to find a Hearts fan who is proud of what happened.

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Every Hearts supporter I know is proud of their Scottish Cup cheating win so it isn't that hard to find.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

There is merit in the argument that says RFC (old/new/whatever) have served their time. Just as many on here would have wished on Hearts, they had to start again at the bottom and play their way up. Whether they have done that in the "correct" manner, and learned the financial lessons of the past, has still to be played out.

There is also an argument that says that the lower end of Scottish football has benefited financially from the presence of the hordes, although whether the local police and communities of Peterhead, Annan et al would agree is another matter.

For me, and probably for many others, punishment is one thing, but contrition is another. Today's statement doesn't seem to indicate much of that; neither does their financial situation.

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They haven't been serving their time. They weren't 'relegated' or 'demoted' as a punishment for anything.

They folded, they went bust, and caused an almighty crisis for Scottish football. They were then given help to get back on their feat by immediate re admission to the League.

This issue is not about Rangers becoming bankrupt. It's about cheating.

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Originally Posted by PatHead

[/I]
Every Hearts supporter I know is proud of their Scottish Cup cheating win so it isn't that hard to find.

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:agree:

They couldn't give a toss. Nae shame.

Nothing will happen.

When they set up the EBTs they like lots of companies thought they were OK withe Revenue-the Revenue eventually didn't think so and for the time being have won their case.

As far as the side letters are concerned Rangers have been fined but have not paid the fine.The independent commission ridiculously decided that Rangers obtained no advantage on the playing field from their actions.That will not be revisited.

Don't think this has been heard before - the evidence of The Mysterious "Mr Black".

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...lverware/10066

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Originally Posted by Kato

Don't think this has been heard before - the evidence of The Mysterious "Mr Black".

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...lverware/10066

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Sitting on the fence as usual :greengrin

One little moan, though....."the former Rangers owners now face at last paying the British state the tax and NI they dodged for all those years."

No they won't.

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Originally Posted by Kato

Don't think this has been heard before - the evidence of The Mysterious "Mr Black".

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...lverware/10066

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I'm sure it'll be mentioned a few hundred or so pages ago. :wink:

The FTT findings were anonymised (when published, they didn't give their evidence wearing paper bags), colours for the management (Murray was Black, McLeish - Violet, Martin Bain, Scarlet, etc) and the players were towns (Barry Ferguson - Ipswich is the only one I remember for some reason).

Btw, guess who said ... ?

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Clearly, that is not for Charles Green to do. But I am happy to say that I really believe we should be saying sorry and I think there is something to be sorry about.
And as a former director when these things were going on, I am minded to do so.
With regard to EBTs, I was on the board so I have to take some responsibility.
And I follow the logic of the argument that if we lose the tax case then we probably gained some competitive advantage.
I believe that, on behalf of myself and most of the board members who were with me and probably agree with me, that we should apologise for that.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Btw, guess who said ... ?

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What a find. Looking forward to the reparations!

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

One little moan, though....."the former Rangers owners now face at last paying the British state the tax and NI they dodged for all those years."

No they won't.

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Er, why not? Surely if the HMRC have won the case and BDO don't appeal again, then HMRC have a claim against RFC(IL)? I realise they won't get all of it back, but won't they get a bigger payout from the Ticketus money which BDO obtained?

Or have I got it all wrong again?

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Originally Posted by grunt

Er, why not? Surely if the HMRC have won the case and BDO don't appeal again, then HMRC have a claim against RFC(IL)? I realise they won't get all of it back, but won't they get a bigger payout from the Ticketus money which BDO obtained?

Or have I got it all wrong again?

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Like you say, they won't get it all back. Last I saw, it was something like 13p in the £.

That blog seems to think they will. That's my only quibble with it.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Jim44

Thompson and McCall are Huns, so you wouldn't expect anything else from them. The likes of Martin O'Neill and other apologists will have some vested interest in keeping the Old Firm incest alive.

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Not all Celtic players, as they would have us believe, think that Sevco won fairly and squarely on the pitch. Ex-Celt, Darren O'Dea has said that they should be stripped of every tainted title.

Rangers apologists out in force tonight on Sportsound with Graham Spiers of all people being the only one to even consider that Rangers did anything wrong.

Stuart McCall sounding like a typical thick Gers pub bore.

I am a bit stupid so can someone please explain why The Rangers are talking about being stripped of THIER titles. Surely they are 2 different clubs. If they are the same club why will they not be liable for the big tax debt if they are found guilty. Why dont the press / media highlight this simple point. As i say i maybe missing the point please explain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sammy7nil

I am a bit stupid so can someone please explain why The Rangers are talking about being stripped of THIER titles. Surely they are 2 different clubs. If they are the same club why will they not be liable for the big tax debt if they are found guilty. Why dont the press / media highlight this simple point. As i say i maybe missing the point please explain.

---

Because the new club bought the history and titles of the old club.

They didn't bother buying the debts which were left with the old club.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Because the new club bought the history and titles of the old club.

They didn't bother buying the debts which were left with the old club.

---

They are the same club when it suits them. And a totally separate entity when it doesn't. Obviously. :wink:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Because the new club bought the history and titles of the old club.

They didn't bother buying the debts which were left with the old club.

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Really, i did not know that, obviously they are well within their rights to be miffed :wink:

Campbell Ogilvie is the link between this filthy, organised, dishonest and cheating behaiviour from Oldco and the SFA...proving that our national organisation set up to protect the game is directly involved in this illegal behaiviour...mark my words, the SFA do not want this EBT saga to be proven once and for all due to the spiders web of deciet caused by Ogilvie will unveil

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

There is merit in the argument that says RFC (old/new/whatever) have served their time. Just as many on here would have wished on Hearts, they had to start again at the bottom and play their way up. Whether they have done that in the "correct" manner, and learned the financial lessons of the past, has still to be played out.

There is also an argument that says that the lower end of Scottish football has benefited financially from the presence of the hordes, although whether the local police and communities of Peterhead, Annan et al would agree is another matter.

For me, and probably for many others, punishment is one thing, but contrition is another. Today's statement doesn't seem to indicate much of that; neither does their financial situation.

---

This is spot on for me ,There is absolutely no contrition in that statement ,and their arrogance knows no bounds
The fact they put out such a statement is telling everyone else you won't take our titles off us and it's time to move on They want to dictate to everyone else a position that suits them Why not just keep thier traps shut and leave the authorities to decide what if anything should be done
They will buy in the January Transfer window if they see us as a threat and yet again try and buy another title .The football authorities have no intention of taking them on and just wish Ashley would force their hand
But he is biding his time .
It's difficult for me to draw a line under it when they go on acting like this .
No doubt they will find money to strengthen their squad in January as well despite everything that's going on



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Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Libby Hibby

Campbell Ogilvie is the link between this filthy, organised, dishonest and cheating behaiviour from Oldco and the SFA...proving that our national organisation set up to protect the game is directly involved in this illegal behaiviour...mark my words, the SFA do not want this EBT saga to be proven once and for all due to the spiders web of deciet caused by Ogilvie will unveil

---

I wonder if Ogilvie has ambitions to take over from Sepp Blatter at FIFA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by high bee

Nice balanced views on Sportscene from Steven Thompson and Stuart McCall. They both say rangers didn't cheat because the trophies were won on the park!? What does that even mean? Maybe they should take their heads out their backsides and realise the players on the park could only be afforded through EBTs.

They were quoting ex Celtic people like Martin O'Neill with the trophies were won on the park and apparently many across football agree. No mention of the majority of fans, players etc who think it was as clear a case of cheating as you can get.

Unfortunately I feel this is the type of bluff that the football authorities will hide behind and try to make out that their is no appetite for justice or that some who used to be at Celtic says it's ok so it must be.

---

:agree: Yep McCall was slavering something about Rangers were winning on the "playing surface" I think he said. Nothing said about the club having an unfair financial advantage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JimBHibees

Well Thompson would he had an EBT for 475k when at Rangers.

---

Thompson looked to me to be quite uncomfortable (embarrassed or annoyed perhaps?) when the point was put to him and Dodds that many fans of other clubs are saying the Ibrox club should be stripped of titles won during the EBT years.

Thompson of course did not agree. As Mandy Rice Davies famously said..."he would say that, wouldn't he?"

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...lverware/10066

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Libby Hibby

Campbell Ogilvie is the link between this filthy, organised, dishonest and cheating behaiviour from Oldco and the SFA...proving that our national organisation set up to protect the game is directly involved in this illegal behaiviour...mark my words, the SFA do not want this EBT saga to be proven once and for all due to the spiders web of deciet caused by Ogilvie will unveil

---

Ogilvie was also operations director with Hearts during the tax dodging loan players from Kaunas FC period and the Rudi Skacel special deal with Vlad that we won't register with the SPL fraud.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kato

Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.


http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...b-statement-2/


THE SPFL Board has stated they held a conference call to be given a factual update on the Court of Session EBT ruling and so it would be remiss of the Rangers Board not to state the Club’s view.

The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

Our game has to become more attractive to potential sponsors and partners if the finance levels required are to be generated but this can only be done if we present a coherent and united strategy. Therefore, a line must be drawn now if we are all to prosper.

It is our irrevocable belief that this Club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history.

So, as far as this Club is concerned there is no need for further SPFL consideration of court judgements or appeals. They should be saying it is time for everyone to move on and work together for the greater good of the game. Scottish football has suffered enough.

....til next time.

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Proof that they've no remorse of the damage they've done to Scottish Football - SFA should use it as reason for either stripping their titles or just voiding the trophies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Ogilvie was also operations director with Hearts during the tax dodging loan players from Kaunas FC period and the Rudi Skacel special deal with Vlad that we won't register with the SPL fraud.

---

If the eventually do erase the trophy haul from Rangers then they have to strip at the very least the last Hearts cup win as it is on record in a court somewhere that Rudi was being paid a sum from Lithuania that the SFA/ SPL had no record of. This is exactly what Rangers received their £350k fine for. This would be pleasing as they could then "officially " ram their 5-1 caper.👍👍👍

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greenlex

If the eventually do erase the trophy haul from Rangers then they have to strip at the very least the last Hearts cup win as it is on record in a court somewhere that Rudi was being paid a sum from Lithuania that the SFA/ SPL had no record of. This is exactly what Rangers received their £350k fine for. This would be pleasing as they could then "officially " ram their 5-1 caper.[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

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That's why we chase Sevco. [emoji23]
You then let Sevco whataboutery do the rest. The SFA only listen to old firm fans.


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Sevco are saying that they simply won't accept any stripping of their titles. Now we know that the blazers are frightened of them, but, if they ever grow a pair and take action, do Sevco have any say in the matter?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jim44

Sevco are saying that they simply won't accept any stripping of their titles. Now we know that the blazers are frightened of them, but, if they ever grow a pair and take action, do Sevco have any say in the matter?

---

As the owner of a member of the SPFL and SFA, yep.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

That's why we chase Sevco. [emoji23]
You then let Sevco whataboutery do the rest. The SFA only listen to old firm fans.


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If the SFA announce they are going to revisit Rangers EBT cheating we have to supply chapter and verse on Hearts's Kaunas loan players and the Rudi Skacel special deal so it gets investigated at the same time.

These issues seem to have passed under the radar of the rest of Scottish football.

BBC Bluenose correspondent Richard Wilson with the "we've been punished enough" line. Starts getting tasty quarter of an hour in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p037m4h7

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

As the owner of a member of the SPFL and SFA, yep.

---

I can see that they will have member power and rights, but, if the other members unanimously vote for action against them, can they refuse to accept it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jim44

I can see that they will have member power and rights, but, if the other members unanimously vote for action against them, can they refuse to accept it?

---

I would doubt it.

It would be in character for them to take things to Court but, IIRC, the SFA rules forbid that as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greenginger

If the SFA announce they are going to revisit Rangers EBT cheating we have to supply chapter and verse on Hearts's Kaunas loan players and the Rudi Skacel special deal so it gets investigated at the same time. These issues seem to have passed under the radar of the rest of Scottish football.

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In fact one major blog is saying that the issues don't compare at all - I disagree with him. https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/20...tood-a-chance/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt

In fact one major blog is saying that the issues don't compare at all - I disagree with him. https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/20...tood-a-chance/

---

This bit:-

Hearts spent big, but they didn’t systematically avoid paying their social taxes. They didn’t leave themselves in a position where they were beyond the understanding of their creditors. And they didn’t get themselves into a postion where the validity of many of their player registrations for the best part of a decade is open to question.

In technical terms, kack.

He does, though, start pulling on a thread which, ultimately, may put the authorities off digging too deeply. If Hearts can be punished, aren't the others guilty as well? Livi (LC 04), Dundee (D1 wins), Gretna. ......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt

In fact one major blog is saying that the issues don't compare at all - I disagree with him. https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/20...tood-a-chance/

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That's what I was saying a few posts back. Scottish football is oblivious to what the Yams got up to.

Post on the Clumpany site and put them right or they'll get away with it again.

Hearts sought to "avoid" UK Tax by registering players with Kaunas then "loaning" them to Hearts even though the players might never have set foot in Lithuania. The players paid smoe UK tax and some in Lithuania. A court hearing on appeal from HMRC found this to be tax avoidance and claimed the back-dated legal taxes due to them from Hearts. Hearts were given time to pay this in installments but went into administration before the payments were finished.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

It's pretty simple, similar to the way Rangers avoided tax but the mechanism was different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Treadstone

BBC Bluenose correspondent Richard Wilson with the "we've been punished enough" line. Starts getting tasty quarter of an hour in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p037m4h7

---

Again, what punishment have they received to date?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jacomoseven

Again, what punishment have they received to date?

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People call them names, like Cheats, the now defunct Glasgow rangers, sevco, zombies, the team formerly known as Glasgow rangers, the rangers, the the huns etc. Feel free to add..............

That's in addition to all of the pre existing names that belong to the old liquidated club.

It's a bloody shame as they exemplify all that's good about our country, in the seventeenth century anyway.

It's time to call a halt to all these false accusations and name calling. Honestly, the new Rangers are really nice...

“The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...#ixzz3r5dP8pZA

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jacomoseven

Again, what punishment have they received to date?

---

I think these are the penalties accumulated due to the Old Huns' cheating:

- 10 pt penalty for entering admin
- £160K fines in total for how they ended up in admin
- 12 month registration ban
- £250K fine for EBT registration dodginess

Of those, the 160K and 12 month signing ban were taken on by the New Huns in exchange for being allowed to transfer the SFA membership of the Old Huns (the infamous 5 way agreement). Of course, the SFA then rolled over and bent their own rules by shifting the signing ban until after the transfer window. :rolleyes:

The SPL share of the Old Huns wasn't transferred (note, this was not a punishment) but the New Huns were fast tracked into the SFL.

The £250K fine is disputed by the New Huns (nowt to do with us, we're just the same club :rolleyes: ).

... and anyway, they're not having it. Hope that is clear?


“It is our irrevocable belief that this club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this club has achieved throughout its long history."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

I would doubt it.

It would be in character for them to take things to Court but, IIRC, the SFA rules forbid that as well.

---

I think the rules state that the Court of Arbitration for Sport should be the appeal body before the law is brought in.

However, they've ignored that rule once before and weren't punished for it. It was a disgrace that when they went to Court and overturned their transfer embargo the SFA tribunal never reconvened to suspend or expel them.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/20105317

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/h...r-three-years/

Not a single penny of this tax was paid.
HMRC ruled the scheme illegal just like they have done with Rangers use of EBT's.
Most Rangers fans are too stupid to do the research though.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/20105317

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/h...r-three-years/

Not a single penny of this tax was paid.
HMRC ruled the scheme illegal just like they have done with Rangers use of EBT's.
Most Rangers fans are too stupid to do the research though.

---

Not just Rangers fans. Doesn't fit the narrative of "The Clumpany" so they just disregard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Sarf

... and anyway, they're not having it. Hope that is clear?


“It is our irrevocable belief that this club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this club has achieved throughout its long history."

---

A level of certainty reminiscent of the founding members of the Flat Earth Society.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Treadstone

BBC Bluenose correspondent Richard Wilson with the "we've been punished enough" line. Starts getting tasty quarter of an hour in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p037m4h7

---

Interesting. I think one issue that wasn't covered is that relating to what was the ultimate purpose behind the use of EBTs.

They established the fact that EBTs themselves are not illegal and that the way Rangers used them was. There was then chat about the fact that it may not be considered to be cheating if, at the time the schemes were set up, Rangers believed there actions to be within the law. The argument was made that this is different from, say, doping in athletics where those involved are fully aware that they are operating outside the rules to improve their performance.

I think a more important point - and one that HMRC are allowed to take into account - is what was the ultimate purpose behind the scheme. If the ultimate purpose was essentially to avoid the payment of taxes it is not deemed to be a legitimate business transaction. In the eyes of HMRC ignorance is not a valid defence either. This principle was in place long before RFC used EBTs and professional advisers would be expected to have known this.

The appeal established that use of the EBTs by RFC gained them a sporting advantage which, by definition, penalises other competitors.

IF RFC engaged in transactions - the main purpose of which was to avoid paying tax - what would be their motivation for doing that? I can't see how it can be claimed that it was anything other than to gain an advantage over their competitors by facilitating the employment of better players than they would otherwise have been possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

Not just Rangers fans. Doesn't fit the narrative of "The Clumpany" so they just disregard.

---

Of course. If you post this on Scottish Football Monitor etc they totally ignore. They are only interested in hammering Rangers or Sevco.
If we want this taken up it will have to be Rangers fans hoping that it saves them.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Of course. If you post this on Scottish Football Monitor etc they totally ignore. They are only interested in hammering Rangers or Sevco.
If we want this taken up it will have to be Rangers fans hoping that it saves them.


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---

Or feed the Sevco press the facts on Hearts tax cheating.

Gavin Barry in the Daily Record mentioned the yams tax bill but according to him it was just overspending and running out of money.

I'm sure they will start highlighting the Hearts tax business if we give them the info.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/20105317

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/h...r-three-years/

Not a single penny of this tax was paid.
HMRC ruled the scheme illegal just like they have done with Rangers use of EBT's.
Most Rangers fans are too stupid to do the research though.


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---

p in £ CVA must have paid a tiny proportion?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

p in £ CVA must have paid a tiny proportion?

---

As will the liquidation of old Rangers.


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Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

p in £ CVA must have paid a tiny proportion?

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Not a cent went to HMRC. Ukio Bankas as secured creditor got the lot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Treadstone

BBC Bluenose correspondent Richard Wilson with the "we've been punished enough" line. Starts getting tasty quarter of an hour in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p037m4h7

---

Sporting integratey,cheating,unfair advantage,breaking the law and punished enough.
All of the above statements are clouding the real issue and creating debate that is not necessary.
1)players wages declared with the SFA were false.
2)these players(acording to SFA rules)then become ineligible.
3)SFA rules state,if a player is ineligible then the game played in is awarded to the opposing team 3-0.
As it stands at the moment,the courts have declared that EBT loans were earnings,so none of the above points I have made are indispute.
no investigations,no meetings and no voting.
apply the rules,end of!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Glesgahibby

Sporting integratey,cheating,unfair advantage,breaking the law and punished enough.
All of the above statements are clouding the real issue and creating debate that is not necessary.
1)players wages declared with the SFA were false.
2)these players(acording to SFA rules)then become ineligible.
3)SFA rules state,if a player is ineligible then the game played in is awarded to the opposing team 3-0.
As it stands at the moment,the courts have declared that EBT loans were earnings,so none of the above points I have made are indisputable.
no investigations,no meetings and no voting.
apply the rules,end of!!!!

---

Similarly with Rudi Skacel. His registered contract was for 190,000 Euro/year ( about £ 3000/week probably one of the lowest in the Yam squad )

His agent claimed his 10 % fee on wage of 290,000 Euro/year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

I think these are the penalties accumulated due to the Old Huns' cheating:

- 10 pt penalty for entering admin
- £160K fines in total for how they ended up in admin
- 12 month registration ban
- £250K fine for EBT registration dodginess

Of those, the 160K and 12 month signing ban were taken on by the New Huns in exchange for being allowed to transfer the SFA membership of the Old Huns (the infamous 5 way agreement). Of course, the SFA then rolled over and bent their own rules by shifting the signing ban until after the transfer window. :rolleyes:

The SPL share of the Old Huns wasn't transferred (note, this was not a punishment) but the New Huns were fast tracked into the SFL.

The £250K fine is disputed by the New Huns (nowt to do with us, we're just the same club :rolleyes: ).

---

Thanks for summary. The Rangers will presumably argue that £250k fine covers everything related to EBTs.

The rest is all about the club going bust, and nothing to do with EBTs.

So, as they haven't paid the £250k fine, and it is now common sense that they gained an unfair sporting advantage through the EBTs, now it is time for a punishment to be enforced. The precedent had been set.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Glesgahibby

Sporting integratey,cheating,unfair advantage,breaking the law and punished enough.
All of the above statements are clouding the real issue and creating debate that is not necessary.
1)players wages declared with the SFA were false.
2)these players(acording to SFA rules)then become ineligible.
3)SFA rules state,if a player is ineligible then the game played in is awarded to the opposing team 3-0.
As it stands at the moment,the courts have declared that EBT loans were earnings,so none of the above points I have made are indisputable.
no investigations,no meetings and no voting.
apply the rules,end of!!!!

---

That's completely wrong.
All of the above points you have made are indisputable. :wink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greenginger

Similarly with Rudi Skacel. His registered contract was for 190,000 Euro/year ( about £ 3000/week probably one of the lowest in the Yam squad )

His agent claimed his 10 % fee on wage of 290,000 Euro/year.

---

Good point GG:aok:
the problem is,someone has to complain to the SFA(with written factual proof)sounds like a job for Sergey:greengrin
the Rangers case differs because the proof is highlited every day this debate continues.
As I have said before,the SFA has to protect itself against legal action from basically anyone who feels they were financially disadvantaged.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

That's completely wrong.
All of the above points you have made are indisputable. :wink:

---

just noticed that:greengrin
cheers!!

So want punishment do people want our club to tell the SFA to impose on the rangers for "improper conduct" ? I would suggest void all titles/cups won and a 10 year European ban. Thoughts ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by southsider

So want punishment do people want our club to tell the SFA to impose on the rangers for "improper conduct" ? I would suggest void all titles/cups won and a 10 year European ban. Thoughts ?

---

Sure. Plus a points deduction, say, 20 points. Just because.

EDIT: Seeing as The Rangers are refusing to countenance any stripping of their titles, how about a points deduction for every season they cheated through EBTs? This should be meaningful, so probably more than 20 points, this season and every season for the next decade, regardless of which division they are in?

Sadly, imho, all this talk of the Hun being punished, titles\trophies stripped etc, etc is just that - talk !!, As we all KNOW - the GFA will NOT do anything !!. Like the last time, there was no appetite\bottle from them or the chairmen of the SPL clubs to properly punish the Hun UNTIL it was made clear to them by US - the fans - that if they didn't, the game was f××××d !!

What's needed now is a repeat, for all of the fans to get together once again, and demand that the Hun are properly punished for cheating !!. If we don't, then once again, the Hun walk away laughing !.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by southsider

So want punishment do people want our club to tell the SFA to impose on the rangers for "improper conduct" ? I would suggest void all titles/cups won and a 10 year European ban. Thoughts ?

---

With regard to the league they should follow the precedent they set with Livingston with a fine and points deduction. They could go the whole hog and use the international precedents where ineligible players, as that is what the EBT players have become, are played the results are amended to a 3 nil defeat. They should also be fined the difference of what they received, in terms of prize money, and what they should have received with the revised league placing.

With regard to cup competitions they should follow the precedents set in numerous cases where the offending club has been thrown out. Again they should be fined all prize money received.

There should also be an additional fine, or percentage added to these fines, for punitive damages.

The players can keep their medals, the club would lose its honours.

A ban from future cups in Scotland and European competition should also be considered for a similar period to their cheating seems appropriate.

Not seen anything that indicates the SFA are moving on this at all - which is unsurprising as the guy at the top is the same one who was in the room when the tax/sport cheating plan was put into place.

Ogilvie has to go.

Wonder what the HFC official position is on this?

Have to say that Clumpany was bang on: oh for a Turnbull Hutton character to step forward and represent the views publicly of the many fans who have seen the last 10+ years as a charade of a competition. Somehow, I feel the blazers will close ranks and the calls for action will be left for people on the internet, whose view of this will be written off as them having an agenda or simply that they're obsessed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jack

With regard to the league they should follow the precedent they set with Livingston with a fine and points deduction. They could go the whole hog and use the international precedents where ineligible players, as that is what the EBT players have become, are played the results are amended to a 3 nil defeat. They should also be fined the difference of what they received, in terms of prize money, and what they should have received with the revised league placing.

With regard to cup competitions they should follow the precedents set in numerous cases where the offending club has been thrown out. Again they should be fined all prize money received.

There should also be an additional fine, or percentage added to these fines, for punitive damages.

The players can keep their medals, the club would lose its honours.

A ban from future cups in Scotland and European competition should also be considered for a similar period to their cheating seems appropriate.

---

Big difference was that Livingston brought their transgressions to the attention of the SPFL and were dealt with leniently because of this.

Shut them down for not paying footballing debts in the form of the fine as had been agreed. Sod this deduct points and fines malarkey.

Also don't see what The Rangers are getting upset about as it wasn't them - it was the old, deceased club that are affected.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by steakbake

Not seen anything that indicates the SFA are moving on this at all - which is unsurprising as the guy at the top is the same one who was in the room when the tax/sport cheating plan was put into place.

Ogilvie has to go.

Wonder what the HFC official position is on this?

Have to say that Clumpany was bang on: oh for a Turnbull Hutton character to step forward and represent the views publicly of the many fans who have seen the last 10+ years as a charade of a competition. Somehow, I feel the blazers will close ranks and the calls for action will be left for people on the internet, whose view of this will be written off as them having an agenda or simply that they're obsessed.

---

Ogilvie has gone.


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Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Ogilvie has gone.


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---

Yip as of the 9th June, replaced by Alan McRae of Cove Rangers. Our own RP reelected as Vice-President.

wonder why CO left so quietly??? Hmmm impending Sevco doom? I'll bet he knew what was coming and did one ............ >>>>>>>>>>>>>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Not a cent went to HMRC. Ukio Bankas as secured creditor got the lot.

---

****, course they did. I've gone rusty on the details of Yam dodginess. :embarrass

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrSmith

Yip as of the 9th June, replaced by Alan McRae of Cove Rangers. Our own RP reelected as Vice-President.

wonder why CO left so quietly??? Hmmm impending Sevco doom? I'll bet he knew what was coming and did one ............ >>>>>>>>>>>>>

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He left very quietly! Had no idea.

Still wonder what Hibs' position is on the saga and what might happen once the SFA start their no doubt robust and forensic evaluation of the situation.