To be fair to Mike Ashley, I can't remember Newcastle ever being successful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
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To be fair to Mike Ashley, I can't remember Newcastle ever being successful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
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Exactly. MA taking control at The Rangerz would be bad news for us, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Fortunately, David 'under funded / over investment' King is digging his heels in.
'Its clear that every penny went to the benevolent fund' says some rent a gob.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoxtonhibby
Except that the items apparently had this printed on them: 'A contribution goes to the benevolent fund.'
That doesn't mean the same as every penny, does it? Normally you use this phrase when you are not sure what the charitable donation will be, or if it is only made after a profit. If they sold 10,000 of them, just 10p from every minimum £1 donation would get them to their 'four figure' donation.
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/...would-be-king/
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No idea who these people are but:
SPFL News Now @SPFLTransfer 1h1 hour ago
Rangers edging closer to Administration according to some inside reports....more to come on this...
I'd accept a 15 point deduction, on the proviso that Dave King, john Greig and Walter Smith stand on the steps of Ibrox and solemnly declare:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibee87
'This is a new club, formed in 2012. The stars on the shirt are a fraud. They refer to the old Rangers, and that one is dead.'
Could someone remind me who John James is pls..background/angle/credibility..?
Ta
It varies depending on who is talking about him. To some, he's a Celtic mole who has no inside information and is just a stirrer. To others, he's a Rangers man who is concerned about the future of his club. To the rest, he's just a guy who happens to post about Rangers stuff online but they're not sure who he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by ano hibby
Apparently, he's a SE England based business man with lots of time on his hands. Reading the comments, it seems that some TRFC fans do think he has some credibility, but perhaps that's just the comments he allows. He bans Celtic fans from leaving comments.
ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by steakbake
I'd rather play by the rules and have a 25 point penalty, this season and next.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomoseven
Bu then I've always had sympathy with the argument that they're the same club. :cb
He also "moderates" comments which are either critical or questioning. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by steakbake
I like your style but a 15 point deduction is not allowed under SFA rules. Admin 2 for The The rangers brings about a 25 point deduction. Bring it on !Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomoseven
That, too...Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
His writing style is remarkably similar to Phil MacG.Quote:
Originally Posted by ano hibby
Quote:
Originally Posted by haagsehibby
Not really, some of his paragraphs have more than 3 lines ! :greengrin
Rips ma knitting :)Quote:
Originally Posted by steakbake
He's let a couple of mine through that are mildly supportive, or which suit his agenda.
Most, though, are questioning (and not necessarily in a critical sense. I'm usually looking for clarification). Those get dumped.
Hahaha yeah, Phil writes like the Daily Record stenographers that he regularly criticises.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
That is to say, one sentence paragaphs.
Unless of course, he's talking about people.
In which case, he likes to use their full names - like Mr David Cunningham King.
Helps to explain things to the hard of thinking.
There's a copy of a letter kicking about on Twitter, MA essentially demanding an EGM.
Call me cynical but is that report not just an excuse to promote the boycott? Daily Record doing the bidding.....as ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
You?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
:na na:
Hey CWG. Check this.........Ashley letterQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Attachment 15600
And here it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by green glory
Ta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
If that's genuine, it's a beauty :)
I have no idea what damage that letter can do, but I noticed its dated last Monday. Is that not when dave king had his emergency stop over in Glasgow :confused:
Surely it would have some sort of official company headed paper or something? Not just standard A4 fired out someone's printer???Quote:
Originally Posted by Weststandwanab
Looks genuine & I agree! Ashley doing SFA/SPFL's job!Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Who are Ben Nevis holdings and what have they been up to?
Not necessarily it is Ashley you are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
That was the scan I was sent and did not type, nor more importantly, sign it as Ashley.
This case goes back years, AFAIK.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
http://swarb.co.uk/ben-nevis-holding...a-23-may-2013/
https://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.c...dings-ltd-ors/
The letter does have the tax case citation wrong, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weststandwanab
http://swarb.co.uk/ben-nevis-holding...a-23-may-2013/
Is it a photo shop of the previous letter or does this prove it is an official document.......previous was on Daily Record site.....
Attachment 15602
Attachment 15603
You decide.
Stop teasing :hyperQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibee87
Mike Ashley is the sole director of Mash holdings Ltd. Maybe thinks there's no need to have headed paper.
Maybe he's hoping to put the Rangers crest on it?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Official communications still need certain information.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
https://www.gov.uk/running-a-limited...ional-material
In that light, those letters wouldn't get much serious attention.
I've had a wee look at Betfair and it'll take £156 to squeeze the market depth on Hibs to win the championship. Nothing sets bum squeaking more than a price colllapse on the team most likely to profit from a Sevco misfortune.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
The letter has the Company name and registered address but not the company registration number. The letter we see may have come with a covering letter with all the info.
The signature is at least a good copy of Mike Ashley's scrawly signature on his accounts , if not the real thing.
To those of us who either do not bet, or like me put £1 on at the stadium on Riordan/Fletcher/Cummings to score the first goal, what does that actually mean ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Treadstone
Currently there is the availability to bet £113 at 7.2 (just over 6/1). When that £113 goes the next price moves up the ladder ( currently only £13 available at just over 5s) and so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weststandwanab
Usually ante post markets give a good guide to form/fitness/intentions for horses. People close to stables or info can make a few quid with little or no risk.
Balls to that. Same club = MINUS 25.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomoseven
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Treadstone
Now if this comes to pass it will be a dilemma for your average Sevconian.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyM_1875
If they are the same club (Keep all the badges) 25 points but if they want to take 15 points they will have to admit they are only 3 years old and surrender the badges.
Excuse the No Surrender pun.
Win Win? ;) brill!Quote:
Originally Posted by Weststandwanab
I'm with you on this only I'd go a wee bit further.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomoseven
After making your statement I'd like to see them lead a selection of good Rangers men (including but not limited to Ally McCoist, Mark Hateley, Richard Gough, Andy Cameron, Noel Edmonds, Maggie Thatcher, Adolf Hitler and Fred West) in a big performance of the dance from Michael Jackson's Thriller.
Rule E5 of SPFL
Where a Club, whether owned and operated by the same or a different Member, suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event which results in a deduction of points in terms of these Rules and within 5 years of the date of such Insolvency Event suffers or is subject to a further Insolvency Event which is not part of the same Insolvency Process as the Insolvency Event then suffered, the points deduction applicable in terms of Rules E1 in respect of that second or further Insolvency Event, shall be 25 points with the 15 points in Rules E2 and E3 being 25 Points.
Looks to me that the debate over old or new club doen't come into it. -25 points.
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Weststandwanab
Administration would have Rangers second bottom and on 8 points..:wink:.
How would a second admin work? Is it simply a case of the bank balance hitting 0, with no overdraft?
Ashley £5M loan aside, who else would they owe money to? Surely anyone working with them would demand payments up front.
If it's just mike, does he have final say over any post admin agreements?
Cmon the multi quotes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Weststandwanab
Not seen many posts lately.
I wouldn't bank on that assumption. I bet there are lots of companies dealing with Sevco on a normal basis despite their previous record. Look at the situation with Heriot Watt and the Jambos. They were falling over themselves to let the Jambos continue to use the training facilities even after being shafted rotten for thousands of pounds. I think I've got that right.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbytam
BTW rules changed they will get 25 points irrespective of old or new club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weststandwanab
There's no argument IMO. It's 25 points. The rules are clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weststandwanab
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Not sure how true this is but heard that HWU has been promised a substantial amount of money to get their sports area redeveloped and up to a set standard because of community use which includes them using the place that's why they are happy to let them re-use the facilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
Not saying any of this is true but you never know.
GGTTH
And to add to the Sevco news ......
http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk...ngs-and-others
Big Tax Case decisions announced tomorrow.
Will that have any impact on the new rangers?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Not directly.Quote:
Originally Posted by bingo70
It may have an impact on the dividend to creditors, of whom King is one. In that light, it would affect the amount that he could invest in the club.
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If they have been living hand to mouth for a while, which most companies who have problems do, it's likely that the creditors list will be pretty big. Not sure if it will be as big as the last time, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbytam
As for any administration, MASH is a secured creditor, so wouldn't have any say in a CVA. It would be down to the ordinary creditors to decide on that. As ever, HMRC would be a major player.
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I thought King had his claim as a creditor rejected by BDO a couple of weeks ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Probably when you were swanning about on your hols. :greengrin
Not if the Herald is to be believed ...Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
RANGERS chairman Dave King has had a claim for millions from the £18 million club oldco creditors pot thrown out by liquidators.
http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/13716072.Rangers_chairman_has_multi_million_claim_ on___18m_oldco_creditors_pot_rejected/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Even blue-nose media say it was rejected.
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/inde...owtopic=287528
Ah i forgot that.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Chinese telly reported that Socialist hero Dave "Fidel " King was winning the class war against the running dogs of imperialism.
Okay....scratch my earlier reply. Don't think it will make any difference to the current company.
[emoji6]
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Ah, shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
:wink:
Indeed but they may try and wait until they are further ahead before accepting the 25 points assuming they last that long.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyM_1875
Complain when I do and then complain when I don't, what does that remind you of ?Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
Yes, sorry I forgot about that change.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
Yes, you are correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
@alextomo: The ever-helpful HMRC have written : "Good evening Alex, the Rangers judgment is out tomorrow."
Would HMRC know the result by now? Could their willingness to notify journo's be an indication they got a positive result?
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They're merely stating fact - that's how I read it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
He's probably just asked if they've got the judgement and they've palmed him off with a bog-standard reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Saw a few comments on Twitter and Facebook saying that the Ibrox Faithful are desperate for money and that the club could hit their 1st ever administration (formed 2012)
Anyone else heard these malicious rumours 😆😆
They are totally strapped but I hear that another administration is not imminent. I say 'another' as the invertebrate SFA reckon they are the same club that liquidated in 2012. If they do go into admin, we should thank the SFA for holding that view because it will cost them 25 points this time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torto7062
That can't be true.
Mark Warburton and Dave King have told us that they're going to be competing with Celtic next season for the Premiership title and the season after that, they'll be in the Champions League.
Anything on the jungle drums about whether they are close?Quote:
Originally Posted by magpie1892
Not going to happen :rolleyes:
I think I would die of laughter if they went into admin (again/for the first time).
It would guarantee league reconstruction but sadly it's not going to happen
Dave King's off the radar millions will keep them going. Despite not putting 2 pence into the club yet.
To be honest, stories like this is beginning to sound repetitive and discussion of them seems desperate. We've had years of discussing teams finances like some sort of football edition of Dragons Den.
Let's get back to talking about what happens on the park. Besides, where would the fun be in pipping Der Hun to the title if they lose 25 points?
Personally, I would say that winning the title by 24 points in such circumstances would be terrific fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Centre Hawf
No chance
Agree 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S
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We can multitask [emoji6]Quote:
Originally Posted by Centre Hawf
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http://linkis.com/dailyrecord.co.uk/cLbUS
December 9th King V Ashley in the High court in London
Also confirmation of Phil MacGiollabhains claim that they all attended Ashley's HQ.
He has a terrible writing style but very good sources.
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I see they have published their accounts.
Do you have a link, Billy? They're not on the Companies House site yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
Here is the link to the page their annual report is at the foot of the page. Another big loss of 7.5M
£7.5m loss according to Chris McLaughlin, to June 2015. Down from £8.1m previous year lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Saw a lot of this last night too. Did a bit of digging and it seems to have emanated from an SPFL news page which is very obviously a Celtic troll site. So doubt it is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torto7062
http://rangers.co.uk/wp/wp-content/u...Report2015.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I know his grandson pretty well. Lawyer and top guy actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan62
All these Rangers groups have to have some mention of sons or loyal or order. Mental in this day and age.
ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
Quick look over them, as I'm due elsewhere.
Audit Report , as I suspected, isn't qualified. They have clearly accepted the financial undertakings given by the Board. More fool them?
Balance Sheet total 43-44m. Almost exactly the same as the property value. That's not a good sign.
More later.
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2015 Financials.
£ 10 million loss on a £16 million turnover. Still a financial basketcase.
They need £2.5m to finish the season. £7.5m if Mike Ashley have anything to do with it. Chuck in a Green's expenses and Kings to defend himself in December and your looking at a big chunk of money required to get to May.
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The 2014-15 revenue included money from the Commonwealth games and also from SFA games played at Ibrox while Hampden was unavailable. That won't be available this season.
I'm surprised by the note to the accounts that up to £2.5m will be required to complete the current season. Given that the operating loss last season was £9m that seems rather low even though gate receipts are up and they've a smaller playing squad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballengeich
They also needed a share issue of £ 3.1 million, a transfer fee of £ 900K, Ashley's £ 5 million loan and the 3 bears £ 4 million loan.
They had £ 1 million to start the year, so they burned £ 12 million.
Cant they just deduct that 2.5 mill out of Kings 30 odd?
:greengrin
Accounts also show they have still not paid the £250k fine due to the league for their involvement in EBT's. A clear breach of the 5 way agreement.
How many other clubs would get away with not paying their fines?
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Chris Musson @camusson 47s48 seconds ago Ruling: Rangers' Murray era trust payments scheme was “a mere redirection of emoluments or earnings” and therefore "subject to income tax”
HMRC wins big tax case
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“Furthermore, so far as the footballers are concerned, at least, it seems to us that if bonuses had not been paid they might well have taken their services elsewhere. We realise that the fifth respondent [RFC 2012] was in, potentially, a difficult financial position, competing for good players in an international market where other countries may not have the same rigorous approach to taxation as the United Kingdom. Nevertheless, the law is clear: the payments made in respect of footballers were in our view derived from their employment and thus the payments were emoluments or earnings.”
Important paragraph from judgement. They cheated to get better players.
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HMRC win appeal, link to statement ...
http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk...ngs-and-others
This part.
“It seems to us to be self-evident that the obligations in the side-letter were part of the employee’s employment package, and provided him with additional remuneration. They were negotiated as part of the total employment package…Once it is accepted that the bonus payments represented consideration for a footballer’s services qua employee, it inevitably follows that those payments represented emoluments or earnings of the footballer in question.
“Furthermore, so far as the footballers are concerned, at least, it seems to us that if bonuses had not been paid they might well have taken their services elsewhere. We realise that the fifth respondent [RFC 2012] was in, potentially, a difficult financial position, competing for good players in an international market where other countries may not have the same rigorous approach to taxation as the United Kingdom. Nevertheless, the law is clear: the payments made in respect of footballers were in our view derived from their employment and thus the payments were emoluments or earnings.”
...shows Rangers cheated. Something the SFA has denied but was and is clearly against the rules then and now.
So...what does this mean then? Whats this going to cost them?
Can they just appeal it?
Nothing to the new club but makes a mockery of the Lord nimmo smith hearings.Quote:
Originally Posted by easty
There is nobody left to appeal.
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All seems a bit pointless if it's not going to cost the newco anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Shouldn't Oldco now be stripped of the trophies and titles won while using EBTs?