Stubbsy to Blackburn?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

I understand that, but like us with Butcher, if they do any kind of due diligence, they will see a manager who talks a good game but has his team playing for two years in the Scottish Championship thats got worse in the 2nd year.

If they go down the its not what you know but who you know route, they deserve to fail.

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Many cup finals did we get to last season ?
Worse ? Think you have been watching too much bbc highlights .

GGTTH

To say Stubbs has achieved nothing is mental and reflects an expectation that is pretty far removed from reality.

How many clubs in the last ten years have reached both domestic cup finals in the same season?

How many of those did it whilst in the Championship?

Achievements are relative, unless you're completely binary in your views then most reasonable people would view two cup finals in a season as an achievement.

Stubbs has put some very notable results on the board - wins against Hearts, the Rangers, Aberdeen, St Johnstone, Ross County (last season), Dundee Utd... All games where we went in as underdogs on account of our league position.

I get the argument about not achieving promotion, we should have finished second this season and didn't. We still don't know if that matters. Stubbs could quite conceivably take us up, in which case nobody would reasonably consider the season a failure.

With the margins so fine, people looking from the outside at Stubbs as a prospective manager will justifiably see how close he is taking us, and recognise that that represents a relative achievement.

We are too quick to put the boot in, and too narrow minded when assessing achievement. I understand why, for a club like Hibs in this league it almost is just a case of promotion = success / no promotion = failure.

However that viewpoint doesn't take into consideration the whole picture. We've played 50+ games this season IIRC, largely due to the fact that we have had successful cup runs. I would imagine that takes its toll on even a relatively large squad, let alone one that was without key players like McGeouch, Fyvie, Hanlon and Fontaine for significant periods of the season.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by matty_f

To say Stubbs has achieved nothing is mental and reflects an expectation that is pretty far removed from reality.

How many clubs in the last ten years have reached both domestic cup finals in the same season?

How many of those did it whilst in the Championship?

Achievements are relative, unless you're completely binary in your views then most reasonable people would view two cup finals in a season as an achievement.

Stubbs has put some very notable results on the board - wins against Hearts, the Rangers, Aberdeen, St Johnstone, Ross County (last season), Dundee Utd... All games where we went in as underdogs on account of our league position.

I get the argument about not achieving promotion, we should have finished second this season and didn't. We still don't know if that matters. Stubbs could quite conceivably take us up, in which case nobody would reasonably consider the season a failure.

With the margins so fine, people looking from the outside at Stubbs as a prospective manager will justifiably see how close he is taking us, and recognise that that represents a relative achievement.

We are too quick to put the boot in, and too narrow minded when assessing achievement. I understand why, for a club like Hibs in this league it almost is just a case of promotion = success / no promotion = failure.

However that viewpoint doesn't take into consideration the whole picture. We've played 50+ games this season IIRC, largely due to the fact that we have had successful cup runs. I would imagine that takes its toll on even a relatively large squad, let alone one that was without key players like McGeouch, Fyvie, Hanlon and Fontaine for significant periods of the season.

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Without doubt one of the best things I have read on here, got it bang on the money!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by matty_f

To say Stubbs has achieved nothing is mental and reflects an expectation that is pretty far removed from reality.

How many clubs in the last ten years have reached both domestic cup finals in the same season?

How many of those did it whilst in the Championship?

Achievements are relative, unless you're completely binary in your views then most reasonable people would view two cup finals in a season as an achievement.

Stubbs has put some very notable results on the board - wins against Hearts, the Rangers, Aberdeen, St Johnstone, Ross County (last season), Dundee Utd... All games where we went in as underdogs on account of our league position.

I get the argument about not achieving promotion, we should have finished second this season and didn't. We still don't know if that matters. Stubbs could quite conceivably take us up, in which case nobody would reasonably consider the season a failure.

With the margins so fine, people looking from the outside at Stubbs as a prospective manager will justifiably see how close he is taking us, and recognise that that represents a relative achievement.

We are too quick to put the boot in, and too narrow minded when assessing achievement. I understand why, for a club like Hibs in this league it almost is just a case of promotion = success / no promotion = failure.

However that viewpoint doesn't take into consideration the whole picture. We've played 50+ games this season IIRC, largely due to the fact that we have had successful cup runs. I would imagine that takes its toll on even a relatively large squad, let alone one that was without key players like McGeouch, Fyvie, Hanlon and Fontaine for significant periods of the season.

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Very well said. How in the world did someone as sensible as you get to be an administrator? :wink:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by emerald green

Bolton the other day, Blackburn today, who will it be next week? :rolleyes:

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York City.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HH81

York City.

---

KLF
Its Grim Up North Lyrics
New! Tap highlighted lyrics to add Meanings, Special Memories, and Misheard Lyrics...

Play "Its Grim Up North"

It's Grim Up North
A bit of Klf anyone?

Bolton,
Barnsley,
Nelson,
Colne,
Burnley
Bradford,
Buxton,
Crewe,
Warrington,
Widnes,
Wigan,
Leeds,
Northwich,
Nantwich,
Knutsford,
Hull,
Sale,
Salford,
Southport,
Leigh,
Derby,
Kearsley
Keighley
Maghull,
Harrogate,
Huddersfield,
Oldham, Lancs,
Grimsby,
Glossop,
Hebden Bridge,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North.
Brighouse,
Bootle,
Featherstone,
Speke,
Runcorn,
Rotherham,
Rochdale,
Barrow,
Morecambe,
Macclesfield,
Lytham St. Annes
Clitheroe,
Cleethorpes,
The M62,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North.
Pendlebury,
Prestwich,
Preston,
York,
Skipton,
S****horpe,
Scarborough-on-Sea,
Chester,
Chorley,
Cheedle Hulme,
Ormskirk,
Accrington Stanley,
and Leigh,
Ossett,
Otley,
Ikley Moor,
Sheffield,
Manchester,
Castleford,
Skem,
Doncaster,
Dewsbury,
Hali-fax,
Bingley,
Bramall,
Are all in the North.
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North.
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North

: Klf - Its Grim Up North

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HH81

York City.

---

Are they punting McNamara?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VivaPalmeiras

KLF
Its Grim Up North Lyrics
New! Tap highlighted lyrics to add Meanings, Special Memories, and Misheard Lyrics...

Play "Its Grim Up North"

It's Grim Up North
A bit of Klf anyone?

Bolton,
Barnsley,
Nelson,
Colne,
Burnley
Bradford,
Buxton,
Crewe,
Warrington,
Widnes,
Wigan,
Leeds,
Northwich,
Nantwich,
Knutsford,
Hull,
Sale,
Salford,
Southport,
Leigh,
Derby,
Kearsley
Keighley
Maghull,
Harrogate,
Huddersfield,
Oldham, Lancs,
Grimsby,
Glossop,
Hebden Bridge,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North.
Brighouse,
Bootle,
Featherstone,
Speke,
Runcorn,
Rotherham,
Rochdale,
Barrow,
Morecambe,
Macclesfield,
Lytham St. Annes
Clitheroe,
Cleethorpes,
The M62,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North.
Pendlebury,
Prestwich,
Preston,
York,
Skipton,
S****horpe,
Scarborough-on-Sea,
Chester,
Chorley,
Cheedle Hulme,
Ormskirk,
Accrington Stanley,
and Leigh,
Ossett,
Otley,
Ikley Moor,
Sheffield,
Manchester,
Castleford,
Skem,
Doncaster,
Dewsbury,
Hali-fax,
Bingley,
Bramall,
Are all in the North.
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North.
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North,
It's Grim Up North

: Klf - Its Grim Up North

---

How grim is Leigh that it needs to be mentioned twice?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Green Man

How grim is Leigh that it needs to be mentioned twice?

---

Did someone mention Leigh? :hyper

In any case, I hope Leann has a succession plan in place. I don't want us being manager-less in the transfer window and not able to buy players. Or we'll end up at the back of the queue again like we did after Butcher.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Northernhibee

Did someone mention Leigh? :hyper

---

In the crowd at ER on Tuesday night again. He wants to come home. :greengrin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by matty_f

To say Stubbs has achieved nothing is mental and reflects an expectation that is pretty far removed from reality.

How many clubs in the last ten years have reached both domestic cup finals in the same season?

How many of those did it whilst in the Championship?

Achievements are relative, unless you're completely binary in your views then most reasonable people would view two cup finals in a season as an achievement.

Stubbs has put some very notable results on the board - wins against Hearts, the Rangers, Aberdeen, St Johnstone, Ross County (last season), Dundee Utd... All games where we went in as underdogs on account of our league position.

I get the argument about not achieving promotion, we should have finished second this season and didn't. We still don't know if that matters. Stubbs could quite conceivably take us up, in which case nobody would reasonably consider the season a failure.

With the margins so fine, people looking from the outside at Stubbs as a prospective manager will justifiably see how close he is taking us, and recognise that that represents a relative achievement.

We are too quick to put the boot in, and too narrow minded when assessing achievement. I understand why, for a club like Hibs in this league it almost is just a case of promotion = success / no promotion = failure.

However that viewpoint doesn't take into consideration the whole picture. We've played 50+ games this season IIRC, largely due to the fact that we have had successful cup runs. I would imagine that takes its toll on even a relatively large squad, let alone one that was without key players like McGeouch, Fyvie, Hanlon and Fontaine for significant periods of the season.

---

10/10 Matty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by matty_f

To say Stubbs has achieved nothing is mental and reflects an expectation that is pretty far removed from reality.

How many clubs in the last ten years have reached both domestic cup finals in the same season?

How many of those did it whilst in the Championship?

Achievements are relative, unless you're completely binary in your views then most reasonable people would view two cup finals in a season as an achievement.

Stubbs has put some very notable results on the board - wins against Hearts, the Rangers, Aberdeen, St Johnstone, Ross County (last season), Dundee Utd... All games where we went in as underdogs on account of our league position.

I get the argument about not achieving promotion, we should have finished second this season and didn't. We still don't know if that matters. Stubbs could quite conceivably take us up, in which case nobody would reasonably consider the season a failure.

With the margins so fine, people looking from the outside at Stubbs as a prospective manager will justifiably see how close he is taking us, and recognise that that represents a relative achievement.

We are too quick to put the boot in, and too narrow minded when assessing achievement. I understand why, for a club like Hibs in this league it almost is just a case of promotion = success / no promotion = failure.

However that viewpoint doesn't take into consideration the whole picture. We've played 50+ games this season IIRC, largely due to the fact that we have had successful cup runs. I would imagine that takes its toll on even a relatively large squad, let alone one that was without key players like McGeouch, Fyvie, Hanlon and Fontaine for significant periods of the season.

---

I agree with most of that however if the inconceivable happens and we lose SC and fail to get promoted surely that = failure? Two cup finals cant bee deemed as an achievement if we fail to win any of them.

I'm very much still forming an opinion on Stubbsy.

Rumours here that Martinez has just been punted at Everton today

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scorrie

Rumours here that Martinez has just been punted at Everton today

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That fantastic penalty taker De Boer is rumoured to be taking over.

His Hibs career is about to be condensed into 2/4 games.

4 wins (or even 3 and a draw/loss could do it) and his CV reads - Promotion to top tier, Scottish cup win (first in the clubs modern history, league cup final and scottish cup semi final).

2 defeats - Failure to get one of scotlands biggest clubs out of the 2nd tier in 2 attempts & 2 cup final defeats.

Somewhere in between (one out of the 2) will still be viewed as a success in the media and a lot of fans eyes

I have pretty much convinced myself that he will leave at the end of this month. Hopefully its as a legend, and he gets a job in the top end of the English Championship.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CallumLaidlaw

His Hibs career is about to be condensed into 2/4 games.

4 wins (or even 3 and a draw/loss could do it) and his CV reads - Promotion to top tier, Scottish cup win (first in the clubs modern history, league cup final and scottish cup semi final).

2 defeats - Failure to get one of scotlands biggest clubs out of the 2nd tier in 2 attempts & 2 cup final defeats.

Somewhere in between (one out of the 2) will still be viewed as a success in the media and a lot of fans eyes

I have pretty much convinced myself that he will leave at the end of this month. Hopefully its as a legend, and he gets a job in the top end of the English Championship.

---

Good summary.

I think he benefits from good pr, and lazy journos uncritically buying the 'we play good football' line which isnt really that true.

I did jump on the sack him bandwagon recently, but actually i now want him to stay (regrdless of end of season) - i think the disruption caused by him leaving would be greater than the team's current deficiences, and i also think he would be well placed to fix our problems.

Also, while i was very critical of him during the spring slump i di think he has recovered well and the team is playing well again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy

Good summary.

I think he benefits from good pr, and lazy journos uncritically buying the 'we play good football' line which isnt really that true.

I did jump on the sack him bandwagon recently, but actually i now want him to stay (regrdless of end of season) - i think the disruption caused by him leaving would be greater than the team's current deficiences, and i also think he would be well placed to fix our problems.

Also, while i was very critical of him during the spring slump i di think he has recovered well and the team is playing well again.

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Of course we play good football, some of the stuff is terrific and the best football at the club since Mowbray/Collins.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CallumLaidlaw

His Hibs career is about to be condensed into 2/4 games.

4 wins (or even 3 and a draw/loss could do it) and his CV reads - Promotion to top tier, Scottish cup win (first in the clubs modern history, league cup final and scottish cup semi final).

2 defeats - Failure to get one of scotlands biggest clubs out of the 2nd tier in 2 attempts & 2 cup final defeats.

Somewhere in between (one out of the 2) will still be viewed as a success in the media and a lot of fans eyes

I have pretty much convinced myself that he will leave at the end of this month. Hopefully its as a legend, and he gets a job in the top end of the English Championship.

---

IMO the whole season could rest on tomorrow night's result. If we lose, Stubbs' future at Hibs will be under serious question, as will many of our players'. That's no way to go into Scottish Cup Final week. Also, expect any clubs interested in Stubbs and our players to start making their moves. All plays right into the hands of the Huns and the Sevco loving media ! It will be horrendous.

1986 - Yams were two games from an incredible season, but blew it. League defeat crushed their Cup hopes.
2016 - Hibs are in a pretty similar position.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pacoluna

I agree with most of that however if the inconceivable happens and we lose SC and fail to get promoted surely that = failure? Two cup finals cant bee deemed as an achievement if we fail to win any of them.

I'm very much still forming an opinion on Stubbsy.

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If only winning finals is seen as an achievement then very few managers will ever achieve anything.

Taking Hibs to two finals at the same time as chasing promotion is an achievement, just less of an achievement than winning them would be.

It's like the London marathon. There's only one winner but completing it will be an achievement to hundreds of people. It's relative.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by matty_f

If only winning finals is seen as an achievement then very few managers will ever achieve anything.

Taking Hibs to two finals at the same time as chasing promotion is an achievement, just less of an achievement than winning them would be.

It's like the London marathon. There's only one winner but completing it will be an achievement to hundreds of people. It's relative.

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All very nice but after two years we are just about better than Falkirk in the league and struggling to prove it.

Not getting promoted this year would be a huge failure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by matty_f

If only winning finals is seen as an achievement then very few managers will ever achieve anything.

Taking Hibs to two finals at the same time as chasing promotion is an achievement, just less of an achievement than winning them would be.

It's like the London marathon. There's only one winner but completing it will be an achievement to hundreds of people. It's relative.

---

Two cup finals and acvhieving promotion will be a success. Don't go up and lose two finals and he's failed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimBHibees

Of course we play good football, some of the stuff is terrific and the best football at the club since Mowbray/Collins.

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I agree.

Last season with Scott Allan in the side we played some superb stuff.

It has probably been a bit laboured at times this season for some people but we're capable of playing some great stuff when we want to. First 20 minutes or so on Tuesday was really good, against a tough side to break down.

If Stubbs stays then I reckon we're a tweak away from being a side that plays fantastic stuff. A tactical nudge and an injection of pace is all it would take.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andy74

All very nice but after two years we are just about better than Falkirk in the league and struggling to prove it.

Not getting promoted this year would be a huge failure.

---

We finished behind Falkirk. Yes, on goal difference but we can't say we're better than Falkirk at all in the league. Tomorrow really is going to be tough and home advantage probably gives them the edge.

Stubbs wins either promotion or the cup and he's done well. Neither and he can't be here next season and his time will have to go down as a failure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andy74

All very nice but after two years we are just about better than Falkirk in the league and struggling to prove it.

Not getting promoted this year would be a huge failure.

---

In your/our opinion. My point was that people looking at things from outside would see a number of achievements.

I think Hibs aim for semi-final stages of cup competitions (IIRC), therefore two finals would be seen as an achievement.

We also aim for promotion, so not being promoted can be seen as failure.

Achievements aren't necessarily as binary as if you win you've achieved something, if you don't then you haven't.

Getting to the final is an achievment now? Well yeah I guess it is if you set your standards pretty low.

East Stirling would probably think getting to the quarter finals is an achievment, for Hibs that should be the bare minimum.

We need to start having a winning mentality. If folk running the club think getting to the final is good enough then what's the point?

You think Man Utd fans will be ok if Palace beat them in the final?? No chance.

We need to be more demanding. Success is winning things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Northernhibee

Did someone mention Leigh? :hyper

---

:greengrin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

Getting to the final is an achievment now? Well yeah I guess it is if you set your standards pretty low.

East Stirling would probably think getting to the quarter finals is an achievment, for Hibs that should be the bare minimum.

We need to start having a winning mentality. If folk running the club think getting to the final is good enough then what's the point?

You think Man Utd fans will be ok if Palace beat them in the final?? No chance.

We need to be more demanding. Success is winning things.

---

It's not about setting standards low, it's about being realistic.

Do you think Palace don't think that getting to the final is an achievement? They're one of only two clubs to do it in that competition this season. They've gone further than the champions, and further than many clubs with budgets that dwarf theirs.

To get to the Scottish Cup final, Hibs had to beat top flight opponents. Was that not an achievement?

It's more of an achievement to win it. Of course it is. To dismiss getting to the final - the second this season - is ridiculous.

If you only see success as winning things then you've probably picked the wrong club to follow, and you're likely to find supporting Hibs very unfulfilling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

Getting to the final is an achievment now? Well yeah I guess it is if you set your standards pretty low.

East Stirling would probably think getting to the quarter finals is an achievment, for Hibs that should be the bare minimum.

We need to start having a winning mentality. If folk running the club think getting to the final is good enough then what's the point?

You think Man Utd fans will be ok if Palace beat them in the final?? No chance.

We need to be more demanding. Success is winning things.

---

Yes, it always has been, that is why we ****ing celebrate at semi finals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Green Man

How grim is Leigh that it needs to be mentioned twice?

---

Never, ever underestimate Leigh's ability to reproduce.