Why is Edinburgh so filthy?

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Originally Posted by HibbyDave

I understand the biodiversity argument.
Litter, as you say is a different problem. Let’s start somewhere…… pick up a bit of litter everyday and put it into a bin.

Small steps.

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Yes, agree. I think will end up as one of these auld fellies who takes a litter picker and a binbag when i go for a walk :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Hibspur

I'm not expecting spotless clean. It wasn't so much the litter and grubby pavements which really struck me as much as the graffiti on numerous stair doors. They're quite literally covered in it. Somebody mentioned it's partly to do with gangs 'tagging' their territory. Whatever, it was new to me to see so much of that in the city centre.

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Aye right enough I never seen YPD YMD YNT YCD and all the other gangs painted all over the city back in the day, away and have a watch of train spotting and tell me the city centre was a lovely place, it hasn’t changed it’s still a dirty looking place as it has always been, the big difference is the volume of tourists who will be making most of the mess and there is only so much the council can do, was in Milan a few years back, now that’s a dump.

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Originally Posted by WestStandWillie

Edinburgh is looking so run down in a lot of places.

Princes Street is a disgrace, full of tat shops and money laundering businesses which seem to get ignored.

Graffiti just looks tacky. There's a guy in Portobello who is going around removing graffiti from bus stops and junction boxes but they'll likely just become a blank canvas.

People who throw litter on the street or fly tip are ****bags.

Mind set of modern society. They have a "do what they want" mentality. Challenge them and you end up appearing on social media for likes.

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I will give you Princes Street, depends what side of the street you walk along, if ever a street needed revamped it’s that street, bars cafes and restaurants should be all along most of it for the tourists and they have a great view as well.

Graffiti/vandalism call it whatever you want has always been about, telephone boxes were always spray painted and the likes.

You don’t think there was litter dog poo back in the day either, mind set of the modern society, deary me, nothing changes just the same crap over and over.

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Originally Posted by Hibspur

If you say so. It was the girl behind the bar at Doctor's who told us they're plagued by it and that it was 'gangs of neds'. Whatever, it would be a stretch to describe the mess sprayed across the doors around there as 'art'.

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Or just young people doing what young folk do.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

I have always liked the idea of "open spaces" for graffiti artists.... and that last word is used deliberately. Some graffiti art is stunning in its creativity and execution. (which opens up the whole debate about "what is art?")

There used to be one near Bristo Square, where people could exercise their craft, without fear of being lifted. From time to time, it would be wiped clean, so that people could start again.

I am not sure if it is there any more, or if there are others like it.

The argument against that, of course, is that a lot of tagging is done (and I know I'm showing my prejudices here ) by people who want to be the rebel, and have no interest in being "in the system".

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Balgreen tunnel was just graffitied by some charity and looking very good.

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Originally Posted by overdrive

There's an outstanding one in London next to Waterloo Station. Leake Street Tunnel.

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Some good stuff in Manchester as well.

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Originally Posted by silverhibee

Or just young people doing what young folk do.

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Nah, I think you're wrong there. I've seen the vandalism folk are talking about on that stretch near the uni and it's people's private homes. That's a new thing.

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Originally Posted by silverhibee

I will give you Princes Street, depends what side of the street you walk along, if ever a street needed revamped it’s that street, bars cafes and restaurants should be all along most of it for the tourists and they have a great view as well.

Graffiti/vandalism call it whatever you want has always been about, telephone boxes were always spray painted and the likes.

You don’t think there was litter dog poo back in the day either, mind set of the modern society, deary me, nothing changes just the same crap over and over.

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They should make a lot of Princes St residential. No shortage of wealthy takers for that view.

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

We have touched on the ‘weeds’ issue in a different thread but we are being encouraged to leave wild plants in urban environments untouched because we are living through a biodiversity crisis. Native plants (‘weeds’!) are good for pollinators so councils are under pressure to change their maintenance regimes. And having less money every year doesnt help. Of course if its next to your property and its looking unsightly from your point of view thats ok, weed it out but there needs to be areas in a city where we let grass grow long . Thats why the landscape say in the Bruntsfield Links where theyve not mowed patches of grassland and new species have reestablished themselves.

That’s different issue from retail/restaurant waste and litter IMO.

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I don't buy the biodiversity argument to not cutting the grass. It's a cop out to save money.

If biodiversity is desired, it can be done in a way that is pleasant to look at. The botanic gardens is pretty biodiverse but manages to do so without looking like a garden in an abandoned property.

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Originally Posted by Speedy

I don't buy the biodiversity argument to not cutting the grass. It's a cop out to save money.

If biodiversity is desired, it can be done in a way that is pleasant to look at. The botanic gardens is pretty biodiverse but manages to do so without looking like a garden in an abandoned property.

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The science that shows that leaving the grass grow long and reducing cutting height increasing species diversity is rock solid. No doubt that some councils use that as a excuse sometimes but it depends how its done. If ithe projects managed effectively and the community is kept informed its almost always massively popular by the 2nd year when the flowers start appearing.

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Originally Posted by Speedy

I don't buy the biodiversity argument to not cutting the grass. It's a cop out to save money.

If biodiversity is desired, it can be done in a way that is pleasant to look at. The botanic gardens is pretty biodiverse but manages to do so without looking like a garden in an abandoned property.

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Yes, I've seen the re-wilding/biodiverse initiatives done well in urban areas in the sense that they're an attractive feature which enhances the space, but I was with my family in the Princes St gardens yesterday (the Scott Monument section so I can't speak for the main gardens) and it just looks like a mix of untended, overgrown weeds coupled with tufts of uncut grass. The grass looks badly dried out and still knackered from the winter market stuff they must have had on top of it and for some reason the planting beds at street level have nothing in them. All a bit drab and sorry looking.

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

The science that shows that leaving the grass grow long and reducing cutting height increasing species diversity is rock solid. No doubt that some councils use that as a excuse sometimes but it depends how its done. If ithe projects managed effectively and the community is kept informed its almost always massively popular by the 2nd year when the flowers start appearing.

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I don't think by just letting grass grow it's going to improve the biodiversity of an urban area, something needs to be sown in those plots to encourage it in the first place.

Having diversity of species is one of the key elements, so it needs to be thought out and done properly and like you say if done well it can both look great and encourage wildife/insects.

Princess Street Gardens would be a great place to have these kinds of plots instead of the neatly planted flowers, put in species-rich grasses and wildflowers and do a little placard explaining the reasoning for doing so.

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Originally Posted by Jones28

I don't think by just letting grass grow it's going to improve the biodiversity of an urban area, something needs to be sown in those plots to encourage it in the first place.

Having diversity of species is one of the key elements, so it needs to be thought out and done properly and like you say if done well it can both look great and encourage wildife/insects.

Princess Street Gardens would be a great place to have these kinds of plots instead of the neatly planted flowersP, put in species-rich grasses and wildflowers and do a little placard explaining the reasoning for doing so.

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Mentioned it in my previous post that in the Scott Monument section of the gardens there are no longer any neatly planted flowers, while the re-wilding seems to consist of letting the grass and weeds simply grow as they please.

I had complimented the council earlier in this thread as I saw them cleaning out drains, now they have "fixed" the roads about me I'm taking it back, fixing them amounts to a thin layer of bitumen being rolled on the ground then layers of small stones being rolled into it, two weeks later and there are still stones everywhere, walked into people's houses, all over their tyres and cars, on the pavement

it's peeling up and cracking and the roads are actually in a worse state than the pre works condition, it resembles some random country lane rather than a road smack bang in the city, shambles

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Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4

I had complimented the council earlier in this thread as I saw them cleaning out drains, now they have "fixed" the roads about me I'm taking it back, fixing them amounts to a thin layer of bitumen being rolled on the ground then layers of small stones being rolled into it, two weeks later and there are still stones everywhere, walked into people's houses, all over Thier tyres and cars, on the pavement

it's peeling up and cracking and the roads are actually in a worse state than the pre works condition, it resembles some random country lane rather than a road smack bang in the city, shambles

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Have seen that elsewhere. Takes about 6 months to compact/disperse

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Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4

I had complimented the council earlier in this thread as I saw them cleaning out drains, now they have "fixed" the roads about me I'm taking it back, fixing them amounts to a thin layer of bitumen being rolled on the ground then layers of small stones being rolled into it, two weeks later and there are still stones everywhere, walked into people's houses, all over their tyres and cars, on the pavement

it's peeling up and cracking and the roads are actually in a worse state than the pre works condition, it resembles some random country lane rather than a road smack bang in the city, shambles

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Which streets are these, so I can try to avoid?

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Originally Posted by babahibs

Which streets are these, so I can try to avoid?

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Bottom of Balfour Street, no through way so you should be fine if you arent going there, but if this is their plan to fix all roads then soon to be seen everywhere

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Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4

I had complimented the council earlier in this thread as I saw them cleaning out drains, now they have "fixed" the roads about me I'm taking it back, fixing them amounts to a thin layer of bitumen being rolled on the ground then layers of small stones being rolled into it, two weeks later and there are still stones everywhere, walked into people's houses, all over their tyres and cars, on the pavement

it's peeling up and cracking and the roads are actually in a worse state than the pre works condition, it resembles some random country lane rather than a road smack bang in the city, shambles

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I have never been able to work out how decisions are made about road resurfacing/repairs in Edinburgh. Two recent examples spring to mind:

They resurfaced Newcraighall Road and Niddrie Mains Road a few months back. Badly needed done, the road has taken a hammering from HGVs delivering to Fort Kinnaird, heavy machinery travelling to all the new houses being built at Newcraighall, The Wisp, Shawfair etc and the increased traffic that comes with that. Not long after they also resurfaced a big chunk of Duddingston Park South from the mini roundabout at the Jewel down towards Milton Road West. Again badly needed done. But for some reason I can't figure there is a big section between said mini roundabout and the crossroads at the Wisp that they have just left, not only left but because they used it to park all the plant machinery on it's actually in an infinitely worse state than when they started. I just don't get why you would resurface 2 long drags of road and leave a near half mile section between the 2 parts untouched.

Second one is my parents street got totally resurfaced a couple of years back. Road and pavements. It's a long street, just under a mile end to end, so the cost wouldn't have been insignificant and it did need done. However it's a road to nowhere really, a residential street that people only drive on if they live there or are visiting. The main road through the area is a busy road and a main thoroughfare to the Bypass and years later it's still untouched and it's like driving on the surface of the moon. I just don't get why a quiet residential street would be prioritised over a busy main route (not that my parents were complaining but even they were a bit baffled by the decision making).

And don't even get me started on the out and out corruption when it came to replacing the setts on Brighton Place in Portobello:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I have never been able to work out how decisions are made about road resurfacing/repairs in Edinburgh. Two recent examples spring to mind:

They resurfaced Newcraighall Road and Niddrie Mains Road a few months back. Badly needed done, the road has taken a hammering from HGVs delivering to Fort Kinnaird, heavy machinery travelling to all the new houses being built at Newcraighall, The Wisp, Shawfair etc and the increased traffic that comes with that. Not long after they also resurfaced a big chunk of Duddingston Park South from the mini roundabout at the Jewel down towards Milton Road West. Again badly needed done. But for some reason I can't figure there is a big section between said mini roundabout and the crossroads at the Wisp that they have just left, not only left but because they used it to park all the plant machinery on it's actually in an infinitely worse state than when they started. I just don't get why you would resurface 2 long drags of road and leave a near half mile section between the 2 parts untouched.

Second one is my parents street got totally resurfaced a couple of years back. Road and pavements. It's a long street, just under a mile end to end, so the cost wouldn't have been insignificant and it did need done. However it's a road to nowhere really, a residential street that people only drive on if they live there or are visiting. The main road through the area is a busy road and a main thoroughfare to the Bypass and years later it's still untouched and it's like driving on the surface of the moon. I just don't get why a quiet residential street would be prioritised over a busy main route (not that my parents were complaining but even they were a bit baffled by the decision making).

And don't even get me started on the out and out corruption when it came to replacing the setts on Brighton Place in Portobello:rolleyes:

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Same with pavements. CEC has been pretty keen on going the whole hog replacing them when there's no apparent need.

Outside my old house in Halmyre Street (and various nearby streets) was totally redone much to the surprise of those that lived there.

More recently Lochend Road pavements have been totally rebuilt. It wasn't perfect but it wouldn't take long to find other pavements or roads where the money would have been better spent.

As for muck ups there's no better example than the sort of pedestrianised section of Elm Row. Redone for the trams it's already been dug up numerous times and there's two big sections being done just now, again. And that doesn't take into account at least 75% of the slabs at the edge of the pavement are broken or moving.

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Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4

Bottom of Balfour Street, no through way so you should be fine if you arent going there, but if this is their plan to fix all roads then soon to be seen everywhere

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Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Jack

Same with pavements. CEC has been pretty keen on going the whole hog replacing them when there's no apparent need.

Outside my old house in Halmyre Street (and various nearby streets) was totally redone much to the surprise of those that lived there.

More recently Lochend Road pavements have been totally rebuilt. It wasn't perfect but it wouldn't take long to find other pavements or roads where the money would have been better spent.

As for muck ups there's no better example than the sort of pedestrianised section of Elm Row. Redone for the trams it's already been dug up numerous times and there's two big sections being done just now, again. And that doesn't take into account at least 75% of the slabs at the edge of the pavement are broken or moving.

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At the top of my street there was a textured slab (textured for blind pedestrians i believe) badly laid not flush so it created a permanent brutal trip hazard right next to a busy road. I reported it on the council website and when i went up there a few days later it had already been fixed. So there are some good examples of council responsiveness as well.