Atlantic League

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

They are more likely to watch once they get familiar with both teams after regularly playing each other. And if both these teams offer a higher quality match than Hamilton v St. Johnstone’s and the outcome affect Hibs similarly then I think more people will watch.


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1) The market in the proposal is 32 million
2) The quality of player / teams / competitiveness will determine viewing figures. Clubs involved will get the pick of the 32m market apart from players that might sign for top EPL/ Euro Super league if that happens( likely)
3) Future of leagues/ cups in Scotland initially secure but I suspect B teams of those involved in Atlantic league will be in the Scottish set up. Would help with attendances at smaller clubs.
4) Promotion/ Relegation from/ to domestic leagues. Probably might start that way but if the league is successful think there will be a demand for a second division that would probably accommodate say the top 10 clubs in Scotland in total across both divisions.
5) once up and running and successful I’d think a knock out cup competition would be added.

if successful revenues likely to rise. Will top clubs in this or Domestic leagues be allowed access to Euro Super League if that happens. That may be the determinant if something like this is to happen. If no access to Top Euro Leagues then can see Atlantic League definitely happening, plus Baltic, Eastern Europe leagues etc

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

They are more likely to watch once they get familiar with both teams after regularly playing each other. And if both these teams offer a higher quality match than Hamilton v St. Johnstone’s and the outcome affect Hibs similarly then I think more people will watch.


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Are they? Based on what?

3.3m people watched Man Utd get humped 6-1 off Spurs a few weeks back on Sky. That's an infinitley more attractive game than anything in the Atlantic League would be. It's in the most watched league in the world. 3.3 million.

Anyone claiming there's a potential market of 25m for Hibs v Odd is living in dreamland. The viewing figures would be more or less the same as we get for Hibs games just now, it's not a lucrative market, it's not something a broadcaster is going to throw ridiculous amounts of money at.

We should be looking to improve the Scottish game as a starting point. The Atlantic League is not going to happen.

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Originally Posted by easty

Are they? Based on what?

3.3m people watched Man Utd get humped 6-1 off Spurs a few weeks back on Sky. That's an infinitley more attractive game than anything in the Atlantic League would be. It's in the most watched league in the world. 3.3 million.

Anyone claiming there's a potential market of 25m for Hibs v Odd is living in dreamland. The viewing figures would be more or less the same as we get for Hibs games just now, it's not a lucrative market, it's not something a broadcaster is going to throw ridiculous amounts of money at.

We should be looking to improve the Scottish game as a starting point. The Atlantic League is not going to happen.

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This is the kind of basic level reality check that tells me it isn’t going to happen ( the idea of a north sea league, with a token Irish team is ludicrous really).

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Originally Posted by easty

Are they? Based on what?

3.3m people watched Man Utd get humped 6-1 off Spurs a few weeks back on Sky. That's an infinitley more attractive game than anything in the Atlantic League would be. It's in the most watched league in the world. 3.3 million.

Anyone claiming there's a potential market of 25m for Hibs v Odd is living in dreamland. The viewing figures would be more or less the same as we get for Hibs games just now, it's not a lucrative market, it's not something a broadcaster is going to throw ridiculous amounts of money at.

We should be looking to improve the Scottish game as a starting point. The Atlantic League is not going to happen.

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I’m not saying 25m people will watch a game. I’m saying that’s the size of the TV market.[emoji23]


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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

This is the kind of basic level reality check that tells me it isn’t going to happen ( the idea of a north sea league, with a token Irish team is ludicrous really).

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Unless your saying that the whole times article is fabricated then very serious people at a lot of clubs are seriously considering it along with large investment banks.
You can write it if if you like but I think the potential sums of money involved will be enough to tempt the owners to go for it.


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It's dreamland stuff. Would never work for multiple reasons.

Never gonna happen, Hibs will be playing Hamilton and the likes well after i've gone to push the daisies up.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Unless your saying that the whole times article is fabricated then very serious people at a lot of clubs are seriously considering it along with large investment banks.
You can write it if if you like but I think the potential sums of money involved will be enough to tempt the owners to go for it.


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Nobody is saying it's fabricated.

Neither is this one, from over 20 years ago - https://www.theguardian.com/football...ewsstory.sport

It's just not going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Unless your saying that the whole times article is fabricated then very serious people at a lot of clubs are seriously considering it along with large investment banks.
You can write it if if you like but I think the potential sums of money involved will be enough to tempt the owners to go for it.


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I’m saying that Doyle ( the owner of Shelbourne Rovers) has a lot to gain, but every other team less so. As the article said, the idea had been mooted for 20 years. I take the 900 million money mentioned and JP Morgan backing with a large pinch of salt.

I do think there will be changes in how European football is structured and that teams like Hibs will potentially have a part to play, but it won’t be in a league consisting of teams from Norway, Sweden, Denmark and League of Ireland.

So in this fantasy land idea are the Scandinavian teams changing to winter football or are we moving to match them? Don't fancy Trondheim away on a Wednesday night in the middle of January much.

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Originally Posted by A Hi-Bee

I think this would be great for our game, stir up some of the little tin-pot dictators we have in the Scottish game. Should change the name to the Viking League, stuff celic let them do what they want? This is the way ahead all for such ideas.

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I really like that name :greengrin....it would give the league an identity that the fans could buy into. Selfishly just looking at Hibs (though you could throw in Hearts and Aberdeen as well), we suffer badly from being in the Scottish league. Big club but not big enough to challenge the OF and over 50% of our games against small town teams. Result is our crowds are always going to be below our potential and revenues mean we are unfortunately competing with English league 1 and 2 teams in the player market.

If marketed right it has potential....Malmo, Gothemborg, Brondy, Copenhagan, Molde, Rosenborg, etc......fantastic games and yes, much more interest than being in a league servicing a population of just 5m.

Issue comes from the teams left behind though, Dundee Utd, St Mirren, Killie, etc....they depend on playing the OF, us, etc....take that away and where are the crowds? The financial gap will lead to clubs spending big to get in the new league....it could be the death of a few for various reasons.....also, what if its us that fails to make the cut? The value of the Scottish league would plummet, it would not be unlikely if half the premier league teams would be forced into part time football.

Regarding Celtic pulling out.....I'm just guessing they've done their sums. Cut in the share of prize money, threat to annual CL participation, greater competition for the title, less clout....for all the benefits there will be more negatives for them than any other top 5 club.

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Originally Posted by Raymond Weil

I really like that name :greengrin....it would give the league an identity that the fans could buy into. Selfishly just looking at Hibs (though you could throw in Hearts and Aberdeen as well), we suffer badly from being in the Scottish league. Big club but not big enough to challenge the OF and over 50% of our games against small town teams. Result is our crowds are always going to be below our potential and revenues mean we are unfortunately competing with English league 1 and 2 teams in the player market.

If marketed right it has potential....Malmo, Gothemborg, Brondy, Copenhagan, Molde, Rosenborg, etc......fantastic games and yes, much more interest than being in a league servicing a population of just 5m.

Issue comes from the teams left behind though, Dundee Utd, St Mirren, Killie, etc....they depend on playing the OF, us, etc....take that away and where are the crowds? The financial gap will lead to clubs spending big to get in the new league....it could be the death of a few for various reasons.....also, what if its us that fails to make the cut? The value of the Scottish league would plummet, it would not be unlikely if half the premier league teams would be forced into part time football.

Regarding Celtic pulling out.....I'm just guessing they've done their sums. Cut in the share of prize money, threat to annual CL participation, greater competition for the title, less clout....for all the benefits there will be more negatives for them than any other top 5 club.

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your third paragraph sums up most of my concerns. We would be shafting Scottish football. That won’t matter to some people but it matters to me. And you’re right, assuming the Scottish top flight becomes a feeder league for the new set up, if we get relegated we’re screwed ourselves. David Conn wrote a great book a while back (‘The Beautiful Game?’) where he describes the setting up of the Premier League in England in 1992. Obviously the Big Five at the time were the driving force behind it for obvious reasons but Conn comments that the smaller clubs who were equally desperate to break away and grab the cash (likes of Wimbledon and Norwich City) never once seemed to consider the prospect that they might be relegated and the financial devastation that that may cause.

I don’t know. Our Scottish cup winners got a crowd of 13k when they played brondby in the Europa league. We got 16k against Molde two years later with one of our most exciting teams in recent years. Why do people think Easter Road will be bursting at the seams for these teams in a different league? If the whole argument is based on the belief that Hibs will be awash with cash and therefore have top quality on the pitch then that’s a massive gamble to take. What if the expected finances don’t materialise. Or if the league goes belly up after a year or two.

we would risk alienating and losing Hibs fans. And that’s no problem for the man uniteds of this world where any fan will just be replaced. Every Hibs fan lost is a loss for the club.

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Originally Posted by Pagan Hibernia

your third paragraph sums up most of my concerns. We would be shafting Scottish football. That won’t matter to some people but it matters to me. And you’re right, assuming the Scottish top flight becomes a feeder league for the new set up, if we get relegated we’re screwed ourselves. David Conn wrote a great book a while back (‘The Beautiful Game?’) where he describes the setting up of the Premier League in England in 1992. Obviously the Big Five at the time were the driving force behind it for obvious reasons but Conn comments that the smaller clubs who were equally desperate to break away and grab the cash (likes of Wimbledon and Norwich City) never once seemed to consider the prospect that they might be relegated and the financial devastation that that may cause.

I don’t know. Our Scottish cup winners got a crowd of 13k when they played brondby in the Europa league. We got 16k against Molde two years later with one of our most exciting teams in recent years. Why do people think Easter Road will be bursting at the seams for these teams in a different league? If the whole argument is based on the belief that Hibs will be awash with cash and therefore have top quality on the pitch then that’s a massive gamble to take. What if the expected finances don’t materialise. Or if the league goes belly up after a year or two.

we would risk alienating and losing Hibs fans. And that’s no problem for the man uniteds of this world where any fan will just be replaced. Every Hibs fan lost is a loss for the club.

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The answer is they won't be. None of those teams are big enough names as you have pointed out with the attendance figures when we played them recently in Europe.

The only teams we would get full houses against would be the 3 big Dutch sides and as they don't appear to be involved now it's a non starter.

We've played Malmö, Molde and Brondby in recent years and none have been close to a sell out.

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Originally Posted by Pagan Hibernia

your third paragraph sums up most of my concerns. We would be shafting Scottish football. That won’t matter to some people but it matters to me. And you’re right, assuming the Scottish top flight becomes a feeder league for the new set up, if we get relegated we’re screwed ourselves. David Conn wrote a great book a while back (‘The Beautiful Game?’) where he describes the setting up of the Premier League in England in 1992. Obviously the Big Five at the time were the driving force behind it for obvious reasons but Conn comments that the smaller clubs who were equally desperate to break away and grab the cash (likes of Wimbledon and Norwich City) never once seemed to consider the prospect that they might be relegated and the financial devastation that that may cause.

I don’t know. Our Scottish cup winners got a crowd of 13k when they played brondby in the Europa league. We got 16k against Molde two years later with one of our most exciting teams in recent years. Why do people think Easter Road will be bursting at the seams for these teams in a different league? If the whole argument is based on the belief that Hibs will be awash with cash and therefore have top quality on the pitch then that’s a massive gamble to take. What if the expected finances don’t materialise. Or if the league goes belly up after a year or two.

we would risk alienating and losing Hibs fans. And that’s no problem for the man uniteds of this world where any fan will just be replaced. Every Hibs fan lost is a loss for the club.

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Sure there is an element of risk involved in this and yes it does leave the rest of the pro clubs in Scotland at risk. If this or something similar gets major financial backing then I’d assume these risks have been considered. Realistically how many other aspirational pro Cubs are there in Scotland? Maybe a 2nd tier league could accommodate another 4 or 5 of the next biggest- perhaps organised on a regional basis or as a full blown 2nd division.
if Hearts , Aberdeen, Celtic eventually and Rangers go for it, Hibs have to frankly or we are done. Reorganisation of some sort is highly likely to happen and it’s better we’re in the discussions, planning helping to shape and not closing our eyes and ears to it.

And when it all goes belly up presumably Hibs will be welcomed back into the Scottish set up? The same Scottish set up who will previously refused permission for Hibs players to take part in a rival league.

If the atlantic league was formed I think it could potentially do very well and percieved smaller teams/countries may have a growing home-interest if the quality of football was better, but, other leagues would do the same e.g. Spain, Portugal and France or an elite euro league and these would supercede anything the atlantic league produces.

Would prefer to see us merge into a UK league or Sco/Eng league with all Scottish teams joining the pyramid system in some form. Yes we would be unlikely to win anything but week in week out the quality would be undeniably better.

Hibs, Hearts and maybe Aberdeen are large enough teams to get into the English Premier League and at worst playing in the championship with the additional investment / TV money / fan revenue.

anything like this that doesn't involve ajax, psv and feyenoord is just going to be another league for the ugly sisters to piss all over.

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Originally Posted by hibeedonald

If the atlantic league was formed I think it could potentially do very well and percieved smaller teams/countries may have a growing home-interest if the quality of football was better, but, other leagues would do the same e.g. Spain, Portugal and France or an elite euro league and these would supercede anything the atlantic league produces.

Would prefer to see us merge into a UK league or Sco/Eng league with all Scottish teams joining the pyramid system in some form. Yes we would be unlikely to win anything but week in week out the quality would be undeniably better.

Hibs, Hearts and maybe Aberdeen are large enough teams to get into the English Premier League and at worst playing in the championship with the additional investment / TV money / fan revenue.

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Better quality football, but unlikely to ever win anything.......you can keep that one, not for me.

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Originally Posted by ancient hibee

And when it all goes belly up presumably Hibs will be welcomed back into the Scottish set up? The same Scottish set up who will previously refused permission for Hibs players to take part in a rival league.

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I don’t think Hibs will be on their own, they would be doing this with at least 4 others maybe more if there is a 2nd tier. There are so many assumptions on both sides of the argument that it’s impossible to say it will/won’t work. Will probably depend on your personal bias. I find it interesting that some of the counter arguments that this Celtic / Viking model won’t attract tv audiences because everyone watches EPL or ECL. I sure I’ve also read on this forum many posters who have or considered switching off coverage of the EPL and ECL. I’m an optimist and think the Scottish market has matured many years ago. We need a bigger market and platform to grow to our potential, which I think is to be a large big city club attracting 25-30k crowds regularly in a competitive league with higher quality players.

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Originally Posted by hibeedonald

If the atlantic league was formed I think it could potentially do very well and percieved smaller teams/countries may have a growing home-interest if the quality of football was better, but, other leagues would do the same e.g. Spain, Portugal and France or an elite euro league and these would supercede anything the atlantic league produces.

Would prefer to see us merge into a UK league or Sco/Eng league with all Scottish teams joining the pyramid system in some form. Yes we would be unlikely to win anything but week in week out the quality would be undeniably better.

Hibs, Hearts and maybe Aberdeen are large enough teams to get into the English Premier League and at worst playing in the championship with the additional investment / TV money / fan revenue.

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I’m not fussed either a UK league or an Atlantic league would suit me and Hibs I reckon .. Especially if the top EPL sides pop off with the old firm to franchised Euro leagues

I'm a fan of hibs and scottish football. I would have no interest in this, I'm a little dispointed that hibs would even entertain the idea to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Gatecrasher

I'm a fan of hibs and scottish football. I would have no interest in this, I'm a little dispointed that hibs would even entertain the idea to be honest.

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What should we do? Just let the others go and we just stay in what’s left of the Scottish league?


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

What should we do? Just let the others go and we just stay in what’s left of the Scottish league?


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You are talking as though this thing is definitely happening. It's not.

It's been talked about for around 20 years now.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

You are talking as though this thing is definitely happening. It's not.

It's been talked about for around 20 years now.

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It probably will happen in some form eventually. Hibs should be a part of it if/when it does happen.

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Originally Posted by chippy

I’m not fussed either a UK league or an Atlantic league would suit me and Hibs I reckon .. Especially if the top EPL sides pop off with the old firm to franchised Euro leagues

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That probably will happen within this decade in all reality with colt sides left behind to give them a token English/Scottish foothold.

Atlantic leagues and British leagues/Cups maybe regional etc will be floated and promoted as consolation to clubs left behind. Whether it happens or not is probably debatable. Hibs should keep an open mind and thoroughly scrutinise every option which I'm sure they will.

Presumably the Atlantic League supplements rather than replaces the Scottish Premiership? I don't think I'd like to see Hibs exclusively in an Atlantic League, but if we had that running at the same time as the Premiership I think it would be brilliant - extra revenue, club develops, variety of opponents, raises the profile of the club etc...

Would be a terrible decision to be on the outside looking in if it went ahead, far better to be in from the start and get established from the outset as a mainstay of the league.

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Originally Posted by matty_f

Presumably the Atlantic League supplements rather than replaces the Scottish Premiership? I don't think I'd like to see Hibs exclusively in an Atlantic League, but if we had that running at the same time as the Premiership I think it would be brilliant - extra revenue, club develops, variety of opponents, raises the profile of the club etc...

Would be a terrible decision to be on the outside looking in if it went ahead, far better to be in from the start and get established from the outset as a mainstay of the league.

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I don't see how that could happen unless Celtic and Rangers did not take take part in Uefa competitions.

There's no way they could play Scottish Premiership, Atlantic League, Europa or Champions League and Scottish Cup.

I take it everyone who is ok with this will be ok when the Dutch and Belgians come on board and Scotland only get 3 teams (Celtic, rangers, aberdeen) and we are left behind.

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Originally Posted by DH1875

I take it everyone who is ok with this will be ok when the Dutch and Belgians come on board and Scotland only get 3 teams (Celtic, rangers, aberdeen) and we are left behind.

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What should Hibs do? Pull out now to avoid disappointment later?


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Originally Posted by Since90+2

You are talking as though this thing is definitely happening. It's not.

It's been talked about for around 20 years now.

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20 years ago UEFA were dead against any cross border leagues. That is no longer the case.


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