Climate change and the impending apocalypse

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Originally Posted by McSwanky

Sorry, but I totally disagree!

Extreme examples to illustrate:

If everyone in the world changed their car every year, then we'd be scrapping 1 year old cars, and producing another 100% new cars every year.

If everyone in the world held onto their car for 10 years, then we'd be scrapping 10 year old cars, and producing another 10% of new cars every year.

So if the people at the new end of the market get rid of their cars every 3 years on average as opposed to say 10, that has to either result in:

1. an accumulation of more cars in the world, or
2. an earlier scrapping of cars that could have a longer life.

Am I wrong?

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Remember that there will always need to be more cars on the road as the population increases and more people want a car. If public transport was free (something which is a no brainer in my book) then you could make an argument for less cars (I would personally get rid of mine if public transport was free or very very heavily subsidised so to save me a load of cash). As it stands, a bus pass would cost me 60 quid a month, it costs me around £80 a month to run my car all in (that's fuel, insurance, road tax and including money I put away for servicing, MOT etc). Is it worth it to spend a fiver less a week and have to put up with journeys that take 2 or 3 times as long and sit on buses with the great unwashed? I took the bus to and from work for 20 years and it was utter misery, like, proper "I can't do this anymore" kind of stuff which forced me to learn to drive and get a car. A lot of folk wouldn't voluntarily go back to that even if it was free. As for electric cars, they are completely out of reach for working people and the bastion of the middle and upper classes who can say "Well you can't criticise me, I'm doing my bit".

I'm a year away from getting an honours degree in Environmental Science so I know a lot of what I'm saying goes against my own deeply held principles and is likely overly cynical, but sometimes you have to look at the overall picture and be realistic to the evidence around you pointing to one thing. Until public transport is better, free and less stressful then I don't think the number of cars on the road will reduce.

Example: Go onto google, plot a journey from Musselburgh Racecourse to Ocean Terminal by public transport, see how long that would take, how many buses would you need to rely on turning up and being on time? Then plot the same journey in a car. There will be routes like this from Stranraer to John O'Groats and everywhere in between, they are like public transport black holes, vast swathes of cities and countryside which you can't traverse with ease unless you have a car, and with more and more people having to move outside of cities to afford a roof over their heads it'll mean these people will need a car to get around easily.

Ultimately, I can only see the number of cars on the road going in one direction, and it certainly ain't down.

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Originally Posted by The_Exile

Remember that there will always need to be more cars on the road as the population increases and more people want a car. If public transport was free (something which is a no brainer in my book) then you could make an argument for less cars (I would personally get rid of mine if public transport was free or very very heavily subsidised so to save me a load of cash). As it stands, a bus pass would cost me 60 quid a month, it costs me around £80 a month to run my car all in (that's fuel, insurance, road tax and including money I put away for servicing, MOT etc). Is it worth it to spend a fiver less a week and have to put up with journeys that take 2 or 3 times as long and sit on buses with the great unwashed? I took the bus to and from work for 20 years and it was utter misery, like, proper "I can't do this anymore" kind of stuff which forced me to learn to drive and get a car. A lot of folk wouldn't voluntarily go back to that even if it was free. As for electric cars, they are completely out of reach for working people and the bastion of the middle and upper classes who can say "Well you can't criticise me, I'm doing my bit".

I'm a year away from getting an honours degree in Environmental Science so I know a lot of what I'm saying goes against my own deeply held principles and is likely overly cynical, but sometimes you have to look at the overall picture and be realistic to the evidence around you pointing to one thing. Until public transport is better, free and less stressful then I don't think the number of cars on the road will reduce.

Example: Go onto google, plot a journey from Musselburgh Racecourse to Ocean Terminal by public transport, see how long that would take, how many buses would you need to rely on turning up and being on time? Then plot the same journey in a car. There will be routes like this from Stranraer to John O'Groats and everywhere in between, they are like public transport black holes, vast swathes of cities and countryside which you can't traverse with ease unless you have a car, and with more and more people having to move outside of cities to afford a roof over their heads it'll mean these people will need a car to get around easily.

Ultimately, I can only see the number of cars on the road going in one direction, and it certainly ain't down.

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All true, but still better if people don't replace their cars every time the wind changes [emoji16]

Around 130 bus operators in England are capping their single fares at £2 for Jan/Feb,Mar. The funding of £60m to carry this out is coming from the Government's Help for Households Initiative. They feel this will take 2m car journeys off the roads at this time.

I think their needs to be some hard thinking about public transport generally in these times. It seems clear that travellers have not returned to using it as before the pandemic, for some obvious and some less apparent reasons. I was shocked recently to head to the city on a formerly busy service. one which may have required standing all the way. There were about four people on these double-decker buses.

I can envisage more and more services being cut due to lack of use, as well as scarcity of drivers etc.

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Originally Posted by stu in nottingham

Around 130 bus operators in England are capping their single fares at £2 for Jan/Feb,Mar. The funding of £60m to carry this out is coming from the Government's Help for Households Initiative. They feel this will take 2m car journeys off the roads at this time.

I think their needs to be some hard thinking about public transport generally in these times. It seems clear that travellers have not returned to using it as before the pandemic, for some obvious and some less apparent reasons. I was shocked recently to head to the city on a formerly busy service. one which may have required standing all the way. There were about four people on these double-decker buses.

I can envisage more and more services being cut due to lack of use, as well as scarcity of drivers etc.

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Work from home will be a big part of this.


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Originally Posted by McSwanky

All true, but still better if people don't replace their cars every time the wind changes [emoji16]

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Not sure the frequency people change their cars will make any kind of difference to the amount of cars on the road though is the overall point I guess. All it would do would create a shortage of cheaper used cars for new drivers, which would ultimately lead to more new cars being produced anyway. I think fundamental change in multiple aspects (cost is the obvious one) of the way we get around is the only way to begin to answer the car problem.

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Originally Posted by stu in nottingham

Around 130 bus operators in England are capping their single fares at £2 for Jan/Feb,Mar. The funding of £60m to carry this out is coming from the Government's Help for Households Initiative. They feel this will take 2m car journeys off the roads at this time.

I think their needs to be some hard thinking about public transport generally in these times. It seems clear that travellers have not returned to using it as before the pandemic, for some obvious and some less apparent reasons. I was shocked recently to head to the city on a formerly busy service. one which may have required standing all the way. There were about four people on these double-decker buses.

I can envisage more and more services being cut due to lack of use, as well as scarcity of drivers etc.

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We're lucky that our single fair is already only £1.80. The vast majority have ridacards I read, which makes it cheaper still.

Busses in rush hour are packed here. I'd assume though working from home has obviously impacted fares, particularly places like Edinburgh park

Clive Sinclair had the right idea at the wrong time. Small, fairly slow 20mph electric transport for 1 person which can keep the worst of teh weather off would be my solution. Combine that with e-bikes with a faster limit, electric scooters and you would get many out of cars. The problem is they seem to think they can drive people to use public transport and even when free many never do.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Work from home will be a big part of this.


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Yes, that was one of the 'obvious' reasons mentioned.

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Originally Posted by wookie70

Clive Sinclair had the right idea at the wrong time. Small, fairly slow 20mph electric transport for 1 person which can keep the worst of teh weather off would be my solution. Combine that with e-bikes with a faster limit, electric scooters and you would get many out of cars. The problem is they seem to think they can drive people to use public transport and even when free many never do.

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Not quite the same but local authorities here have beeh using a long-term experiement with rental electric scooters. The next step planned is to have rental e-bikes.

https://www.transportnottingham.com/...7-1-scaled.jpg

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Originally Posted by stu in nottingham

Yes, that was one of the 'obvious' reasons mentioned.



Not quite the same but local authorities here have beeh using a long-term experiement with rental electric scooters. The next step planned is to have rental e-bikes.

https://www.transportnottingham.com/...7-1-scaled.jpg

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Maybe it's different up here, but I thought e-scooters weren't legal?

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Originally Posted by wookie70

Clive Sinclair had the right idea at the wrong time. Small, fairly slow 20mph electric transport for 1 person which can keep the worst of teh weather off would be my solution. Combine that with e-bikes with a faster limit, electric scooters and you would get many out of cars. The problem is they seem to think they can drive people to use public transport and even when free many never do.

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It's a reasonable point. I travel the City Bypass at rush hour at least one day a week and most of the cars there (myself included - I acknowledge I'm part of the problem) only have one person in them. We are a two car family mainly because we both have no real public transport alternative to the car. If a cheap, single occupancy, low range, electric vehicle was available, I'd definitely consider it. No danger I'm going to be paying the money the car manufacturers want for an electric or hybrid car though. Something has to change there.

Rental e-bikes are already available in Musselburgh! https://goebike.uk/

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Originally Posted by danhibees1875

Maybe it's different up here, but I thought e-scooters weren't legal?

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Otherwise, outside of this local authority run scheme, private e-scooters are not legal here either.

There have been a lot of complaints about them from some quarters.

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Originally Posted by stu in nottingham

Otherwise, outside of this local authority run scheme, private e-scooters are not legal here either.

There have been a lot of complaints about them from some quarters.

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:aok:

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Originally Posted by McSwanky

It's a reasonable point. I travel the City Bypass at rush hour at least one day a week and most of the cars there (myself included - I acknowledge I'm part of the problem) only have one person in them. We are a two car family mainly because we both have no real public transport alternative to the car. If a cheap, single occupancy, low range, electric vehicle was available, I'd definitely consider it. No danger I'm going to be paying the money the car manufacturers want for an electric or hybrid car though. Something has to change there.

Rental e-bikes are already available in Musselburgh! https://goebike.uk/

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If you're serious about single occupancy EV's, you should catch Top Gear (series 33 episode 2) on iPlayer. I realise there's a lot of mucking about between the presenters and not real life challenges, but they demonstrate 3 cars which could be viable options for many folk that have sub 15 mile commutes and generally travel on their own.

Micro cars used;
https://www.citytransformer.com/
https://www.citroen.co.uk/ami
https://www.carverelectric.co.uk/

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

If you're serious about single occupancy EV's, you should catch Top Gear (series 33 episode 2) on iPlayer. I realise there's a lot of mucking about between the presenters and not real life challenges, but they demonstrate 3 cars which could be viable options for many folk that have sub 15 mile commutes and generally travel on their own.

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I def think there should be much higher taxes on large vehicles. Would solve more than a few problems.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I def think there should be much higher taxes on large vehicles. Would solve more than a few problems.


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I agree that personal acts that impact climate/environment should be properly costed. From short haul flights when high speed rail is available, right down to personal motoring (which is arguably subsidised).

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Originally Posted by danhibees1875

Maybe it's different up here, but I thought e-scooters weren't legal?

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Things are a ****ing plague over here. There's thousands of the things just lying about all over the place and people just leave then lying on the floor like a dug would do with its own ****. They're on the pavements, roads and even the rivers and canals. They're also just bloody dangerous and although they should be driven on the road, most of the people using them do so on the pavement. I've also seen a few tourists getting airborne after hitting small potholes or bumps, the small wheel radius makes them sensitive to uneven surfaces and they suffer from wheel wobble after hitting them.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Things are a ****ing plague over here. There's thousands of the things just lying about all over the place and people just leave then lying on the floor like a dug would do with its own ****. They're on the pavements, roads and even the rivers and canals. They're also just bloody dangerous and although they should be driven on the road, most of the people using them do so on the pavement. I've also seen a few tourists getting airborne after hitting small potholes or bumps, the small wheel radius makes them sensitive to uneven surfaces and they suffer from wheel wobble after hitting them.

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Similar story here I'm afraid, they tend to be misused in much the same ways.

I've a friend who is blind and who tripped over one of scooters which had been left lying on the ground in a non-designated place. He sued the company successfully.

Apart from that, a problem seems to be that there really isn't a suitable place for them to be driven. They're supposed to be on the roads but don't look particularly safe in heavy traffic. On the pavement - which many are - they can be a menace as they are very quiet and often not observed coming in your direction.

These huge electric bikes used by food delivery drivers are all over the pavements in Glasgow city centre.

Never worry about traffic lights or pedestrian areas like Buchanan St and when they're not being used, there's a bunch of them parked up blocking the pavement.

They should be licensed and treated like motor bikes. Way ore dangerous than a 50cc.

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Originally Posted by stu in nottingham

Otherwise, outside of this local authority run scheme, private e-scooters are not legal here either.

There have been a lot of complaints about them from some quarters.

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They have them in Sunderland too. Quite reasonable and a great way to bomb along the esplanade

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

If you're serious about single occupancy EV's, you should catch Top Gear (series 33 episode 2) on iPlayer. I realise there's a lot of mucking about between the presenters and not real life challenges, but they demonstrate 3 cars which could be viable options for many folk that have sub 15 mile commutes and generally travel on their own.

Micro cars used;
https://www.citytransformer.com/
https://www.citroen.co.uk/ami
https://www.carverelectric.co.uk/

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I remember that episode and something similar to the trike would be perfect imo for many commuters, but not even close to being affordable. I'm talking about far simpler solutions and for the most part they could probably be along the lines of e-scooters.

A move to smaller commuting vehicles will never happen without the authorities building infrastructure, allowing free parking etc and also hammering cars while making sure public transport accessible to everyone. None of the climate change issues will be solved by individual choice. It needs Governments to basically stop people making the wrong choices by not allowing them in the first place.

An interesting development.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/01/new-york-governor-legalizes-human-composting-after-death?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/01/new-york-governor-legalizes-human-composting-after-death?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

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Is it different to this?

https://www.binningwood.co.uk/about/...-green-burial/

Heatwave in Europe is crazy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/US_Stormw...29457292066818

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Heatwave in Europe is crazy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/US_Stormw...29457292066818

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Shorts and t-shirt in the garden yesterday, I've never experienced anything like this in January. Having to mow the lawn because the grass hasn't stopped growing, mental.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlssYsNW...g&name=900x900

https://theorkneynews.scot/2023/01/0...ful-important/

A very interesting read. Tiny pockets of greenery in NYC captured carbon more than emissions.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcas...=1000594106196

Great podcast on what the Danes are doing with offshore wind. Scotland seems to be a bit behind on this.


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Mind when rock pools used to be full of life? Fish, anemones, crabs, wee prawns and that? Where can I go to see that?

I remember it disappearing in the Forth mid 80s. It should have been a warning.

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Originally Posted by Glory Lurker

Mind when rock pools used to be full of life? Fish, anemones, crabs, wee prawns and that? Where can I go to see that?

I remember it disappearing in the Forth mid 80s. It should have been a warning.

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You’ll like this project then, which I’m involved with in a minor way. Links in nicely to the recent Freeports announcement and is good news for Granton in a wider sense. You too will be in rock pooling before you
know it :greengrin

https://www.theecologycentre.org/seagrass

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

You’ll like this project then, which I’m involved with in a minor way. Links in nicely to the recent Freeports announcement and is good news for Granton in a wider sense. You too will be in rock pooling before you
know it :greengrin

https://www.theecologycentre.org/seagrass

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There's a pretty cool project taking place around Scotland where researchers are deploying oysters into coastal waters as a form of absorbing carbon too. I know that's linked to a seagrass project at the same time, so sorry if it's yours and I'm teaching granny to suck eggs! :greengrin