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A fair point, however Brown, Thomson, Whittaker, Fletcher etc all played in the first team without a loan. I remember Fletcher playing out on the left last 20 minutes in games as a stick of a boy at 17. That’s the kind of introduction I’d have expected for Laidlaw by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
One of the reasons these guys played, was because we were skint at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
It worked out well, but they were the exception to the rule.
An interesting point. Would the golden generation have came through at Hibs as early as they did, or got a chance, if they came through now? They would of course still have reached the heights they did because of their talent. However would we be brave enough to integrate them or would they still be playing U19 football longer that they actually did?Quote:
Originally Posted by HIBS NUTS
We see the youth team against kids. The coaching team see them train and play against adults for hours every week. They know better than us if they can hack it. If they were ready they would be involved it's mad to say they wouldn't.
Connor Young was standing out more than Ethan for many before he left. He struggled in the lowland league after leaving. He has been with East Fife in league 2 since January and only got 5 minutes most games, he's scored 1 in 8 games in a 8 nil win. There was a thread on here saying it was a joke Young wasn't getting a chance. It's fair to say they were wrong and the jump up to men's football is massive
Hopefully Laidlaw makes it but the chances are most of our youths wont
Josh Doig went on loan and proved he could compete before coming back and being the only left back in god knows how long to keep Lewis out of the team. If Laidlaw thought that pathway was beneath him then there’s not a lot we can do.
Yeah, if I remember correctly there were a few promising youngsters but never actually heard much about Thomson. I think we were up at Dens park midweek and we were rooked by injuries and suspensions and Thomson was promoted to the first team squad on a kinda show us what you have and prove to us you are worth a contractQuote:
Originally Posted by HIBS NUTS
By all accounts he held is own as well as scoring against celtc soon after in a league cup game at Easter rd
I'm going to hazard a wild guess that talent will prevail and that if any young player was a stand out in training then they would be getting into the side now. Why wouldn't LJ play them, I can't think why he wouldn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by superfurryhibby
Hibs managers aren't holding back young players to spite the first team.
In the SPL this season only 9 players under 18 kicked a ball at any point.
Only 23 players under 19, and 2 of them were ours (MacIntyre and O'Connor).
Last season it was less 17 and 18 year olds involved.
Riordan was 2 years older than Ethan when he went on loan to Cowdenbeath.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Yes, the season those in bold (+ Riordan) became regulars we finished 8th and everyone wanted the manager sacked.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
Proves my point more, that yes he was about 18 months older hadn't played much and was happy to go on loan to prove it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
Don’t blame him at all. With his ability a player of 18 would have went to Hibs and got his chance a decade ago. He’d perhaps gave stayed till his early twenties and gone ok for a big fee. Now we stick with old established pros. They’ve as much chance getting a first team game at Man City as Hibs these days. An ambitious and talented young player can’t be blamed for the risk aversive nature of Hibs and Scottish football.
Because managers have to look after their short term interests. Unless it’s in a managers remit they are going to pick guys like Henderson, McKirdy etc (as examples) who have little to no mid-long term future at Hibs over a youngster who possibly does have a mid-long term future but is less ready at the moment. Why persist with a youngster to your potential detriment when it’s the next manager who sees the fruits of your labour and not you.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfurryhibby
Not every youngster has to be a starter or be sold for millions. Rather than sign squad fillers like Devlin, Bojang, Tavares, Delfierre, Hague, McKirdy, Tait, Melkerson etc use our own youth team to fill the squad and put the money saved on quality over quantity.
Between 2009 & 2019 (in analysis I’ve put up before, but can’t find anymore) we lagged behind Rangers, Celtc, Hearts, Aberdeen & Dundee Utd in debuts given to youth players. We were massively further behind in minutes played for youth players. I’ve seen nothing since 2019 to suggest that has changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by easty
We spend a lot of money on a youth academy but at the same time seem reluctant to use it as a key part of a Hibs squad. Until that changes (over to you Brian McDermott) I don’t know what the purpose of investing so heavily in a youth academy is.
He made his debut away at Dundee, that's right. He was a stand out that day but he hadn't been all that in the reserves at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridge hibs
He scored in the quarter final of the 03/04 league Cup when we beat celtic 2-1. Brebner scored a penalty and Thompson got the winner. The headline was "King Kev is a Bobby dazzler". Johnny Bailey was the standout beside Caldwell that night.
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I fully suspect he’ll never play football at as high a level as Hibs going forward.
We rarely get this stuff all that wrong.
As for the binning the youth teams, id agree. Our return from them has been abysmal.
and those young players who weren’t getting a game during that time went on to do what exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
We gave a lot of gametime during that period to Stanton, Handling, Harris, Forster, Caldwell, Cummings, Booth, Shaw and Wotherspoon. With the exception of Wotherspoon who wanted to move on and Cummings who we sold, these players are all playing at a level well below where we currently aspire to be. If these were the best of the best, which other players during that time should have been getting gametime but didn’t?
Back during the real dark days at the tail end of season 2013/14, every week the guys who regularly attended U20’s games were saying we should be playing Andy Black and Ryan Baptie at full back. How they were ready for first team football and couldn’t be any worse than the experienced players we were playing. Andy Black plays for Cowdenbeath and Ryan Baptie plays for Penicuik. Turns out that folk aren’t actually that good at judging who is ready to play first team football. Except a solitary Premiership appearance for Black, neither has played above League 1 level.
https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?...d-Andrew-Black
It feels like promising youth players are overly nurtured and held back these days . Could well be looking back with misty nostalgia( no stats to prove my point)but it feels like they are held back from making the jump up.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
What’s people’s opinion on young O’Connor ? I thought he might have broken through by now. Only seen him infrequently, looks talented but a lot slighter than his old boy. . Hope he toughens up next season.
That's a good thread ha. Get them started, can't be worse than we have...Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
Probably similar threads for kane O'connor, Connor Young and Kurtis Byrne
100% I'd have had him in the team over the last few months ahead of McKirdy.
It’s a fair argument. I don’t think we’ve let anyone go we have particularly regretted in that time. Which begs the question as to whether we get enough benefit for what our youth academy costs, but that’s another argument for another thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
How much wastage has there been in that period in terms of squad fillers and short term signings? Take this season for example, how much stronger could the first team have been if we didn’t spend money on Bojang, Tavares, McKirdy & Devlin and promoted Laidkaw, O’Connor etc instead. Even if we similarly had little to no intention of using them, that money saved might have signed a midfielder that addressed more of our many issues there.
Transfer fees received for Cummings, Porteous, Doig, Young and now Laidlaw will have paid academy costs. We also made money from the Under 19's playing in Europe this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
Of the players you mention the signings of McKirdy and Tavares are looking like expensive mistakes.
Bojang and Devlin were brought in to look at them which makes sense.
If youngsters are going to be given a chance, it can't be 45 minutes at Falkirk and fans still moaning about it 9 months later. They'll need to play and be allowed to make mistakes. I remember Hibs.net before we played BSC ****ing Glasgow. ''strongest team'' was the consensus. Laughable. Its a part time side. Same when Hecky rotated in the league cup. We won our group easily and folk were absolutely flapping.
Hibs right now are not a good place for young players IMO. Our fanbase has zero patience. The likes of Motherwell and St Mirren give these guys a proper chance when first choice is injured or off form, whereas we'd have Hibs.net in meltdown demanding answers as to why we don't have 4 ready made players for each position. Marshall has been chucking them in for weeks and we haven't given Johnston a game. Its embarrassing.
I don't blame him for leaving. He or someone else from the dev side should've had the minutes Tavares, McKirdy and Bojang were getting.
Don't want to stay . 👋
Good postQuote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
He has been offered a new deal according to the club this morning
They have to, to be eligible for compensation. Even if it’s just £1 more than their previous deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by wookie70
Of course we have, the club wants him to stay but he wants more £££££Quote:
Originally Posted by wookie70
Could be staying.. interesting
Cummings didn't come through our academy setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by PHeffernan