Willie Collum and media gaslighting

What gets me is how the narrative from the media for the Celtic one was that it couldn't be conclusively proven that it was over the line and that because of the angle it could appear to be over when it actually wasn't. Meaning the onfield decision should stand. Now with this one for Rangers there's no mention of it needing to be proven conclusively, the angle making it look more over than it is or that VAR shouldn't overrule the onfield decision.

I think what it does prove conclusively is that the media side with the big 2 Glasgow teams, even if it means there's a contradiction.

I think both the Celtic and Rangers ones were over so the officials got the 1st one right and Saturday's wrong. Whether or not Rocky was fouled is a different matter and tbh I don't see much of a push. Looks like 2 players jostling but I'll gladly take one in our favour. I expect it will be a long time before we get another against them, with many iffy ones going their way in the meantime.

Not sure if this image has been shown anywhere yet but it’s exactly why the camera angels our VAR system had cannot conclusively say the ball crossed the line.

Left image is the Hibs v Rangers game and controversial incident, declared inconclusive.

Right image is the Man City v Liverpool game a few seasons back, goal decision system showing the ball didn’t fully cross the line, by around something like a millimetre.

I’m not saying this is proof that Rangers didn’t score, but that the camera angles can be very deceiving. I think we would all agree that at first look both those balls look way over the line, but only tech like GDS can ultimately prove it.

A couple other images showing just how deceptive camera angles can be

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

Not sure if this image has been shown anywhere yet but it’s exactly why the camera angels our VAR system had cannot conclusively say the ball crossed the line.

Left image is the Hibs v Rangers game and controversial incident, declared inconclusive.

Right image is the Man City v Liverpool game a few seasons back, goal decision system showing the ball didn’t fully cross the line, by around something like a millimetre.

I’m not saying this is proof that Rangers didn’t score, but that the camera angles can be very deceiving. I think we would all agree that at first look both those balls look way over the line, but only tech like GDS can ultimately prove it.

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:agree:

I posted this already on the other thread, but in the angle shown, the whole goal frame is tilted to the left. I've added the line parallel to the post. The ball being off the ground makes it much harder to judge.

https://i.ibb.co/QFkws5FF/Screenshot...t-17-18-55.png

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Originally Posted by 007

What gets me is how the narrative from the media for the Celtic one was that it couldn't be conclusively proven that it was over the line and that because of the angle it could appear to be over when it actually wasn't. Meaning the onfield decision should stand. Now with this one for Rangers there's no mention of it needing to be proven conclusively, the angle making it look more over than it is or that VAR shouldn't overrule the onfield decision.

I think what it does prove conclusively is that the media side with the big 2 Glasgow teams, even if it means there's a contradiction.

I think both the Celtic and Rangers ones were over so the officials got the 1st one right and Saturday's wrong. Whether or not Rocky was fouled is a different matter and tbh I don't see much of a push. Looks like 2 players jostling but I'll gladly take one in our favour. I expect it will be a long time before we get another against them, with many iffy ones going their way in the meantime.

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Totally agree. The delicious irony of Willie Collum making such a hoo-ha over the Celtic incident, throwing his VAR officials under the bus, and doubling down on the "conclusive evidence" narrative meant VAR couldn't get involved on Saturday.

The thing that annoys me the most in both of these incidents is the amount of attention given to them, just because it involves Celtic and Sevco. As if we'd have seen a similar response if the incidents occurred in, say, a Dundee v Ross County game. 2-tier officiating and 2-tier reporting.

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

A couple other images showing just how deceptive camera angles can be

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

:agree:

I posted this already on the other thread, but in the angle shown, the whole goal frame is tilted to the left. I've added the line parallel to the post. The ball being off the ground makes it much harder to judge.

https://i.ibb.co/QFkws5FF/Screenshot...t-17-18-55.png

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These were all reasons given though at the time as to why the decision to chop off the Celtic goal wasn't the right one at the time from a VAR protocol perspective and we were all happy to ignore it because it suited us. On this occasion is suits us we're entertaining it.

There is zero consistency on this topic from anyone, most importantly from VAR (who I suspect have perhaps came to this weekends conclusion out of some sort of petulant protest from the Alan Muir incidents) and it's probably time we took a look at goal line technology at a minimum.

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Originally Posted by Centre Hawf

These were all reasons given though at the time as to why the decision to chop off the Celtic goal wasn't the right one at the time from a VAR protocol perspective and we were all happy to ignore it because it suited us. On this occasion is suits us we're entertaining it.

There is zero consistency on this topic from anyone, most importantly from VAR (who I suspect have perhaps came to this weekends conclusion out of some sort of petulant protest from the Alan Muir incidents) and it's probably time we took a look at goal line technology at a minimum.

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Hate VAR and do not even understand now how and when it can be applied, nor do the officials. I do love the taste of Rangers tears and the crazy conspiracies against them..:confused::top marks. Hoped it would end in them keeping Barry but no such luck.

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Originally Posted by Centre Hawf

These were all reasons given though at the time as to why the decision to chop off the Celtic goal wasn't the right one at the time from a VAR protocol perspective and we were all happy to ignore it because it suited us. On this occasion is suits us we're entertaining it.

There is zero consistency on this topic from anyone, most importantly from VAR (who I suspect have perhaps came to this weekends conclusion out of some sort of petulant protest from the Alan Muir incidents) and it's probably time we took a look at goal line technology at a minimum.

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I’m being consistent - I thought the Celtic one was out and the Rangers one in, but the amount of people - media, commentators and even officials telling me the Celtic one was inconclusive has made me go along with it and agree the Rangers one is also inconclusive.

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Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs

I’m being consistent - I thought the Celtic one was out and the Rangers one in, but the amount of people - media, commentators and even officials telling me the Celtic one was inconclusive has made me go along with it and agree the Rangers one is also inconclusive.

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The issue I've had with a lot of the chat over it was that the above examples were being highlighted at the time, Sky even done that little piece at McDiarmid Park the next day showing a ball 'over the line' and most folk were unhappy with that as it proved some sort of media narrative or whatever conspiracy theory folk think they've figured out.

I do agree with you about the fact that the ruling of "we can't tell for sure" can apply to both very easily, thus the on field decision should probably stand. That being said if VAR DID want to overturn it I think it's got a much better case than it did back when Alan Muir overturned the Celtic goal personally.

I honestly think there's a good chance that VAR would have given the goal if it hadn't been for Willie Collum punting Alan Muir and going in hard on VAR for the Celtic goal process, but it's clearly been beaten into them that they can't get involved now with those situations. Maybe even with the ultimate aim of pissing us all of so much that we end up wanting a goal line type tech brought in to help them out.

Either way once again it will be a very interesting watch in a few weeks time when Willie Collum comes out and backs it or criticises it as he's already set his stall out (correctly) in that you can't tell for certain so on field should stand. If he goes back on that then I'll happily join in on the coward chat.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

:agree:

I posted this already on the other thread, but in the angle shown, the whole goal frame is tilted to the left. I've added the line parallel to the post. The ball being off the ground makes it much harder to judge.

https://i.ibb.co/QFkws5FF/Screenshot...t-17-18-55.png

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The parallel line should come down to the back of the goal line not the front I think.

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Originally Posted by ancient hibee

The parallel line should come down to the back of the goal line not the front I think.

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Mmm, yes, think you're right. It should stop where it hits the ground.

https://i.ibb.co/sv2bqJ1P/Screenshot...t-12-23-43.png

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Originally Posted by ancient hibee

The parallel line should come down to the back of the goal line not the front I think.

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I agree.
However, that photo doesn't show a ball that's wholly over the line.

VAR review for May taking a while to come out onto YouTube 🤔🤔

https://youtu.be/ojZSkWLwYzE?si=adItO2ELtffHoz0F
Here is the VAR review for May. Hibs Rangers at the end. You decide.

Sent from my SM-A127F using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by gbhibby

https://youtu.be/ojZSkWLwYzE?si=adItO2ELtffHoz0F
Here is the VAR review for May. Hibs Rangers at the end. You decide.

Sent from my SM-A127F using Tapatalk

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I’m mildly surprised that Collum sticks by the “categorical” position, thought he’d have fling some more people under the bus to appease the hordes

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Originally Posted by McD

I’m mildly surprised that Collum sticks by the “categorical” position, thought he’d have fling some more people under the bus to appease the hordes

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Yep, fair play, at least he’s stuck to his position from last time.

He’s right to double down: he had to sack a guy last time due to the noise created. How could he go against that?

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Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs

He’s right to double down: he had to sack a guy last time due to the noise created. How could he go against that?

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He said that if the ball had been on the ground a decision could possibly be made, is that not what the VAR did in the game against Celtic as he saw an angle that showed grass between the ball and the goal line.

He’s right on this occasion just as he was right for the Celtic/United decisions

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Originally Posted by Centre Hawf

He’s right on this occasion just as he was right for the Celtic/United decisions

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He wasn’t right on either

So officially it is a sensational goal line clearance from Rocky. What made the whole thing even better is 20 odd seconds later we scored.

The incident in the Aberdeen Rangers game similar to the one in the Celtic game the ball was given out by a linesman who was at the other side of the pitch and had the goalposts in between him and the ball,he could not have possibly been able to make a decision from where he was standing. Collum has created a culture that VAR officials are scared to make a decision.

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Originally Posted by gbhibby

So officially it is a sensational goal line clearance from Rocky. What nade tge whole thing even better is 20 odd seconds later we scored.

The incident in the Aberdeen Rangers game similar to the one in the Celtic game the ball was given out by a linesman who was at the other side of the pitch and had the goalposts in between him and the ball,he could not have possibly been able to make a decision from where he was standing.

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Yeah but the preference seems to be to let the guy guess rather than use the technology.

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Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs

Yeah but the preference seems to be to let the guy guess rather than use the technology.

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Because it’s the laws/protocol. It’s the same elsewhere with VAR. But I do think there’s a good chance Willie is using this as a push for clubs to fork out for goal line tech and more cameras.

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Originally Posted by gbhibby

https://youtu.be/ojZSkWLwYzE?si=adItO2ELtffHoz0F
Here is the VAR review for May. Hibs Rangers at the end. You decide.

Sent from my SM-A127F using Tapatalk

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But , but 😂….

https://youtu.be/8fqNnO900hA?si=cTMxErZb4I1C_CIm

Good that Gollum stuck to his guns wasn’t 100% conclusive for me

Unusually we did well out of VAR in the season just past

Admit it is not ideal and we need to get it 100% as too much at stake